Devil's advocate thread: I hate Indy

[Attila the Professor]

Here's something. I, and anyone else who wishes to, is going to play devil's advocate. By that I mean, I am going to act against Indy, and speak against Indy, to see how things go. Please though, only speak for one side, the devil's advocate, or the Indy fans. I'll start it off.


DA: You know what movies are really bad? Those Indiana Jones movies, you know? Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. How can anybody watch those movies? There's nothing to them! There isn't any theme! How can you have a movie without a theme?

[Edited by Attila the Professor on 02-22-2003 at 05:33 pm]

[Pale Horse]

I have to agree wity you, I mean COME ON! You expect me to believe that the Nazis, with all of their horros and the documented autrocity of 6 MILLION murders can't capture one man and kill him!

[Attila the Professor]

I know! He's only one guy! Sure, Rambo could do that, but look at that guy! He teaches college! Can't they make up their mind? Does he fight Nazis and cults or does he teach a bunch of wide-eyed college kids?

[Pale Horse]

Personally, I was disapointed with how the "Sacrafice" scene was played out in ToD. Willard Huyck and George Lucas have dropped the ball in their attempt at 'advancing action'. Come to think of it, so did Douglas Slocombe. All the red in the scene foreshadows intense action. The key being action. The whole scene slowly evolves over 17+ agonizing min. That is HORRIBLE screenwriting! To top it off, there is no release or climax as a result of all that build up...what gives?

[swords]

And don't even get me started on the banquet scene: Snake surprise? Beatles? Eyeball soup? MONKEY brains?! GL needs research lessons. India was never meant to be exploited like that, this isn't the views of the British.

And speaking of ToD, where the heck was the plot? What happened to the Judeo/Christian background? Why weren't there any Nazis?! They totally neglected the formula set by Raiders.



[Edited by swords on 02-23-2003 at 09:20 pm]

[swords]

Originally posted by swords
And don't even get me started on the banquet scene: Snake surprise? Beatles? Eyeball soup? MONKEY brains?! GL needs research lessons. India was never meant to be exploited like that, this isn't the views of the British.

And speaking of ToD, where the heck was the plot? What happened to the Judeo/Christian background? Why weren't there any Nazis?! They totally neglected the formula set by Raiders.

Actually, Im kind of favoring Raiders here, when we are supposed to be bashing everything about the trilogy, right? Maybe I should be in favour of Indy? but anyway, continue...

[Pale Horse]

Raiders? RAIDERS! Well now that you bring it up, THANK GOODNESS Ghandi won best picture in 1981. I can't even believe the acadamy would consider such a movie for Best Picture. What's with the one dimensional characterization. I mean, doesn't this "Indy" guy want anything more then some gold box. I don't get it. Especially if you believe opening the box will kill you. I would want to get as far away from something like that myself. But NOOO. This movie has the idiot actually pursuing it. And don't get me started on the director. What with all the low angle wide shots. Forcing the dramatic effect onto the viewer is just another way of Hollywood insiders slapping the audience in the face by saying, "We know are stuff is bad, but maybe we can fool you all by hiding it with 'dramatic' camera angels and improbable stunts."

[Edited by apalehorse on 11-11-2003 at 07:39 am]

[Canyon]

One guy? Yep, that's right. Indy is one guy but it's his uniqueness which means he wins through. And how does he do this? Why, by being the worlds greatest adventurer of course!!!

And why is he the worlds greatest adventurer? Cos, he does not have super human powers like Buffy, Batman or Spiderman and he does not use silly gadgets like that James Bond guy. He uses his wits, fists and sometimes even manages to talk his way out of situations, and not forgetting the fact that he puts himself at great personal risk to find treasures so that they can be displayed in a museum for everyone to see. Now if that doesn't make a guy a hero, then I don't know what does!

And Indy, an idiot? I mean, what are you guys even thinking!!! Indy has a PhD in Archaeology, has a great deal of knowledge about rituals and customs, speaks and reads a dozen languags and has an encyclopedic knowledge of the past, AND he manages to get the time to pass his fantastic knowledge onto arcaeology students. I mean, talk about devotion. This guy is fantastic!!!!!

And now to Temple. What do you guys want? A sequel or prequel EXACTLY like Raiders?!? I think it was very brave for the big three to do what they did, and try to explore another side of the Indy universe. I mean, isnt this what Indy's world is about; ancient rituals and customs!?! Okay, so maybe the banquet scene is a little OTT but, c'mon it was fun; and the scene directly after? (Well, speaking from a woman's point of view *SWOON*!!!)

And lastly, Indy is the bravest, greatest, most heroic, fantastic, adventurous character out there (not to mention the best looking!!!) Drool!

[Pale Horse]

OH My GOSH Canyon. I don't mean to disagree. But do you really think any archeologist looks like that. I would say the only thing the trilogy got right was the look of an archeologist. And that was in Sean Connery's character. And I have watched too many Discovery Channel episodes to believe the only scar on an adveturer is on the bottom of a chin. He is much to 'beefcake' if you will to even be believeable in the absurd role.

[Attila the Professor]

Hmm...I'm not surprised. Seems someone's perception of those "films" is influenced by some Stallone imitator.

[Magda]

I believe playing devil's advocate is Raffey's job. :p Besides, I always thought Marion Ravenwood was the devil. :p

[Edited by Ameera on 02-24-2003 at 04:35 pm]

[indyfreak]

The Indiana Jones trilogy contains three of the best movies I've ever seen. Sure, it's got some weak points (though VERY few). Nothing's perfect. But Dr. Jones is sure one hell of a hero - if you don't mind my saying - and can whoop anybody's butt anyday! What more are you asking for!? Plus, he can pull of being un-geeky (another non-existent word. Huzzah!) and still be a college professor, can turn one of the 'dullest' jobs in the world (I'm not saying archaeology isn't exciting, but it doesn't exactly thrill the socks off most people) into the coolest thing ever, and still have time left over to save the girl (or two, or three....)

Would you rather watch some crappy-sappy run of the mill love story? Another one of those silly movies only good for a two-bit chuckle (and even then they make you sick before the first half hour)? Please people! :p

[Indy 4]

:eek:
Whats up with all this Indy bashing? First Indy gay threads and now this!? Come on were all Indy fans here! We know the Indiana Jones triology are the best movies ever made. So lets quit the bashing!:D :D
But if this is meant to be a Indy complaint thread, here is a complaint. Why does Marcus go from being fairly smart in Raiders, to a bumbling idiot in Last Crusade? :D

[Edited by Indy 4 on 02-24-2003 at 07:53 pm]

[Canyon]

Originally posted by apalehorse
OH My GOSH Canyon. I don't mean to disagree. But do you really think any archeologist looks like that. I would say the only thing the trilogy got right was the look of an archeologist. And that was in Sean Connery's character. And I have watched too many Discovery Channel episodes to believe the only scar on an adveturer is on the bottom of a chin. He is much to 'beefcake' if you will to even be believeable in the absurd role.

...tends to Indy's injuries (I wish!!!) :D


That's okay apalehorse, I thought that was the whole point of this absurd thread! :D

Okay, your 'usual' Archaeologist doesn't normally look like Indy does, but, hey Indy's not just any old Archaeologist now is he?! You see, the whole point of the Indy universe is that, yes, it is exciting and adventurous and those of you who jumped in on the side of the Devil's Advocate should be downright ashamed of yourselves! :eek:

As Henry would say. "Intolerable!" :(

[swords]

I thought this thread was the pursuit of irony?

Because what do SS and GL hope to accomplish with a character made human? Sure, let's make him afraid of snakes, lets make him have relationship problems, and while we are at it, let's make the main villian a very human character too. Ya sure...

I prefer my heroes to be courageous fellows, morally right, no shady past, just straight up good. I don't want the villians conversing with the hero, pointing out how similiar they are. I don't want the hero to show pain in a fight.

If you are going to use the Saturday matinee serial formula, then follow it precisely, thoroughly, accurately. SS and GL need research lessons...

[Edited by swords on 02-25-2003 at 11:39 am]

[fatima]

Indyfreak and Canyon in my opinion the posts from here are just to make believe, they are not serious, it's like IF someone who doesn't like Indy would argue...right?

[Canyon]

Originally posted by fatima
Indyfreak and Canyon in my opinion the posts from here are just to make believe, they are not serious, it's like IF someone who doesn't like Indy would argue...right?

Yeah, I know. Just couldn't help myself by jumping on Indy's side (can't seem to apose him even if it is in jest) :D

[fatima]

Originally posted by Canyon
Originally posted by fatima


Yeah, I know. Just couldn't help myself by jumping on Indy's side (can't seem to apose him even if it is in jest) :D

I KNOW well what you are talking about about! I also get pissed myself if instead of jest they are serious!!! :mad:

[Attila the Professor]

Some people just don't understand...oh well, disregard this everyone, if you feel like it...us devil's advocates didn't do so well anyway, I'm afraid. Fanatics are difficult enemies.

That reminds me of that one old member who had the quote about debate and something or other...hmm...

[indyfreak]

lol. I found it quite humorous, myself!

[fatima]

No,no,no please keep going with your devil's advogate posts if you will, after all I quite understand your thoughts, as indyfreak said it's humorous!! ;)

[Pale Horse]

Another thing that just totally bugs me about Indy: it's his lack of commitment to any one thing. I mean, isn't an archeologist supposed to be patient. We already know he left Marion. He ain't with Willie, couldn't even hang on to Elsa. He won't ever go after the greatest find in archeologist history, he is just a carbon copy fast food archeologist who should never had had a job teaching.

[Patrick]

Things worng with Indy:

- For some reason, his enemies have extremely inaccurate
aim. He fights around 50 men with firearms in their hands and only one, can hit him, and it only hits his arm!
- Why on earth would the FBI or whatever, want a university professor to recover an artifact that's existence is unsure? and if it was, why would they have one professor, wouldn't they want a full-time espionage agent, advanced in his trade to chase after it?
- And how can he teach a class when he's always out on adventures?

[Pale Horse]

Excellent Patick...you couldn't have said it better.

[dmaster]

Lose the wip, lose the hot and heavy leader jacket. Give the man a shovel, a canteen and a brush. And please, please!!! Slow down... or you'll miss the precious tweedy bird bone on sector G-7.

[Indyologist]

1.) If I were dean of a college, I would've fired Indiana Jones a long time ago. If he can't be responsible to his students, he shouldn't be a professor.
2.) Indy is a stuck up, superior SOB towards women. I can't believe it when he told Willie in that love scene in TOD that she was an "experiment!" He not only deserved to NOT get any, he deserved a solid smack in the mouth.
3.) We all know Indiana Jones isn't a real archeologist, but just a nonsensical, childish, Spielburgian popcorn generating "hero." Scientist? Hardly. The only time he was a REAL archeologist was in a TINY part in ROTLA when uses a surveyor's instrument to look for the Well of the Souls and when he was digging for it. THAT'S IT! The rest of the time it's a bunch of typical Hollywierd phoney-baloney. But then Hollywierd has to color everything with day-glo colors and smear it with lies, doesn't it?
4.) Who the h--l would name themselves after a dog-- how lame can you get?
5.) If Marcus Brody is such a retard that he gets lost in his own museum, why is he in charge?
6.) I think it's sick how Indy slept with Marion when she was just a child. Also, in the novelization of TOD we read that Willie is only 19 or 20. And Indy is how old? 30? 35? Sounds like he has some possible pedophilic issues, if you ask me!
7.) Ah, and then there's that convenient Achille's blessing of invulerability that Hollywierd so graciously gives Indiana Jones-- he falls off a cliff and just "happens" to glide into the rapids. He just "happens" to escape being crushed/blown up/chopped up/burnt to death/shot at/ by seconds. What a farce! For once I'd like to pull out the mattress out from under this guy before he falls 150 feet into it and see what gravity can do! Indiana SPLAT!
8) I agree-- he DOES belong in a museum-- impaled by darts on a corkboard!

(Ladies & gentlement: I would like to apologize for the above fictionalized rant. Had it been an actual rant, I would have been severely flamed. Thank you.)

[Canyon]

Originally posted by Indyologist
1.) If I were dean of a college, I would've fired Indiana Jones a long time ago. If he can't be responsible to his students, he shouldn't be a professor.
2.) Indy is a stuck up, superior SOB towards women. I can't believe it when he told Willie in that love scene in TOD that she was an "experiment!" He not only deserved to NOT get any, he deserved a solid smack in the mouth.
3.) We all know Indiana Jones isn't a real archeologist, but just a nonsensical, childish, Spielburgian popcorn generating "hero." Scientist? Hardly. The only time he was a REAL archeologist was in a TINY part in ROTLA when uses a surveyor's instrument to look for the Well of the Souls and when he was digging for it. THAT'S IT! The rest of the time it's a bunch of typical Hollywierd phoney-baloney. But then Hollywierd has to color everything with day-glo colors and smear it with lies, doesn't it?
4.) Who the h--l would name themselves after a dog-- how lame can you get?
5.) If Marcus Brody is such a retard that he gets lost in his own museum, why is he in charge?
6.) I think it's sick how Indy slept with Marion when she was just a child. Also, in the novelization of TOD we read that Willie is only 19 or 20. And Indy is how old? 30? 35? Sounds like he has some possible pedophilic issues, if you ask me!
7.) Ah, and then there's that convenient Achille's blessing of invulerability that Hollywierd so graciously gives Indiana Jones-- he falls off a cliff and just "happens" to glide into the rapids. He just "happens" to escape being crushed/blown up/chopped up/burnt to death/shot at/ by seconds. What a farce! For once I'd like to pull out the mattress out from under this guy before he falls 150 feet into it and see what gravity can do! Indiana SPLAT!
8) I agree-- he DOES belong in a museum-- impaled by darts on a corkboard!

(Ladies & gentlement: I would like to apologize for the above fictionalized rant. Had it been an actual rant, I would have been severely flamed. Thank you.)

Want to take it outside? I could use a bit of whip practice... :p


<small>Seriously though, Indyologist. Im surprised at you flaming our beloved hero, even if it isn't for real.

Some people</small> :rolleyes:

[Pale Horse]

Oh My Gosh! The fact that some woman can even be swayed by the ineffectuial charmings of Indy is probably the biggest farce of all. I mean just look at Canyon. Dupped by the love-em-and-leave-em mentality of such an imperfect man...eeesh.

note
Don't worry Canyon, I love you just as much as westford

[merancapeman]

Now, listen up. I want all you advocates to realize how i percieve you haters...

Put yourself in Indy's shoes...

Tell me, if you think Indiana sucks, then do what he does and see how you act. It's easier said then done, folks, because indy, the pistol packin', whip wackin', fist smashing hero is going to live on. He has no super powers, he uses the reality of life, rather then being a famous proffessor who eats a fly infected bannana and becomes Super Freak. In the next five minutes i want you advocates to swing on a whip without succesfully cutting yourself more then once, shoot three germans with one bullet, and survive a room of highly poisonous snakes. If you succesfully do this and live to tell us, you have a right to argue this situation. I, on the other hand, have proved my point thus far.

[Blofeld]

I HATE INDY!!!!

He's always getting in the way of people who are out to accomplish things.....

Mola Ram....he wanted to drive out the Britiish from India, a goal of Ghandi, no less....f*$# Indy.

Then Mola wanted to destroy the Christian, Hebrew and Muslim gods......that's the only way there can be peace in the Middle East and the world....If that happened in 1935, 9/11 would never have happened!

Indy...talk about an ugly American, white, male Jerk!!

[merancapeman]

I stand corrected...

[Webley]

Why is it that all the die hard Indy fans love TOD best?
Is it the cool headed Willie Scott. Could it be Short Round the kid who is the rell star of the movie. To bad Raiders and Crusade had to be made. Oh well maybe Indy 4 will be as good as Temple.

[Attila the Professor]

Originally posted by merancapeman
Now, listen up. I want all you advocates to realize how i percieve you haters...

Put yourself in Indy's shoes...

Tell me, if you think Indiana sucks, then do what he does and see how you act. It's easier said then done, folks, because indy, the pistol packin', whip wackin', fist smashing hero is going to live on. He has no super powers, he uses the reality of life, rather then being a famous proffessor who eats a fly infected bannana and becomes Super Freak. In the next five minutes i want you advocates to swing on a whip without succesfully cutting yourself more then once, shoot three germans with one bullet, and survive a room of highly poisonous snakes. If you succesfully do this and live to tell us, you have a right to argue this situation. I, on the other hand, have proved my point thus far.

This argument? The old "why don't you try it and see how you do?" one? That's a fallacy; it isn't a reasonable argument. I don't care if Atticus Finch would support your basic idea; the details just don't work.

[IndyGirl821]

Okay, if this is supposed to be a complaint board, I guess I have 1 complaint.

WHAT THE HECK IS WITH THE BANQUET SCENE? I MEAN, COME ON! ACTUALLY IT'S MORE OF THE OPPOSITE! MORE INDIANS ARE VEGETARIANS!

OKay, that's all. I'm happy! I got the DVD set a week ago. But I guess that should be posted on a different board.

[IndyGirl821]

Just to let u know, that was my oly complaint. Other then that, I love every millimeter of Indiana Jones.

[intergamer]

Velcome to ze Wraven, vere ze pafs kross.

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by IndyGirl821

Okay, if this is supposed to be a complaint board, I guess I have 1 complaint.

WHAT THE HECK IS WITH THE BANQUET SCENE? I MEAN, COME ON! ACTUALLY IT'S MORE OF THE OPPOSITE! MORE INDIANS ARE VEGETARIANS!

"Being a vegetarian, means never having to say your sari"

[Canyon]

Originally posted by Indyologist
1.) If I were dean of a college, I would've fired Indiana Jones a long time ago. If he can't be responsible to his students, he shouldn't be a professor.
2.) Indy is a stuck up, superior SOB towards women. I can't believe it when he told Willie in that love scene in TOD that she was an "experiment!" He not only deserved to NOT get any, he deserved a solid smack in the mouth.
3.) We all know Indiana Jones isn't a real archeologist, but just a nonsensical, childish, Spielburgian popcorn generating "hero." Scientist? Hardly. The only time he was a REAL archeologist was in a TINY part in ROTLA when uses a surveyor's instrument to look for the Well of the Souls and when he was digging for it. THAT'S IT! The rest of the time it's a bunch of typical Hollywierd phoney-baloney. But then Hollywierd has to color everything with day-glo colors and smear it with lies, doesn't it?
4.) Who the h--l would name themselves after a dog-- how lame can you get?
5.) If Marcus Brody is such a retard that he gets lost in his own museum, why is he in charge?
6.) I think it's sick how Indy slept with Marion when she was just a child. Also, in the novelization of TOD we read that Willie is only 19 or 20. And Indy is how old? 30? 35? Sounds like he has some possible pedophilic issues, if you ask me!
7.) Ah, and then there's that convenient Achille's blessing of invulerability that Hollywierd so graciously gives Indiana Jones-- he falls off a cliff and just "happens" to glide into the rapids. He just "happens" to escape being crushed/blown up/chopped up/burnt to death/shot at/ by seconds. What a farce! For once I'd like to pull out the mattress out from under this guy before he falls 150 feet into it and see what gravity can do! Indiana SPLAT!
8) I agree-- he DOES belong in a museum-- impaled by darts on a corkboard!

(Ladies & gentlement: I would like to apologize for the above fictionalized rant. Had it been an actual rant, I would have been severely flamed. Thank you.)



1. Responsible? What the heck does that mean? His students have nothing to do with his adventurous lifestyle.

2. Stuck up and superior? Sexist? No way. If Indy was sexist there is no way on this earth that I would like him!

3. Indy has been known to work on 'real' archaeological digs and besides, that's what makes Indy such an interesting character in the first place.

4. The real reason that Indy named himlelf after a dog was because 'Indiana' (the malamute) saved Indy's life from a snake.

5. Brody is great in his own environment, but take him out of it and he's like a fish out of water.

6. Marion was about 16 when Indy had a fling with her. Yes she was young, but it takes two to tango. Regarding Willie, Indy would have been 35/36 when he met her and in the novelisation of Temple of Doom, she is described as a 20 to 25 year old.

7. Indiana has a wonderful knack for staying alive and has a great instinct for survival, everyone knows that. It's what makes him such a great hero.

8. Museum? For crying out loud, the guy is only in his 30's!

[Canyon]

Originally posted by IndyGirl821
Just to let u know, that was my oly complaint. Other then that, I love every millimeter of Indiana Jones.

I love every part of him too! :D

Welcome to The Raven Indygirl821. I'm Canyon and am known as one of the many droolers on this messageboard!

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been a fan of the gorgeous one?

BTW, love the signature and agree with you 100 percent! :)

[Adventurer]

Originally posted by apalehorse
Raiders? RAIDERS! Well now that you bring it up, THANK GOODNESS Ghandi won best picture in 1981. I can't even believe the acadamy would consider such a movie for Best Picture.

Amen to that!
Ghandi was GODSEND! What an awful waste piece of celluloid Raiders was! It was so bad, it couldn't have won a Golden Raspberry! But there's more to it. We all can be more than happy that the Academy let Vangelis win for Best Music for his masterpiece Score of "Chariots of Fire" and not this lousy Raiders Theme. Come on, it was really baad, wasn't it? Repetitive, no real beat to it, completely emotionless and just sloooow and boring in the middle. Besides, who remembers this movie anyway? Chariots of Fire is by far more people around the world accepted as a masterpiece in film history that this officially acknowledged piece of b-movie trash.

[Canyon]

Chariots of fire? Bah! What a rubbish movie that was!

Raiders should have gotten first place and the Raiders theme is far better than the Chariots of Fire theme.