Interesting....

[indyjones2131]

I just killed some time by reading through some debates and rumors and worries about the new Indy we are all so amped about. So many fans - true, schoolboy (and girl) giddy fans of our hero Indiana Jones. What I found interesting is one fan's knowledge and dedication is stronger than the next just as one fan's interpretation is as different as the next.
There have been many debates and arguements about whether or not Indy is the type of guy to marry, or have a kid, or even a few about whether he would do drugs or listen to hip hop. I'm not sure if there is any other character in movie legend that sparks so much debate. I can only attribute this to the fact that Indy is a human, everyday kinda guy who is always in over his head and doesn't always clearly and easily win (and definitly not unscathed). We relish the thought of having more peices to add to this already fleshed out character and just hope that the perception of who we think he is isn't ruined or changed too much.
I for one think he is the type of guy to get married and have a kid. He wouldn't do drugs or listen to hip hop for whats its worth. He is independent, but his independence stems from the necessity of survival through self reliance.
To make a lot post not quite so long, we all love Indy because he's not the hard ass tough guy that racks up a rambo body count without a scratch. Look at his face in LC when he hugs his dad at the cliff's edge. He has emotion. He loved Marion, Sallah and Marcus. Why would he not get married. Especially considering the time the next film will take place. A new era in archaeology, the more scientific era.
This is not ap post to argue about whether he should be married or have a kid, just to comment on the different interpretations of the character we all love. How many of you had goosebumps when you saw the trailer for the DVDs? I mean it was just footage of films I have seen 10000000 times and I still got excited. Can you imagine when the lights go down in the theater, the green "approved for all audiences" trailer screen comes up, then a black screen and you hear those ever so recognizable notes played kinda slow and at first. Then BAM!!!! the traile for Indy 4. Wow. All I'm saying is that sure there is little else to do to pass the time before arrival than debate, and its fun, but.... let the character live, right?

[wolfgang]

HEY! welcome!!! lets see, i would like it if they leave his character alone and how he is, i mean no marrige, no son, just another chapter. Now, I agree so much with you on the trailer thing, and i thoguht the same thing "Wow, when will I see the indy 4 trailer?"...not much of a reply, but I'll write back again as soon as I can, bye

[Attila the Professor]

I've bored people enough with my "Indy Noir," but I'll give a brief summary of what I want, and then get on to the topic at hand.

Attila the Prof's Indy Noir is a vision of Indiana Jones in the early 1950's in which many of his friends are dead, he's a bit of a hard drinker, something of a black market freelancer, doesn't do much fieldwork, has Marcus's old job (since Marcus, the mentor of Indy, has died - Indy's fault in some way). Basically, he isn't the mostly good guy we know from the previous films...let's just say he's been nudged out of the light, and we all know what happens when he's been nudged into the shadows, from what Monsieur Belloq tells us...

Anyhow, that's how I see Indy IV. I suppose I see Indy I, II, and III just as everyone else does, more or less. We all have what we want to see in Indy IV, nobody will really be that happy with it in that respect (least of all me ;)). We should have open minds, I suppose, but we should also discuss these things, before it's too late and we're debating "what might have been."

Okay, this all sounds very pessimistic, but I'm really an optimist...I'm looking forward to the Indy IV trailer just like the rest of you.

[indyjones2131]

Yeah, Attila I think your noir idea sounds great. Indy and Harrison Ford actually, kinda have that Sam Spade/Bogey vibe. Ya know we had a great balance in Raiders, a lot of darkness AND comedy in TOD and a lighter tone in LC. I would like to see that darker side of Indy a bit more. He is only human so why not see this dissillusioned adventurer not sure where he belongs in a new world. A sort of Woodrow Call in Streets of Laredo (haven't read it? Jeez pick up the whole Lonesome Dove saga, trust me.
WHen do ya'll see the trailer hitting? Can you imagine how wonderfully wierd its gonna be to see Indy in new settings, danger and kinda new skin too I guess? Man, can't wait.

[00Kevin]

what is this? Die Hard With a Vengence? sorry, but I don't like this 'dark indy' thing....there is nothing wrong with indy as he was in the first 3, don't fix something that isn't broken

plus, alot of people will not accept this Idea...it's too different...may bomb at the box office




sorry my friend, but I think you've seen 1 too many old movies.....

[monkey]

Attila, I like your "Indy Noir". As long as it is in the fifties. Because actually Indy in the fifties is something that I don't really feel attached to in any way. To me he will always be the 1930's Action Adventure Hero that he should forever be.

But IF Indy will be placed in the fifties, (and it sure looks like he will now), then yes, let's definitely see something different. Let's see a disillusioned man. Let's see a man fighting demons from the past (figurative, not literally, it's not going to be a horror movie, OK?). Let's see an alcoholic. Let's see a man with children, legitimiate or illegitimate, or both (hmmmm, there's an interesting idea). Let's see a troubled man with many troubles. And then let's see him rise above all of it.

Yes, I very much favor an "Indy Noir" approach to Indy IV. I really think they should go in that direction. Let's be honest, you CAN'T really expect Indy IV to be just 'another' adventure. The time span, both real and fictional, is just waaaaay too long.

It is almost like a completely new character will be born (can you say "Indy V'")??

Some day, the original character of Indiana Jones, the 1930's version, will be resurrected, perhaps by a new director/producer, and certainly by a new actor. But that day is a bit far off right now, so it WILL be Harrison Ford as an older Indy and it WILL be the fifties. Let's make it interesting.

[Attila the Professor]

Woodrow Call...he was the Tommy Lee Jones character, right?
I remember Robert Duvall's being more Quixotic, and didn't seem disillusioned, but maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, I'm glad to see some support for my idea (btw, the title, "Indy noir" is actually bob's creation).

Monkey, I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head about the appeal of Indy noir...it seems necessary (to those of us that like it) for Indy IV to be considerably different from the previous three.

[torao]

i like that noir stuff. but i think we should also keep in mind that an indy noir shouldn`t be too different from the usual indy.not too much of rick deckard or other chracters...because it should always be
indiana jones. it`s just important that he will always be an interesting character as well-
i totally agree with what you said indyjones.

[indyjones2131]

Yes, Woodrow Call was the Tommy Lee Jones character in Lonesome Dove, but its not until that book's sequel, Streets of Laredo, that you really see an adventurer (former Texas Ranger) who is older and seeing the times change. The old west where he was useful is now the new west.
I like ADDING this aspect to Indy, not replacing his character with something entirely new. He has always had a certain dark side here and there... I don't want the whole film to be dark and depressing and noirish, but just give us a hint that this dissillusion is happening inside him.
Then throw in some great adventure.

[bob]

I agree with a lot of what Attila said (but thats a lonnnnngggg story) I think that Indy Noir is a great idea but it should be diluted to a certain extent by the demands of the Indy movies.

In my opinion by the time of Indy IV Indy should be disillusioned with all that he did to save the world seeing how he has been betrayed by the US government. Indy should be called back into the fray for initally only knowledge after being offered a lot of money but Indy gets drawn in and then the adventure gets personal etc..

No son
No heavy dad presence
Just Indy the dinosaur of a bygone age

[FordFan]

I don't like the whole Indy noir idea. The idea that Indy became an alcoholic. That'd be shocking to see, but that's why I don't like it.

Did you ever see Godfather Part III? It's the least acclaimed of the series, and I think I have an idea of why that is. In Godfather Part I, Michael Corleone loses his father and his brother. In Godfather Part II, he loses his mother and his other brother, plus a baby through an abortion. That was where it should have ended. Did you really want to see Michael Corleone in another movie to see him suffer more than that? I didn't.

What I'm saying is that the mass audiences don't want to see a character as likeable as Indy in a drunken state. They want to see him swinging from chasms again, and riding horses and kicking ass ASAP. That's what my wait of 16 years will have consisted of. Wanting to see that.

However, I'm open to whatever scenarios they come up with regarding Indy. Hell, I'll see it no matter what.

[Attila the Professor]

Originally posted by FordFan
I don't like the whole Indy noir idea. The idea that Indy became an alcoholic. That'd be shocking to see, but that's why I don't like it.

Did you ever see Godfather Part III? It's the least acclaimed of the series, and I think I have an idea of why that is. In Godfather Part I, Michael Corleone loses his father and his brother. In Godfather Part II, he loses his mother and his other brother, plus a baby through an abortion. That was where it should have ended. Did you really want to see Michael Corleone in another movie to see him suffer more than that? I didn't.

What I'm saying is that the mass audiences don't want to see a character as likeable as Indy in a drunken state. They want to see him swinging from chasms again, and riding horses and kicking ass ASAP. That's what my wait of 16 years will have consisted of. Wanting to see that.

However, I'm open to whatever scenarios they come up with regarding Indy. Hell, I'll see it no matter what.

You make some valid points. To be honest, the whole alcoholic thing is something I just throw in there (into Indy Noir) on occasion to add to his downward decline. It's pretty contrived as well, I know.

As for the Godfather Part III, you're right, they probably should have ended it with Part II (that great shot of Michael in the chair, fist up to his chin - great shot, filled with emotion) but the fact is that Part III, good movie though it was, just came too long after the other two. I feel that was it's greatest flaw. The story was pretty great, and on par with the other two, I feel.

I certainly understand what you are saying, wanting to see Indy doing all his action stuff after 16 years, and not wanting to see him in a stupor. But, I don't want to see him just doing to same-old song and dance 16 years later...I want greater story content, and I think a downward decline is both the most interesting and the most likely (not to be in Indy IV, but to happen to Indy if he were real).

[monkey]

I also think some of your points are valid FF.

But then again, the concensus is that Indiana Jones was born in 1899 right? So if this movie is set in the fifties then Indiana Jones is in his fifties at least.

Do you think that a fifty-something guy can do those kind of stunts and have it come off as realistic? I don't. I can see him doing some of the stunts, etc. (and by 'stunts' I mean simply 'action sequences'), but there has to be more.

To make just another Indiana Jones action movie you have to either step into a time machine and go back to the eighties, or get a new actor to play IJ.

If Ford plays the character, then there must be some "noir" elements there. Otherwise it will be foolish. Have you ever seen an old guy trying to be young? It doesn't work.

As for the Alcoholic aspect of it, that's nothing new. That was touched upon a little in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Remember the scene after Jones thought that Marion had died? And hey!, do you have something against alcoholics???

whoops. OK, anyway,

This whole IJIV thing is kind of a conundrum in a way. Indiana Jones is a 'young' type character, but Harrison Ford IS Indiana Jones, but Harrison Ford IS old, so Indiana Jones HAS to be old in the movie. Indiana Jones IS a 1930's Action Adventure Hero, but since the Old Harrison Ford HAS to play the role then it HAS to be set in the fifties..........yada, yada, yada....., let's just do it and move on. OIY!



[Edited by monkey on 07-01-2003 at 11:54 pm]

[FordFan]

Oh yeah, I agree. I think it would really stretch the credibility if Indy did the same kinds of stunts. Well, the same I don't mind, just maybe less stunts.

I agree that they need a reason for making this fourth movie, but I don't think the new element should be sympathizing with a drunken Indiana Jones. I don't think it would work.

There are two paths to take for this last movie: magnify Indy's age or not. Either way is successful depending on how you do it. If they display Indy as an older man, they should do it similarly to how Clint Eastwood's character was displayed in Unforgiven (but without the alcoholism). That could work, or they could make Indiana Jones a character similar to Sean Connery's character in The Rock. There he still knows how to do what he does, but he's been out of the game for a while and we're waiting to see if he CAN still kick ass.

Either way is cool with me. I just don't want there to be a scene where he's trying out the bullwhip and knicking himself on the back of the head or something like that. That'd be a funny "ha-ha" joke that you'd enjoy the first time you saw it, but can you honestly watch that joke through repeated viewings?