mel gibson's the passion

[hffan2000]

hi,
been reading about the new movie mel gibson is making on the last hours of christ's life and i'm really excited to see it. looks like it'll be a great film. possibly the most accurate film on the passion that's been done. what do you guys think about this movie?

[Attila the Professor]

Ah yes...another film about Christ and the crucifixtion. Well, I haven't heard much about this one, except that it's expected to increase anti-Semitism.

[hffan2000]

well as far as it possibly being anti-semitic, i don't think it will cause i think he's got the good sense not to cut anything that could be percieved as such. i mean you couldn't make a movie about Jesus and do it right by being anti-semitic cause he was a jew. i guess we'll see when it comes out.

[bob]

Even though i am not religious i am intrigued by this film, it seems incredibly daring to make such a unique personal vision....

As for the Anti-Semitism you must walk a fine line between making the movie accurate to the Gospel accounts and not making it anti-semitic one which can be pulled off by a little common sense...

But i do admit i am a little confused about how Gibson can claim to be wanting to be extremely accurate when a 3 hr movie is being made out of a couple of thousand words

[Venture]

Commenting on this one without seeing it could get me in a lot of trouble. Needless to say, I'll be in the ticket line.

[Aaron H]

Originally posted by Cain
Commenting on this one without seeing it could get me in a lot of trouble. Needless to say, I'll be in the ticket line.
Here here.
My pastor (Ted Haggard) was honored to be chosen to see this film. He has his head on straight, and rest assured there is nothing that is anti-Jew or anything of that sort in this film. After all, Jesus was a Jew...

[hffan2000]

i simply can't wait for this movie. i think it will reach alot of people and maybe even some will come to know christ. i'm just glad to hear there's no anti- jewish scenes in it. i'm going to the theaters to catch this one.

[Finn]

Wasn't this the movie where all the characters will be speaking only Hebrew, Aramaic and Latin?

And as far as I've heard, Gibson intends not to even subtitle it... "this solution is good for the soul".

There wouldn't be many people on this Earth who would catch every spoken word in this flick...

[Edited by Finn on 10-06-2003 at 12:59 am]

[Yolegoman]

If that rumour is true, Mr Finn, then I will be very shocked...

Hmm.

"Go's to dig up link to trailer he saw some time ago"

Be right back!

The Fan Website: http://www.passion-movie.net/

The Trailers: http://www.passion-movie.net/english/trailer.html

Wow.

Found this in the FAQ:

Q. Is THE PASSION really going to be in Hebrew, Latin, and Aramaic?

(A) Yes, all spoken language in THE PASSION is either in Latin, Aramaic, or Hebrew. It is still under discussion as to whether or not there will be subtitles in the theater release. Rough cuts of the film that have been seen do contain subtitles throughout the film.

[Edited by Yolegoman on 10-05-2003 at 03:03 pm]

[Finn]

BTW, this gives me a good occasion to rant about the correct spelling of antic Latin.

The way Pilatus says the famous phrase "Ecce, homo" (Look, he's a man") said with an American accent ("Eche Oumou") sounds so terrific, that it makes a latinist shiver.

The correct way to pronounce the phrase in antic Latin would be something like "Ekke, hoomo".

Maybe Gibson has given a language course to his actors, but he should have chosen his teachers more carefully.

[Marcus Petrius]

Be carefull when talking about transliteration and pronounciation of classis languages. If you say something wrong the modern Greeks and Italians will get mighty pissed.

[Finn]

No need to warn me about that, I am a Latin student (among with my other professions) and should know something about these things... ;)

[Blofeld]

I can't wait to see this movie.

Even though I'm an atheist/agnostic(I don't believe in any of the world's religions and I've just about tried them all but ultimately I don't know if there is a higher power)

[Pale Horse]

America should teach the classics more, I applaud you Finn.

[Attila the Professor]

Well, it seems I'm agreeing with you again, Ren.


Literature...a real shame people don't know it better. We really must discuss it sometime...some pretense of a thread, I suppose...or the Mercenary Lounge.

[Finn]

Guys, I wasn't complaining about their language.
I was complaining about the <i>spelling</i> that would make any Roman think that the speaker is a barbarian...

[Attila the Professor]

Originally posted by Finn
Guys, I wasn't complaining about their language.
I was complaining about the <i>spelling</i> that would make any Roman think that the speaker is a barbarian...

Yeah, I know...but they brought up literature, somehow, so I had to jump on the bandwagon.

[Pale Horse]

Better a barbarian then social death, I always say

[Venture]

Originally posted by apalehorse
Better a barbarian then social death, I always say

Depends entirely on the society.

[Pale Horse]

I understand the to issues that surround this film are the Anti-semitism accusations and the breakdown of the Vatican II theological work. I am sure this will be the second thread in the film classics that gets locked, but not after we all get a chance to discuss it after seeing it. If you don't think it is big news, check this out....


Passion (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=1944&u=/variety/20040210/va_ne_al/_passion__poised_for_heavenly_b_o_1&printer=1)

[Edited by apalehorse on 02-10-2004 at 09:12 am]

[Aaron H]

As long as the posts stay on the topic of The Passion of the Christ, and not into a debate about theology then there is no reason why I or another mod would lock it.

I am looking forward to this thread and to this movie. Here it comes!

[Kate]

Are folks here likely to debate theology (besides me- I'm a debate freak!)?? What tends to be the religious/political viewpoint of the typical Ravener? or shall I post this somewhere else? :D

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Kate
Are folks here likely to debate theology (besides me- I'm a debate freak!)?? What tends to be the religious/political viewpoint of the typical Ravener? or shall I post this somewhere else? :D

Discuss is a better term, at least in this corner of the Raven. Much of it happen in archeology, as religion and it are strange bedfellows.

Politics typically isn't discussed, and almost always leads to a padlock. Just no real round hole here in the Raven for a square peg like politics, unless it is the poltic of negotiation in the 30's. Even then it's a stretch.

As far as the Passion goes, we will see...

[Edited by apalehorse on 02-10-2004 at 03:48 pm]

[Tennessee R]

Is'nt this the movie where in production, twice someone on the set got struck by lightning?

[Pale Horse]

Yes. Jim Caviezel. Smoke emenated from his ears and he walked away from it uninjured. It was while he was on the cross during the crucifixion scene.

[Tennessee R]

Wow. I thought I had heard that somewhere. I don't know, but either good or bad, there might be a message in that somewhere. :)

[Kate]

Originally posted by apalehorse
Yes. Jim Caviezel. Smoke emenated from his ears and he walked away from it uninjured. It was while he was on the cross during the crucifixion scene.

Whoa! That is CREEPY!

Who here is actually planning on seeing it? I'm a bit squeamish about some of the stuff I heard was going to be in the film. So sue me.

[Rumpled Fedora]

As of now, I'm planning on seeing it.

[Tennessee R]

I don't know if I'll see it or not, but to Kate (Cappie), I've read that because of the realistic approach, some things may not be too pleasant to watch.

[Strider]

It’s pretty clear to me that what’s wrong with American society these days is the lack of people being informed. We have greater access today to information today but we have few and fewer people actually READING the news.-Renderking Fisk

My god Fisk you are so right! So many people just don't know what's going on!

[westford]

I doubt if I'll bother with this film. Mel Gibson and historical accuracy don't go together, and I'll not go into historical accuracy and the Bible...

[vaxer]

I probably won't be able to see it because the movie hasn't found a editor (distributor, or wahtever you call it) in France. If I want to see it I'll have to Germany so it would have to be REALLY good for me to go see it.

But I have to say that I'm pretty interested in seeing a movie of such controvercy in order to make my own opinion. Mel Gibson is said to have a pretty extremist view on the subject: info or intox?

[Doc Savage]

I will see it. The media has completely obfuscated the point here. They hinge their Anti-Semitism case on the fact that Caiaphas is portrayed in a sinister light...just as he was in the Bible. They claim that the "blood libel" (where the crowd said,"His blood be on our heads and our children's.") is going to spark hatred. The media does this when they slam Israel for defending itself.

In a nutshell, the Gospels are the most in-depth historical account of what this movie is about. And what it's about has very little to do with an angry Jewish crowd circa 30 A.D. Gibson has placed blame for Christ's death on every man, woman, and child who needed a Savior. Some of them happen to be Jewish.

We don't blame Germany for Hitler, and we don't cry "BIGOTRY" when the Holocaust is discussed. The media and the ACLU need to quit attacking the message of the movie by directing attention to a fabricated "civil rights" issue.

[Pale Horse]

2 days till we can all have a different insight about this...(ie our own)

[Kate]

actually, I'm afraid to see it. too violent for me!

[Tennessee R]

It is rated -R- I believe (because of what Jesus had to suffer through is portrayed realisticly)

[Kate]

I KNOW that the movie will make me cry. I cried in "last crusade" when Henry Sr. says, "I thought I lost you, boy."

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Kate
I KNOW that the movie will make me cry. I cried in "last crusade" when Henry Sr. says, "I thought I lost you, boy."

Wait till you hear Christ say "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani!" With the words, "My father My God Why have you forsaken me" (loosly translated so as not to offend Finn) <small>hopes he spelled it right too, though knows that Finn wouldn't penalize me for language errors as I never claim anything but English. I'm still learning</small>

[Edited by apalehorse on 02-23-2004 at 07:42 pm]

[Kate]

* kate cries just thinking of it* what I was trying to say is that I cry very VERY easily in movies. I meean, who cried IJATLC??

[Pale Horse]

*<small> remembers a different thread with you about beauty</small>

[Kate]

You a God-fearing man, Palehorse?

[Pale Horse]

Aren't we all?

Yes I am. I am the son of a Baptist minister.

[Kate]

Interesting.

I didn't mean to mock you, i just thought that way I formed the above question was funny. I myself haven't been to chruch in a few years. I feel betrayed by The Catholic Church, but I'm definetly spiritual. Son of a Baptist minister, eh? Tori Amos was the daughter of a Methodist minister.

[Tennessee R]

Actually, the defenition "Church" is not a building, but a group of believers in Messiah.
So, what did the Catholic Church do to turn you off?

[Edited by Tennessee R on 02-23-2004 at 07:50 pm]

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Kate
Interesting.

I didn't mean to mock you, i just thought that way I formed the above question was funny. I myself haven't been to chruch in a few years. I feel betrayed by The Catholic Church, but I'm definetly spiritual. Son of a Baptist minister, eh? Tori Amos was the daughter of a Methodist minister.

I know that about her, I won't say I'm a fan(<small>but I have a few albums</small>) I also didn't feel mocked. I rarely do. Knowing exactally who you are in all your perfections and imperfections makes it hard for others to hurt you with mockery.

And I'm with TR. Why were you turned off?

[Doc Savage]

You guys want a real tear jerker? I was watching "The Making of..." last night, when one scene brought big, bad Doc Savage to tears. Jesus stumbles carrying His cross and Mary bends down and says,"I'm here...I'm here..." Jim Caviezel then pierced my heart by turning to her, stroking her cheek with a bloodied hand and saying,"See, Mother? I make all things new!" It says in the Bible that Jesus "For the joy set before Him" endured the cross. We are that joy.

[Kate]

I was turned off for a lot of reasons. When I was little, my mom took us to lots of different churches- Presbyterian, Anglican, Lutheran. Then, when I was 10, my mom converted to Catholocism so that we and my dad could all go to church together (he didn't attend the Protestant churches with us).I was baptized, recieved Communion, and was confirmed all at once, at age 10. I didn't know the first thing about Catholocism. So I was basically forced into it, which is a big reason I'm turned off by it. Another reason- I believe the Church is hypocritical. I went to a Catholic high school my freshman year, and I couldn't believe the hypocrisy. Here they were, offering extra credit to students who went to anti- School Of the Americas rallies, the followers of the same religion who oppressed so many for thousands of years. The Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, oppressing the sexual health rights of women. Well, that's just my two cents, guys. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry.

PS: Which Tori albums do you own? I have them all.

[Pale Horse]

Hypocrisy. That is a very tough one not to get caught up in. Most of us have our experience in hypocrisy from time to time.

Was that your only reason you were turned off? I suspect it's not.

Back on topic <large>Finn!</large>, if you see this can I, we get a commentary on your interpretation of the language?

[Edited by apalehorse on 02-26-2004 at 09:59 am]

[hffan2000]

now that the passion has been released in theaters i was wondering what you guys thought of it.

Moderator Edit: Merged for Clarity

[hffan2000]

Renderking i know exactly how you feel. i was moved so much the effects are still with me. it's definitely deepened my already strong faith and i plan on watching it every good friday once i buy it on dvd. this is one film i truly believe is a classic.

[bored]

I thought mel Gibson was great as an actor but when he started making films I completely changed my view of him. Films like the Patriot are a load of bollocks. He portrays the english as heartless, cowards, murderers etc but portrays the yanks as noble, brave, fearless.
I have never watched a film with so much [mod edit] in my life. I wonder why he is anti- english

[Luckylighter]

Gibson didn't direct The Patriot...Roland Emmerich did. But Gibson did direct Braveheart where the British were not exactly portrayed as nice guys. But back then, for the most part, the aristocracy weren't nice. That's how they built up their empire, by not being "nice". They were ruthless soldiers and warriors--mean SOB's, and at the same time well-educated and intelligent, both during the time of Braveheart and later during the time of The Patriot.

I find British history to be a bit of a double edged sword, they accomplished amazing things, and at the same time, they were really bad mamba jambas.

But doesn't that apply to ALL cultures. No country's or civilization's history is untarnished.

But I have gotten off topic.

I have never had tears flow so freely while watching a film as they did when I saw The Passion. I have never been in a theater that was so quiet and reverent towards what was appearing on the screen.

And I have never felt so much shame as when He was nailed to the cross for our sins.

That film made me want to be a better person. And yet I still fail and come up short every day.

As far as the anti-Semitism...I felt that if anyone came under attack it was the religious hierarchy, and the sort of mob mentality they can whip up so easily. In some ways, I felt it was anti-organized religion. It was the Jewish LEADERS who were portrayed negatively, not the Jewish people.

But that's just my nickel. (Inflation)

[Pale Horse]

bored

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Pale Horse

[Strider]

I may see this movie becouse of it's controversy, but I hear it is horribly anti-sematic. I have a Jewish friend who says he won't see it becouse of that, and I probably won't ether. The musical "Jesus Christ Superstar," is enough Jesus for me.

[Pale Horse]

Are you sure?

There are so many interpretations of J.C., how could you limit yourself to one?

That is like trying "bumblebee tuna" and never goin' to a restaurant in Japan to have fresh tuna sashimi, because the can was "too much"


Maybe a bad metaphor, but I hope the message came through.

[Urmel]

Originally posted by Strider
I may see this movie becouse of it's controversy, but I hear it is horribly anti-sematic. I have a Jewish friend who says he won't see it becouse of that, and I probably won't ether. The musical "Jesus Christ Superstar," is enough Jesus for me.
I would not believe in things some people say. Before you haven't seen a film you can't really know how it is. Better make your own opinion. The truth in the statement "Passion Christi is anti sematic"
is as same as the truth from rumours. One person states a thesis and gives it to another. The other person itself gives it to another one and so on. This is the way rumours be created. I have seen this film and can definetely say that it is not anti sematic.

[Indy's_main_man]

One might say Indy is loosley based in a Christian philosophy as far as what he believes. Spielerg is jewish but in LC they serched for the cup of christ...

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Indy's_main_man
One might say Indy is loosley based in a Christian philosophy as far as what he believes. Spielerg is jewish but in LC they serched for the cup of christ...

There is so much fluff right now in the Raven, I would really like to see a nice paragraph or two from you about this. It could lead to an interesting discussion. It would be good in it's own thread.

[Junior Jones]

I'd like to see (and join in) a thread like that. Which forum would you suggest starting it in? I suppose off-topic would be most likely.

[Pale Horse]

Well it would probably be best in the Classic Trilogy thread, I may allow it in here, provided we all remember we are comparing two films.

[fatima]

I'm late here....but couldn't help to say that The Passion moved me deeply, it's based in the biggest Love message in History of Humankind, it's also about Salvation, and I not see the movie as just violence as some say...you have to see the movie with the eyes of your faith and heart.
oh and I've also became a huge fan of Jim Caviezel!

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Renderking Fisk
Hey, I'm also not ashamed to admit that because of Raiders and LC I've been working on a relationship with God. I'm not the perfect Christian... and those who say I am lied.

I will challenge you with this Ren, and by no means does it need to be discussed here. Cocerning your relationship you are working on, know this:

"To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ."

That might give you and each reader of this thread what Mel's representation of "The Passion" means on a much larger scale then a moving cinematic epic.