TOD POll :Outcast?

[ExpeditionJones]

I'm sorry if there are other threads like this. My search function doesn't work.

I have a friend who claims that TOD was severely outcast by fans. Now, I know that it may be the weakest (IMO), but I haven't seen many people who outcast it, or don't consider it part of the quadrilogy (which is what he's saying).

So, do you consider it part of the quadrilogy?

[The Man]

So, do you consider it part of the quadrilogy?

No, I consider it part of the trilogy...

[sandiegojones]

It's second best in my opinion! KOTCS and LC are tied for third. I think TOD has the best soundtrack (other than the main Raiders March from ROTLA) and is the funniest.

[Deckard]

First yes, this thread comes around like once a month when someone shows up and didnt like Temple for w.e reason.

Outcast? Hell no.

Look, They establish a very... in the desert, fighting nazis feel between Raiders and Last Crusade, and alot of people like Temple least of the 3 because it strays and is a prequel too. But outcast, no way.

It's actually quickly becoming my 2nd fav over Last Crusade.

Not everyone who does, but alot of people who love Crusade, I call them the casual fans, bcuz they tend to be in love with it because of Sean Connery and the humor.

I like Raiders most because its the original and very iconic.

But Temple is just as Iconic as Raiders. People think Indy, they think the boulder chasing him and natives, and they think mine carts and heart ripping and rope bridges.

Now with KotCS out, thats the bastard child. Its made me embrace Temple all that much more. But I never hated it and alot of peple here will agree, its a very solid, good Indy adventure. I mean who doesn't know and love Shortround.

[sandiegojones]

Now with KotCS out, thats the bastard child.
That's what people said about TOD. I think over time people will accept KOTCS like they have with TOD.

[Deckard]

That's what people said about TOD. I think over time people will accept KOTCS like they have with TOD.

Well I always liked Temple, but those who didnt, maybe when Skull came out it made the stunts in Temple look more possible/feasible and better by default.

If that means we need an even more over the top crazy Indy 5 to make Skull acceptable, I'll pass.

But like I said earlier since I've been able to edit out the nuke on DVD, Crystal Skull hasn't bothered me as much.

[Darth Vile]

I personally find TOD to be the weakest Indiana Jones movie, and also (in Sesame Street style), it's the one least like the other three.

That said, it's clearly still an Indiana Jones movie and has many great moments (if not as many as the other three)...

[Sankara]

TOD is a masterpiece. Sure, it's not as great as "Raiders" but it is still great. Yes, the "plane jump scene" is over the top... but there are so many great parts in this movie. And: Indiana Jones is Indiana Jones in this movie.

So, of course is "Temple" part of the Indy-Trilogy. In many ways this movie is more "Indy" than Crusade...

I'm very happy about the fact that "Skull" is the bastard child of the Indy-Movies now.

Now we got a fantastic Indy-Trilogy!!! And a bastard child... who cares!!!

[Darth Vile]

TOD is a masterpiece. Sure, it's not as great as "Raiders" but it is still great. Yes, the "plane jump scene" is over the top... but there are so many great parts in this movie. And: Indiana Jones is Indiana Jones in this movie.

So, of course is "Temple" part of the Indy-Trilogy. In many ways this movie is more "Indy" than Crusade...

I'm very happy about the fact that "Skull" is the bastard child of the Indy-Movies now.

Now we got a fantastic Indy-Trilogy!!! And a bastard child... who cares!!!

To believe that TOD is a "masterpiece" (in an empirical sense) demonstrates than your perception, critical analysis, and understanding of cinema is somewhat skewed my friend.

[indy34]

I don't particularly like TOD but it's still part of the trilogy to me:hat:

[Forbidden Eye]

It absolutely is an Indiana Jones movie.

Some of Indy's most iconic moments are in that movie. I can't imagine Indiana Jones without Club Obi-Won, the spike room(with the infamous scene where he just barely gets his hat), the mine cart rase or the rope bride. Not to mention it also expanded on the locations Indy has visited.

I hope if Indy 5 is made, they explore that region more, or a different region all-together, as the middle-east and south america have been done to death now.

[Benraianajones]

Yes I do. If you look at it, it is the same as the others anyway. Object of desire, searched for, gotten, race through the mines in carts, finale - with Mola Ram dying because of the object they desire.He grabs it, it burns, he falls. Indy saves the day.

I like your avatar, The_Man! There are quite a few corpse's for avatars at the moment, I feel left out.

[Sankara]

@Darth Vile
This my opinion, buddy!

[The Man]

I like your avatar, The_Man! There are quite a few corpse's for avatars at the moment, I feel left out.

Yeah, they're quite striking. You should wait for the Dovchenko ant-attack avatar. Should be dreamy...:up:

[Crusade>Raiders]

I love ToD now. Kingdom made me appericate just how good this movie is. It had odd pacing, blatant racism, an annoying female lead, and a few too many slapstick moments. But its also really awesome all the same, especially the last 30+ mins.

Weakest of the trilogy, but thats only because the other two are so damn good.

[deckard24]

Yeah there are definitely plenty of TOD threads, but who cares let's have one more! Besides, you've linked it to KOTCS so it's more relevant!

Is TOD an outcast...not a chance!! For me it is my second favorite film in the series behind Raiders! Is it as good as LC in overall quality, not really, but it still edges it out in my opinion because it feels fresher and not a rehash of Raiders!


1.Raiders of the Lost Ark



2.Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

3.Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
4.Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

[sandiegojones]

Now we got a fantastic Indy-Trilogy!!! And a bastard child... who cares!!!
You must, because you NEVER SHUT UP about it.

[James]

TOD was considered a disappointment back in the 80's, but it was never in danger of being excluded from the series. None of the films have been.

When LC was released, it was considered a huge improvement over TOD. However, by the late 90's, it had also come under fire for being too light and campy. Many fans hated the way Sallah and Marcus were depicted, and the fact that it was such a retread of ROTLA.

The end result is that it's now a toss-up as to which sequel people rank last. For example, many of the worst KOTCS reviews still regarded TOD or LC as being a lesser film.

Personally, I've always loved TOD. But then, I also fall into that demographic of fans that grew up with it. So it's interesting to note how public opinion of the series has changed over the decades. Today it's not that unusual to see someone ranking LC above ROTLA- something that was almost unheard of back in the early 90's.

[oki9Sedo]

I don't know how you could consider it not part of the series. Its like arguing if it exists or not.

[Deckard]

Yeah, they're quite striking. You should wait for the Dovchenko ant-attack avatar. Should be dreamy...:up:

And we need a firey/melting Spalko!

[deckard24]

TOD was considered a disappointment back in the 80's, but it was never in danger of being excluded from the series. None of the films have been.

When LC was released, it was considered a huge improvement over TOD. However, by the late 90's, it had also come under fire for being too light and campy. Many fans hated the way Sallah and Marcus were depicted, and the fact that it was such a retread of ROTLA.

The end result is that it's now a toss-up as to which sequel people rank last. For example, many of the worst KOTCS reviews still regarded TOD or LC as being a lesser film.

Personally, I've always loved TOD. But then, I also fall into that demographic of fans that grew up with it. So it's interesting to note how public opinion of the series has changed over the decades. Today it's not that unusual to see someone ranking LC above ROTLA- something that was almost unheard of back in the early 90's.
Good points!:hat:
It's true it's a toss up regarding which sequel is the best, and it's completely open to personal opinion as far as their quality goes. But where I think most fans, average moviegoers, and critics are concerned, Raiders is the best of the series by a long shot! Of course this is my opinion(LOL!), but I think most would agree with it! I am of course partial to the films I saw first, where the sequels are concerned! TOD will always be my # 2 basically out of nostalgia, and the same goes for LC at # 3.

[oki9Sedo]

Whatever anyone's opinion on Temple of Doom, you can't just dismiss it as not being part of the franchise. It exists, and therefore is.

[deckard24]

Whatever anyone's opinion on Temple of Doom, you can't just dismiss it as not being part of the franchise. It exists, and therefore is.
True! How exactly you pretend it doesn't exist is lost on me!

[Lance Quazar]

No, I consider it part of the trilogy...

Heh. Damn straight!

To believe that TOD is a "masterpiece" (in an empirical sense) demonstrates than your perception, critical analysis, and understanding of cinema is somewhat skewed my friend.

Just like Roger Ebert, I guess, who gave the film his highest rating....

:rolleyes:

[Forbidden Eye]

Heh. Damn straight!



Just like Roger Ebert, I guess, who gave the film his highest rating....

:rolleyes:

He also gave W. his highest rating.

Nuff said.

[Crusade>Raiders]

Ebert is a fantastic writer, but he gives everything high rankings >_>

[Lance Quazar]

Ebert is a fantastic writer, but he gives everything high rankings >_>

Only recently. Back in 84 he was far more discriminating.

[Crusade>Raiders]

Only recently. Back in 84 he was far more discriminating.

Roeper was the most discriminating one. I remember back in '89 he actually gave Last Crusade a Thumbs Down because it was a retread of Raiders.

[Forbidden Eye]

<strike>Roeper</strike> was the most discriminating one. I remember back in '89 he actually gave Last Crusade a Thumbs Down because it was a retread of Raiders.

Siskel. :)

Still I agree, Ebert may or may mot have been a better critic back then, his reviews still shouldn't be taken as gospel, then or now(even though I generally agree with him on Indiana Jones). The fact he gave any film a good or bad review doesn't do much for or against the film

[Lance Quazar]

Siskel. :)

Still I agree, Ebert may or may mot have been a better critic back then, his reviews still shouldn't be taken as gospel, then or now(even though I generally agree with him on Indiana Jones). The fact he gave any film a good or bad review doesn't do much for or against the film

I agree that Ebert, at the end of the day, is still one man with one man's opinion.

I could find many other prominent critics who also appreciate "Temple of Doom", but, again, they're just more opinions. As is my own.

I was merely posting that as a counterpoint to DarthVile's obnoxious and condescending assertion that anyone who thinks ToD is great has "skewed" or deficient critical faculties.

Clearly Ebert, who is someone I've disagreed with vehemently, has devoted his life to thinking critically about films.

[Stoo]

I remember back in '89 he actually gave Last Crusade a Thumbs Down because it was a retread of Raiders.Because it is!:whip:
I was merely posting that as a counterpoint to DarthVile's obnoxious and condescending assertion that anyone who thinks ToD is great has "skewed" or deficient critical faculties.In Darth Vile's defense, it was the claim of Doom being a "masterpiece" that prompted his reply. The word, "masterpiece", is not one
to be bandied about lightly and, as good as the film is, a masterpiece it isn't. Raiders is an American masterpiece which is why that
film is listed in the Library of Congress' National Film Registry and not Doom.

Do I love "Doom"? Hell, yeah, it's #2! (For me, they all rank in the order they were released.) I can see someone ignoring "Mystery of the Blues"
and Young Indy in general but to ignore this one is absurd. Hadn't heard of anyone doing that until this thread, though.

I can't believe 4 people (so far) have voted for "No"....:rolleyes:

[James]

But where I think most fans, average moviegoers, and critics are concerned, Raiders is the best of the series by a long shot! Of course this is my opinion(LOL!), but I think most would agree with it!

Oh, I think Raiders will always be regarded as the best by the majority. I was just pointing out that it's become more common to see fans to disagree. Many of them grew up with LC- moreso than ROTLA- and simply have stronger feelings towards it.

Whatever anyone's opinion on Temple of Doom, you can't just dismiss it as not being part of the franchise. It exists, and therefore is.

Well, there are several franchises where fans almost unanimously try to pretend a sequel didn't happen. (I think the original question was asking if Indy was ever such a franchise, and, of course, it wasn't.)

One of the most famous examples of this is Halloween III. Fans trashed that film for years, and yet...today you can find plenty of people who defend it. This kind've goes back to my earlier point about TOD and LC. Sooner or later, just about every film seems to find its audience- no matter how badly it may have been panned. Later generations view a franchise out of context, and without the baggage fans may have had upon each films' original release.

[Crusade>Raiders]

Because it is!:whip:


Yes, but its either one or the other with these Indy movies. Its kinda like when Sean Connery left the role of James Bond, and the other actors take the mantle. They either run away from his protrayal(Moore, Lazenby), or try to recapture some of his aspects(Dalton with his rage, Brosnan with his suave, Craig with his awesomeness).

[Crusade>Raiders]

Who the hell are these Halloween 3 defenders? BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!

I think I watched Raiders first as a kid, and I remember it scared the **** out of me the end with the death angels and the face-melting Nazis, and I also remembered it being really awesome.

I saw Last Crusade for the first time in several years this year actually, and I was surprised with just how good it is. Its the most entertaining, its the funniest, it has the most heart/character development(due to the amazing chemistry between Ford and Connery), the best pacing(when Indy was escaping with his dad from the zeppelin, I couldn't believe it had already been over a hour, it flies by) and its just the most fun IMO.

[sandiegojones]

Who the hell are these Halloween 3 defenders? BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!


Halloweens III's total crapiness elevates it to greatness!

Hey by the way, there's....

"Three more days till Halloween, Halloween, Halloween. Three more days till Halloween. Silver Shamrock!" :up:

[The Man]

Halloweens III's total crapiness elevates it to greatness!

Hey by the way, there's....

"Three more days till Halloween, Halloween, Halloween. Three more days till Halloween. Silver Shamrock!" :up:

Damn good ending, too...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fe_f4nKbZk4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fe_f4nKbZk4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> :cool:

[sandiegojones]

Most annoying song EVER!!!! Stop it! Stop it!! STOP IT!!!

[James]

Cochran: We had a TIME getting it here. You wouldn't believe how we did it.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WXGbwIkvh38&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WXGbwIkvh38&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Nurhachi1991]

TOD is the best I even like it better than Raiders............ only by a tiny bit but it has it all.

[The Golden Idol]

I've gotta be honest. I've never really liked TOD, and probably never will. Granted, it does have some amazing moments, like the Minecar Chase and the Rope Bridge scene, but the whole movie is really subpar for me, especially with ROTLA and LC around.

[TheLastCrusader]

TOD is really amazing, can't get enough of it.

[sandiegojones]

Cochran: We had a TIME getting it here. You wouldn't believe how we did it.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WXGbwIkvh38&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WXGbwIkvh38&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
"Nobody knows who they are, or what they were doing, but their legacy remains, hewed into the living rock, of STONEHENGE!"

That's the funniest frickin' part when the "little druids" come out. "I think it's a big problem! The monument was in danger of being crushed....by a dwarf!"

"Two more days till Halloween, Halloween, Halloween...."

[James]

"I raise a practical question at this point. Are we going to do Stonehenge tomorrow?"

"No we're not gonna do ****ing Stonehenge!!!"

[Darth Vile]

I was merely posting that as a counterpoint to DarthVile's obnoxious and condescending assertion that anyone who thinks ToD is great has "skewed" or deficient critical faculties.
.

Full marks for… 1) Misquoting and misrepresenting my post. 2) Completely missing the point, which sort of exemplifies the point I was making. :rolleyes:


In Darth Vile's defence, it was the claim of Doom being a "masterpiece" that prompted his reply. The word, "masterpiece", is not one
to be bandied about lightly and, as good as the film is, a masterpiece it isn't. Raiders is an American masterpiece which is why that
film is listed in the Library of Congress' National Film Registry and not Doom.

Thank you. I can’t put it any more eloquently than you… so I won’t try. ;)

[Nurhachi1991]

TOD is better than LC and KOTCS combines.............

[oki9Sedo]

Oh, I think Raiders will always be regarded as the best by the majority. I was just pointing out that it's become more common to see fans to disagree. Many of them grew up with LC- moreso than ROTLA- and simply have stronger feelings towards it.



Well, there are several franchises where fans almost unanimously try to pretend a sequel didn't happen. (I think the original question was asking if Indy was ever such a franchise, and, of course, it wasn't.)

Pretend being the key word. You can't "consider" something to be part of the franchise or not, it just is or isn't.

[Crusade>Raiders]

http://www.batrock.net/?p=409#comment-22364

A negative TOD blog post I found randomly today :(

[The Man]

http://www.batrock.net/?p=409#comment-22364

A negative TOD blog post I found randomly today :(

Jeremy seems quite fond of it, though...

[Crusade>Raiders]

Jeremy seems quite fond of it, though...

He does, doesn't he ;)