Indy 4 Artifact

[EvilDevo]

what do you guys think indy will be searching for in the fourth movie? what else is there that (a) is mysterious (b) has some crazy yet semi-believeable power (c) has a bit of truth behind it? ive heard rumors about the shroud of turin and atlantis and stuff like that, but nothing really seems to strike me as something that would be really fitting for a jones flick. what do you think would be a good artifact? i think itd be kinda cool if indy found something non-christian (ark, grail) and the 4th movie didnt involve nazis. then we got 2 nazi/christain movies, and 2 other adventures that are totally different. i dont know... ive spent days trying to imagine what indys next adventure would be, but i cant think of anything. if youve got some prediction about indy 4, lemme know...
DEVO

[jones]

Well we already know they'll be no nazis in it so thatsa given!

[DrJones56]

Originally posted by Devin_149
what do you guys think indy will be searching for in the fourth movie? what else is there that (a) is mysterious (b) has some crazy yet semi-believeable power (c) has a bit of truth behind it? ive heard rumors about the shroud of turin and atlantis and stuff like that, but nothing really seems to strike me as something that would be really fitting for a jones flick. what do you think would be a good artifact? i think itd be kinda cool if indy found something non-christian (ark, grail) and the 4th movie didnt involve nazis. then we got 2 nazi/christain movies, and 2 other adventures that are totally different. i dont know... ive spent days trying to imagine what indys next adventure would be, but i cant think of anything. if youve got some prediction about indy 4, lemme know...
DEVO

Uh, huh...... Nazis aren't in it, it's been said a million times. And the Ark wasn't nessaselarly (sp?) Chirstian, it was a Jewish artifact, so was the Grail, mesianic (sp?) that is. :p But there's no way to know now, all we can do is guess, and I have no clue what so ever.

[bob]

I do see the trend of Judeo-Christian objects continuing. Yet there is no obvious artiface left in the Bible outside of Genesis, and the using this would make the film fantasy.
Atlantis has been done and just doesnt have the aura of the Ark or the Grail and isnt an artifact anyway.

My opinion on good artifacts for Indy IV

- Philosophers Stone
- Spear of Destiny
- Some Artifact connected with Eden
- The Staff of Moses

[vornoff]

The Spear of Destiny is by far the coolest and most intruiging but...it was retrieved in 47 i think and put away in some museum .
And Indy can hardly go after an artifact that already has been found.

[EvilDevo]

hey, dont wanna sound like a moron, but i have no clue what the spear of destiny is... ive heard of it once, but that was off of the sequel to wolfenstein. hah hah. somebody fill me in please, thanks

[bob]

The Spear of Destiny is a Spear that supposedly pierced Jesus at the Crucifixtion.
It turned up under a French Cathedral at the time of the first Crusade (supposedly) where it was miracliously found by a Hermit Leading the Peoples Crusade.
It eventuelly found its way to Germany and was supposedly held by the Third Reich it mysteriously vanished at the end of WWII some say that it was taken by Patton or some such person and put away.

However there is no Mythology about it doing anything special, hmmm a Spear yes you can Pierce people with it and presumably hit people with it except that the wood would have rotted away so you would be left with a Standard Roman Spear head.....

Not good Indy fodder in my opinion.....
But the Best New Testemant object I can think of....

[vornoff]

Just a question , The Spear has it indeen been found ?
btw You can easely attribute the same powers of the Ark to the Spear...

The sword of Ghenghis Khan
The Death Sea scrolls
The Spear of destiny

These are my favorites.

[bob]

The Spear has vanished and its history is murky to say the least and most probably it is a fake.

- The Sword of Genghis Khan, hmmm I dont see this having any supernatural powers as Genghis was not really a warrior. The two best Swords I can think of are:
- Excalibar
- Achilles Sword which was later given to Alexander the Great

The Dead Sea Scrolls are not miraclious, but certainly evidence from one of them could put Indy off on a quest.
One of them is indeed a treasure map to the Gold that was plundered in Exodus.....

[00Kevin]

for the record, It's not called the spear of Destiny, that was the name of the comic book it was in, I beleive the spear is called the spear of longliness or something.

could be wrong

anywho, we have had rumers of Garden of Eden,

I remember old rumors were:

-atlantis
-noah's arc
-the re-occuring topics such as this one (:))
-fountain of youth

[vornoff]

The Dead Sea Scrolls are not miraclious, but certainly evidence from one of them could put Indy off on a quest.
One of them is indeed a treasure map to the Gold that was plundered in Exodus..... [/B][/QUOTE]

Really ?,thats facinating and by far the coolest thing i've heard so far.
You can easely make a story of that...throughout the movie Indy battles the villians over this map locating the buried 'treasure' which is ofcourse located in some tomb or temple surrounded by all sorts of boobytraps.

[bob]

Indiana Jones and the Lost Gold of Exodus?

The problem is with that storyline is that no one has heard of that and it is not an artifact as such. All of the films so far have been about Artifacts
Idol, Ark, Ashes, Shankara Stones, Cross of Coronardo, Grail.
So far the only two artifacts (i.e not Eden or Atlantis)that are credible artifacts for Indy to go after are:
- Spear Of Destiny
- Phiosophers Stone

[jones]

I think that no matter what the story ,i'm not saying i want a bad story though i want a good one , that people will go to see it because its indiana jones. not cuz the story. cause indy hasnt been out since 15 years wen indy 4 comes out.

[Seawolf]

This may sound crazy what about Excalibur? Indy's dad was looking for the Grail and the sword gave King Arthur great power. It would continue the theme from the Last Crusade.

[Aaron H]

I personally was thinking it might be cool to have the Library of Alexrandria.
One could have Russia/China after the scrolls from the library that give clues leading to other buried treasures (natural and man-made) that remain hidden around the world.

[vaxer]

I think that something that has to do with garden of eden would be cool.

[Iridium]

The Spear of Destiny (also known as the Spear of St Longinus, and the Spear of St Mauritz) is thus named because who ever wields it can determine the fate of mankind. It's not lost, as it was returned to the Hofburg treasury in Vienna at the end of World War II.

[jones]

Yeh I like the Garden of Edan idea too. People are a lot more familiar with that too because apparently people have heard of that. The only thing i'm not sure about is what would happen if they found it? It's not like an artifact they can bring home...?

[Jones_86]

Indiana Jones and the Knowledge of Alexandria

any thoughts on the lost knowledge of the library at alexandria???

just my two cents...

OUT

[jones]

Do you think the script and stroy they're working on is anyhing we know? When I say "we know" i mean something we already read about on the net for an Indy4 story idea. I think this will be something that we weren't aware about yet and they're being very good at keeping it locked up to only about, probabaly 5 or 6 people!

[monkey]

All these are great ideas but I just have a question: Why do we necessarily need an "artifact" per se for a good Indiana Jones story?

I'm not saying we don't, just throwing out the question.

Of course there needs to be a "quest" of some kind, all adventure movies/stories need a quest, but why not something other than an "artifact"?

There could be an artifact, or artifacts involved (he is an archaeologist after all), but the movie/story doesn't need to center so much on the artifact itself. It can just be part of the story.

Personally I don't think the actual artifact itself is necessarily so crucial to a successful story.

As long as it's got archaeology, action, and adventure.

[jimmi]

well it's gotta involve archaeology of some sort. if they go after a lost city or something instead of a particular artifact then that's fine with me

[jennens]

Alexander the Great's Sword? "He who cuts the Gordian Knot will rule all Asia" We could go visit Mao in China or Korea or Vietnam or something...

The Bronze Serpent? Moses raised a bronze serpent on a stick and anyone who looked at it was cured of snakebites, if I remember rightly. Could star Steve Irwin. I think Charlton Heston used something similar to part the Red Sea...

The Obelisk of Axum? Don't know much about it but it would make a great title. Also: Ezekiel's Fire Chariot.

The phoenix? The temple of Solomon? Or Mines... anyone remember Stewart Granger? An Inca temple that proves outer-space visitations (as in the von Daniken books). Or even just any old Incan artefact.

[jones]

Like in TOD I got so caught up in all the action that I forgot Indy was still looking for the stones lol. But the thing is if it's a certain "place" what's gunna happen when they find it? Take pictures and leave?

[bob]

The problem with most of these ideas is that they are quite obscure, while all (bar 1) of the Indy Artifacts are well known, out of all the suggestions I can only see Atlantis, Spear of Destiny, and the Phiosophers Stone as being well known in the same term as the Grail.
The problem with Atlantis is that, it is secular and there is nothing maraclious about what Plato wrote. Any Artifact would probably have been made up (like in FOA the God making machine!) and would stretch creadability. It would also take Indy away from the real world.
As for the Spear the fact is that it was an artifact that popped up at the time of the Crusades and is a fake also ir is not hidden in some ancient chamber but in the modern world. Also I dont see how anybody post WWII would want it...
The Philosophers stone is in my opinion the best artifact as it could be given an origin in Eden and what would be a better artifact than the Stone for the Soviets to go after as it would turn base metals into Gold or maybe Uranium!, Plutonium it could turn into a tug of war between Indy, Soviets and American Forces. Best of all it actually is an artifact rather than a place (Atlantis, Eden, El-Dorado etc), and it has a power that is useful and credible in the post war world.

[00Kevin]

good thoughts bob! the stone would seem a logical choice, but is it the BEST choice?

[bob]

It is the only Extremely well known artifact that I can think of, and the mythology has not been entirely written so this can be made up.....
Can anyone actually think of another artifact (not place or extremely large object such as Noahs Ark) that has (been said to) existed in Historical times that fits better. I really think that to use another Judeo-Christian Artifact would be a mistake as there isnt really anything else sure you can grab the Staff of Moses or something but it is not a well known artifact with Legends built up about it, it is just an inatimate object. As for Artifacts such as Dead Sea Scrolls and the Lost Libary of Alexandria they are adventure starters, and the Swords of Alexander the Great and Genghis (Alexanders was supposed to have been Achilles as well as his armour) would make good artifacts for the beginning of the film, but not mystical enough, the whole business with the Knot was not magical he just cut a knot.

[monkey]

The problem with those "He who posesses the ......will rule all of Asia", or "The army that has the ......will be invincible" is that they aren't really credible.

The fact is that in the 50's "The army that posesses the most airpower and armored units will rule all Asia", and "He who is able to call in air strikes and artillery support will be invincible on the battlefield".

In the case of the Korean war It was "He who posesses Napalm will rule the Korean peninsula".

I just don't see the Soviets charging into Western Europe pinning all their hopes for a victory on throwing the spear of destiny, or the knot of gordian, or something at the NATO forces.

This is why I think your idea is the best Bob. Because it involves an ancient technology, not just an artifact.

I think that a search or quest for some kind of powerful ancient technology would be better than just one particular artifact. I guess the philosopher's stone would fit that description. But the problem I have with that is that there has already been an Indiana Jones novel published with that as the theme. Indiana Jones and the Philosopher's Stone.

[jones]

I dont like that name though. It's too geeky. That's the name of the Harry Potter movie in one part of the world too. What about the Sword of King Arther or whatever it is

[jennens]

Originally posted by bob
sure you can grab the Staff of Moses or something but it is not a well known artifact with Legends built up about it,

Beg to differ on two counts - one: there is a whole mythology surrounding Moses' staff including its supposed destruction by King Hezekiah centuries later (echoes of the Ark?), the demonising of the staff and calling it Nehustan, its symbolic representation of Christ, and the beginning of serpent cults (brood of vipers etc... check out http://www.christsdeath.org/terminating/brassserpent.html .) For the destruction thing try the second book of Kings, chapter 18 verse 4.

Plus we can see the beginning of its healing powers carried forward today as a symbol of medicine - which of us hasn't seen a snake on an ambulance or in some hospital's logo? Healing thingy would carry on the 'power of the grail' theme.

And secondly - who among us can honestly say that they knew a lot about the Ark of the Covenant before ROLA? As a writer you can make the audience think they know things - particularly myths and legends - fairly easily, as long as you present them as well known myths and legends which everyone is talking about. We're a pretty gullible species....

[Edited by jennens on 07-31-2002 at 02:26 am]

[jones]

lol I never thought about it that way Jennens. That's a really good point. I think it made me think I knew about the Ark.

[bob]

The Ark is still far more well known than the staff of Moses as it actually has some Legends about it that get there way into and appear in the Bible/Torah/Qu'ran.
I cannot really say that there is enough iconography on something like the Staff of Moses, esps as it is just a Staff and other than being priceless I cannot see it as having any powers reasonably (i.e Ark filled with the symbol of Yahwehs Covanent with the Israelities etc etc, Holy Grail the blood of a god-man, Shankara Stones symbol of a stone with a lightbulb inside Staff of Moses basicly a lightning rod for God).
My focus for Indy IV is that the artifact would have to be worth going after for the Superpowers I can really only see Atlantis and the Philosophers Stone being useful in the age of the Bomb. It is a shame that the Nazis are not going to be in this as they would love the Spear of Destiny or the Staff of Moses simply because they are propoganda weapons and do neat tricks and probably prove some sort of Ayran superiority in their eyes, while the Soviets would need a pretty good reason to go after anything like a religious item!. The Nazis wanted symbols of power in artifacts while the Soviets would want power and probably not show it off.

[jones]

It would be cool if a part of the bad guys are nazi's, like X nazi's or whatever you wana call it. But I remember Darabount saying, "your gunna get some real good bad guys"

[monkey]

X-treme Nazis!!

[scifiwolf]

Who says the artifact has to be something which can be carried? Why not something much larger? Perhaps the Colossus of Rhodes or the Lighthouse at Alexandria? One of the wonders of the anceint world. Or even Amielia Earhart's plane? It would bring something different to the world of Indy while keeping in the original spirit of his adventures. Besides, something that has substantial, factual evidence of existance may help more of the audience of the original Indy fans and the new ones to relate to the story.


Note: For those of you who would read into what I just said, I am not refuting the existance of God or the existance of such Biblical relics. I am a faithful Christian and do believe in these things.

[jones]

But the thing is when Indy gets there what is he going to do? Even if he has to do something like Last Crusade's traps, he can't fight for it if he can't take it. Yanno what i mean? What is he going to do when he gets to it? Take pictures?

[scifiwolf]

Well, what if he found the object or place, only to find it destroyed or something? If you look at the three movies, the only thing he recovered and brought home was the arc. He gave up the Sankara stones and the Grail was lost.
He dosen't necessarily have to even find it, but answer the question of where it was and why it isn't there anymore. Archaeology isn't always about finding artifacts, but finding out history.

[bob]

It is the Holy Grail of Indy (pardon the pun) that Indy is in the business to find artifacts so in theroy at least he can bring them home and make money.

Indy is very mercenary when it comes to archaeology generally.

[jones]

I'd rather stick with an artifact. But that's just me :)

[Attila the Professor]

Atlantis worked, and so did other mysterious places in the books - that's really one of the few popular (meaning oft-used) objects of quests that hasn't been used in the films, having already scene a device to communicate with God, a powerful group of stones, and an eternal life provider. I would be happy with El Dorado - unlimited riches, mountain setting, and with some sort of mysticism thrown in (to fit the pattern, but the riches are what the Russians (if they are the villians) are looking for). Just a thought.

[jones]

But books and movies are differnt things. Think about video game adapted to movies. Yeah it's great for a game, but not for a movie.

[dmaster]

My guess to Indy 4 artifacts ?

The Ark of the Covenant

Why ? Because it just plain and simple closes a circle on the series.

Confirmation ? This is George Lucas doing the story we're talking about ;]

First shot:

The warehouse is opened, cool Spielberg shots show some men carrying the ark's box away on a misty fog day.

Undercover US government agency/Soviets/Crazy scientist/Capitalist goes on with a top-secret R&D project on the ark.

It is discovered that the full powers of the ark are yet to be fully tapped and that it can be focused to do wondrous things but....

To achieve this... a new artifact must be found...

The rest... I leave it to Lucas/Frank Darabont :]

[00Kevin]

welcome to the Raven dmaster (the wouldn't happen to be a reference to a certain soccer film from america, would it?)

[Randy_Flagg]

I like the Excalibur idea since it sticks to the formula, yet takes it in a new direction (plus I see a cool sword fight worked in there somewhere.) There's already a rejected script for this ("Indiana Jones and The Sword Of Arthur"), and while I wouldn't suggest using it, elements of it would work. Excalibur is what causes Indy lose his eye (ouch), hence the eyepatch in "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles." I also like the scene at the end of the script, when the sword falls back into the lake and the Lady Of The Lake's hand appears to grab it-- it would make a cool scene on a par with the ending to Raiders when the lid falls back on the ark.

Indy already found Noah's Ark in one of the novels, so I'm not sure if Lucas would go back to that... otherwise I think that would also make a good story.

[jones]

I really hope the keep the YIJC, the books, and the movies all seprete.

[bob]

I have actually found something very interesting about Nazi involvement in Atlantis.
The Nazis actually believed that Ayrans and all the Royalty of the world (As well as most with O type blood) were Atlantians.
During WWII there were Nazi scientists in Tibet and Nepal looking for evidence of the Atlanteans. Himmler was actually searching for Atlantis believing that somewhere in the world a lost tribe of Atlanteans still exist.

So historically if the Nazis were the Villians Atlantis is the most historically accurate choice.....

[Coldfyre]

I'm getting a little sick of the Christian artifacts. I think 3 out of 4 movies having Christian artifacts would just be too much. I think by now Indy must believe in that sort of thing. I think Excalibur would be much cooler. Or maybe something else related to magic and Europe. All of Indy's adventures have been mostly in Asia and the Middle East. It would be nice to have him in Europe, or North America, or Africa maybe. A voodoo artifact or something, perhaps.

[monkey]

I second that motion!!

Enough already with biblical stuff.

[jimmi]

yeah i don't really want christian artifacts either, it would make ToD seem like the odd one out. as in all likelyhood this is the last indy movie, they would probably make it is as grand in scale as possible, something the audience can really be drawn into. and it being a hollywood movie with an english-speaking western world audience mainly being catered for, they might go with the biblical theme again to get the biggest impact.

[bob]

I dont think that there are any good Christian Artifacts left, i mean with enough mystery and legend surrounding it (damm Catholic Church putting all of these objects on display!).
So that leaves if it is to be Religious:
Judaism: Already been done.
Islam: V.Bad religion for Relics really except the Meteorite in Mecca, and the Stone that Muhammad ascended to supposedly (They must really like rocks!) :)
Hinduism: Been done, most people dont have the faintest idea about a lot of the religion (except me of course because I played Visnuh in a school play!). Most of it is lost in the mists of time, and are not tied in to recent(ish) events like Judaism so artifacts are rare.
Buddhism: NO!, The Buddha didnt much like leaving earthly possesions.
Sikhism: Nah
Christianity: Other than Genesis and Exodus artifacts nothing much, and to put in anything from Genesis would be very political.
Greek/Roman/Viking Religions: They are just a pile of Magic Hammers and swords really.

Secular Artifacts
- Excalibar - Arthur legend already been done in Crusade, besides as much as Iam fond of my homeland it is not very exciting for adventuring.
- Philosophers Stone - good scope for Indy but not enough information, but at least almost everyone has heard of it.
- Atlantis - Everyone heard of it, but very dubious myth and not an actual artifact.

[Aaron H]

Gensis/Garden of Eden was a VERY big possiblity, but it doesn't seem that way now. Everyone is 'mum' on the subject of what the movie will be about.
I personally think they'll either invent something or continue with a religious theme (not just Judasim or Christianity, mind you). Maybe something with Stonehenge.

btw, bob, Gensis & Exodus are from Judasim. Whereas Christianity is a "branch" off of Judasim. So really one could say that they are all together separate.:);)

[jones]

That would be really cool with Stonehendge! It could have Indy going to differnet places leading to more clues about it's history and mysteries! We probabaly are guessing all the wrong answers though to the new script...

[bob]

It would be nice if the treasure hunt could cut right through the Christian Tradition, and the Older Tradition, sort of meshing them together.

[vornoff]

Stonehenge ?
Muslim artifacts(hahaha) ?
Voodoo dolls !!!!?

What next Viking pottery ?

Indy in a non desert/jungle location ?

It is obvious no one here is in marketing,

[jimmi]

who would be, eh?

[Randy_Flagg]

What about something from Greek Mythology? The Labyrinth at Knossos (ughh.. a CGI Minotaur chasing Indy... maybe not.)

I just hope it's not some made up artifact/place. And I hope Lucas doesn't give us a "Mummy"-like storyline where Indy unleashes a great supernatural evil while taking an amulet from an ancient tomb. Works for Lara, not for Indy.

[vornoff]

Originally posted by jimmi
who would be, eh?


I would,
I am very clever.

[jones]

I think it'll still be good to see a fake artifact. I liked it in TOD and i'd like to see that again.

[Coldfyre]

Maybe he could go after an artifact of legendary power, and then find out it's just a regular artifact and the power was just in myths and legends. That would be different. Then again, that would be like an episode of the X-Files where the monster turns out to be just a hoax. Yeah, right.

[bob]

That would be a bit of a let down.

I would like to see some Indy artifact with supposedly supernatural powers explained though.

[monkey]

I second the motion about not having a "Mummy" like storyline. Please no 'Unleashing' of some awesome entity or something. No Scorpion king running around with eight legs.

Let's keep the supernatural as a subtle part of the plot, let's focus on Action and Adventure.

[bob]

I think that there must be something of something being unleshed but keeping it mysterious and a threat is far better than having it marching around chasing people. In Indy the Supernatural should be kept to a minimium so that it does not turn into a complete fantasy film.

[jones]

In other words keep it believable.

[bob]

In a nutshell.

[vornoff]

I have thought this true and i am convinced we might see some alien artifact.
It fits the 50s better then some religious artifact besides take in mind that both the Russians and Chinese were atheist and would have no interest in Eden or Noahs ark.

Its what Monkey always said the 30s are the best period for adventure,the 50s however are more approriate for some Scifi angle to the story.

What defines the 50s ?
the space race.

Now how easy can you make a story of the following...

space race
commies
Indy
alien artifact
the pyramids and mayan temples

And remember this ,George Lucas thought the same thing.

[jones]

Actualy-no one hate me- I think thats a good idea. BUT I DONT want to see the aliens in the movie! Indy has never beenin a pyramid. I think it's time.

[BananaJones]

I dunno if Indy 4 will return to Egypt since they already used its background for Raiders. They should do something that was important in the 50's where Communism was getting headlines (China and Russia)

[00Kevin]

china would be a great location

a)communism is taking over
b)the ancient times may leave valuable treasures there

also Korea would be good, seeing the nation being split in 2 by communism, which still stands today

[00Kevin]

noting wrong with egypt, I can see a classic booby trap scene in a pyramid, that would be tops!

[BananaJones]

I agree, maybe Indy could go after a hidden artifact from one of those dynasties in China, maybe from Genghis Khan, etc.

[00Kevin]

Originally posted by BananaJones
I agree, maybe Indy could go after a hidden artifact from one of those dynasties in China, maybe from Genghis Khan, etc.

sounds good, we may need a history however, many people, expecially teens and children, would not know who it is.

[00Kevin]

this is a bit off, but perhaps something about the last emporer, gosh, I wish I saw that film when It came out.

[bob]

I dont really think though that actual things without occult conotations will be in the film. Also in the period of Indy IV (50's?) China isnt much fun for adventures all the gangsters are gone and I cant think of anyone who would want symbols of the old regime if anything Mao would want to destroy them rather than capture them.

[00Kevin]

well, he may also not want anyone barging in to his land, stealing things, that guy was a bit of a creep, so who knows.....

[jones]

Darabount did say we will get some really good bad guys!

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by jones
Darabount did say we will get some really good bad guys!

Good bad guys??? or you mean bad good guys :p JK

[00Kevin]

wasn't that joke already used?

[BananaJones]

I dunno, I just became a member for a month. So if someone said that before, I apologize and will not take credit for it. :o

[00Kevin]

doesn't matter, just thought someone said it a while back

[BananaJones]

Anybody here still think Indy 4 will involve Indy searching for an egyptian artifact?

PS I'm confused about Eden, is it referring to Garden of Eden in the bible?

[bob]

I dont think that Indy will spend the main part of the film looking for an Egyption artifact as it is a little too Mummy like and maybe a little too generic I mean it is only a matter of time before Egypt appears in a Tomb Raider film and the Myths of Egypt are a little too strange for even an Indy film....! But Indy may well return to Egypt.

Yes we are talking about the Garden of Eden, the whole rumour is based on what Lucas said Indy IV would be about years ago and a script report that said it was very religious but I seriously doubt that is still the plot being used as it was so long ago.

[00Kevin]

I don't mind, egypt perhaps as the opening, but those bloody people would think that's too unorigonal, even for the franchise that inspired adventures in egypt...................................bloody little.................................................

[bob]

I just dont want the Desert anymore!
It hasnt rained once in an Indy film (other than the beginning of LC)

[00Kevin]

I agree, not too much desert, an opening scene in the middle east is all I'm saying, but get new exotic locations

[Aaron H]

Originally posted by bob
I just dont want the Desert anymore!
It hasnt rained once in an Indy film (other than the beginning of LC)

It's raining when Jr. rescues Sr.

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by 00Kevin
I agree, not too much desert, an opening scene in the middle east is all I'm saying, but get new exotic locations

Exotic locations....
Indy is hamming up with those hot hula dancers in Hawaii.
Nothing would beat that!!!!

[00Kevin]

*cold stare*

[Jones_86]

i vote the amazon, great rift valley and canadian/alaskan rockies.......maybe a city chase(San Fran, Boston, NYC, etc...)
just my 2 cents

OUT

[00Kevin]

hmm, good Ideas, better then the hawaii Idea, save that for Bond, James Bond

[jones]

I dont really wana see him in the artic or anything. Doesn't really feel like Indy.

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by jones
I dont really wana see him in the artic or anything. Doesn't really feel like Indy.

I agree cuz it doesn't really fit him. He's more of a sunny climate character.

[BananaJones]

YEAH!!!! 100 posts!!!! whooooo!!!!

[00Kevin]

Originally posted by BananaJones
YEAH!!!! 100 posts!!!! whooooo!!!!

*looks down at the newbie celebrating 100 posts*

"and to think I was once down there.

anywho, nice job

I agree, arctic seems to out of the way, I could see a trip to siberia, or Nepal :D

[jones]

There should be more stuff in the jungle.

[BananaJones]

I already gave the jungle idea but 00Kevin shot it down saying my ideas sucks.

[bob]

Adventure films must feature either: - Desert
- Jungle
- Arctic

The Jungle is very difficult to film in, and very difficult to stage major Tank Chase like chases in.

The Arctic will either look barren or the Environment will dominate the action.

The Desert is a lot easier to film in and action sequences can be filmed without much trouble.

But please NO MORE CITIES!

[BananaJones]

What's wrong with cities...
Indy could use his whip to swing between buildings, just like Spiderman...:p

JK:D

[bob]

Indy does not belong in cities, he is a pulp hero and something of a modern day explorer. He does not belong in cities, he should be hacking his way through the jungle or going through the (Shudder desert) to find abandoned cities. NOT CITIES, otherwise Indys action sequences offer nothing different from the Bond films, etc you will see loads of chases on rivers (crusade) but how many times will you see an escape on a dinghy from a plane answer once.

[00Kevin]

yeah, no cities.

as for jungle, when did I say it was a bad Idea?

[monkey]

Bob, I've got to disagree a little bit on the City idea.

My Indy novel that I'm writing right now begins in the City of New York. There's quite a few rousing actions scenes and cliff hangers there. I think you'd like it.

I do agree though that he's got to eventually go to a more exotic environment, and he will, but I found the city of New York in 1937 to be a fine place to start the adventure.

[jones]

I disagree too bout the City thing. He can't just go from the jungle to the artic.

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by 00Kevin
yeah, no cities.

as for jungle, when did I say it was a bad Idea?

You shot down my ideas. And jungle was one of them. Remember.... or do you have anmesia...

[bob]

Cities could be alright if used right, but I do not want to see Bus Chases (like in the Sword of Arthur script), my point is that i want to see something original really and in cities that is quite unlikely.
Come on everyone had really got to admit that the Speedboat scenes were quite dull and unbelievable in LC....

I would really like to see a river boat chase in S-East Asia through all the Markets like in the Monkey King script, franticly dodging stuff. I like to see things that i have no experience of in Indy, and I certainly have experience of Docklands where the Chase was filmed, and pigeons.

[00Kevin]

Originally posted by BananaJones
Originally posted by 00Kevin
yeah, no cities.

as for jungle, when did I say it was a bad Idea?

You shot down my ideas. And jungle was one of them. Remember.... or do you have anmesia...

what page was this?

[Attila the Professor]

I'd love to see something in someplace cold (the mountains perhaps...). Remember that plot for Indy II (the one that wasn't used) that was China-centric - if we knew what was in it, we'd probably know something that'll show up (apart from the Great Wall motorcycle chase). More jungle would be good. The desert is great for Indy's adventures, but of all the "main stream" Indy stories (games and the trilogy), only ToD doesn't have any sand. That was one of the best things with the novels (and to a lesser degree, YIJC), seeing Indy in Greece, Brazil, Easter Island, the Arctic, Civil War battlefields (just about the only good thing about the White Witch was a more modern artifact, even if it was only gold coins), etc. (Come on, every one of McCoy's books had a desert setting at some point.)

Cities, jungles, mountains, snow... Sounds good to me.

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by 00Kevin


what page was this?

It was a different thread. I believe it was one of those chase scenes thread.

[BananaJones]

not really a big deal, 00Kevin.
My ideas always sucks!!!!! So I can't argue with you, dude. :)

[monkey]

Atilla, Funny that you should mention Civil War battlefields......

[00Kevin]

Originally posted by BananaJones
not really a big deal, 00Kevin.
My ideas always sucks!!!!! So I can't argue with you, dude. :)

common! I never ment to turn down the jungle, jungle is a great Idea...............

[BananaJones]

(scratches forehead) ummmm, Thanks! I guess..... (rubs chin)

[00Kevin]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by 00Kevin
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Do I see a hint of sarcasm?

[00Kevin]

funny, I was ganna say the same thing to you.............

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by 00Kevin
funny, I was ganna say the same thing to you.............

LOL :p Said it first!!!!:D

[00Kevin]

yeah well, i , uh, ummm, hmmmm, oh oh! I Thought of it first!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! No? not funny?

[BananaJones]

I dunno *thinks to himself "Should I laugh or not"*

Come back for a few posts and I'll finish my debate by then;)

[EvilNazi]

Originally posted by jones
Well we already know they'll be no nazis in it so thatsa given!

how do you know? Has someone said that? I have no idea about what is already known about indy 4, please tell me

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by EvilNazi
Originally posted by jones
Well we already know they'll be no nazis in it so thatsa given!

how do you know? Has someone said that? I have no idea about what is already known about indy 4, please tell me

I think jones may be speaking from a logical point of view. Since the story will take place in the 50's, WW2 was over for at least five years. The Third Reich was finished, and Nazism was finished too.

[EvilNazi]

Originally posted by BananaJones
Originally posted by EvilNazi
Originally posted by jones
Well we already know they'll be no nazis in it so thatsa given!

how do you know? Has someone said that? I have no idea about what is already known about indy 4, please tell me

I think jones may be speaking from a logical point of view. Since the story will take place in the 50's, WW2 was over for at least five years. The Third Reich was finished, and Nazism was finished too.

i know that, but is it for sure that the movie will take place in the 50's ?

[BananaJones]

Yup, Lucas, Speilberg and Ford has confirmed it.

[Wisconsin Jones]

I like the cold weather idea... as for what he should be after it should be religous Buddist, Muslum, Norse, or something. Otherwise he could be involved with something of great historical sugnificance now but was new in the '50 (yeah Space-race has been mentioned and that's all I can think of) Indiana Jones and the Search for Sputnik. Or perhaps he looses his hat... that would suck.

[00Kevin]

welcome to the raven Wisconsin Jones.

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by 00Kevin
welcome to the raven Wisconsin Jones.

yes, welcome to the Raven Bar Forum, Winconsin Jones. Kevin... Give him a pint on me.:)

[Wisconsin Jones]

Wh-Whiskey...

[bob]

Originally posted by Wisconsin Jones
I like the cold weather idea... as for what he should be after it should be religous Buddist, Muslum, Norse, or something. Otherwise he could be involved with something of great historical sugnificance now but was new in the '50 (yeah Space-race has been mentioned and that's all I can think of) Indiana Jones and the Search for Sputnik. Or perhaps he looses his hat... that would suck.

I think that anything is preferable to MORE desert, imagine a chase scene across Arctic conditions!, that would envigorate the whole sequence even if it was basicly a rehash of Raiders. But if there is anything iam aganist it is the artifacts that have some sort of modernity to them, something created with the lost knowledge of the ancients etc Indiana Jones artifacts should not need explaination they should be supernatural, simply inexplicable rather than something that could be recreated again in a few decades.

[Indy 4]

I think Indy will most likely be searching for the Garden of Eden, to maybe get the Flamming Sword or some of the fruit fom the Tree of Knowledge.
However some other artifacts thatwould be interesting for Indy to look for would be......

1.The Staff of Moses-Which turn into a snake, blossum into an almond tree, and make water come from the rocks, and part the Red Sea.
An adventure similar to the novel:Indiana Jones and the Secret of the Sphinx by Max Mccoy

2.Noah's Ark

3.Thor's Hammer-This would be good to have because the hammer would have the power of thunder and lightening, plus it puts Indy a whole new environment, the snowy north.

4.The Rhinegold-The powerful ring in Norse mythology that the Rhine Maidens had.

5.Atlantis-Although I highly doubt will ever see an ndy adventure featuring the lost continent, excpet on the PC game. It would make for a VERY good Indiana Jines film.

6.Chacopoyan Idol-Indy could possibly go after this artifact at the beginning of his new adventure, before setting off on his real quest.

These all I could think of for now.

[bob]

Originally posted by Indy 4
I think Indy will most likely be searching for the Garden of Eden, to maybe get the Flamming Sword or some of the fruit fom the Tree of Knowledge.
However some other artifacts thatwould be interesting for Indy to look for would be......

1.The Staff of Moses-Which turn into a snake, blossum into an almond tree, and make water come from the rocks, and part the Red Sea.
An adventure similar to the novel:Indiana Jones and the Secret of the Sphinx by Max Mccoy

2.Noah's Ark

3.Thor's Hammer-This would be good to have because the hammer would have the power of thunder and lightening, plus it puts Indy a whole new environment, the snowy north.

4.The Rhinegold-The powerful ring in Norse mythology that the Rhine Maidens had.

5.Atlantis-Although I highly doubt will ever see an ndy adventure featuring the lost continent, excpet on the PC game. It would make for a VERY good Indiana Jines film.

6.Chacopoyan Idol-Indy could possibly go after this artifact at the beginning of his new adventure, before setting off on his real quest.

These all I could think of for now.


I am not in favour of Norse artifacts as they are just too fantastical and Indy does not belong in a world of faries and elves
which Norse artifacts would entail.

I always favoured the Philosophers Stone or the Spear of Destiny but the Staff of Moses would be good but for me it lacks the iconic appearance of the Grail or the Ark.

I think the threat from the artifact may be something of a grand climax with some sort of apocylptic fervour around it, so Eden for me is most likely.

[Indy 4]

I favor the Garden of Eden idea as well. Just think how good they could make the Garden look like now with the CGI technology. Like you said it also would be good to have Indy dealing with an apocoloyptic situation.

[bob]

The Big problem with Eden is that it would be a CGI environment and not an artifact as such, as obviously there were no artifacts being made by just two people. Besides wouldnt Eden have sorta been blasted into oblivion along with everything else including all mountains etc by 6 mile deep water cascading down on it with the pressure of several fire hoses!.
Eden is far too much on the side of Literal Creationism and i fear that the film could be overshadowed by this issue.

[Attila the Professor]

Originally posted by Indy 4
I think Indy will most likely be searching for the Garden of Eden, to maybe get the Flamming Sword or some of the fruit fom the Tree of Knowledge.
However some other artifacts thatwould be interesting for Indy to look for would be......

1.The Staff of Moses-Which turn into a snake, blossum into an almond tree, and make water come from the rocks, and part the Red Sea.
An adventure similar to the novel:Indiana Jones and the Secret of the Sphinx by Max Mccoy

2.Noah's Ark

3.Thor's Hammer-This would be good to have because the hammer would have the power of thunder and lightening, plus it puts Indy a whole new environment, the snowy north.

4.The Rhinegold-The powerful ring in Norse mythology that the Rhine Maidens had.

5.Atlantis-Although I highly doubt will ever see an ndy adventure featuring the lost continent, excpet on the PC game. It would make for a VERY good Indiana Jines film.

6.Chacopoyan Idol-Indy could possibly go after this artifact at the beginning of his new adventure, before setting off on his real quest.

These all I could think of for now.

1. Staff of Moses - already in Secret of the Sphinx, and too close to the Ark of the Covenent besides.

2. Noah's Ark - Genesis Deluge, and the pitiful Sons of Darkness script

3. Thor's Hammer - this one sounds good - in the snow and such

4. The Rhinegold - people would say they were copying Lord of the Rings

5. Atlantis - in FoA, and people have a lot of different views on it - for example, the Disney movie Atlantis was not at all like Plato's version of the lost continent - everyone has their own concept of Atlantis, and the film could not possibly please everyone - also, Atlantis would work best with Nazis as the villians, considering how Himmler was so interested in it

6. Chacopoyan Idol - doesn't need to be revisited

[Indy 4]

Originally posted by Attila the Professor
Originally posted by Indy 4
I think Indy will most likely be searching for the Garden of Eden, to maybe get the Flamming Sword or some of the fruit fom the Tree of Knowledge.
However some other artifacts thatwould be interesting for Indy to look for would be......

1.The Staff of Moses-Which turn into a snake, blossum into an almond tree, and make water come from the rocks, and part the Red Sea.
An adventure similar to the novel:Indiana Jones and the Secret of the Sphinx by Max Mccoy

2.Noah's Ark

3.Thor's Hammer-This would be good to have because the hammer would have the power of thunder and lightening, plus it puts Indy a whole new environment, the snowy north.

4.The Rhinegold-The powerful ring in Norse mythology that the Rhine Maidens had.

5.Atlantis-Although I highly doubt will ever see an ndy adventure featuring the lost continent, excpet on the PC game. It would make for a VERY good Indiana Jines film.

6.Chacopoyan Idol-Indy could possibly go after this artifact at the beginning of his new adventure, before setting off on his real quest.

These all I could think of for now.

1. Staff of Moses - already in Secret of the Sphinx, and too close to the Ark of the Covenent besides.

2. Noah's Ark - Genesis Deluge, and the pitiful Sons of Darkness script

3. Thor's Hammer - this one sounds good - in the snow and such

4. The Rhinegold - people would say they were copying Lord of the Rings

5. Atlantis - in FoA, and people have a lot of different views on it - for example, the Disney movie Atlantis was not at all like Plato's version of the lost continent - everyone has their own concept of Atlantis, and the film could not possibly please everyone - also, Atlantis would work best with Nazis as the villians, considering how Himmler was so interested in it

6. Chacopoyan Idol - doesn't need to be revisited

The Garden of Eden could still work, if it is done right. The artifact could be the flamming sword.

Atlantis does sound good, but as you mentioned it has been MANY times in films already. Like the Disney Atlantis you mentioned, and Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea. I think Lucas and Spielberg want to be more orginal.

You are right in what you said about the Rhinegold, the public would assume it to be a copy off of Lord of the Rings.
Allo f these artifacts I mentioned were just ideas. I seriously doubt will ever see these featured in any Indiana Jones film.

If I were in charge of making Indiana Jones 4, I would no doubt use Thor's Hammer, and have the Soviets be the villans. Plus having Indy in a mountainous snowy environment would make were some great new scenes. I of course would title it: Indiana Jones and the Hammer of Thunder, wait I think I just came with a great new Indiana story to write! :D

[bob]

I just find Thors Hammer storyline a bit far fetched. Besides in using Norse Mythology you would be stuck in places like Norway, Sweden, Finland and maybe even (are you all sitting down) Canada!.

I think that indy should look for something iconic like the Grail or the Ark, that still has a wiff of plausibility about it otherwise it descends into Fantasy.

[jones]

Originally posted by Indy 4
I favor the Garden of Eden idea as well. Just think how good they could make the Garden look like now with the CGI technology. Like you said it also would be good to have Indy dealing with an apocoloyptic situation. NOOOOOO CGI!

[BananaJones]

Originally posted by bob
I just find Thors Hammer storyline a bit far fetched. Besides in using Norse Mythology you would be stuck in places like Norway, Sweden, Finland and maybe even (are you all sitting down) Canada!.

I think that indy should look for something iconic like the Grail or the Ark, that still has a wiff of plausibility about it otherwise it descends into Fantasy.

What's wrong with Canada???? I'm Canadian and I don't find that so shocking as you claim. And where does the Canadian connection to Thor's Hammer come from? As for Eden, it probably will happen since Spielberg expressed interest in Garden of Eden. Atlantis is a good idea, could make into a good Indy adventure.

[Indy 4]

Originally posted by BananaJones
Originally posted by bob
I just find Thors Hammer storyline a bit far fetched. Besides in using Norse Mythology you would be stuck in places like Norway, Sweden, Finland and maybe even (are you all sitting down) Canada!.

I think that indy should look for something iconic like the Grail or the Ark, that still has a wiff of plausibility about it otherwise it descends into Fantasy.

What's wrong with Canada???? I'm Canadian and I don't find that so shocking as you claim. And where does the Canadian connection to Thor's Hammer come from? As for Eden, it probably will happen since Spielberg expressed interest in Garden of Eden. Atlantis is a good idea, could make into a good Indy adventure.

If a adventure was made with Thor's Hammer. It would not delve into fantasy at all. Indy would simply be looking for the hammer, and not fighting the supposed elves or fairies. The countries could also vary, have him start out in a jungle or desert looking for another artifact. Then for his "real" quest for the hammer, he could go to Iceland, and Scandanvia. I'm sure an interesting story could be made with the Thor's Hammer idea. But I know will never see it in movie.

[Aaron H]

I will say this; from what I know, Eden is a very HIGH possiblity.

[westford]

Is this another of Aaron's cryptic clues? A HIGH possibility... On the top of a mountain? In the sky? Hmmm... ;) Or does Indy start experimenting with hallucinogenic substances? :eek:

Actually, it's funny that someone mentioned CGI, cos I was having a discussion about that with my boyfriend last week. He was talking about part of SW EpIII possibly being filmed in Tenerife, but then again it might be a blue screen with a CGI version of Tenerife... It got me thinking about Indy IV - will we be seeing the use of CGI to create the locations? Gonna take this to the locations thread I think... ;)

[bob]

I think personally that Eden is just too big for Indy to handle, it cant be Eden it would have to be an artifact assosiated with it...perhaps taken out of other mythology

[vornoff]

But Eden is a garden !!!!!!!

Why would an archeologist be interested in a garden.

[Attila the Professor]

Maybe if he were a botanist...

[bob]

Originally posted by Aaron H
I will say this; from what I know, Eden is a very HIGH possiblity.

No offence Aaron but could someone tell me how you actually know this when only a handful of people know?, it has just never been explained to me why or how you should know, someone explain please....

[jones]

I'll be fine with anything but Atlantis.

[Indy 4]

Atlantis is good, but has been used several times in movies. The Garden of Eden, I feel would be the best choice. Because it is an orginal idea, and there could be a unique artifact Indy could look for in the Garden. The three that could possibly come to mind are the Flamming Sword, Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge(Not an artifact, but a tree of "life" was used in the Monkey King script), and Adam's rib.
I think the villans will be probabley be the Soviets. Plus I think from reading the recent news sounds like Henry Jones Sr. will be back with Indy as well.

[bob]

I feel that the artifact in Indy IV should be iconic like the Grail or the Ark something that people know the story about, for Eden despite my best efforts I really cant find any artifact that Indy would go after without feeling like a Medevial Relic Maker (Nothing is obvious to me).

However i feel that Eden is by far the best idea that has been put forward despite my reservations, i just really dont like the idea of Indy going to Atlantis as it is a cliche, and would deal with Sci-Fi mumbo jumbo.

[jones]

yeh Atlantis wouldn't really feel like archeology eaither. I think that all of the scripts that we know of won't be the one Daraount is writing. So I wana be surprised.

[vornoff]

You know , it are the villians and their interests who decide the artifact and seeing as commies are atheist the idea of them going after Eden is ludicrous.

[bob]

I think that it is stupid getting the Soviets to go after a clearly religious artifact, and i also think that using eden is far too political.

I think that Eden if used should be used as an archatype from many different myths and legends i dont know maybe indy could say that it is known by many names, but it must have some use and a some sort of secular explaination.

[torao]

i personally don`t like this EDEN idea that much...it always remembers me in the monkey king script which...well..wasn`t THAAT bad but it wouldn`t work for me in a movie ya know!?

[bob]

Well GL is an infamous scavanger and the Monkey King script is one of the last bastion of largely unused ideas in the Indy Libary that we know of.

To be honest i do not like the idea of Eden in plot terms but it is the only name that excites me as much as the Grail or the Ark, come on Shangrilha the Spear of Destiny or even Atlantis, these do not have the iconic appeal of Eden. And let us remember that the Indy films dont like much exposition, we got 2 mins for Ark, almost nothing for Shankara Stone and a minute or so in LC, can complex things be explained in this amount of time really?, and the Ark, Shankara Stones and the Grail were relatively simple artifacts!

[Pale Horse]

Why does he have to find anything? We keep talking about something he has to "find" in the material world, isn't it possible that he has to "find" something similar to the "Illumination" his father found, something within himself?

[bob]

Originally posted by apalehorse
Why does he have to find anything? We keep talking about something he has to "find" in the material world, isn't it possible that he has to "find" something similar to the "Illumination" his father found, something within himself?

It wouldnt make a very good action film!, Indy at his house meditating.

[jones]

now that would be a movie

[Wisconsin Jones]

Sputnik!

[Attila the Professor]

Indy meditating - I know, it show Indy meditating in a bunch of different places he had been, and this would really open up the story for flashbacks, everyone wants to see Belloq, Marion, and the Ark again, and how about Elsa huh? Yeah, and then... ;)

[bob]

Originally posted by Attila the Professor
Indy meditating - I know, it show Indy meditating in a bunch of different places he had been, and this would really open up the story for flashbacks, everyone wants to see Belloq, Marion, and the Ark again, and how about Elsa huh? Yeah, and then... ;)

I think that that is probably what a large group of Indy fans would actually like: Indiana Jones and the Clip Show with all the secondary cast running into each others arms in slow motion at the end (they all coincidently come up behind Indy) and start singing its a small world after all.
Of course Toht and Vogel are reformed into loveable comic relief characters.
And Marion has settled down and goes to Church for Sewing lessons.
And Elsa can laugh about it all.

[illinois smith]

good ideas

[Attila the Professor]

Originally posted by bob
Originally posted by Attila the Professor
Indy meditating - I know, it show Indy meditating in a bunch of different places he had been, and this would really open up the story for flashbacks, everyone wants to see Belloq, Marion, and the Ark again, and how about Elsa huh? Yeah, and then... ;)

I think that that is probably what a large group of Indy fans would actually like: Indiana Jones and the Clip Show with all the secondary cast running into each others arms in slow motion at the end (they all coincidently come up behind Indy) and start singing its a small world after all.
Of course Toht and Vogel are reformed into loveable comic relief characters.
And Marion has settled down and goes to Church for Sewing lessons.
And Elsa can laugh about it all.

And then we get to see a bunch of other characters - Jack Shannon, Remy, Sophia - Corey Carrier, Sean Patrick Flannery, and George Hall come to talk to Harrison Ford and tell him about his past and future - then its like on of those scenes in a Rob MacGregor novel where Indy's life passes before his eyes...

[lucky charm]

Random Idea. I know you don't want a christian artifact, but what about the three nails used to crucify Jesus? I think that would be a new idea.

[Pale Horse]

Welcome to the Raven, ware paths kaross!

(it's an inside joke really)

What is the significance of the nails?

[bob]

Originally posted by lucky charm
Random Idea. I know you don't want a christian artifact, but what about the three nails used to crucify Jesus? I think that would be a new idea.

Interesting i have heard that some of them are supposed to have been integrated into the Spear of Destiny (although in recent tests they turned out to be 14th century copies)

[FAN]

Hey guy's.
Looks like you have a lot to say about it already, well I dont know what they could do. But the nails of Christ are a possibilty, in fact one of them was found by St.Helen and was set in an iron or metal crown for her son a emperor of either the Roman Empire or the Holy Roman Empire, at least that's how the legend goes. Ore the sword of Joan of Arc, when she bagain her campaign to drive the English out of France she was offered a sword, but she refused it. She told them that their was a sword that was at St. Catherine's that would be recognized for the 5 crosses it bor, and it was behind the altar. They sent a letter to the preist's and they started digging, before long they came to a chest and opened it, in their was a sword, and when they begain to clean the blade, the ancient rust fell of to reveal 5 crosses. She carried it with her to almost every battle, but one day it broke when she stroke a prostitute who woulden't leave camp with it's flat, and even though they tried it couldent ever be repaired. And since were on swords Excalibur is a possibilty, it was weilded by legendary King Arthur. Or what about ( since their talking about China ) some ancient artifact from China, that was a traditional inheritance of the Emperor, was stolen by a imperial survivor durring the revolution, put in a Budist Monastery, stolen again durring the Cultural Revolution, then some how was lost, ect . . . You guy's fight over it. FAN

[Patrick]

Ware path Karos? What the heck? No one welcomed me :(.

[Pale Horse]

I am sorry, Patrick, it's kind of a first post thing. You were so prolific there in the beginning, I couldn't catch you, but you should feel welcomed, you in the folds of our turbans now.

[FAN]

Dont Worry Patrick,
the fact that you can come in here and say what you wan't without having to be welcomed extra all the time means that you are now an official Ravener. When you go home after going say to the arcade or whatever you dont exspect people to say " Hello welcome home " do you? Same here unless you have been gone a long long time. FAN

[EvilDevo]

hey, good to see this thread still going strong after more than a year now. so what have we decided would be the best indy 4 artifact? how about we vote on it? heres some of your ideas:

1) spear of destiny

2) dead sea scrolls

3) excalibur

4) philosophers stone

5) moses' staff

6) atlantian artifact

7) artifact of eden

8) nails of the crucifixtion

9) noahs ark

10) fountain of youth

or... indy himself

personally... i think the spear, the nails, the staff, eden and the ark are all too biblical and repetetive of the first and third movies (especially noahs ark, as the titles might even be similar). the fountain of youth seems too much like the grail to me and atlantis was apparantly never going to be made into a movie... so im not gonna vote on those 2. however, something that seems interesting to me is excalibur. indy hasnt been in europe very much in the series, so i think locations there could be cool to see. also... thered be a lot of ancient castle exploration, in which indy could find hidden passages and face traps. the lady of the lake could offer some of the special supernatural effects at the end, and the sword itself would be really cool to see indy fight with. but at the same time, excalibur seems to phony... or not mysterious enough, as it is very well known. in any case... i would like to see indy searching for himself (like in last crusade, when hes really going after his dad, not just the grail) and whatever artifact is chosen for the search. so... out of the ideas that have been mentioned so far, i think excalibur would be the best... but i believe a better idea is out there that george and steven have planned for us. your thoughts?

[Pale Horse]

You forgot the Tree of Life ;)

[Attila the Professor]

Philosopher's Stone is the best bet, it seems to me.

[Indyologist]

According to the other 3 movies, the major find in the films had to meet certain "criteria":

1.) It could be something well known, but it doesn't necessarily have to be (I don't think anyone ever heard of Sankara stones before TOD).
2.) It has to possess some incredible power that ultimately could be used to control all of mankind.
"the army that carries the ark before it will be invincable"
"Kali Ma will rule the world"
"The armies of darkness will march over the face of the earth."
3.) The power of the object will ultimately kill the main antagonist and/or whomever sides with him.

As a side note, there is always also a "minor" artifact in each of the films, usually acquired then lost in the very beginning. Hope this stimulates some interesting conversation!

[Venture]

Maybe I've missed the post, but has anyone suggested the Golden Fleece from the Argonaut's exploits?

[jefferies]

Originally posted by Cain
Maybe I've missed the post, but has anyone suggested the Golden Fleece from the Argonaut's exploits?

OOO. Good one, I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but I like. The only problem I see with it is that the fleece's power (possibly amongst many, it's been a while so I don't remember) is the power to heal-rather similar to the Grail. I guess they could reason that since the Grail was lost they need to find something else that would do about the same thing, but whatever.

[Venture]

How about the Aegis, the indestructible breastplate used by both Zeus and Athena, to which the head of Medusa was attached? Not to dash the imaginations of all you "Clash of the Titans" fans out there...

[FAN]

I really think that they would go with something a bit more historic. Don't get me wrong I love greek mythology, you forgot to mention that Athena's breastplate was made out of goat's hair, the goat that nursed Zeus as a baby when his mother sent him secretly away to live with some nymphs on Crete,so his father the Titan Cronus would not swallow him hole like he had done to Zeus's other brother's and sister's, Hades, Hestia, Poisiden, Demeter, and Hera. But I think that they will go with something more of a Christiana Judao artifact. The reason's for this is that first of all it is consistant with Indy, secondly almost all the artifact's mentioned the grail, the ark, with the exception of the Sankara stones, were from Christian heretige. The Catholic Church dominated almost all of Europe for hundred's of years until the reformation in about the 1500's. In the year of 1500 you had catholic Spain, catholic England, Catholic France, Catholic Papal states and the Kingdoms of Savoy, and the two Sicilys. Greece was Greek Orthodox and so was Russia. You had Catholic this that and the other thing, so the Christian heretige was impressed very firmly into the heretege of most people in Europe. Hmmmm, And if it's in China, in the 50's, that would be a miracle. The day's of Mao, the betrayal of the Hundred Flower's Campaign in 1956 or 57 fallowed by the terrible Anti- rightest campaign, and the Great Leap forwad, but that was all in the late fifties early sixties. Hmmmm, still the days of Mao were terrible,
there was a supposed plot to take over China about 1952 by Chiang Kai Shek and his wife who with the rest of the nationalist government had fled to Taiwan. I don't think religous persecution had been that tight at the time. If it's in Europe, you have the Iron Curtian and the Communist block to deal with, the question we need to ask ourselves is what is behind the Iron or Bamboo Curtain that is so important that Indy need's to get, and why hasent the Communist's already descovered it? The Iron Curtain was born in 1918, the Communist bloc in 1945 or 46, the Bamboo Curtain in 1949, so what is so important that they just descovered it and are trying to get and how come the communist havent heard or descovered it before now? It's probably some legendary Russian object connected some how with the throne of Russia, and was believed to be lost or destroyed, and was just recently descovered that it wasn't destroyed that the Arch-bishop or whoever of the Greek Orthodox chuch in Russia probably hid it, and then with his last dying breathe told someone ( you pick, and since were going on fantasy I'll say that it's Indy's son )
that it was not destroyed. And he goes with Marion back to western Europe or something and Indy for some reason comes and the rest is history, I know your all tired of my babbling and going off on my own thought's and not giving up the son plot so I'll shut up now. FAN

[Venture]

Don't worry, FAN. Your rants are fascinating stuff.

[bob]

Great Post Fan (although please try to discover paragraphs!; it helps me!)

I dont think Indy should be sent into the communist world, there is no reason for him to do so. In the early 50's the Soviets had agents and unofficial alliances all over the world (i.e. Most South American Guerillas, much of the arab world) it really isnt a problem for Indy to take on Soviets/Chinaese outside of their countries or even the Iron Curtain etc for the same reason that Raiders did not need to take place in Germany.

The way that i am thinking for how the quest starts the Soviets take information from the Nazis at the end of WWII that puts them on a quest for artifact x

[Barryson Ford]

Originally posted by bob
The way that i am thinking for how the quest starts the Soviets take information from the Nazis at the end of WWII that puts them on a quest for artifact x

Thats what i think too ,

[Pale Horse]

Return of the Lost Ark :rolleyes:

[Venture]

Declaring the end from the beginning, eh? That would be most interesting. A coming around full-circle, so to speak. I like.

[FAN]

Well I'm not sure. It was differant for Raider's,
The Nazi's were trying to take over the world. The communist's on the other hand if they were taking place all over the world then wouldn't that be more of a James Bond thing? I have a strong feeling that Indy will go behind the Iron Curtain or Bamboo Curtain. FAN

[bob]

Well in a sense Fan Indy does owe a lot to the James Bond template but hell the idea of the globe trotting adventurer visiting distant lands with shadowy westerners working behind the scenes is hardly something new, it has been around as a genre in fiction since Imperialism in the 19th century! (it was a staple of the source material Indy was based on, and also reality at the time)

My main problem with Indy going Indy the motherlands is that they are so large and in all probability Indy wouldnt be getting out of there for the film, i mean Indy takes a trip to Moscow and he is thousands of miles away from the nearest interesting non-communist location (West Berlin in this case)

Also i am very uncomfortable about Indy going up aganist the Chinaese as for me it is a little too early historically and Indy would probably run right into the Korean War which is bad for Indy as he really should not be involved in real historical event, as firstly it reminds me too much of YIJ, secondly i really dont think the Indy films are qualified to become political other than Nazis are bad (Korea being a hot potato at the moment)

[FAN]

Perhaps, but we all know that the James Bond films started out as political films. And the fact that Korea actualy had little to do with China, in fact there was a great deal of compitition between the Iron and Bamboo Curtain country's as to wich was the more communist. Each claiming that China and Mao, or Russia and Stalin were the most communist. Perhaps he will have to go to the most communist country their was, Albania. Albania in fact was even more hard core then China or Russia. The Korean War will have to be involved some how because it was responsiblee a great deal for the Red Scare in the early 1950's in wich Indy IV will be involved. in fact the red scare was so far spread that even Lucy ( in case you don't know who I mean, I Love Lucy ) was accused of being a communist. The Red Scare was a time of terror in America, when the American government became a source of doemestic terror ( a fact they like to forget ) anyone in politics, Hollywood, or the military was a target for attack and it was spurred on by the Korean War. Secret trials and black list's were everywere. I wonder if Indy doesn't come under fire and is then blackmailed into going on a quest for Senator Mcarthy, the instigator and leader of all the doemestic terrorism. That would fit in well, the bad guys are the communist's and Indy forced to take side's not necassarly because he wants to but because the government forces him to. FAN and JC

[Attila the Professor]

McCarthy blackmails Indy...wow, I like that...that has potential.

Though I am extremely biased towards anti-McCarthy films...you know, allegories like High Noon, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Johnny Guitar, etc.

[FAN]

Not to start a political descussion but may I ask why?
Senator Macarthy was the one who started the secret trials
blacklist's, ect . . . he really did a lot of bad thing's
and started a principle of domestic spying and terrorism that has prevailed, really if you look at Amrican history it wasnt until the 1950's that people really started to fear the big brother system from their government, they never thought the gestapo or secret police system would come to America. It was Senator Macarthy that really brought all this to America. Yeah I thought Indy getting blackmailed might be cool. FAN and JC

[Attila the Professor]

Originally posted by FAN
Not to start a political descussion but may I ask why?


What's the question? (Rather, "why" in regards to what?)

[Bowas5]

I think That Indiana should go after ethier Excalibur or the Philosopher's Stone.

[bob]

Dont get me wrong i love the whole Mccarthy idea BUT is it really Indys postion to provide a social commentary on the 1950's - Indy is a character that for me has never really lived in the real world instead he has inhabited a 'Disneyland' vision of the 'pulp' 1930's

It is one thing to say that Indy IV will take place in the 50's it is another thing to say that Indy will be dragged into the real world - yes it would definately make a great examination of the character; but would it make a great crowd pleasing action movie? - it would be like James Bond taking part in the wars in the Balklans in the early 90's; out of step with the world of the character which is simply an oblique mirror held to the real world....

I think this must be considered at least before rushing into the vision of the disillusioned Indy which many people have built up (including me)

[Attila the Professor]

Bob seems to be right. As much as I like the idea of including McCarthy, it does take away something of the mysterious, in-the-shadows nature of Dr. Jones, even if he is a minor celebrity (according to the novels), and brings back into the YIJC idea of Indy interacting with and being of historical importance. True, he did meet Hitler in LC, but that was really played for laughs, and not for plot or philosophy, as in the YIJC, and also how McCarthy would have to be. Besides, there are still anti-Communist people who, I'm sure, believe that what McCarthy did was for the greater good.

It isn't his place...it's incredible intriguing, but it isn't his place.

[ajmorga]

I think a fake artifact would be a good idea, something from egypt maybe? When the three pyramids were first entered in recent history they were found to contain no artifacts whatsoever. it is a general concensus that the pyramids were raided by tomb robbers. but I recently read a theory with pretty convincing evidence that the pyramids were not meant to be tombs at all. basically it said if they had been tombs there is no possible way that they could have been raided to perfection no evidence of entry whatsoever. but also they contained no markings or decoration which is the norm in other tombs. so my idea is indy learns of an artifact existing in egyptian mythology. according to age old tradition, the pyramids were said to contain "instruments of iron and arms which rust not, and glasse which might be bended and yet not broken, and strange spells". There are also legends that spoke of huge stones being effortlessly levitated by priests or magicians through the utterance of "words of power". so he discovers the location of these spells perhaps the pyramids are just a stepping stone to the actual location of the spells. the russians also find out about these spells, perhaps through the use of a spy (although already done in the last crusade) This gives the classic desert/jungle location plus a magical artifact. perhaps instead of just spells the artifact cound be an amulet or a staff of some sort.

[WanderingSpy]

I'd rather there not be a fake artifact in the fourth film. There's too many legends, myths, and whatnot out there, so why waste time making one up? (Heh.) I have a few ideas for artifacts, take them for what they are worth:

1. Grugnir (Odin's spear)
2. Cadadeus (Hermes' staff)
3. Aegis (Perseus', Athene's, and Zeus' shield)
4. Mjolnir (Thor's Hammer)
5. Skin of the Nemean Lion
6. Golden Fleece (origin of the world's most expensive pullovers)

Those are just some ideas. Give them a thought.

[Pale Horse]

Golden Fleece...hmmmmmmm

[FAN]

No idea, but please nothing dumb.
FAN and JC

[Suzerain]

Hey, this is my first post, but I had a few thoughts about possible plot lines being discussed here, and on one not yet discussed.

As for the Arthur legend, and perhaps a quest to uncover the legendary sword, Excalibur, I think this could be problematic. In truth, there never was such a sword, nor any Camelot, these were just things that popped up in the legend by various writers. They are pure fantasy. There is much debate about whether there ever was an historical Arthur, though the best theory I've read and heard had it that the legend could have been based on an historical figure of Roman descent, Ambrosius Aurelianus.

In any event, Indy would probably go after a real historical artifact, though I suppose this is by no means obligatory. The Sankara stones, after all, were fictional. So, a made-up artifact is not beyond the pale.

I think it will probably have something to do with one of the major world religions, of which, Judaism, Hinduism (sort of), and Christianity have already been covered. One religion which has not been covered as of yet has been Islam.

In that case, I think that the what Indy will be chasing after will not be an artifact at all, but a person. I think a good possibility could be the Twelfth Imam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Mahdi), who at the funeral of the Eleventh Imam, supposedly vanishes into thin air, a boy who is only five years old. This Imam is kept hidden by God, supposedly, and thus would make it very hard to find him.

The plot could be about forces who are after the Imam and seek to control him for their own purposes, since he is also supposed to appear at the end of days.

This occurred to me as I was reading the article (http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=19382)you have linked on the front page of TheRaider.net, in which Lucas gives two valuable hints about the upcoming movie: 1) whatever it is is a MacGuffin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin); and 2) that upon hearing the idea, Ford and Spielberg thought it was too "connected", and they worried about how critics would react.

Well, connected to what? Perhaps it means too connected to contemporary events, and the world war going on right now. If so, the Twelfth Imam would certainly fit the bill. From the article, it certainly leads us to believe that the next story will be controversial.

But, that's probably just a bit too controversial.

[roundshort]

WOW welcome to the raider, that is a heck of a first post. Thanks for reading. I hope it is something a bit easier, but great read!

[Suzerain]

Thanks! I look forward to writing more!

[ClintonHammond]

"I think that the what Indy will be chasing after will not be an artifact at all, but a person"

So it'll be "Golden Child" meets "Jewel Of The Nile"?

*Gack*

LOL

[Pale Horse]

So, a made-up artifact is not beyond the pale.



Great, now I am an artifact. Wonderful.

Welcome to the Raven.

[Doc Savage]

Great, now I am an artifact. Wonderful.


Well, you've been here long enough, old friend.

"It belongs ina museum."

"So do you!" ;)

[Moedred]

Bravo Suzerian! Some Ravenites have suggested they diversify with some lost Islamic Macguffin, but we could never name one. If they use the 12th Imam, I would expect them to go whole hog with the Biblical end of the world too. The guy alone doesn't seem like enough. I too remember my disappointment hearing the "Jewel of the Nile" was some old dude. Who can turn a rock into a butterfly, woo hoo.

[Johnny Nys]

Has anyone seen this yet? (Apologies if it has already been posted somewhere I didn't see.)

http://www.helenair.com/articles/2003/01/14/national/a03011403_03.txt

Perhaps the controversy doesn't have anything to do with muslims, Islam, the Imam or anything like that. Perhaps it's about Jesus' bloodline. The "too connected" part might refer to the whole "Da Vinci Code" debacle.

To be honest, I'll be a bit disappointed if they went this way, because we've been overwhelmed with such storylines these last few years. It'll be pretty hard to get something fresh out of it. But who knows, they might do it.

[one9deuce]

But I wanted to point out that I think vornoff is right on the money. We know it's set in the 50's, and the space race definitely defines the 50's. And more importantly, it defined pop-culture in the 50's with sci-fi movies being so prevalent. And those were George Lucas' formative years. Lucas is definitely a scavenger also. How many unused ideas have we seen recycled into future installments of Indiana Jones AND Star Wars. Plenty. We know that Indiana Jones and the Saucermen from Mars is definitely an official Lucasfilm script that they didn't end up filming. It would take the series to a new place without any doubt. We'll know soon enough, assuming that they really ARE shooting next summer for a May 2008 release. Of course, nobody here will be holding their breath! I remember reading in a Lucasfilm Insider magazine from 1994 (that I still have) that said Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford were going to make another installment of Indiana Jones...... over 12 years later I'm still waiting! But that original motivation for a 4th film was what became the Saucermen from Mars screenplay. I just don't think Lucas has let that idea die.

[Moedred]

Welcome back, deuce!

This may be the topic for another thread, but since this is where I learned about the 12th Imam, I thought it appropriate to mention Ahmadinejad prayed for his return before the U.N. yesterday: "make us among his followers and among those who strive for his return." When? Soon! He envisions (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/10/AR2006051001791.html) "that Shiite Islam's long-hidden 12th Imam, or Mahdi, will soon emerge -- possibly at the mosque of Jamkaran -- to inaugurate the end of the world. The man who provided $20 million to prepare the shrine for that moment, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has reportedly told his cabinet that he expects the Mahdi to arrive within the next two years." :eek: What precedes this, is bloodshed.

Now there's a controversial, connected artifact...

[IrishLuck1980]

Excalibur. Nuff Said.

[Aaron H]

*cough*TreeofLife*cough*

[Rivers]

*cough*TreeofLife*cough*


I agree.
We all know that the rejected script was dealing with this theme. Just because they are re-writing the script doesnt mean they are changing the "macguffin"

[indyt]

I agree guys. I would love to see "Indiana Jones and The Eternal Garden" or Indiana Jones and The Tree of Life" Anything to do with the Garden of Eden.

[Gustav]

I wouldn't. I think they pursued that whole let's-have-something-dealing-with-eternal-life-because-Indy's-getting-old thing enough with the Holy Grail. Besides, isn't the Tree of Life being used in The Fountain?

I would be happy with Excalibur.

[Violet Indy]

Garden of Life for me... Though I think something to do with Buddhism would be pretty cool too.

[Moedred]

Eternal youth and innocence is what the Tree of Life promises. There are many more avenues to explore here. As much as I pick on David Koepp, remember he wrote "Death Becomes Her" and can put a fresh twist on the theme. (I consider this the best zombie movie ever... take that, horror fans.)