View Full Version : Leap of Faith
Dr.Sartorius
03-06-2007, 10:49 PM
When Indy performed the Leap of Faith in Last Crusade did he have faith in god or faith he wouldn't fall? I don't think Indy believed in god so I'm guessing its faith in not falling. :eek:
Skipper
03-06-2007, 11:00 PM
After the events of Raiders of the Lost Ark, how could Indy possibly not believe in God? I agree that he didn't seem very religious, but I think he was able to summon some faith in God for that one moment.
monkey
03-07-2007, 12:21 AM
I think at that moment that Indiana Jones had FAITH in himself.
Vlad Dracula
03-07-2007, 12:38 AM
Might also been a I've got no choice and nothing to lose type of momments.
Baron Brunwald
03-07-2007, 01:34 AM
When Indy performed the Leap of Faith in Last Crusade did he have faith in god or faith he wouldn't fall? I don't think Indy believed in god so I'm guessing its faith in not falling. :eek:
Both, I think.
fedoraboy
03-07-2007, 05:31 AM
Might also been a I've got no choice and nothing to lose type of momments.
I think so. Indy doesn't come across particularly religious, despite his experience in Raiders, but he HAS to save his father and taking the 'leap' is the only option open to him.
What always got me about that scene is what Indy EXPECTED to happen, why didn't he at least attempt to jump or 'leap' the chasm, rather than stepping out into nothingness? I know the step into the abyss is symbolic of Indy's belief in his father, himself, whatever but still...
The Adventurer
03-07-2007, 07:01 AM
I believe that Indy have faith in God when he did that step. Why???...well, it's simple, because his father was shoot and death was taking him slowly. What did Indy search for? Holly Grail! But in this moment Indy did this only for one purpose: to rescue his father from certain death. If Indy wouldn't believe in "the leap of faith" in the first place, how could he believe in the life propreties of the Holly Grail?!?. If he didn't believe in God, why then did the trial instead to find other way to rescue his father and take him to some surgeon where maybe...maybe have a little chance to save him after a long road ahead and little provisions or medicine... If only ration and not faith lead Indy in the atempt, then Indy never do such a stupid thing and do a step to certain death in the abyss.
Maybe Indy is not a religious man, but for sure believe in supranatural...maybe don't believe in a specific religion, but for sure have great faith in "God"...in his million form of supranatural power manifestations. And he saw some great of that in his adventures...the Ark, the power of Sankara Stones, Holly Grail...
Pale Horse
03-07-2007, 09:11 AM
He believed in Fortune and Glory. :p
The grail would give him both.
He doesn't believe in God, he is an expert in the occult. Thusly, God is not an omnipotent spirit willing to commit a life to, but an opposite force of Evil. The bridge to the grail represents that bridge of balance between the evil of materialism and the good of chivalry. Indy had to believe he could redeem himself and his father from evil to good.
He doesn't believe in God, he is an expert in the occult. That's a nice point. In the world of Indiana Jones, supernatural is certainly present. But it is different from omnipotence, and that presence can be left to individual viewer's interpretation.
chicago103
03-09-2007, 05:22 PM
I think after his experience with the Ark in Raider's he would have to believe in God or at least the supernatural (or maybe from Temple of Doom which took place earlier). However at the begining of Raider's he said "I dont believe in hocus pocus", puzzling given it was after TOD. Perhaps in TOD he saw wierd stuff but wasnt completly convinced there wasnt some natural explanation. After Raider's he probably accepted the supernatural, it was a Judeo/Christian artifact and yet the Shankara stones were not, so its possible he still didnt think a particular religion was true but rather there is a supernatural and multiple religions appear to be true to some degree.
So Indy accepted this but still wasnt a teribly religious guy in his day to day life. In the Last Crusade he still didnt quite understand the faith his father had but he came to it when his father's life was in danger and probably took the leap in faith in God because of all the experiences he had. Whether Indy became a commited Christian after Last Crusade I have wondered about but what gives me pause is again the Shankara Stones which is a clearly non-Christian artifact that had supernatural powers. Perhaps "God" in the Indy universe manifests himself in many religions and therefore more than one is true to some degree. Indy did drink from the Holy Grail, the cup of Christ so that implies that there was something to the Christian beleifs of him being divine. Perhaps then Jesus was one of God's manifestations in addition to that of Jehovah and the God of Hindu beliefs. I am sure thinking about all this would be confusing to Indy but I am sure it would lead him to a faith in something, perhaps he became more religious/spiritual after Last Crusade.
Crazy-Heart
03-09-2007, 05:34 PM
I think he had faith in God.
berelain19
05-04-2007, 02:31 PM
The Ark and the Cup are historical artifacts that were neither handled by (a) God...
I don't know too much about the Ark of the Covenant.
But the cup of christ had nothing to do with god...Jesus drank from it,and Joseph caught his blood in it. This is what the bible says,but we can't rely on it being a fact.
Remember;archeology is about fact,not truth. If it's truth you're looking for philosophy class is down the hall!;)
That leap of faith,was faith in his father.Everything Henry ever said and did suddenly came to him as his faith.....I guess....
ClintonHammond
05-04-2007, 03:19 PM
I would say at that point he was desperate enough to try anything... so he 'worked up' some faith (In ghawd, or daddy or in the legend or whatever) and stepped off.... Only to discover he'd been had. There was in fact, no faith involved at all... Just a well crafted piece of architecture. (No different from the other 'traps')
If he'd tossed a handful of sand or gravel out BEFORE he stepped out, the bridge would have been obvious... BUT that wasn't the story!
It's still one of the single best optical effects on film ever... Post or pre CGI!!
Johan
05-04-2007, 04:57 PM
But the cup of christ had nothing to do with god...Jesus drank from it,and Joseph caught his blood in it. This is what the bible says,but we can't rely on it being a fact.
The grail has nothing to do with the bible. The only times it is mentioned is at the last supper when it says "Then he took the cup..." and then "When you take this cup..." The rest is folklore from Midievil times. And it WAS handled by God because Jesus drank out of the thing. As for the Ark being "handled" by God. God actually was on the ark in a form of a cloud between the two cheriubum (on the Mercy Seat). So I would say it was handled by God.
As for the "faith" issue. I think he was emotionally charged because of the state of His father. I think what Indy called "faith" at that time was just his emotions controlling his actions.
ps
Yeah yeah for those (you know who you are) that don't believe in God or Christ...we all know your thoughts on what I just said so there is no need to start an argument that will change the course of this conversation.
ClintonHammond
05-04-2007, 05:23 PM
"The rest is folklore from Midievil times"
13th Century story telling actually... With no basis in history at all.
Johan
05-04-2007, 11:38 PM
Didn't it come from a poem called "Percival" or something? Was that 13th cen?
I'll have to check it out. If so I stand corrected.
ClintonHammond
05-05-2007, 10:47 AM
From Wiki....
"The Grail is first featured in Perceval, le Conte du Graal (The Story of the Grail) by Chrétien de Troyes. (dated sometime between 1180 and 1191) While dining in the magical abode of the Fisher King, Perceval witnesses a wondrous procession in which youths carry magnificent objects from one chamber to another, passing before him at each course of the meal. First comes a young man carrying a bleeding lance, then two boys carrying candelabras. Finally, a beautiful young girl emerges bearing an elaborately decorated graal, or "grail"."
It's an invention... a fiction.
Johan
05-05-2007, 11:20 AM
I was close...I've read about it a few years back...thanks for the refresher.
berelain19
05-05-2007, 01:18 PM
I just wanna say that As much as I want to believe in a miracle and as much I love the folklore and mythology,I stay with both feet on the ground and just because people say they believe in the bible,doesn't mean it all happened.
People have always blown up stories and this is probably the biggest of them all...
I'm sorry,I can't fool myself like that.But it stays interesting,though.:up:
Johan
05-05-2007, 02:34 PM
I just wanna say that As much as I want to believe in a miracle and as much I love the folklore and mythology,I stay with both feet on the ground and just because people say they believe in the bible,doesn't mean it all happened.
People have always blown up stories and this is probably the biggest of them all...
I'm sorry,I can't fool myself like that.But it stays interesting,though.:up:
Have you been paying attention to this conversation? We just said how the grail has nothing to do with the bible...it has no place.
Yeah, we have enough topics where people can review each other's contradicting views of the world already. No need to turn this one into one too.
This is about what Indy thought... not what you think.
torao
05-06-2007, 07:24 AM
Which reminds me: Shortly before Indy is taking the leap of faith. As he's making his last steps through the tunnel before facing the abyss I THINK you see how the wall to the right is slightly moving/shaking.
It just makes me giggle any time I see it. ;)
Johan
05-06-2007, 10:12 AM
Yeah, we have enough topics where people can review each other's contradicting views of the world already. No need to turn this one into one too.
This is about what Indy thought... not what you think.
That being said...some people need to get their history/facts strait. It has nothing to do with contradicting views...it has to do with people that have assumptions and just need some corrections.
berelain19
05-13-2007, 08:37 AM
You can't correct something if there are no facts...;)
Sorry,for the topic change! I AM new ofcourse,and I have not like so many reviewed and memorised all the threads and posts. I will do this right now,so I will not be making any more mistakes.
Please accept my humble apologies!
And be a bit nicer,it makes me feel unwelcome!(this is not a dutch forum,is it? Those are so uptight!)
Johan
05-13-2007, 10:02 AM
Perceval is a piece of history with the fact that it is an old piece of literature even if it is fiction. Just like some paintings are a piece of history.
ClintonHammond
05-13-2007, 11:07 AM
So, the grail MYTH is historical... "The Grail" is not... is that what you're trying to say?
Johan
05-13-2007, 10:49 PM
yes...thanks for making what i said coherent
Alright. In any event, Indy, at that point, takes a "leap of faith" in everything he's been suspicious and weary of, such as his father's obsession, and not the least of all: God.
In TOD, he is out for himself, Fortune and Glory and all that. He is a tomb raider in the truest sense of the term. In Raiders, despite his assurance to Marcus Brody, he has gained a certain sense that these things can happen and do exist. By TLC, Indy has seen and done a lot and he is well aware that spiritual and supernatural events, objects, and entities do exist and that there is more to this world than meets the eye. More importantly, though, he sets out to save his father, and in doing so, his father saves him and, most importantly, Indiana's soul. I would imagine that after the film, Indy does believe in Christianity, although I doubt he makes it to Sunday mass as often as his father might like.
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