Why did Henry Jones Sr. die?

[JCC1004]

I know he drank from the Holy Grail in LC and in KOTCS he was dead. Is there a rule that only one peron can have enternal life? It doesn't make sense. On the Indy Wiki it also says that Grail Knight died. This gave me the assumtion that only one peron can have enternal life. I know he declined the moive offer but they didn't have to make him dead. On a side note the smilies here aren't moving anmore.

Good day.:hat:

[Ironclaw]

If you watch Last Crusade again, remember what the Grail Knight says: "The Grail cannot pass beyond the great seal. That is the boundary, and the price, of immortality." So if Indy/Henry Sr were to stay with the Grail Knight, then yes, they would be immortal. But being that they passed that seal (the one Else stepped on which caused the whole thing to come crashing down), then they are no longer immortal.

[lao che & sons]

exactly, but I never heard that the grail knight died. Hmmmmm, But I had the same question for a little while until I watched crusade again very closley and found this out. I think that is the main thing that has confused most people:confused:

[HovitosKing]

exactly, but I never heard that the grail knight died. Hmmmmm, But I had the same question for a little while until I watched crusade again very closley and found this out. I think that is the main thing that has confused most people:confused:

Probably because it wasn't spoon-fed to them, like everything else nowadays including KotCS.

[JCC1004]

If Henry and the grail knight lost immortality when Elsa crossed the seal why didn't Indy?

[ResidentAlien]

If Henry and the grail knight lost immortality when Elsa crossed the seal why didn't Indy?


:eek:

You're joking right?


You're not really this slow?


INDY IS NOT IMMORTAL.

It has nothing to do with Elsa crossing the seal. It's that they all crossed the seal. Immortality is given to those who SIT IN THE TEMPLE AND DRINK FROM THE GRAIL. Ie... Indy and Henry would have had to forever remained in the temple drinking from the grail.


*facepalm*

[JCC1004]

Now I get it. I didn't thinkt hat Indy could live that long. I really dsevered that facepalm comment. everyone makes stupid mistakes. But the question remains, why did the Grail Knight die?

[ResidentAlien]

Now I get it. I didn't thinkt hat Indy could live that long. I really dsevered that facepalm comment. everyone makes stupid mistakes. But the question remains, why did the Grail Knight die?


He stopped drinking!

[Lonsome_Drifter]

He stopped drinking!

And, they say drinking is bad for you.
*cheers!*

[Ironclaw]

^--I'm not sure what you mean. :confused: There's really nothing to state that the Grail Knight died. The outer temple collapsed, which means he's trapped forever inside with the Grail.

If you meant why didn't the Grail Knight die, it's because he stayed within the range of the Great Seal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's also nothing written or spoken to state that you have to continuously drink from the Grail to remain immortal...you could partake once and stay in the temple and live forever.

I may have been confusing with my original wording that Elsa caused Indy and Henry Sr to not be immortal. That's not the case. By crossing the seal with the Grail she caused the collapse, but that didn't take away their immortality; them leaving did that.

Don't feel too bad about it; a lot of people I've spoken to about the film initially didn't understand.

My question is why don't they just go back and excavate the Grail temple? It's not like it didn't go anywhere, it's just buried. And, you know, Indy's an archaeologist--it's kind of his job to dig.

[JCC1004]

He stopped drinking!
No, he couldn't drink. Elsa droped in the pit. He probably just drank from a shiny one.:D

[Lonsome_Drifter]

^--I'm not sure what you mean. :confused: There's really nothing to state that the Grail Knight died. The outer temple collapsed, which means he's trapped forever inside with the Grail.

If you meant why didn't the Grail Knight die, it's because he stayed within the range of the Great Seal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's also nothing written or spoken to state that you have to continuously drink from the Grail to remain immortal...you could partake once and stay in the temple and live forever.

I may have been confusing with my original wording that Elsa caused Indy and Henry Sr to not be immortal. That's not the case. By crossing the seal with the Grail she caused the collapse, but that didn't take away their immortality; them leaving did that.

Don't feel too bad about it; a lot of people I've spoken to about the film initially didn't understand.

My question is why don't they just go back and excavate the Grail temple? It's not like it didn't go anywhere, it's just buried. And, you know, Indy's an archaeologist--it's kind of his job to dig.

Because the search for the Grail is the search for the divine in all of us. Indiana found out that it was not about the Grail. It was about finding his father again; both in the true sense and by them being close for the first time.
The scene where Henry Sr. calls him Indiana, and Indy reaches out his free hand is when we see Indiana Jones grow from a man in search of fortune and glory to a man who sees the true meaning of life.
Sappy, but true.

Also, I like to think that the Grail Knight lived. To be forever trapped beyond the boundary of the seal.

[ResidentAlien]

No, he couldn't drink. Elsa droped in the pit. He probably just drank from a shiny one.:D


Yes, he couldn't drink, he stopped drinking. He died. Not hard.

[Ironclaw]

But where are you pulling that from? Is it in one of the Ultimate guides that says you have to keep drinking from it? Nothing in the screenplay/dialogue says that. Just curious.

[ResidentAlien]

But where are you pulling that from? Is it in one of the Ultimate guides that says you have to keep drinking from it? Nothing in the screenplay/dialogue says that. Just curious.


It is mentioned earlier in the film that another brother left the temple and died of extreme old age-- ie he was not drinking from the grail, he continued to age.

[lao che & sons]

^--I'm not sure what you mean. :confused: There's really nothing to state that the Grail Knight died. The outer temple collapsed, which means he's trapped forever inside with the Grail.



We'll in staff of kings you can see the outside of the grail temple during the plane chase, and it's still intact even after the colapse. :D

[Lonsome_Drifter]

It is mentioned earlier in the film that another brother left the temple and died of extreme old age-- ie he was not drinking from the grail, he continued to age.

I think the other brother died because he himself crossed the seal.
If I took a drink from the Grail, and stayed beyond the seal for 400 years, and decided one day to walk out of the temple. I think I would not just die, but start to age where I left off.

I think you just have to take one drink and stay behind the seal to live forever.

[Ironclaw]

Wasn't that because he passed the Great Seal, i.e. "The boundary and the price of immortality" ?

edit: You got to it first, Lonsome_Drifter.

[ResidentAlien]

You guys aren't paying attention--

The exact quote:

"The Grail cannot pass beyond the great seal. That is the boundary, and the price, of immortality."


The grail cannot pass. To drink from the grail is immortal life. Taking the grail from the seal negates that (as seen in the film).

The legend says nothing about leaving the temple. But clearly that the knight left and died of extreme old age after journeying for a time suggests that it's the lack of the grail that extinguished his life.

[Lonsome_Drifter]

You guys aren't paying attention--

The exact quote:

"The Grail cannot pass beyond the great seal. That is the boundary, and the price, of immortality."


The grail cannot pass. To drink from the grail is immortal life. Taking the grail from the seal negates that (as seen in the film).

The legend says nothing about leaving the temple. But clearly that the knight left and died of extreme old age after journeying for a time suggests that it's the lack of the grail that extinguished his life.

Well, maybe you are right. I forgot about the Grail Knight saying that. So, that means the Grail Knight himself must have died also. Not, by the collapse of the temple, but because he could not drink and by the Grail passing over the great seal.

So, either way the Grail Knight was screwed.

[Rocket Surgeon]

So, either way the Grail Knight was screwed.

Since they left it open ended, I like to believe that a man of such great faith who more then likely helped to build/carve that temple wouldn't be so intimidated by a mere ledge and recovered the grail...hell maybe he fell trying to get at it, ("it seems my strength has left me"). It's not like he doesn't have time to get it.

[Lonsome_Drifter]

Since they left it open ended, I like to believe that a man of such great faith who more then likely helped to build/carve that temple wouldn't be so intimidated by a mere ledge and recovered the grail...hell maybe he fell trying to get at it, ("it seems my strength has left me"). It's not like he doesn't have time to get it.

Maybe he wanted to die?
He looked very tired of life when we seen him. He was eager to pass his duty on to Indiana also. So, maybe he just laid down and let death overtake him.

[Rocket Surgeon]

Maybe he wanted to die?
He looked very tired of life when we seen him. He was eager to pass his duty on to Indiana also. So, maybe he just laid down and let death overtake him.

Maybe he finally walked home.

[indyclone25]

the way i see it the grail knight only drank from the cup when he needed sustanace(sorry spelling). so to rejuvenate himself he would drink to survive because im sure there was no food source in there unless he had a garden hidden someplace and he ate bugs or mice ? but not having the cup anymore the water he would drink would just be water and without food he would die --- do you know where i am coming from? so i think it was inevetible(spelling) that he would soon die.

[Perhilion]

I think you need to keep drinking from the Grail. It's not a one-drink-cures-all type deal.

[Crack that whip]

You guys aren't paying attention--

The exact quote:

"The Grail cannot pass beyond the great seal. That is the boundary, and the price, of immortality."


The grail cannot pass. To drink from the grail is immortal life. Taking the grail from the seal negates that (as seen in the film).

The legend says nothing about leaving the temple. But clearly that the knight left and died of extreme old age after journeying for a time suggests that it's the lack of the grail that extinguished his life.

He left and died of extreme old age, yes, but his leaving required crossing the seal, which itself would restart one's halted aging ("That is the boundary, and the price, of immortality," meaning immortality itself is revoked if one goes back across the seal). I don't think there's anything in the film that conclusively establishes one needs to keep drinking to maintain immortality. Based on what we're given, I think it's entirely possible (not certain and clear, but possible) simply taking one sip from the Grail will do it, as long as one never again leaves the temple.

Of course, the knight presumably continued to drink from the Grail anyway, simply because surely in his centuries-long vigil he'd get thirsty once in a while and the Grail is apparently the only cup in the temple from which one can safely drink, so perhaps it's moot. :p

[Ironclaw]

That was my argument too, Crack That Whip, several posts back. This board seems to be divided on what's going on with the Grail/immortality thing.

[Crack that whip]

It does seem to be one of those things that causes a great deal of confusion. I don't know why, but it happens often enough that I don't want to pin it down entirely on individual viewers' inattentiveness; it's as though there's something in the construction of the scene that tends to cause people to miss it.

Regardless of whatever one thinks about having to keep drinking to remain immortal, it's definitely established that one doesn't remain immortal if one crosses the seal and leaves the temple, but people ask about it all the time. People must somehow overlook, forget or miss the knight's line, for some reason.

:confused:

[MaverickKing]

I was about to say that. I always thought that it didn't matter if you drank from the Grail... because once it passes beyond the Great Seal, it becomes just a cup.

[Ripley's Cat]

Jones Sr. untimely death occurred whilst he was trying to convert his power supply from 240 down to 110. According to his coroner his last words were...






"May he who have illuminated this..."





>please conclude<

[Lambonius]

I always got the impression that drinking from the Grail grants immortality, but NOT invulnerability. By this I mean that one who drinks from the Grail (and doesn't cross the seal) will never die naturally or of disease, but that they CAN be killed by physical trauma. The touch of Grail water to the flesh of the wound itself will heal the wound, as we see in the film, but it certainly was not enough for Henry to just drink from the cup--he drank, but was not healed physically until his wound was literally cleansed. Additionally, though the Grail knight never died of old age or disease, he certainly continued to age physically, both externally in his appearance and internally ("my strength hath left me.") And because the Grail wasn't on hand to immediately cure the physical wounds that he most certainly suffered as a result of having a friggin' temple fall on him, i would think that the knight most certainly died as a result of that event. He wasn't invulnerable to harm, he just would never die as long as nothing physically killed him.

The term 'immortality' itself simply means 'unending life.'

See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immortality

It does NOT mean 'incapable of being wounded, hurt, or damaged.'

See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/invulnerability

There you have it, folks.

[Lonsome_Drifter]

Jones Sr. untimely death occurred whilst he was trying to convert his power supply from 240 down to 110. According to his coroner his last words were...






"May he who have illuminated this..."



"...illuminate me."

[JCC1004]

I always got the impression that drinking from the Grail grants immortality, but NOT invulnerability. By this I mean that one who drinks from the Grail (and doesn't cross the seal) will never die naturally or of disease, but that they CAN be killed by physical trauma. The touch of Grail water to the flesh of the wound itself will heal the wound, as we see in the film, but it certainly was not enough for Henry to just drink from the cup--he drank, but was not healed physically until his wound was literally cleansed. Additionally, though the Grail knight never died of old age or disease, he certainly continued to age physically, both externally in his appearance and internally ("my strength hath left me.") And because the Grail wasn't on hand to immediately cure the physical wounds that he most certainly suffered as a result of having a friggin' temple fall on him, i would think that the knight most certainly died as a result of that event. He wasn't invulnerable to harm, he just would never die as long as nothing physically killed him.

The term 'immortality' itself simply means 'unending life.'

See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immortality

It does NOT mean 'incapable of being wounded, hurt, or damaged.'

See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/invulnerability

There you have it, folks.
So the temple falling apart would have killed him. All 3 brothers drank from the Grail and one died of old age. That doesn't make sense. What you are saying is they will live foreever if they don't get killed in battle, accident, etc. Why would the other brother die of old age when it gives you eternal life?

[Lonsome_Drifter]

So the temple falling apart would have killed him. All 3 brothers drank from the Grail and one died of old age. That doesn't make sense. What you are saying is they will live foreever if they don't get killed in battle, accident, etc. Why would the other brother die of old age when it gives you eternal life?

Either:

A-He passed over the great seal
or
B-He could not get to the Grail to keep drinking

[TheFeltFedora]

Well, Henry Jones Sr. was supposed to make a cameo in CS, but when asked, Sean Connery said that he was enjoying retirement too much to appear, so to compensate for the fact that he didn't appear, I assume that the writers killed him off. I think his character was still alive until 1955, cause Indy mentioned "It's been a hard couple of years. First Dad, then Marcus..."

Also, The Grail Knight is probably dead, as the cup passed the great seal, and for him to retrieve it, he would have to pass it too, which would mean no more immortality for him.

Plus, the temple fell on him :p

[slingshot]

Also, The Grail Knight is probably dead, as the cup passed the great seal, and for him to retrieve it, he would have to pass it too, which would mean no more immortality for him.

Plus, the temple fell on him :p


-and that's the clincher!

[Mickiana]

I liked Indycyclone's idea that he might have fed off mice or bugs. I can just see him running around trying to catch his meager meal before vespers! No wonder he didn't look that healthy. Would he have been more like Ozzy Osbourne and ripped the mices' heads off or more like Renfeld from Dracula and enjoyed a cultured and dignified assorted platter of insect canapes?