Two Versions of the Idol

[OmegaSeamaster]

I always noticed that in Raiders, the idol as shown in close up while on its pedestal, is quite intricate in its detail. Most likely this is the mechanical one that was supposed to move its eyes to follow Indy.

However, once Indy takes it and makes his escape, it's replaced by a more simpler, one-piece molded prop which is essentially the form all the collectible idol reproductions are modeled after.

Anyone else think the face and overall look of the mechanical idol is much cooler? Too bad this version isn't available to collectors. To me it looks far more amazing, scary and cooler.

[The Golden Idol]

Can someone post pics showing the two different idols? This is interesting.

[Agent Spalko]

Yes, there are two of them. One has glass eyes, the other is solid pupils.

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7629/propidol3pz.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1045/762266938_85efcccfbb_o.jpg

[Kooshmeister]

I think the simpler one would be considered the "stunt" idol, if you will, the expendable one given to Ford to run recklessly with rather than the more detailed, glass-eyed one.

[|ZiR|]

. Most likely this is the mechanical one that was supposed to move its eyes to follow Indy..

What? First I've heard of that. So they couldn't get it to work?

[The Golden Idol]

That bottom one is freaky. So, its eyes moved during the movie? Is it visible on film or was it just an effect that's not used?

[Agent Spalko]

That bottom one is freaky. So, its eyes moved during the movie? Is it visible on film or was it just an effect that's not used?

The idea was that it was suppossed to follow Indy as he moved around but it didn't work. Still is intimidating though.

[ATMachine]

Less blurry pics from the new DVD:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b241/ATMachine/Raiders/raiders_alt_idol_1a.png http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b241/ATMachine/Raiders/raiders_alt_idol_2a.png
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b241/ATMachine/Raiders/raiders_alt_idol_3a.png http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b241/ATMachine/Raiders/raiders_alt_idol_4a.png

In fact it looks like the mechanical idol is rather more stripped-down of detail than the blank-eyed prop, as for instance this one's nipples are less prominent.

[Michael24]

I never noticed it was two different versions, but it doesn't surprise. Sometimes props like these have their own "stunt version" for the actors to use while running around and stuff, while the more detailed and expensive one is used for close-ups and such.

The eye effect would have been cool. I don't think it was supposed to suggest it was "alive" or something, but rather have an effect like one of those paintings where it looks like the eyes are watching you no matter what angle you look at it from. Kind of like those busts in Disneyland's Haunted Mansion that appear to be following you as you walk from left to right. :)

[Agent Spalko]

It was completely restored and recast after it's exhibit in Japan.

Perhaps I can clear some of this up...and allow all of you to further this debate.

The two idols in the archives ARE original. One has glass eyes, one doesn't. They are hollow fiberglass castings. The one with the glass eyes has a detachable back, with the seam running along the hairline and the back ridge. It has the bar inside as shown in the pics already posted, as well as the magnetic "latching" mechanism.

When I first started at the archives in 1988, the glass eye version (GE) was in similar condition to the one pictured in the Prop Store images. It was broken as well...as a matter of fact, had someone shown me those photos out of context, I would say they were taken in the late 80s of the GE Idol in the archives.

In 1993, Hata International launched an exhibit in Japan of many of the items in the archives. It wasn't limited to Star Wars; it included Indiana Jones, Willow, Tucker...and even Howard the Duck. As part of that exhibit, they paid for an extensive restoration effort for about 200 items. By that point in time, many things were quite neglected. The two idols were restored then.

For the restoration, both were stripped of the remaining gold plating (it looked like vacuum-metalizing to me); the broken bits were glued back together, and everything sanded smooth to make it look good...perhaps too good. It did look much too clean and not like the original once it came back from the VM, in my opinion.

The Lucasfilm Archive book that has been published was actually the exhibit catalog, written originally in Japanese. Since the two idols, C-3P0 and the Ark were out being VM'd at the time, we couldn't photograph them for the catalog. Hence, there is no photo of 3P0 in the book; a photo of the second damaged, non-restored Ark; and a photo of a casting of the Idol spray painted gold. This Idol was actually a present to Mr. Hata for organizing the exhibit.

Since I can confirm two versions of the idol exist, I think it still leaves the door open to debate as to whether or not the Hawaiian scenes has eyes or not. It was always my opinion that it didn't, and I don't think those screen grabs are conclusive evidence that there are glass eyes in there. The eyes are ill fitting in the one in the archives; there's tiny gaps between the eyes and the lids. I don't see that same fit in the Hawaii scene, nor is there much evidence of the seam line to get those eyes in there. There does appear to be a pupil, but that could've been painted on. Given my experience with 3P0 and the reflective issues the gold VM creates, it could be some odd reflection, but it wouldn't be consistent. My opinion is that they're gold eyes with painted pupils...but that's my opinion.

Let the debate continue...

--Don Bies

[QBComics]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1045/762266938_85efcccfbb_o.jpg

Wow, That's kinda creepy...

[QBComics]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1045/762266938_85efcccfbb_o.jpg

Wow, That's kinda creepy. If I looked to into its eyes I would turn back around and probably walk home. :o
EDIT: Sorry for the Double post! (Please delete if neccesary)

[OmegaSeamaster]

To me, the idol with the eyes looks far more sinister! Someone should make them for collectors.

Seems like the restoration work as shown above really made the idol look too new and too shiny.

It looks less like real gold and more like cheap gold plate.

[God'sRadio]

I never noticed she is giving birth before...

[The_Raiders]

Wow, the pics from the new DVD version are really creepy, I felt like it was watching me through the computer screen!! :eek: :dead:

[The Golden Idol]

I never noticed she is giving birth before...

Wow. Why do you think it's called the Golden Fertility Idol? :rolleyes:

[Jr_1981]

This thread makes me glad to be a longtime Indy fan :) Never did I know there were two different idols, yet watching the movie tonight I kept this thread in mind and saw that, yep, the eyes on the stationary idol are different, kudos :D

BTW, I'm glad the eyes didnt work, I think it would have been a tad cheesy (yes, even for Indy) if the eyes followed him around the room.

[God'sRadio]

Wow. Why do you think it's called the Golden Fertility Idol? :rolleyes:

Because fertility idols are usually male, representing, ahem, maleness? This is a Goddess, not an idol.

[OmegaSeamaster]

BTW, I'm glad the eyes didnt work, I think it would have been a tad cheesy (yes, even for Indy) if the eyes followed him around the room.

I agree, but having them on a collector's piece would sure be great. The ones that are so readily available with the pupil-less eyes just seem so shoddy to me.

[The Golden Idol]

Because fertility idols are usually male, representing, ahem, maleness? This is a Goddess, not an idol.

I think the fertility being represented by the idol is the ability for a woman's eggs to be fertilized and give birth, thus the idol is a figure of woman giving birth to a baby.

[Deckard]

There are 3 idols technically.

The first is the "Moving Eyes" idol which is what we see on the pedestal. Most likely gold leafed.

The 2nd is the one Belloq holds up to the Hovitos, it is gold vacuum metallized w/ pupils drawn or painted on the eyes.

Then the 3rd are the rubber stunt idols like for when its dropped or thrown to Satipo.

The one I got a hold of is supposed to be from the "Belloq" mold and is vacuum metallized by the same company.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj32/deckard86/0008-1.jpg

[patrickm2009]

hmm. very interesting.

[Kooshmeister]

I think the fertility being represented by the idol is the ability for a woman's eggs to be fertilized and give birth, thus the idol is a figure of woman giving birth to a baby.

Yeah, Golden Idol is right, females can be just as fertile as males. The Hovitos obviously just worshipped female fertility (the ability to give birth) rather than male fertility (the ability to sow seeds if you will). Perhaps they lived in a female dominated society.

Y'know, this brings up an interesting moral quandry. I believe there was a Marvel comics series that dealt with Indiana getting the Idol back and finally adding it to the university's collection (Belloq did indeed hawk it where Indy said he would). But does it actually belong there? Unlike Coronado, who is dead "and so are all his grandchildren," the Idol does actually have rightful owners, namely the Hovitos.

I mean, Indy returned the last Sankara Stone to the people of Mayapore because it was theirs and it brought life and happiness to their village. Should not the Hovitos, as aggressive as they are, be granted the same rights?

(And for those who might find it interesting that same comic introduced Toht's sister, Ilsa, who is just as bad as her brother.)