Marion Ravenwood

[Canyon]

Do you guys think that Indy and Marion should get back together in Indy 4?

I think it would be cool if maybe Indy has a love interest at first, then perhaps it doesn't work out and Indy ends up resuming his relationship with Marion.

What do you guys think?

[bob]

I' am pleased to see someone is actually posting on this forum again it has been a slow week.....

I personally am not in favour of Indy getting together with Marion again the film has a lot of issues to resolve with Indy and i dont see the point of ressurecting her so she can do exactly the same as she did in Raiders or for there to be an ultra-cheesey marraige montage at the end. Also seeing Marion again would not mean much to most people who will actually see the film. I may be being a little ageist but you need someone young to be Indys love interest if it has been in the template shown by Willy/Elsa/Marion.

I dont see Marion giving Indy a third chance i mean he deserted her in 20's, then presumably in 36. However my bet is on Marion having Indys child maybe back from the 20's....

[Gregoire Defence]

I like Marion, but I do not really want them to get back together.
Well, I really have no objectons.
Indy's baby girl, needs a momma:D

[Attila the Professor]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOO!

Sorry about that, but the fact is, I was reading a bunch of the Marvel Indy comics last night, and they show me one thing that I already knew, and just support it further. Marion and Indy do not belong together! They have nothing in common I tell you, nothing, except perhaps a common role model in Abner. People make too big a deal over the Ravenwoods! Fedora is not Abner - Abner is not a grave robber, the University of Chicago never would have let him teach there if he ever was (they wouldn't let Indy teach there because of the Founding Fathers Day incident). By extension, it is illogical for Marion to be that important. Alright, so she's the first. Fact is, all the good Indy girls are redheads - Sophia, Alecia, Diedre, Gale, Nancy Stratemeyer. There's no way they had a lasting relationship. Implausible.

[Indy Canuck]

Well, I don't know, Atilla, if the reaction need be THAT harsh, but to keep in tune with the Spirit of Indy, we need something DIFFERENT. The three movies aspired to be different from each other, why make the fourth a cheesy self-referring fanatic-pleasing sequel?

The universe of Indy is not the Universe of Star Wars. Not everyone is related, not everybody knows everybody. We need a different adventure, we need a different plot, and we need different characters.

Indy is supposed to keep on truckn'. I don't see the guy EVER really being tied down. As much as he tries, he can't seem to escape his nature: things happen to him, he just keeps trudging through it.

[bob]

Could someone tell me what is supposed to be so special about Marion that she deserves to be dragged all the way through another adventure, i found her a little annoying in Raiders to be honest. True she does have a link with Indys past but on that logic any of the girls he has met and had a relationship with from 1914 onwards deserves to be in it..... i think marions story has been told her role in Indy IV would give her a prominance that the status of Indy girl simply could not accomodate and would compliacte the film too much.

[vaxer]

If Marion&Indy aka RC was still coming here we all know what she'd say!!!

[monkey]

Should Marion come back?

It all depends on what kind of movie you want.

From reading all of the posts on this forum I get the feel that there is quite a number of diverse viewpoints on what kind of movie people want.

There's like a range that goes all the way from "sentimental, Sappy, vehicle for a re-union of the old cast members"........all the way to "New actor playing Indiana Jones with all new cast members and fresh plot ideas."

I don't know, find your place in this range, and then ask yourself 'Could Marion fit?' and more importantly 'Do we need her?'.

[Whipper]

It's too easy to just invent a new leading-lady character with Marion-ish qualities for a beautiful new Indy Girl actress if they want that. Indy goes thru women much like Bond...a new fabulous babe for each film. (And of course the Young Indy Chronicles were no different in that regard...there was an abundance of quality hotties.)

To bring Karen Allen back as the leading lady goes against the general Hollywood grain...the double-standard is that cool old dudes like Connery and Ford in big pictures still get the young lady costars--not bimbettes, mind you, but glamourous women in their late 20s to late 30s Prime. I have no idea how old Karen would be now, and I haven't seen her in some time, but I doubt she's as cute as she was 20 years ago, and she's also not married to Steven Spielberg. Marion is a cameo at Best, along with Willie for certain, IF there are going to Be such old-flame cameos for auld lang syne's sake.

[Canyon]

Woah! I didn't expect to get quite that reaction but upon reading your posts, I get where you're coming from.

Please understand, I don't want to see some cheesy marriage/reunion etc, where everyone knows everyone else. I have just always been of the opinion that Indy and Marion were very well suited for each other and I would at least like her to be mentioned in the next film, even if it is a cameo similar to Willie Scott's.

See my post on the following thread: http://www.theraider.net/theraven/showthread.php?threadid=3152

[thefumegator]

Originally posted by Indy Canuck
Indy is supposed to keep on truckin'... things happen to him, he just keeps trudging through it.

That defines the character of Indiana Jones so perfectly that adding to it would serve no purpose.

Cheers,
;) Wes :D

[Attila the Professor]

Originally posted by thefumegator
Originally posted by Indy Canuck
Indy is supposed to keep on truckin'... things happen to him, he just keeps trudging through it.

That defines the character of Indiana Jones so perfectly that adding to it would serve no purpose.

Cheers,
;) Wes :D

And yet...someone does. :D j/k

[Aaron H]

Hmmm, an interesting question, that begs others:
What would happen if Marion and Willie showed up to Indy's wedding? What would happen if Marion and Willie showed up to Indy's wedding with his kids? What would happen if Marion and Willie showed up to Indy's wedding with his kids and then leave them with him?

[Col. Musgrove]

I do hope you're joking, Aaron. That's kind of scary, coming from someone in the loop.

[00Kevin]

well, I would hope marion would be back in indy 4, but we probubly arn't that lucky, as long as george doesn't listen to Aaron, I think I'll be happy :D

[bob]

Originally posted by Aaron H
What would happen if Marion and Willie showed up to Indy's wedding? What would happen if Marion and Willie showed up to Indy's wedding with his kids? What would happen if Marion and Willie showed up to Indy's wedding with his kids and then leave them with him?


a flop

[Gregoire Defence]

Absoultly right bob.

[Attila the Professor]

Quite

[Broomhandle Davis]

...bring her back and forget the bimbo-of-the-month.

"The Thin Man" did just fine with a male and female team as did a hundred or so other book series, movies, and TV shows.

She's got the right stuff. Forget the novels produced factory-style by a whole bunch of different guys under the same pseudonym, they establish absolutely no precedent. The movie continuity is the only thing that dictates.

Marion had Moxie.

There are alot of pretty faces out there, but how many will cover your back with a frying pan?

[Attila the Professor]

Originally posted by Broomhandle Davis
...bring her back and forget the bimbo-of-the-month.

"The Thin Man" did just fine with a male and female team as did a hundred or so other book series, movies, and TV shows.

She's got the right stuff. Forget the novels produced factory-style by a whole bunch of different guys under the same pseudonym, they establish absolutely no precedent. The movie continuity is the only thing that dictates.

Marion had Moxie.

There are alot of pretty faces out there, but how many will cover your back with a frying pan?

The Thin Man! Now I have nothing against The Thin Man series, enjoyable characters and all, but there is no comparison to be made - Indy hearkens back to characters like, to use another Dashiel Hammett character, Sam Spade, with another woman every time - you didn't see him going on more cases with Mary Astor or his secretary or his partner's wife, did you? You say the movie continuity is the only thing that dictates, are we only counting Raiders here, because we have no mention whatsoever of Marion in Temple of Doom and Last Crusade. Besides, I doubt Indy had very much tolerance for hard-drinking, bad-tempered, bar-running, back-stabbing Miss Ravenwood (no offense of course, Willie and Elsa had one each of these as well, and one was a Nazi and the other sang in a nightclub), daughter of a somewhat significant figure in his life.

Besides, Raiders of the Lost Ark does not need to be worshipped in Indy IV.

[Broomhandle Davis]

Originally posted by Attila the Professor
The Thin Man! Now I have nothing against The Thin Man series, enjoyable characters and all, but there is no comparison to be made - Indy hearkens back to characters like, to use another Dashiel Hammett character, Sam Spade, with another woman every time - you didn't see him going on more cases with Mary Astor or his secretary or his partner's wife, did you? You say the movie continuity is the only thing that dictates, are we only counting Raiders here, because we have no mention whatsoever of Marion in Temple of Doom and Last Crusade. Besides, I doubt Indy had very much tolerance for hard-drinking, bad-tempered, bar-running, back-stabbing Miss Ravenwood (no offense of course, Willie and Elsa had one each of these as well, and one was a Nazi and the other sang in a nightclub), daughter of a somewhat significant figure in his life.

Besides, Raiders of the Lost Ark does not need to be worshipped in Indy IV. [/B]

Oh yeah? So the gloves are off, are they?

Well, okay, I think she's cute and spunky.

So There.

And she showed more character than the other two. And I don't remember any back stabbing at all. Did I go out for popcorn then?

And Sam Spade (well, Humphrey Bogart really) did okay sharing an adventure with Catherine Hepburn in the "African Queen." One of his best movies. "The sort of thing dreams are made of."

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 12-08-2002 at 09:07 pm]

[Attila the Professor]

Well, the more character thing may be true. I didn't care for here character, but that's my (and others here as well) problem, isn't it. The back-stabbing was referring to not letting Indy know she had the headpiece to the staff of Ra (I needed to have a hyphenated word to have a nice list of rants - It's my nature when ranting - back-stabbing was a bit harsh, but I sacrificed accuracy in favor of rhetoric).

Naturally, you're right about "The African Queen", but that was a one time adventure, and they're weren't any other films with Charlie Allnut. It was "the stuff that dreams are made of," I agree.

I still don't like Marion though. Cute and spunky, but Indy favors women with intelligence.

It was...a misunderstanding.

[Broomhandle Davis]

Originally posted by Attila the Professor
Well, the more character thing may be true. I didn't care for here character, but that's my (and others here as well) problem, isn't it. The back-stabbing was referring to not letting Indy know she had the headpiece to the staff of Ra (I needed to have a hyphenated word to have a nice list of rants - It's my nature when ranting - back-stabbing was a bit harsh, but I sacrificed accuracy in favor of rhetoric).

Naturally, you're right about "The African Queen", but that was a one time adventure, and they're weren't any other films with Charlie Allnut. It was "the stuff that dreams are made of," I agree.

I still don't like Marion though. Cute and spunky, but Indy favors women with intelligence.

It was...a misunderstanding.

I thought I'd spent my whole life proving that (that someone could be cute and spunky and intelligent).

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 12-21-2002 at 09:18 am]

[bob]

Well i suppose the recent news about Marion being a soundbite has given a kick in the teeth to those who want/believe she will return as main love interest! unless of course it is an extremely long heart felt soundbite!

(Its nice to finally be able to have some facts rather than speculation for a change and to put the nail in the coffin of some of them)

[littledavid2]

I think Marion is the better developed and interesting female carachter of the trilogy and seeing her coming back with a major role in the fourth installment would be great.
Her story with Indy is the most believable and deep, the others seems to be just occasional sex.
On one side I would like to see someone new, on the other side I think Marion's return would be very interesting and and a chance to develop Indy's carachter dealing with the past.

[Broomhandle Davis]

Originally posted by littledavid2
I think Marion is the better developed and interesting female carachter of the trilogy and seeing her coming back with a major role in the fourth installment would be great.
Her story with Indy is the most believable and deep, the others seems to be just occasional sex.
On one side I would like to see someone new, on the other side I think Marion's return would be very interesting and and a chance to develop Indy's carachter dealing with the past.

Right on target, Little David. The others are eye-candy (no complaints), but Marion has more, she is supportive not simply ornamental.

[andrew]

Originally posted by bob
Could someone tell me what is supposed to be so special about Marion that she deserves to be dragged all the way through another adventure, i found her a little annoying in Raiders to be honest.

i MOST DEFINITELY agree. i didn't really like marion. she got on my nerves. she struck me as a severe alcoholic who didn't even have a nice personality!

[swords]

Actually I think it would set a new precedent for a action hero. It would make it seem more realistic too, like Indy realizes that it is immature to engage in countless love affairs, and his true feelings these past 15 years have always been for Marion. It would certainly make James Bond look shallow in his approach towards women.

[Attila the Professor]

It would also make Lucas and Spielberg seem sappy in their approach to film-making...

[swords]

Thats true, but isn't Indy suppose to be a well rounded, complex character? It would certainly add to it.

[Attila the Professor]

Trust me, there's enough they can put into Indy IV to make him a complex character.

[Edited by Attila the Professor on 01-08-2003 at 04:54 am]

[Broomhandle Davis]

Andrew, now what poem or song does your ditty go with?

Up from the rack in the middle of the night,
I'll make a head call and I'm ready to fight.
Grease gun, K-bar by my side,
These are the tools that make men die!
Up from a sub sixty feet below
When we hit the surface we're ready to go!
Side stroke, back stroke, swim to the shore,
When we hit the beach we're ready for war!

Now here's one your probably not familiar with sung to the tune of "O Christmas Tree"

Marines drowning if the waves,
It's UDT that always saves,
All though they say there first ashore,
UDT's been there before.
And other things that they can't do,
it's UDT that pulls them through,
Oh leathernecks on bended knee,
come kiss the *** of UDT!

Hmmm, better mention Indiana Jones in this post so it won't be considered off topic the worst crime know to man.

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 12-21-2002 at 08:49 pm]

[Broomhandle Davis]

Originally posted by swords
Actually I think it would set a new precedent for a action hero. It would make it seem more realistic too, like Indy realizes that it is immature to engage in countless love affairs, and his true feelings these past 15 years have always been for Marion. It would certainly make James Bond look shallow in his approach towards women.

Actually countless love affairs were the new precedent. The old heroes were either celibate or loyal. Does no one remember Davey Crockett and Polly?

[bob]

Originally posted by Broomhandle Davis
Marines drowning if the waves,
It's UDT that always saves,
All though they say there first ashore,
UDT's been there before.
And other things that they can't do,
it's UDT that pulls them through,
Oh leathernecks on bended knee,
come kiss the *** of UDT!


[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 12-21-2002 at 08:49 pm]

Hmmmm could someone explain to me what this has to do with anything to do with Marion, i know i have been away for a while but seesh.........

[Adam McDaniel]

Personally, I think Marion's return would not only be welcome, but ideal for the film. It gives the characters more of a backstory and adds a dramatic weight to the characters.

I strongly am against the idea of Indy having a twenty-something love interest. It was fine back when the character was in his late thirties, even early forties, but now that Ford is over 60, it would be more believable (and much more interesting) for Indy to be paired with someone middle aged.

Middle aged women are sexy! (Look at Rene Russo for heaven's sake! Katherine Ross, Susan Sarandon, and Rachel Welch were also sexy long after 40...)

Karen Allen still looks beautiful, and Marion was by far the best partner Indy ever had. She was tough, independent, yet vulnerable in a feminine way.

Marion's return, though, shouldn't simply be a retread of their witty banter in RAIDERS. Over 20 years have past, and -- a fact people seem to forget -- PEOPLE CHANGE. The characters should change, too -- as should their interaction and relationship.

Frankly, I'd much prefer to have Allen as a central character than merely a cameo. The latter scenario would, I think, somehow cheapen her.

[Broomhandle Davis]

Famke Janssen, she's in, what, almost her forties?

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 01-08-2003 at 08:40 am]

[Attila the Professor]

I still don't agree. We don't need Marion to return.

[Canyon]

From the person who originally started this thread,
it's nice to see that some people are agreeing with me.

Bring Marion back. She was definately the most well developed love interest for Indy and I totally agree
with swords, Indy realising that he has always been in love with Marion. I think that there is a chance that
it could work.

[Raffey]

Originally posted by Attila the Professor
I still don't agree. We don't need Marion to return.

I vote the same! In fact, leave ALL his ex-girlfriends out of the new film.

[Adam McDaniel]

I'm surprized to find so many people who didn't like Marion. She was the clear fan favorite for many years, and I sorely missed her in the other two films.

"Marion was a backstabber..." -- No she was not.

Remember, at the opening of RAIDERS, Marion is resentful because Indy walked out on their relationship ten years earlier. He was 28, and SHE WAS 15 -- something that would have placed Indy in jail nowadays. To boot, Indy had an affair with the daughter of his mentor, Abner, whom he had entrusted with the care of his daughter....something that more than qualifies as justified resentment on her part.

And so, after 10 years, Marion has ended up broke, stranded in the middle of nowhere, and without a father. The original script and novel elaborate on what happened to her: she worked at the Raven Bar ("and NOT as the bartender!" she states) upon her father's death, and inherited it when the previous owner went crazy.

One can speculate that was Marion not only forced into working in a rather lewd career to survive (stripper? prostitute?), but maybe, MAYBE, there were more dire circumstances in her relationship with Indy. Examine this:

"I was a child! I was in love! It was wrong and you knew it!" and "Do you know what you did to me? To my life?"

Perhaps it's a stretch, but had Marion become pregnant by Indy? Who knows...

Also, when Marion says "You're not the man I knew 10 years ago," it suggests that our intrepid hero may have been less than heroic during his youth. Maybe he was thoughtless...maybe he was cruel. Surely RAIDERS suggests that Indy was once a far cry from the nice boy scout the YIJC and books made him out to be. Indy, after all, betrayed his mentor's trust by taking sexual advantage of his child.

But the point is, in the Raven Bar, Marion's anger towards Indy is completely justified. Why SHOULD she surrender the headpiece so quickly to a man who hurt her so much when she was so young?

Also note that she doesn't punch him at first. His reappearance overwhelms her, and she tries to cover up her emotions.

But then comes the breaking point: Indy says that the REAL reason why he's there is not out of concern for her, but merely because he wants her father's headpiece. It all adds insult to injury; Abner abused his daughter by dragging her around the world to satisfy his obsessions, and now Indy is treating her like a pitstop.

There's a brief contemplative moment for Marion in RAIDERS when she takes out the headpiece... It seems to be a symbol of her suffering, yet it is also a treasured memento of her late father, and parting with it would be tough.

When Marion is confronted by Belloq, she maintains her silence as to Indy's whereabouts and plans, adding she has "no loyalty to Jones" as a ploy against her captor. That she does this even AFTER Indy had abandoned her in the tent just hours before is a testament to her heroic resolve.

Marion is not a throwaway character. She was tough because she had to be, was forced to be, and she probably would have been very different had she not suffered those circumstances. (It's also safe to say she, like Indy, lost her mother while very young.) I think many years after the events of RAIDERS, living a good life in the states, her temperament would improve... And even if their romantic relationship in RAIDERS came to an end, Marion and Indy probably parted as friends.



[Edited by Adam McDaniel on 01-08-2003 at 02:32 pm]

[Raffey]

Nice post. Good history of Indy and Marion.

However, I suspect that Indy was younger than 27 perhaps in his very early twenties (he graduated from the University of Chicago in 1920 (--Age 21(?)-- and went to graduate school sometime afterward) when he first met Marion and known her for some time before the falling out with her father.

Still, a grad student and a professor's young teenage daughter was a scandal in their time as well as now.

However, in Raiders, Indiana did not give the impression that he longed for her nor was he apprehensive about seeing her or her father again.

Indy seemed only mildly remorseful when he found out Abner had died if he showed any remorse at all.

Indy was indeed sorry for what he had done to them both but he could only say it so many times.

Indy was right up front with Marion that he was there only for the headpiece and was willing to pay cash for it.

He was actually surprised that Marion would insist that he wait an extra night before he could get the headpiece from her.

Later on, I agree, that Marion did grow on Indy as he still cared for her.

But in the Last Crusade it obvious that Indy is still single. In fact, he was hitting on Elsa before you could say, "Ah, Venice." Not something a person typically does with a long lost love looming over his heart.

The only female I think Indiana will need is either his daughter, an assisant, or a disposeable Elsa-like character.

[Adam McDaniel]

<<<I suspect that Indy was younger than 27 perhaps in his very early twenties (he graduated from the University of Chicago in 1920 (--Age 21(?)-- and went to graduate school sometime afterward) when he first met Marion and known her for some time before the falling out with her father. >>>

The script and the novel state Indy is 38 and Marion 25 in 1936. The affair (and falling out) happened 10 years before...do the math. (And if it happened any earlier than 1926, Marion wouldn't even have been a teenager!)

It's likely Indy studied under Abner while in grad school, AFTER college. (It DOES take time to earn a PhD!) This would also make him at the University of Chicago (if he did both BA and masters, etc) in his mid to late 20's.

<<<However, in Raiders, Indiana did not give the impression that he longed for her nor was he apprehensive about seeing her or her father again.

Indy seemed VERY apprehensive. Remember his conversation with Marcus?

[swords]

I was in support of the arguement that Marion should return opposite to Indy in Indy 4. I believe, however, that Marion as well as Willie are only going to be making cameo appearences. The reports say that a bunch of Indy's girlfriends are going to show up for just a brief moment, confronting Indy (imagine if they did this for James Bond? You would need a gymnasium to fit all the girls into one without them spilling out of the windows! :D)

By the way, I have a little complaint: Aren't cameo appearences suppose to be a surprise? Why does SS always mentions this every time he is confronted with Indy 4 questions? I find that a little odd....

...Anyway, cameo or supporting role, I will welcome Marion regardless of either.

[Raffey]

The novel may mention Indy's and Marion's age but I don't remember the script ever stating it.

I don't much buy into the novelizations and such but in the realms of the expanded Indy universe, Jones and Abner first met in the latter months of 1926. Which would make Jones 37 (born July 1899; I did the math) and Marion 15.

Sometime in 1927, Jones left the father and daughter to pursue Noah's Ark. Which means Indiana had known Marion roughly less than a year in the time that he 'ruined her life.'

That, IMHO, only implies that our favorite playboy archeologist struck again and loved and left yet another young lady in the midsts of adventure--just as he has done in the three films.

It doesn't make Marion anymore or less special. If Marion is brought back for a cameo, Willie should be too and why not throw in a shot of Elsa to haunt our hero while we're at it! :D :D

[Indy 4]

Originally posted by Raffey
Originally posted by Attila the Professor
I still don't agree. We don't need Marion to return.

I vote the same! In fact, leave ALL his ex-girlfriends out of the new film.

I'm all for that! At least Willie is just there for a cameo. However, I bet she will have a little surprise in store for him during her brief appearance.:D

[AnnaJones]

Just to add my 2 cents.

Realistically, I don't think Indy and Marion would end up together- But also, I remember reading somewhere that Marion had an abortion at some point, after becoming pregnant by Indy (?) can anyone else confirm or deny this?? I distinctly remember reading this somewhere...

Cinematically, it would not work to bring back Karen Allen either, at least for anything more than a quick Cameo...but even that would just kind of be wasting the character.
That is my problem really, with bringing any of Indy's past love interests back...is that, the whole 'Bond' formula *works* in these kind of movies, wheras, bringing the old balls and chains back well...not so much.

[Broomhandle Davis]

Originally posted by AnnaJones
...bringing the old balls and chains back well...


Old ball and chain? How could Marion be a "ball and chain" when there was no longstanding relationship? If they'd never quite connected how could Marion be a continuing millstone around Indiana's neck.

Marion by far and away interacted most constructively with Dr. Jones. And who needs the Bond formula?

I mean how far can double entendres and weird heroine names go? No farther than one series surely? Perhaps Indy and Marion's lives cross and crisscross (and perhaps those of a few others)like a double helix.

Remember the Maverick TV series? Probably not...Symantha would slip in and out of the series to bedazzle Brent Maverick and swindle him. They were made for each other...but you knew their could be no conventional ties.

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 02-06-2003 at 07:23 pm]

[swords]

Whether you like it or not, Indiana Jones is essentially James Bond in a fedora. If you boil down to it. The whole idea was concieved from Bond, really, and the same type of formula is there. Spielberg wanted to do James Bond, but instead, ended up doing RotLA.

[Broomhandle Davis]

Originally posted by swords
Whether you like it or not, Indiana Jones is essentially James Bond in a fedora. If you boil down to it. The whole idea was concieved from Bond, really, and the same type of formula is there. Spielberg wanted to do James Bond, but instead, ended up doing RotLA.



I beg to differ. He is an anti-Bond. He has fears (snakes), he has a family, he never get anyone into bed. The villains are not weird megalo-maniacs with quirky henchmen who are only semi-human. There is no conspicuous wealth, no casinos, no expensive or muscular cars, and no fine wines. There are no gadgets. There is no high-tech. There is no support team or Q. The heroines have normal names, that do not make people smirk.

The closest we get I think is the girl with "I Love You" on her eyelids, a victim of unrequited love, who is sort of in her way like Moneypenny.

Again, Jones (even his name and nickname are ordinary) is the anti-Bond and everyman. He is a low tech guy more familiar to the audience in a sweaty workshirt than a tux (yes, I know he wore one in Temple of Doom).

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 02-06-2003 at 08:40 pm]

[swords]

I agree as well. Everything you have mentioned makes Indy unique. I was just trying to say overall, it's still the same type of bondish formula(Well, excluding the fancy cars): The pre-story was adopted to Indiana Jones, the different Indy woman in each film, the romance, the action. Sure, they are seen in other countless films, but the Indy movies are more in the mold of James Bond, then lets say, Clear and Present Danger(another Ford flick if you know).

It's kind of like a distant cousin, in that regard...

[Indy 4]

Originally posted by Broomhandle Davis
Originally posted by swords
Whether you like it or not, Indiana Jones is essentially James Bond in a fedora. If you boil down to it. The whole idea was concieved from Bond, really, and the same type of formula is there. Spielberg wanted to do James Bond, but instead, ended up doing RotLA.



I beg to differ. He is an anti-Bond. He has fears (snakes), he has a family, he never get anyone into bed. The villains are not weird megalo-maniacs with quirky henchmen who are only semi-human. There is no conspicuous wealth, no casinos, no expensive or muscular cars, and no fine wines. There are no gadgets. There is no high-tech. There is no support team or Q. The heroines have normal names, that do not make people smirk.

The closest we get I think is the girl with "I Love You" on her eyelids, a victim of unrequited love, who is sort of in her way like Moneypenny.

Again, Jones (even his name and nickname are ordinary) is the anti-Bond and everyman. He is a low tech guy more familiar to the audience in a sweaty workshirt than a tux (yes, I know he wore one in Temple of Doom).

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 02-06-2003 at 08:40 pm]

Swords and Broom both of you present good points. Indy partially came out of Bond. As Speilberg once quoted,"Indiana Jones is essitentially James Bond, without the hardware."
Yet, Indy is also different in many ways from Bond. He can get hurt, does not always get the girl. And like you mentioned Broom he does have a fear of snakes. Unlike Bond who pratically fears nothing. Also he does not take on "Megalo-Maniacs" as Broom said.
But Indiana Jones does indeed have some Bond orgins.

[swords]

Originally posted by temple of john
I personally would very much like to see them back together. Even better if they once again pursue an artifact of biblical signifigance. I thought that marion had, by far, the most deceptive side about her and was the most intresting woman Indy had had. Willie was a vassar girl who lacked any ability to kick ass and the same bode true with Elsa. marion was one of the few that could actually help Indy in a scrum. I'm all for it!!! Do we really think thats what Lucas has in mind?

I think if he did it, it would be more to please Indy fans. But since we are more of a cult, compared to Star Wars fans, it would be unlikely. Im sure the regular day citizen has watched the trilogy before, but are not fanatical about it, the same way Star Wars and LotR's fans are of their movies. Besides this board, are there even any other boards which discusses Indiana Jones(besides Indyfan)? Oh, and besides the Indygear message boards?

So there is not much opinion, besides ours and a few others, who wish for Marion to come back.

[andrew]

NO! please, not Her! and she'd better not have indy's child either. . .

[Raffey]

Originally posted by George Lucas
I hated the character Marion. She is only going to be in Indy 4 long enough for Steven and I to kill her off!

There! See! George has spoken! :D :D

[Broomhandle Davis]

Originally posted by George Lucas
I hated the character Marion. She is only going to be in Indy 4 long enough for Steven and I to kill her off!

Originally posted by Steven Spielberg
That's not true! George was always wrong about Marion. He was always better on special effects than he was on characterization. Jar Jar was his idea.

Marion provided the je ne sais qua we needed for the flick to be a success. I have to say Broomhandle is right on this one...as usual. I always value his insights.

There! See! Steven has spoken! And of course, he agrees with me.

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 02-07-2003 at 11:54 am]

[Aaron H]

Originally posted by George Lucas
I hated the character Marion. She is only going to be in Indy 4 long enough for Steven and I to kill her off!

Originally posted by Steven Spielberg
[B]That's not true! George was always wrong about Marion. He was always better on special effects than he was on characterization. Jar Jar was his idea.

Marion provided the je ne sais qua we needed for the flick to be a success. I have to say Broomhandle is right on this one...as usual. I always value his insights.

Originally posted by Harrison Ford
Working with Karen was one of the best times of my life, acting wise. I would love the opportunity to work with her again. Then there is Kate, well she was a great kisser...on camera I mean...but she was nothing like Karen acting skills wise. Personally, I don't care if they find a new girl or bring back Karen. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if both Steven and George get their way and I have both a new girl and Karen in the film.

There you have it, input from all of the Big Three. Maybe Karen or Kate have something to say about this topic too?

[Edited by Aaron H on 02-07-2003 at 07:07 pm]

[Attila the Professor]

Well, that was a very bold statement for Aaron to make, don't you think? ;)

[Leia Organa Solo]

Originally posted by swords
Whether you like it or not, Indiana Jones is essentially James Bond in a fedora.

I call it math!

Bond - spy + archeologist + fedora + whip = Indy

[Aaron H]

Originally posted by Attila the Professor
Well, that was a very bold statement for Aaron to make, don't you think? ;)

Yeah, well I'm too lazy to edit it out.;)

[Alf]

Oh please...

I just hope Indy 4 will be different(like ToD). Marion already had her 5 minutes of glory...next


I kinda miss her tho... :)

[Indyologist]

I just hope to God that Indy and Marion get together & are married in the next film. I can't think of anyone else who would be good for Indy and if it turns out to be some other woman, I'm going to be VERY upset!! :mad:
I'm sure they would have a kind of tempestous marriage, but they would love each other deeply. Besides, what married couple has never argued anyway?

[00Kevin]

Originally posted by Indyologist
I just hope to God that Indy and Marion get together & are married in the next film. I can't think of anyone else who would be good for Indy and if it turns out to be some other woman, I'm going to be VERY upset!! :mad:
I'm sure they would have a kind of tempestous marriage, but they would love each other deeply. Besides, what married couple has never argued anyway?


I agree with you, marion and indy are a match







other buisness;

Early in this thread, Attila said that he read some old Marvel indy comics and they proved to him that indy + marion don't get along, but my friend, you must remember:

THOSE COMICS SUCK, no one even counts them as a real part of the indy saga! they did not go perfectly with the rest of the indy saga, they were too dark and false, no way anyone can judge anyone or anything from those comics!

[NileQT87]

indy and marion are the only way to go. they are more than just flavor of the week. by the 50s theyll have known each other for almost 30 years!

[Attila the Professor]

Originally posted by 00Kevin
other buisness;

Early in this thread, Attila said that he read some old Marvel indy comics and they proved to him that indy + marion don't get along, but my friend, you must remember:

THOSE COMICS SUCK, no one even counts them as a real part of the indy saga! they did not go perfectly with the rest of the indy saga, they were too dark and false, no way anyone can judge anyone or anything from those comics!

Well, you make a good point, however...

People often cite Marion as being a well-rounded character...this is true, except when you consider that she is essentially a stereotype...the woman with a past...just as Willie is the stereotypical damsel-in-distress and Elsa is the stereotypical femme fatale. This is not a bad thing. As we all should recall by now, the Indiana Jones series is a paean to the old 1930's adventure serials and other such things, like pulp novels...this is what they had...a series of stereotypical women or just one woman, like with Roy Rogers and Dale Evans. Indy has already been shown to be the first type - a Don Juan.

[Indy&HanFan]

i guess you guys got what you wanted. it's funny to look at these old threads

[Agent Spalko]

The funny thing about it is that The Adventures of Indiana Jones comics are still better than Skull.

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/further-adventures-of-indiana-jones/8-1.jpg

[The Drifter]

The funny thing about it is that The Adventures of Indiana Jones comics are still better than Skull.

Eighteen words! You're getting better! :gun:

[Agent Spalko]

http://www.theaterhopper.com/vault/071112.jpg

[|ZiR|]

Oh my. So edgy.

[eshine]

http://www.theaterhopper.com/vault/071112.jpg
give
me
a
break

[michael]

http://www.theaterhopper.com/vault/071112.jpg
Call me crazy...but I don't get it.:confused:

[IndyAndMarion]

I am soooooooooooooooo glad that they got married, I cried!!!!!:whip:

[graz]

I am soooooooooooooooo glad that they got married, I cried!!!!!:whip:


It was a beautiful thing - there are some hard hearted souls on here though! ;)

[eshine]

Call me crazy...but I don't get it.:confused:
You're not crazy - it's just not funny.

[Silentrascal]

http://www.theaterhopper.com/vault/071112.jpg


Ok.....so where exactly is the humor supposed to be in that?

[Dr. Wolfwood]

I suspect the humour is _supposed_ to be in the fact that Indy 4 made the fans so mad that they are dangerous to be around - or at least the fellow passenger thinks so...

Not that humorous, though...

[Sankara]

Indy is "out of Character" in "Skull" and so is Marion. Maybe this is one of the reasons why the mayority thinks that skull is the worst of the Indy-Movies...

[eshine]

I suspect the humour is _supposed_ to be in the fact that Indy 4 made the fans so mad that they are dangerous to be around - or at least the fellow passenger thinks so...

Not that humorous, though...
It's really not - I mean, even the kid in the comic looks stupid.

He looks like every other crying fanboi who posted a rant on YouTube.

I cannot believe this film has had such a negetive impact on teenage boys and their 30 something fathers - LOL

[Jonesy9906753]

http://www.theaterhopper.com/vault/071112.jpg
Haha Spalko that pictures awesome,why do alot of people think you and resident alien are trolls and "not indy fans"? seems to me you guys just state the facts about indy 4 and it's countless faults and then people say you cant have that opinion.

[Bjorn Heimdall]

Bad, like 99% of webcomics (at least those that get posted on message boards, I'm sure there are some good ones out there).

[muttjones]

http://www.theaterhopper.com/vault/071112.jpg

is the guy on the right meant to be Shia LaBeouf? Cos then it would make sense.

[nitzsche]

Why don't people get this?

The kid is a fanboy angry that Shia is in Indy 4. He's taking his griping to the next level and actually wants to harm Shia. The guy next to him realizes the kid is crazy and so switches seats.

[The Man]

Why don't people get this?

The kid is a fanboy angry that Shia is in Indy 4. He's taking his griping to the next level and actually wants to harm Shia. The guy next to him realizes the kid is crazy and so switches seats.

And this was before he saw the movie...

[muttjones]

Why don't people get this?

The kid is a fanboy angry that Shia is in Indy 4. He's taking his griping to the next level and actually wants to harm Shia. The guy next to him realizes the kid is crazy and so switches seats.

the way it is phrased it makes it sounds like the guy is saying that the fact that Shia is shooting on location in Mexico is his torture.


But your idea seems to make sense.

[nitzsche]

Mutt says Marion was worried about Ox who had sent her a strange letter from Peru that worried her so she went down to find him. She discovered he had gone missing, and while looking for him she talked to Mutt regularly, but then got captured by Spalko. Spalko decided to let Marion escape to mail a letter and Ox's clues to Mutt, telling him to find Professor Jones. The Russians knew Indy would be able to decipher Ox's clues and put them back on the trail to finding the Skull.

So I am assuming Ox reached out to Marion first instead of Indy because he and Indy had some sort of falling out?

[Violet]

Yes, that's right. It's explained in the truck scene with Mutt and Marion and Marion says that because Indy dumped her a week before the wedding, Ox hated that Indy had dumped her and decided not to keep in contact with Indy because he felt sorry for Marion.

[Dr. Wolfwood]

Why don't people get this?

The kid is a fanboy angry that Shia is in Indy 4. He's taking his griping to the next level and actually wants to harm Shia. The guy next to him realizes the kid is crazy and so switches seats.

Yup, that much is clear, but it isn't really funny, is it? :confused:

[Benraianajones]

Nah, and to be honest web comics never really are.

And on topic, about Marion. I do like her, I like all the Indy girls. I don't mind a such they got together in the end, but...it seemed a bit forced. They knew Marion was popular and from the much loved original. "Get her back in it, make their love rekindle (again)" and seemed a bit, like I say forced.

Also, out of the Indy girls we know. Elsa, she is dead. Willie and Indy were always just a "one nighter" in the love side of things if you ask me, and then just friends due to their shared adventure. Marion was the only one with any kind of serious love history with Indiana, so they kind of HAD to choose her, again kind of contributing to the forced feel. Indy even says with Marion there has been many more women in his life - only thing is we never saw any, so wouldn't have felt convinced at all if it wasn't Marion.

Though I can accept it did occur, there isn't anything I can do to alter it.

[Stoo]

Indy even says with Marion there has been many more women in his life - only thing is we never saw any,Sure we did. He had a long list of ladies in "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles".;)

[Crack that whip]

Indeed, though of course all those interests preceded the beginning of his long, off-and-on-again relationship with Marion. I imagine he never saw any of those particular girls / women again after first meeting Marion in his twenties and her teens, with the obvious exception of Vicky Prentiss (who I think of as The Other great love of his life).

That said, given these tendencies of his we see throughout both the TV show and the movies, I think it's safe to say he probably had many, many other fleeting love interests in the years between Raiders and Kingdom, and we just haven't seen them all (and if we count the comics, games, etc., we have seen some).

[Stoo]

Indeed, though of course all those interests preceded the beginning of his long, off-and-on-again relationship with Marion. I imagine he never saw any of those particular girls / women again after first meeting Marion in his twenties and her teens, with the obvious exception of Vicky Prentiss (who I think of as The Other great love of his life).I agree, although he does see 2 others again but will save that for the Young Indy board. (Don't want to hijack the thread.)
Anyway, of them all, Maria (from "Transylvania/Masks of Evil) could be the first to fit into the "lot of Marys" category.

That said, given these tendencies of his we see throughout both the TV show and the movies, I think it's safe to say he probably had many, many other fleeting love interests in the years between Raiders and Kingdom, and we just haven't seen them all (and if we count the comics, games, etc., we have seen some).Absolutely. I didn't really care for Marion's inclusion in "Skull". It ran hot & cold.
The Marvel comics are a much more rewarding source if people are interested in
more Indy & Marion stories/dynamics.

[Crack that whip]

Absolutely. I didn't really care for Marion's inclusion in "Skull". It ran hot & cold.

That's too bad. :( I was delighted by it, myself. I'd agree her scenes (or the movie in general) didn't have quite the same snap as in Raiders of the Lost Ark, but that's a pretty damn high standard, and one I never expected this new movie to meet. It still brought me a lot of joy to see Marion again, especially given the ending - so many female love interests for male action-adventure heroes in these sorts of series are viewed as essentially interchangeable and disposable that having one return at all (especially since this particular character was brought back because she's so widely acknowledged as a great one) is really one more thing to set the Indy series apart from lesser ones, IMHO. ;)

The Marvel comics are a much more rewarding source if people are interested in more Indy & Marion stories/dynamics.

Mmm... I don't know about that. They're definitely fun, but even back in the day I didn't get quite as much from the relationship's depiction as I wanted, and these days I'm not even sure how well they fit in the canon, though admittedly it's been a while since I read them. They are entertaining, though, and I had a lot of fun reading them back in the day (I even had a subscription).

[nitzsche]

Marion leaping from the truck to the jeep was a pleasure to watch as well.

[Marionfan706]

To me, Marion is a role model. Sure she is trying to struggle along, but that shows determination. She has class, she just has this facade of being tough and putting up a barrier.:)

[Marionfan706]

...bring her back and forget the bimbo-of-the-month.

"The Thin Man" did just fine with a male and female team as did a hundred or so other book series, movies, and TV shows.

She's got the right stuff. Forget the novels produced factory-style by a whole bunch of different guys under the same pseudonym, they establish absolutely no precedent. The movie continuity is the only thing that dictates.

Marion had Moxie.

There are alot of pretty faces out there, but how many will cover your back with a frying pan?
I completely agree with this ! It wouldnt be fun without Marion:gun:

[Benraianajones]

One of my fave scenes from CS with Marion in, is actully a simple one. Where near the Crystal Skull room she says whislt looking at a mural on the wall: "More worshippers?" - She seemed like Marion from Raiders there, and showed interest in a discovery, I think it is a bit of a shame we didn't see her doing a bit more of this.

[Niteshade007]

I think this might be the appropriate place to bring up the discussion...

I am curious about the "missing years" in Marion's life, from her early relationship with Indy to her raising of Mutt. The Marion in Raiders is working, but is she someone who works because she has to, or because she wants to? I mean, when she came back to the states with Indy, what did she do? Shortly after the Monopoly game came out, I believe it was Violet Indy who questioned whether "Artie's Diner" was owned by Marion. I thought that would have made sense, having her once again working behind the counter. After KotCS came out, of course, I realized that it wouldn't have fit into the movie at all, but I am curious as to what it is she did with her life. I can't see her sitting at home all day cleaning, but then again, it's not as if she loved her job in Nepal, and perhaps she welcomed the change.

It might have been interesting to see Marion on YIJC, and actually might have made me want to watch them, but apparently they were canceled before they got to it, or they just never planned on getting around to it. Also, I know they could not refer to former love interests in the books, but I think a story on how Indy and Marion met (and how they ended) would be very interesting.

But, perhaps after explained, it leave me feeling a little disappointed, and its not as if her life raising Mutt could be that interesting that it would be written down, so it's probably one of those things we'll never know.

[graz]

One day, someone should write a novel about Marion Ravenwood's life. It would make for quite an entertaining tale..:hat:

[The Man]

One day, someone should write a novel about Marion Ravenwood's life. It would make for quite an entertaining tale..:hat:

Her life in print?

http://www.faithmouse.com/heath_ledger_as_the_joker_1.jpg
"...Ahh, haa-haa-haa. Ooh, and I thought my jokes were bad."

[graz]

OK - ungentlemanly jokes about the ageing process of the lovely Karen Allen aside, Marion Ravenwood I think has had an interesting life.

[The Man]

OK - ungentlemanly jokes about the ageing process of the lovely Karen Allen aside, Marion Ravenwood I think has had an interesting life.

Oh, I'm biting to know what 'happened' between the late thirties and the late fifties. Drugs? Demonic possession? David Koepp?*






*I also think that Allen looks fine. But, alas, when attacking a target, there will be casualties. Mercy is not an option...

[graz]

Oh, I'm biting to know what 'happened' between the late thirties and the late fifties. Drugs? Demonic possession? David Koepp?*






*I also think that Allen looks fine. But, alas, when attacking a target, there will be casualties. Mercy is not an option...

Of course you are, I know it and you know it! :hat:

[MaxPhactor23]

Somewhere along the line Karen Allen saw Hayden Christenson’s work on Star Wars and realized that she doesn’t need to put in effort to be hired on a George Lucas project.

[The Man]

Somewhere along the line Karen Allen saw Hayden Christenson’s work on Star Wars and realized that she doesn’t need to put in effort to be hired on a George Lucas project.

http://www.durham21.co.uk/images/2001-2002/epiphany/924/hayden_christensen6.jpg
"Screw this dialogue! Let's f*ck..."

[MaxPhactor23]

http://www.durham21.co.uk/images/2001-2002/epiphany/924/hayden_christensen6.jpg
"Screw this dialogue! Let's f*ck..."

HAH! Man...I can't even half blame him. :up:

[HovitosKing]

To me, Marion is a role model. Sure she is trying to struggle along, but that shows determination. She has class, she just has this facade of being tough and putting up a barrier.:)

Well, according to the Raiders novelization she has a sordid past. She was a prostitute in Nepal. That explains her tough facade and interpersonal barriers later on in life.

[The Man]

Well, according to the Raiders novelization she has a sordid past. She was a prostitute in Nepal. That explains her tough facade and interpersonal barriers later on in life.

A lady of the night?! Wow!

[Stoo]

Well, according to the Raiders novelization she has a sordid past. She was a prostitute in Nepal. That explains her tough facade and interpersonal barriers later on in life.At the AFI Tribute to Steven Spielberg, K.Allen said that when she initially met him at the audition,
his first question was, "How well can you spit?" I should YouTube the clip.

[The Golden Idol]

At the AFI Tribute to Steven Spielberg, K.Allen said that when she initially met him at the audition,
his first question was, "How well can you spit?" I should YouTube the clip.

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54azCgFI5XE

[Stoo]

You rock, TheGoldenIdol!:up: It's at the 2:00 mark if anyone wants to cut to the chase. Heartfelt speech.

[The Golden Idol]

In truth, I don't fully understand why Spielberg asked Karen how well she can spit. Can someone explain?

[Stoo]

In truth, I don't fully understand why Spielberg asked Karen how well she can spit. Can someone explain?Because classy dames don't do that type of thing! (Apologies to the ladies for the use of the word "dames".
It was just a nod to the '30s. Could've used "broad"!)

Spitting isn't a socially looked down upon in certain parts of the Eastern world which is where Marion's backstory lay.
(Ex. When Beijing started preparing for the Oylmpics, the public was being told there will be NO spitting in public.)

If Karen could "spit like soldier" she was contender for the role. I've often wondered if she actually did
or just simply answered the question.

[Cagefighterkip]

Well, according to the Raiders novelization she has a sordid past. She was a prostitute in Nepal. That explains her tough facade and interpersonal barriers later on in life.

WHAT THE HELL???

marion??? marion??? was a... she was a... HOOKER? omg that... wow. no words.... no words...

:O

[Violet]

WHAT THE HELL???

marion??? marion??? was a... she was a... HOOKER? omg that... wow. no words.... no words...

:O

Only according to the novelisation, if you interpret it that way. If you take the novel as gospel word. Mind you, it probably would have been so when it was Indy Noir and just Raiders as a movie, but now.... it isn't written anywhere else and until it is confirmed by another source other than just the novel, I personally don't take it that way. And even so, the "virgin" remarks and the kiss in the Raven bar were replaced completely, which tells me that perhaps Spielberg didn't really like the idea and it isn't obvious or mentioned in the film itself, which again tells me that they may have had second thoughts and decided that a prostitute past wouldn't be suitable and wasn't necessary. And it isn't necessary. Marion being dragged to Nepal with a father going crazy and owning the bar is enough.

[Cagefighterkip]

Only according to the novelisation, if you interpret it that way. If you take the novel as gospel word. Mind you, it probably would have been so when it was Indy Noir and just Raiders as a movie, but now.... it isn't written anywhere else and until it is confirmed by another source other than just the novel, I personally don't take it that way. And even so, the "virgin" remarks and the kiss in the Raven bar were replaced completely, which tells me that perhaps Spielberg didn't really like the idea and it isn't obvious or mentioned in the film itself, which again tells me that they may have had second thoughts and decided that a prostitute past wouldn't be suitable and wasn't necessary. And it isn't necessary. Marion being dragged to Nepal with a father going crazy and owning the bar is enough.
yeah,
l know but still just hearing it is shocking...

[Attila the Professor]

The line is "I worked here, and I wasn't the bartender," or something darned close. It's not gospel, but it might as well be true. It's a much more interesting story, anyhow. The scene might have gotten a little long with the material in (also, they surely wanted to save the kiss for the big love scene on the Bantu Wind), but it wasn't bad, character-wise.

[WillKill4Food]

The line is "I worked here, and I wasn't the bartender," or something darned close. It's not gospel, but it might as well be true. It's a much more interesting story, anyhow. The scene might have gotten a little long with the material in (also, they surely wanted to save the kiss for the big love scene on the Bantu Wind), but it wasn't bad, character-wise.
I've not read any novelizations (except for KotCS) or comics, nor have I seen many YIJC shows (sorry, the films are about it for me :o ) so I've always wondered:
Was there ever an explanation of what Indy did to make Marion and Abner so angry? Of course, I have my own ideas, but was there ever a frank explanation of what made them split?

[Attila the Professor]

Not that I know of, but I'm not schooled in the Marvel comics which, while not deserving of canon status by most reports, do have Marion and I think even Abner in them. My extrapolation is mostly that Indy was involved with Marion when he was Abner's grad student and she was young, 15 or 16 most estimates seem to suggest. Abner was presumably upset when he found out, evidently turning his back on his protege. Marion would likely have been caught in the middle more than anything, and Indy likely a) gave in without any apparent fight to Abner after Abner told him off in some way. Marion would have expected him to fight for her/them, and so developed her own resentments against Indy. (Perhaps she also feels that if Indy had stayed with Abner, he wouldn't have gone off on wild goose chases and died in the snows of Nepal ,or that if Indy had stayed with her, she wouldn't have been dragged along and wound up as bartender (or worse) in a crummy dive. Apart from that, of course, she really loved him, or at least while young thought she did pretty strongly, and felt abandoned by Indy and betrayed by her father. That's the simplest rendition I've got that fits in with what we know, anyhow.

[WillKill4Food]

Okay, thanks. I was just wondering.

[Stoo]

I've not read any novelizations (except for KotCS) or comics, nor have I seen many YIJC shows (sorry, the films are about it for me ) so I've always wondered:
Was there ever an explanation of what Indy did to make Marion and Abner so angry? Of course, I have my own ideas, but was there ever a frank explanation of what made them split?No. It is THE great enigma of Indylore.

Not that I know of, but I'm not schooled in the Marvel comics which, while not deserving of canon status by most reports, do have Marion and I think even Abner in them.Yes, "Abner" is in a 2-parter but you never see his face.
My extrapolation is mostly that Indy was involved with Marion when he was Abner's grad student and she was young, 15 or 16 most estimates seem to suggest. Abner was presumably upset when he found out, evidently turning his back on his protege.I've always interpreted the situation as Abner became resentful towards Indy for walking out on his daughter/breaking her heart.
Leading Marion on at such an impressionable age and then giving her the dump (and Abner, himself, as a result) would have hurt
more than finding out about the hanky-panky. (Having been in a similar situation, I can relate.):o Abner may have begrundingly
accepted their relationship at first but one can picture Doc Ravenwood actually welcoming it if Indy was serious.
(Indy might have even received "the talk" from dad.)

"Who says I haven't?" (settled down with some nice girl and raised kids)
"I do! Dad had you figured out a long time ago."
&
"He loved you like a son. It took a hell of a lot for you to alienate him."
"Not much. Just you."

It appears the honus is on Indy and not ol' Ab.:eek:

[Forbidden Eye]

LOL!

I read this thread from the beginning thinking this thread was just one created last year jumping in with the hype, only to find out this thread was created before the Indy films were released on DVD!

After reading Attila's posts from way back when and thinking about the issue, it would've been more interesting to see Lucas' original Indy 4 draft and have different girl interested in archeology in both Mutt's and Marion's place and then have Indy marry her(making her a red-head would've also been very interesting :up: ).

Now I enjoyed seeing Marion in KOTCS, the problem with her is that she never seemed to share any interest in history or archeology like her father, which prevents her from being a perfect match for Indy.

*sigh* As much as I loved KOTCS, it's hard to look back and not admit the best idea would've been just to make Indy 4 years earlier.