Temple of Doom ruined by dodgy effects

[fedoraboy]

I had an Indy Marathan this weekend and it occurred to me for the first time why I've always rated Doom as my least favourite, the effects are really ropey!

This isn't a direct criticism of the film, but it rely's too much on blue screen, dummies and miniatures that are obviously fake, most notably...

1. As the lifeboat is falling from the plane it is so obviously dummies and not real people in the boat, and the close up shots of Indy, Willie and Shorty in the boat sliding down the mountain are clearly blue screened.

2. The shot of Indy stood looking ovcer the village at night is clearly blue screen

3. The mine car chase combines obviously fake miniatures with bad blue screen

4. The water chasing Indy down the tunnel is clearly a miniature and Indy, Willie and Shorty are clearly superimposed on afterwards.

5. As Indy hangs over the cliff after escaping from the water in the tunnel, it is clearly a blue screen shot again...

I think there are more but these really stood out.

I know it is an old film and most effects shots don't stand up that well with time but there is nothing in Raiders or Last Crusade that seems as fake and is as distracting from the story as these.

Otherwise I can't really fault Doom, it's a very ambitious film that dared to be as different from Raiders as it could be while staying (relatively) true to the character - but I just can't get past the dodgy old special effects...

[HovitosKing]

This film continues to be my favorite of the three, just barely beating out Raiders for the top spot. Perhaps because it has so many elements that lend itself to being a "cult" (no pun intended) classic...and even though I hate Short Round, I truly love this installment more than the others. I realize I'm in the minority...but I just can't understand why so many are hard on this one. Special effects aside, I thought the plot was really cool, the action was fantastic, the characters were interesting, the artifact and locales were fun, and the Thuggee cult was an awesome idea for the villains. My question is, if LC had never been made and the parallels between it and Raiders did not exist (Marcus Brody and the university, Sallah, Christian relic/lore, etc.)...would more people accept ToD as a solid part of the franchise and not an outcast half-brother?

[Doc Savage]

In regards to the FX, I think that adds to the "old serial" feel of the movies...but that could just be an attempt at vicarious compensation on my part.

To address HK's question, personally, the only preferences I have putting LC and RotLA over ToD is taste. LC is hilarious (and probably my favorite) and RotLA is gritty. ToD seems to be an attempt to blend the two, and leaves me kinda flat. Still a favorite movie, though...I mean, c'mon, it's Indy!

[TennesseBuck]

LAST CRUSADE does have that distracting shot of the zeppelin as Indy and his father approach it. The zeppelin looks clearly drawn in, so to speak, same with the Milennium Falcon in RETURN OF THE JEDI in one scene. But I have no problems with that - the spirit of these movies is enough to forgive such minute faults.

Indiana Jones and the Web of Gold
http://www.geocities.com/faustus_08520/webofgold.html

[Doc Savage]

LAST CRUSADE does have that distracting shot of the zeppelin as Indy and his father approach it. That was just the thought I was thinking of!

[DarthLowBudget]

Was their blue screen in the mine cart chase? From what I understand it was purley minatures intercut with footage of the actors on a mine shaft set.

And as long as we're on Temple of Doom, one has to admit it had a pretty awesome slogan:

"If Adventure has a name, it must be Indiana Jones"

[ClintonHammond]

The whole Dog-fight sequence in Last Crusade looks awful!

As does the CGI of Walter aging after choosing poorly....

Nothing beats the Lions Head bridge effect!!!

[Finn]

Have to question this whole topic for change. Griping like this would be completely valid had the movie been made during the last five years... but it's more than 20 years old. Actually, the effects were probably quite good for its day.

[ClintonHammond]

Actually, the dog-fight sequence in Last Crusade has ALWAYS looked cruddy

[darthsidious42]

I had an Indy Marathan this weekend and it occurred to me for the first time why I've always rated Doom as my least favourite, the effects are really ropey!

This isn't a direct criticism of the film, but it rely's too much on blue screen, dummies and miniatures that are obviously fake, most notably...

1. As the lifeboat is falling from the plane it is so obviously dummies and not real people in the boat, and the close up shots of Indy, Willie and Shorty in the boat sliding down the mountain are clearly blue screened.

2. The shot of Indy stood looking ovcer the village at night is clearly blue screen

3. The mine car chase combines obviously fake miniatures with bad blue screen

4. The water chasing Indy down the tunnel is clearly a miniature and Indy, Willie and Shorty are clearly superimposed on afterwards.

5. As Indy hangs over the cliff after escaping from the water in the tunnel, it is clearly a blue screen shot again...

I think there are more but these really stood out.

I know it is an old film and most effects shots don't stand up that well with time but there is nothing in Raiders or Last Crusade that seems as fake and is as distracting from the story as these.

Otherwise I can't really fault Doom, it's a very ambitious film that dared to be as different from Raiders as it could be while staying (relatively) true to the character - but I just can't get past the dodgy old special effects...


Temple of Doom won the Oscar for best visual effects. Some of them are a little dated now over 20 years later but overall I think it holds up pretty well, especially considering how old this movie is now. There's a few bad shots in Raiders and Last Crusade as well but come on, look at how old these movies are.

[René Belloq]

The matte paintings in Temple of Doom are outstanding and fooled me. For example the exterior shots of Pankot Palace were painted and I never knew. I think the special effects in Temple are as good as Return of the Jedi's. I also prefer the use of models to recent CGI characters like General Grievous and Jar Jar Binks.

[fedoraboy]

Actually, the dog-fight sequence in Last Crusade has ALWAYS looked cruddy

I had forgotten about that one, you're definately right that is really poor

I'm not saying that the effects maek the movie a bad movie just that most of the set pieces required some sort of effects which I find a bit distracting.

Comparing the three 'big' action sections from the three films, the truck chase in raiders is phenomenal with, as far as I can see, no model or effect work, just good old fashioned stunts, the same with the tank chase in Last Crusade. The comparable sequence in Doom, the mine car chase, while still a great action sequence has it's impact lessened, for me, by the fact that the majority of the sequence uses either models or blue screen, and you can tell for the most part.

It's still a great action scene and a great movie, but it just looks a little bit more 'fake' than the other two - just my opinion...

[ClintonHammond]

The problem with BAD effects is that they pull the viewer OUT of the movie experience.... You're sitting there, getting into a movie, munching your popcorn and having a great time when all of a sudden a LOUSY effect crosses the screen and your first thought it "Man that looked like crap".

Now you're not IN the movie experience anymore... You're outside if it looking in... It won't ruin the whole movie for you (Unless they keep coming one after the other)

Good FX are FX that you don't notice.

[Katarn07]

All the Indy movies had bad effects. They're from the '80s. They were great in their day and I really feel they have stood the test of time as the original SW movies have. Just think how bad it could have been had they chosen claymation of something (remember the dragon/troll thing in Willow?).

Also, I think miniatures are the way to go, not CGI. Two films come to mind when I hear "good" CGI. Jurassic Park and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. "Good" CGI should be done in a way that you actually think that that the things you are seeing on the screen are real. I remember thinking that the dinos of JP were all robots. Keep in mind I was in Kindergarten when that movie came out and had no idea what CGI was. But I had that idea for longer than I should have. I to this day still can't tell all of which scenes use robots and which use CGI. With LotR, Jackson utilizes miniatures and other non-CGI elements much more than Lucas and many other Hollywood action directors do now a days. It's just that his movies came out nearly 20 years later that they were done in a way that looked better than Spielberg's films.

And saying a movie's bad effects make it bad is rather stupid to say. I can think of a ton of movies I love with bad effects. That's like someone saying Wizard of Oz sucks because of its special effects.

[oki9Sedo]

How did Temple of Doom have worse effects than Raiders or Last Crusade

[René Belloq]

How did Temple of Doom have worse effects than Raiders or Last Crusade

I agree, I think Last Crusade had the worst special effects. Not that it matters much because the story is more important.

[ClintonHammond]

The story was worst too....

[René Belloq]

The story was worst too....

Now I think that's being a little harsh. :(

[ClintonHammond]

You'll get over it, I'm sure....

The story is one of the things that helps Last Crusade be the worst Indy movie there is...

[René Belloq]

The story is one of the things that helps Last Crusade be the worst Indy movie there is...

Until Indy 4 is released :hat:

[ClintonHammond]

Time will tell....

[Matinee Idyll]

I wonder though why Raiders had infinitely better effects than the next two...

The nazi jeep going off the cliff looked fantastic, so too did all the ghosts at the end. They blended almost seemlessly with the real footage.

[René Belloq]

The nazi jeep going off the cliff looked fantastic.

Really, that was the worst special effect. It had matte painting written all over it.

[Matinee Idyll]

It looked a damn sight better than the... whatever it was Mola Ram falling down the cliff.

That ToD shot woulda worked alot better if it resembled the RotLA shot.

[JK_Antwon]

I personally loved TOD the best, and I do recall always thinking the plane fight was bad... maybe thats why I didn't like LC that much:confused:

[garzo]

My question is, if LC had never been made and the parallels between it and Raiders did not exist (Marcus Brody and the university, Sallah, Christian relic/lore, etc.)...would more people accept ToD as a solid part of the franchise and not an outcast half-brother?

I loved TOD and actually saw LC as a lost opportunity because they could have done something equally different instead of doing such a close parallel of Raiders. TOD was exotic, different, original, but, like Raiders, an homage to the classic adventure films from past decades. It reminded me of 'She,' a great movie about adventurers who find the fountain of youth. LC, while a fun movie, was a bit of a copout simply because it relied too heavily on the Raiders formula (Nazis in the Mideast dessert, Salah, biblical artifact) with the addition of the father figure.
They could have had any number of adventuresome tales that took Indy to Africa, Asia, Central America, Mexico, Antarctica, Iceland, etc. . . There was no limit what you could do with this character.

Hopefully Indy 4 will explore greater boundaries.

[Niteshade007]

I just watched Last Crusade again the other night, and I don't think the special effects were any better or worse than Temple of Doom's or Raiders'. To me, the two parts that stand out as being horrible fake are the rhino and the snake in the train chase, especially the snake, and one other one scene that now for the life of me I cannot remember. But again, it was the best they had at the time. Personally, I think the ghosts look rather bad at the end of Raiders, but I'm not holding it as a reason to not like the film.

[Gear]

I had an Indy Marathan this weekend and it occurred to me for the first time why I've always rated Doom as my least favourite, the effects are really ropey!

This isn't a direct criticism of the film, but it rely's too much on blue screen, dummies and miniatures that are obviously fake, most notably...

1. As the lifeboat is falling from the plane it is so obviously dummies and not real people in the boat, and the close up shots of Indy, Willie and Shorty in the boat sliding down the mountain are clearly blue screened.

2. The shot of Indy stood looking ovcer the village at night is clearly blue screen

3. The mine car chase combines obviously fake miniatures with bad blue screen

4. The water chasing Indy down the tunnel is clearly a miniature and Indy, Willie and Shorty are clearly superimposed on afterwards.

5. As Indy hangs over the cliff after escaping from the water in the tunnel, it is clearly a blue screen shot again...

Fadoraboy,
Temple of Doom came out in 1984, they didn't have great special effects. I do agree that some of the effects (like when the plane crashes into the mountain and it explodes for about 2 seconds and then the fire ball disapears leaving no dabre) was kind of... not great but don't be too hard on it.
I don't think the effects "ruined" the film. If anything Short Round weighed the movie down. ToD would come in, in my opinion, last place in my favorite Indy M- list BUT I still REALLY like it. It's an awsome movie, it's just not the best.

[oki9Sedo]

I think Last Crusade was definitely similar to Raiders, but it was different in enough ways to make it distinct.

[arkfinder]

For me it gives the film an old time feel to it. I have no problem with it. Look at "Raiders" again and when their faces melt they look fake. So what? It still works and adds to the charm of the film.

[Gear]

For me it gives the film an old time feel to it. I have no problem with it. Look at "Raiders" again and when their faces melt they look fake. So what? It still works and adds to the charm of the film.

Thats true, the Indiana Jones movies have a B-movie feel to them, it just... well, adds to the charm of the film.

[arkfinder]

For any of you that have seen the old Flash Gordon shows this is sort of the feel you get with Indy. I think it's a little wink in that direction from Lucas. He has more than once said that show was a major influance on him.

[oki9Sedo]

For any of you that have seen the old Flash Gordon shows this is sort of the feel you get with Indy. I think it's a little wink in that direction from Lucas. He has more than once said that show was a major influance on him.

Yes, Indiana Jones and Star Wars were inspired by the old serials and were aiming for that kind of feel, but having dodgy effects to make reference to those serials was never the intention. Lucas and co. wanted everything in those films to be like those old serials except the effects, which he wanted to be top notch. The CGI in Episode III was some of the best I've ever seen.