Online Communication

[nezobiwan]

So... what?!?! You think maybe you can KNOW someone just from what they post on a message board?

I can't see how....

Can you know someone from what they write on a mens room wall? Can you know someone from what they graffiti onto the side of a building?

Maybe you have WAY more insight into the text that people write than I do, but I suspect it's more that you just accept your own projections, your own assumptions about people than I do....

See, I KNOW how capable I am (And many many others are) at being deceptive, especially in the txt only world of the internet... Given how difficult it is NOT to misinterpret something that someone has posted in the first place, when you toss that element in as well, it becomes all too likely that the person you THINK you're communicating with is in fact NOTHING at all like what you think they are....

Maybe if we're going to continue this discussion, which is now not about Harrison Fords age at all, but is instead about how people communicate online, maybe we aughta move this to the off-topic board....

I'll leave that to you.... IF you want to keep talking about it, let's do it there where it belongs.... If you want to drop it, I'm fine with that too.
I just don't see why most of your energy is wasted on negative and pointless arguments. I mean most of your criticisms are baseless and you rarely back anything up with anything besides "because it's (insert negative vague adjective)."

Sometimes I think you only respond so that you can have the last word.

[oki9Sedo]

I just don't see why most of your energy is wasted on negative and pointless arguments. I mean most of your criticisms are baseless and you rarely back anything up with anything besides "because it's (insert negative vague adjective)."

Sometimes I think you only respond so that you can have the last word.

I agree. Clint, you're always negative, you only ever bother to post when you have something negative to say. I don't know why you bother.

[ClintonHammond]

"most of your criticisms are baseless" "you're always negative"
So this isn't going to be an objective thread about the styles and methods employed in on-line communication at all, but rather a subjective attack on my opinions and their expression?

In that case, you only THINK my criticisms are baseless because they seem most often to trump your opinions...

The same goes for your 'impression of the 'negative arguments'... you only perceive them as negative because they shoot down your 'side'... and apparently, for some reason you feel the need to take it personally... as if it was some how an attack on you personally....

I can't help you on that in the least....

But go ahead... show me what you think has been baseless, or unsupported....

Who's "Clint"? Can't even get a persons name right, but you expect them to be "NICE" to you?!?!

[tocksic]

I think this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) could be a good reading for everyone here. :up:

[ClintonHammond]

So if trolling is all you have to offer, why post to this thread?

[nezobiwan]

"most of your criticisms are baseless" "you're always negative"
So this isn't going to be an objective thread about the styles and methods employed in on-line communication at all, but rather a subjective attack on my opinions and their expression?

In that case, you only THINK my criticisms are baseless because they seem most often to trump your opinions...

The same goes for your 'impression of the 'negative arguments'... you only perceive them as negative because they shoot down your 'side'... and apparently, for some reason you feel the need to take it personally... as if it was some how an attack on you personally....

I can't help you on that in the least....

But go ahead... show me what you think has been baseless, or unsupported....

Who's "Clint"? Can't even get a persons name right, but you expect them to be "NICE" to you?!?!

What's the point of getting your name right, you're not a real person to us. :rolleyes:

And when you make a counterpoint comment to someone's "_____ is the greatest thing since sliced bread" you phrase it as though your word is the end all be all on every subject. If you respect our liking something, we will respect your disliking of that thing--AS LONG as you don't disguise your OPINION as an ARGUMENT.

"Argument" has connotations of negativity and combativeness, however I use the word meaning "a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: a process of reasoning; series of reasons."

This is not a productive or meaningful conversation:
Me: This is great. I especially love ___ because ___. Anyone else think so?
You: Everything you say is wrong and those who think like you are "unfortunate" and "immature."
Me: What do you care?
You: I don't.
Other: Hey yeah I remember _____. I liked ____ but I didn't like ____ because of ____.
You: Everything you say is wrong and those who think like you are "unfortunate" and "immature."
Other: Why do you care?
You: I don't.

[tocksic]

So if trolling is all you have to offer, why post to this thread?

Don't bother. ;) I'm out again of this thread. Just wanted to give an educative cornerstone to this discussion. Posting this link was neutral. It's up to the involved to figure out what to think and to say.

[herr gruber]

With regard to not knowing the person behind the posting, I feel that I, myself, pick up a general feeling about the person and the more I read their postings, I get a feel for what they are like. The general vibe a person gives off in their postings is, for me, a good indicator to their general personality. Maybe I'm psychic.

[nezobiwan]

With regard to not knowing the person behind the posting, I feel that I, myself, pick up a general feeling about the person and the more I read their postings, I get a feel for what they are like. The general vibe a person gives off in their postings is, for me, a good indicator to their general personality. Maybe I'm psychic.

There's definitely something to be said about body language and voice inflection. Online communication is calculated and slower than face-to-face interactions. People type things in online conversations that they would never say to a person face-to-face.

It's unique in that a person can practice and edit their response before posting it.

When you're talking, whatever comes out of your mouth you can't take back or edit. Maybe that's an adjustment for some people going from real conversations to virtual ones.

[ClintonHammond]

"you're not a real person to us"
But then you expect me to treat you like a real person? Why would I?

"you phrase it as though your word is the end all be all on every subject"
And you don't know better than that?!?! Tell me, please, that you -don't- somehow BELIEVE it?!?!? Jeeze... how many times have I said here that no opinion is worth squat, including my own??? (How that's any sort of disguise, I can't imagine) But still you insist on taking MY opinion personally, (Only when it differs from your own I might add... If we're in agreement over a topic, you have no such criticism of how I post....) and then some how trying to blame ME for YOUR emotional reaction??? All because I might have phrased it in such a way that made me sound like an arrogant d!ck?!?!?!

I may not know you, but I gotta HOPE (given the level of intelligence your other posts have exhibited) you're WAY smarter than that!!


"Maybe I'm psychic."
Maybe you are... If you can prove it, James Randi has a million bucks with your name on it! Might be worth the effort to try eh?? ,-)

*edit crosspost*
"Online communication is calculated and slower than face-to-face interactions"
There was a study done not too long ago (I'll try to dig it up) that said, in the txt only world of the internet, the ONE thing that people on the receiving end got wrong most often was so-called "Tone Of Voice". (And not only did they get it wrong, they most often got it exactly opposite wrong!) The study went on to suggest that it's people reading things online who need to put WAY more thought into what they're seeing... Who need to be quicker with the 'benefit of the doubt' and who need to 'grow thicker skins', because, no matter how careful a composer is, someone WILL miss the point, miss the intent of a given piece of communication.

"People type things in online conversations that they would never say to a person face-to-face."
I promise you and everyone here, I'll NEVER post anything that I wouldn't say right to your face.

[nezobiwan]

All because I might have phrased it in such a way that made me sound like an arrogant d!ck?!?!?!

I guess that's what it boils down to. You've hit the nail on the head.

Incorporating my previous response, where I said, "[online communication is] unique in that a person can practice and edit their response before posting it."

I guess I'm baffled as to why you choose to portray yourself that way. If you can be whoever you want to online, why would you choose to be that person? By your own admission, even!

In life I tend to speak much like everyone else I know. My speaking vocabulary is just as limited as the next college student's. But online I choose to represent myself as intelligent as I know am. I use proper grammar and punctuation in a virtual world where everyone else has thrown those principles out the window. (BTW everyone: if you don't use it, you lose it. That phrase is actually meaningful in this context. Learn your own language; you'll be thankful for it). I'm conducting myself in the best possible manner and putting forth my best possible face. And it's so easy when I don't have to worry about someone judging me before I speak on things like my age, race, or gender or even on trivial things like my choice in clothing. (Wearing my classic Star Wars New Hope poster tee, for those interested.)

There is a similarity between my real-life and online persona--I don't instigate emotional conflict purposely.... and if I do happen to do so unintentionally I learn from it and use it to be more sensitive in future situations.

[herr gruber]

"People type things in online conversations that they would never say to a person face-to-face."
I promise you and everyone here, I'll NEVER post anything that I wouldn't say right to your face.

You KNOW that isn't true, Clinton. Also, concerning the psychic comment, you seem unable to recognise humourous content.

[ClintonHammond]

"I guess I'm baffled as to why you choose to portray yourself that way."
Different strokes for different folks....

It'd be a pretty sad and pathetic world if we were all the same white-bread, middling, 'juiceless' carbon copies of each other wouldn't it?!?!?

"You KNOW that isn't true, Clinton."
It abso-FN-lootly is true! But I guess you'll never know that for sure will you.

Why would I lie about such an issue? What could I possibly stand to gain by being disingenuous?

"you seem unable to recognise humourous content"
Is it that.... or is it that you seem unable to post any? Or is it, most likely, some from A and some from B?

[nezobiwan]

You KNOW that isn't true, Clinton. Also, concerning the psychic comment, you seem unable to recognise humourous content.
HAHA! I'd say the same about you!

Maybe you are... If you can prove it, James Randi has a million bucks with your name on it! Might be worth the effort to try eh?? ,-)
Note the smiley!

Maybe I got the joke since I actually know who James Randi is....?

[ClintonHammond]

Thanks to google, everybody can know who James Randi is......

[herr gruber]

HAHA! I'd say the same about you!


Note the smiley!

Maybe I got the joke since I actually know who James Randi is....?

Actually, I do know who Randi is! The point I'm making is everything, including wit, is taken literally by Mr. Hammond.

[ClintonHammond]

Have you posted wit? I didn't see it, if you did.

Mind you, I've never claimed to be the most perceptive person in the world either....

Maybe "Herr Gruber", you're expecting too much from your material... Or from your audience.... or from both.....

Expectations are dangerous things to carry around.... It's way too easy to have them not met.

[nezobiwan]

Thanks to google, everybody can know who James Randi is......
Or youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc

[herr gruber]

I am my own audience. If the things I write please me, I'm pretty happy. If you find my comments or contributions difficult to grasp, then that's your problem. Oh please, no, I'm starting to sound like you.

[ClintonHammond]

And perhaps EXPECTATIONS are the root issue here....

I know that I expect that everyone is going to be as thick, as dumb, as wrong about things as often as I am.... so when I communicate here, I endeavour to do it in the most direct manner I can.

Let me ask this.... Has there EVER been any question about what I might have MEANT in a post? What my point might have been?

All too often I see post after post after post between people having to explain themselves over and over and over because someone has misunderstood something they said....

Anyone ever seem to misunderstand my intentions? (For positive or negative)


*edit Crosspost*
"If you find my comments or contributions difficult to grasp, then that's your problem."
It becomes my responsibility to accept ownership of my own ignorance, and if I care to alleviate that ignorance to seek further clarification from you.... Seems cumbersome... But I think that's the nature of online communication....

[herr gruber]

If your point had been made clearly enough in the first place, why do you come back again and again to argue it?:hat:

[nezobiwan]

And perhaps EXPECTATIONS are the root issue here....

I know that I expect that everyone is going to be as thick, as dumb, as wrong about things as often as I am.... so when I communicate here, I endeavour to do it in the most direct manner I can.

Let me ask this.... Has there EVER been any question about what I might have MEANT in a post? What my point might have been?

All too often I see post after post after post between people having to explain themselves over and over and over because someone has misunderstood something they said....

Anyone ever seem to misunderstand my intentions? (For positive or negative)


*edit Crosspost*
"If you find my comments or contributions difficult to grasp, then that's your problem."
It becomes my responsibility to accept ownership of my own ignorance, and if I care to alleviate that ignorance to seek further clarification from you.... Seems cumbersome... But I think that's the nature of online communication....
I just think that it's unnecessary to call someone ignorant or immature because they don't conduct themselves by your standards. I don't think it's a "positive" thing to insult someone.

[ClintonHammond]

"why do you come back again and again"
This place exists for exactly that level of exchange....

Or are you asserting that only people who agree are allowed to post?

"I don't think it's a "positive" thing to insult someone."
But you criticize ME for not conducting myself to your standard....

Where did I call anyone (But myself) ignorant?
Who did I ever call immature, who wasn't?

And where is it written that ALL exchanges have to be 'positive'?
(I addressed this elsewhere... Nowhere is it written that every poster has ANY sort of expectation of being insulated from all things they are ever going to find less than comforting)

[nezobiwan]

"why do you come back again and again"
This place exists for exactly that level of exchange....

Or are you asserting that only people who agree are allowed to post?

"I don't think it's a "positive" thing to insult someone."
But you criticize ME for not conducting myself to your standard....

Where did I call anyone (But myself) ignorant?
Who did I ever call immature, who wasn't?

You yourself said that you don't know these people. So who are you to label them as immature?

I think that the standards of this message board are the authority on whether insults, generalized or specific, are considered good conduct....

[herr gruber]

And again the thread wanders. This is not the let's all clash with Clinton Hammond thread, is it? Although I'm sure you would enjoy that?

[ClintonHammond]

"So who are you to label them as immature?"
I'm still waiting to see an example....

And well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and swims like a duck.... Who am I to say "Not Duck"?

Ya know "Herr Gruber", I was about to post something to the effect of thanking you and "nezobiwan" for your contributions in this thread so far... I've read our exchange up to this point as mature, calm, informative.... even enjoyable.

Your last post instead becomes a wonderful example of how different people can read the exact same thing and come away with very different impressions....

I'm not going to say that your impression is wrong.... nor am I going to say that mine is even more right....

I am going to say that I'm probably getting more positive out of this exchange than you are.... and it's probably because I've made the conscious CHOICE to treat this exchange as positive....

I've taken responsibility for MY impressions and reactions.

FK it... I'll still thank you both! :-P

Would that more people here at The Raven could treat discourse in such a manner, even from time to time.... Instead we endure this (http://raven.theraider.net/showpost.php?p=251378&postcount=154) but -I'm- the one that reflects poorly on The Raven......

What was that about it being wrong to tag some people as immature, "nezobiwan"?? Try explaining that one to me again would ya....

[herr gruber]

Obviously, the term 'One man's meat is another man's poison' carries some credence.

[ClintonHammond]

It sure does, "HG"! (If I may be so bold)

[herr gruber]

Who the **** do you think you're calling 'HG? !!! What gives you the right to shorten my name! To me, your just a poster on a message board. I don't even know you. You ass sucking little skite.


Just kidding.

[nezobiwan]

HAHA, herr gruber.:D

Shall we close it at that then? I don't deny your intelligence or contribution to the Raven, CH. I was really denying myself half of the entire forum's discussion by putting you on my ignore list that one time. Half of the board was blocked out by countless posts of "This person is on your ignore list." I just wish that conflict didn't have to arise and muck up the thread topics in people's responses to your posts.

Each person is responsible for his or her own post. I think if someone misinterprets someone else, it is both the responsibility of the misinterpreted and the responsibility of the misinterpreter to reconcile expeditiously or simply apologize and drop it OR take it to private message discussion. I haven't been on this board long, but there seems to be a debilitating trend of "misinterpreted comment" discussions interrupting many threads.

[ClintonHammond]

"Just kidding."
You might wanna take a look at the rules concerning posting language in the "General Forum Rules" section... Kidding or not, this place is supposed to be rated PG 13....

On topic.... at least I had the courtesy to ASK you if you mind me shortening your name... and if you DO mind it, I won't do it....

"I just wish that conflict didn't have to arise"
Well, my grandfather was fond of saying, "You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one piles up first"

Conflict is inevitable any time more than one person is involved.... The real question is how to RESOLVE those conflicts.... I think that this thread so far has mostly been an example of how people can discuss and maybe even resolve those conflicts in a mature manner....

"I think if someone misinterprets someone else"
You never did answer me.... Has there ever been a situation where my intent in a post was unclear??? LOL

[herr gruber]

"Just kidding."
You might wanna take a look at the rules concerning posting language in the "General Forum Rules" section... Kidding or not, this place is supposed to be rated PG 13....

On topic.... at least I had the courtesy to ASK you if you mind me shortening your name... and if you DO mind it, I won't do it....

"I just wish that conflict didn't have to arise"
Well, my grandfather was fond of saying, "You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one piles up first"

Conflict is inevitable any time more than one person is involved.... The real question is how to RESOLVE those conflicts.... I think that this thread so far has mostly been an example of how people can discuss and maybe even resolve those conflicts in a mature manner....

"I think if someone misinterprets someone else"
You never did answer me.... Has there ever been a situation where my intent in a post was unclear??? LOL


Clinton, you may call me HG, PG, Bee Gee, I'm easy.

[nezobiwan]

=
"I think if someone misinterprets someone else"
You never did answer me.... Has there ever been a situation where my intent in a post was unclear??? LOL

According to you it happens all of the time on this board.

Have a nice night/day/whatever guys. Finals week is approaching and I have a ton of work to do. Nos vemos (see ya). :hat:

[ClintonHammond]

"I'm easy."
Are you cheap? ,-)

"According to you it happens all of the time on this board."
When did I ever say that? What I've suggested is that people over-react... they take things personally, when the reality of the situation suggests they aught not.

I don't think I ever claimed to be misunderstood! LOL

"Finals week is approaching"
Give 'em hell!! Come back with passes, or don't come back at all!
(In the style of the old Roman parting... "Come back carrying your shield or on it!")

[herr gruber]

Very cheap. I can't keep it in. (my opinion)