Allusions

[Indy1986]

What do you guys think about allusion in Indiana Jones 4 that refer to the other parts.One good example for such allusions is the one in Last Crusade that refers to Raiders it is in the catabombs in Venice : Elsa: " What is that?" ,Jones:"The ark" Elsa" are you sure?", Jones:"completely sure".
Personally I love such allusions that refer to the older parts of a serial.And I would love to see some in Indy4. Of course those allusions have to be not exaggerated and only noticable for real Fans who remember details....that's what it is all about that not eveybory gets it just real fans.
If I could create such an Allusion for Indy4 this would be my idea:

Jones is invited by an business man/starnger in a bar in China/Asia and is offered a drink. Since he don't really trust the man he hesitates before he drinks it.....maybe the other man could ask Jones "is something wrong with your drink?"....Jones: "Nah it is ok I just had to remember my last drink in China....it was kinda strong"
Of course everyone who would remember the scene in Club Obi Wan in Temple of Doom would get it.....some might say this allusion would be to obvious but it just got to my mind and I thought it was a great gag.

So would you guys like allusion in Indy4 that refer to the old parts or not? And if you do what kind of allusion would you like?:hat:

[StwongBwidge]

I think the opening sequence should be a flashback to 10 years before ROTLA - I.e. 1926. Focussing on the fall-out between Indy and Abner and Indy's dessertion of a young Marion.

During some part of the action the Headpiece of The Staff of Ra is seen in Abner's house - in a glass-fronted cabinet or something. Just in passing. only those who remember it was Abners possession and hence why he went looking for Marion in the first place at the start of ROTLA would know.

Anything less oblique and it'd be too corny I reckon.

[torao]

I was quite relieved to read David Koepp's rahter negative statement (http://www.filmstew.com/showArticle.aspx?ContentID=15358) on references to previous installments.
And still...he didn't erase the possibility of little homages but rather references to spoken words.
So, I hope that if there will be ONE (because it never has been any more of one reference in Temple or Crusade) reference, it will be as subtle as it could be, maybe not even involving much direct adressing of the reference through dialogue but just a glance or a gesture.

Basically, though, I don't feel a need for allusions.
I hope that by adressing Indy's age and psychic state his character's history, and thus all of what we know about him will be "referenced" in a much more dramatic and meaningful way. Similar thoughts (about a disillusioned indy etc.) have been better expressed in a much better and elaborate way in another thread (http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=10635) most recently, though.;)

[Echo22]

If Shia L. is indeed Indy's son, I could see a "Junior" joke in there.....or maybe a "Senior" joke.
"Don't call me "Senior!"

Kind of stupid - but I can still see it.

Any kind of reference to the other films should be something people most remember. Like the swordsman reference in Temple of Doom or the Ark reference in Last Crusade. The beginning of Raiders is filled with memorable scenes.

It would be fun to see him after the idol from the beginning of Raiders again.
That could be a cool ending actually. Have it end where it all began.

[Finn]

What is that?" ,Jones:"The ark" Elsa" are you sure?", Jones:"completely sure". That was actually "pretty sure", but otherwise fine.

On another notion, there hasn't been too many allusions in earlier Indiana Jones films, actually just two. In ToD, we had a retake of Raiders' famous gun gag (which tends to tick off some people as ToD is in fact taking place before Raiders) and in LC it was the one mentioned above.

So if the trend continues, we will have some kind of homage to the first Indiana Jones film, but no more. Of course, as the fourth installment will be something different compared to the original (Indiana Jones) trilogy, there's of course not telling if they'd added in more references.

I'd hate the film to become one big intertextuality show, though.

[Indy1986]

Of course the allusions shouldn't be to obvious
but i would love to see inside joks that only people get who know the old parts by heart...i think it would be great to have at least one great allusion in Indy 4

by the way I actually never noticed that the "no-gun"allusion in temple of doom is somehow wrong since the movie takes part before raiders.... thanks

[Katarn07]

Pirates 2 is a perfect example of "allusions" gone awry. They weren't so much allusions as they were the same jokes and gags from the the first movie. NOT FUNNY!

Little things like him reaching in for his hat or whip while the doors are coming down is all I need. The Ark thing is pushing it. I liked it since I saw all three as a kid, but if I saw that now, I might roll my eyes if it comes off too forced.

I too am relieved to here Koepp's comments on allusions.

[fedoraboy]

In ToD, we had a retake of Raiders' famous gun gag (which tends to tick off some people as ToD is in fact taking place before Raiders)

I've always seen this gag as being a 'second time lucky' for Jones, so it actually work's better it being shown in a prequel to Raiders (so in a way, Raiders is referencing Doom?!?!)

As for references in number 4, I too was relieved with Koepp's quotes that their will be no riffing on dialogue from the original three ('It's not the mileage, it's the years' is the obvious one I was half expecting to hear). I think a subtle nod to the previous films will be fine, but more than this I'm looking forward to the nostalgic familiarity of characters being given a new spin. If Connery is involved his dialogue and interactions with Ford will automatically take us back to LC, the same with Karen Allen and Raiders. If done right these sort of scenes have the potential to be both powerful, emotional and very entertaining, with lots of new characters, set pieces and locations thrown in...it has the potential to be very very special!

[Indy1986]

I wouldn't want any dialogue repeated form the other movies neither repeated jokes. sayings like "don't call me junior (if connery would be involved) would be rather disturbing.
what i would like ar real allusions that have nothing to do with old sayings but with annotations that refer to the other movies....the "ark example between else and Indy in last crusade is a great example of what i think would be appropriated.

[Johnny Nys]

They enter an ancient temple in the middle of a South American jungle. There's a huge, round boulder in the middle of the room, a skeleton's arms and legs sticking out from under it. Indy: "Poor boy wasn't fast enough."

[Zorg]

I'm betting for the "Don't call me senior!" joke. That would be SO Indy.

[replican't]

I'm betting for the "Don't call me senior!" joke. That would be SO Indy.

It'd also be the point when I get up and urinate on the screen

[Indy_Chic]

I'm betting for the "Don't call me senior!" joke. That would be SO Indy.

LOL...most amusing! That would be fun to watch!:D


It'd also be the point when I get up and urinate on the screen

:eek:

[Stoo]

I am hoping for, at least, one *allusion* to "Young Indy Chronicles".
That would float my boat...