Brody sold Jones out

[Pale Horse]

How can any of you like Marcus? After a recent viewing of Raiders, I realized why I was never settled with him as a character.

Here is the conversation:

Indiana: ...and the Ark, the museum gets the Ark?

Marcus: oh <small>pause</small> yes, (looks down to the left and away from Indy)

Indiana passes Marcus on the left to pour a glass of wine for a toast as Marcus stares at the floor and sighs.

I think he knew the government was going to get the Ark in the end, but couldn't fess up to Indy that he sold his best professor out. (sorry Attila)


Thoughts?

[Finn]

Hmm... then again, Marcus seems to be unhappy with the situation when in the end it is revealed that the government will keep the prize.

IMO it's always been so that the Intel guys actually promised Marcus that they would get the Ark on display, but after discovering that it really held powers that world was not ready to face, they decided to keep it... but of course it's possible that it really went the way you told us, horsie. Another mystery we'll probably never unravel.

[Edited by Finn on 01-16-2004 at 01:12 pm]

[Joe Brody]

I don't think Brody sold out Indy. After all, I don't think he would have expressed an interest in going after the Ark himself if he knew it was just going to be seized by Uncle Sam.

I look at the Ark being crated off as a statement on the U.S. government's stupidity, and I don't think they knew that the Ark "really held powers". As Indy says, 'they don't know what they've got there." I can imagine Indy describing the Ark wreaking havoc in his debriefing with Major Eaton and Eaton just shaking his head saying 'yeah, right." And then under his breath to Musgrove, "Let's just pay this nut bag off and get him out of here."

[LASTCRUSADER]

I doubt very much that Marcus sold Indy out. I have wondered about this myself. I think Marcus knew that the museum would not get the Ark. I mean he is the one who made the arrangements with Eaton and Musgrove for Indy to go after the Ark. Marcus may have lied to Indy because he knew that Indy could find it before it fell into the hands of the Germans. Besides would it really be wise to have the Ark in the museum and allow the whole world to know that it exists?

[philhos]

I concur with my fellow Raveners that Marcus did not sell out Jones.

As for my explanation of the way the scene transpired. I think Marcus was trying to express some kind of feeling that he couldn't. Hence, the warning about the Ark and it's "unspeakable power".

I think Marcus in some, possible "fatherly" way, loved Indiana (if you will) and was extremely worried about what he had set in motion.




Either that, or the guy that plays him's not a very good actor (which I don't buy).

[Finn]

What if the opinions Indy and Marcus had about the ark weren't the same and that would explain Brody's odd behavior?

In the beginning of the movie, the ark is just another treasure to obtain for Indy. He doesn't see it as some kind of thing with non-understandable powers coming with it, but only as a relic that would be the ultimatum of his archaeological career.

Marcus instead thought that the ark actually is something more than simply an artefact to obtain. If we look at the scene at Indy's home, it can be noticed very easily actually. However, Marcus wishes that Indy would be right and if he is (he isn't), the ark would be put on display. He thinks that if found, the ark may be something one should not put on display, but he doesn't dare to say it out loud, because Indy would call it back by saying "you don't believe in that mumbo-jumbo too, do you" (or something similar).

[bob]

I personally do not agree that Marcus sold Indy out but to take that idea further why would he do this to his friend

[00Kevin]

no way did Marcus sell indy out.....and that 'pause' wasn't a lie, he didn't even really pause, if he had sold them out, we would have been able to sell


marcus DID NOT sell indy out

[TheOldBum]

I always took it that Marcus was unsure, and said yes dectedly because he knew it was wishful thinking, but didn't want to discourage Indy. If he were out and out lying, he wouldn't have acted how he did at the end.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

The Old Bum

[Attila the Professor]

I always took it as an exclamation of excitement: "oh, yes!"

[Tom Jones]

Apalehorse, how could you not like Marcus? He one of the funniest Indy character's there are.

Anyway here's some info:

In Last Crusade Marcus explains to Indy when arriving at Henry's house that he's been a friend with Henry since time began. (Long time huh) And that he's watched Indy grow up and watched both father and son grow apart.

My point is they've always been friends. Since Indy left his dad Marcus had become ultimately like a father to Indy, always looking out for him and always ready to throw Indy a thousand bucks or two. I don't think Marcus would ever, could ever lie to Indy.

[Finn]

Exactly. Look at the scene in the beginning of Raiders. Indy has lost the big prize, the idol, and all he has is a little amount of potsherds or something. We can see that they're very little or no significance to both of them, but still Marcus is ready to buy them for a fair price.

[bob]

Originally posted by Tom Jones
Apalehorse, how could you not like Marcus? He one of the funniest Indy character's there are.

Anyway here's some info:

In Last Crusade Marcus explains to Indy when arriving at Henry's house that he's been a friend with Henry since time began. (Long time huh) And that he's watched Indy grow up and watched both father and son grow apart.

My point is they've always been friends. Since Indy left his dad Marcus had become ultimately like a father to Indy, always looking out for him and always ready to throw Indy a thousand bucks or two. I don't think Marcus would ever, could ever lie to Indy.

Yes but the Marcus of Raiders and LC are in my opinion two completely different characters....

[00Kevin]

Originally posted by bob
Originally posted by Tom Jones
Apalehorse, how could you not like Marcus? He one of the funniest Indy character's there are.

Anyway here's some info:

In Last Crusade Marcus explains to Indy when arriving at Henry's house that he's been a friend with Henry since time began. (Long time huh) And that he's watched Indy grow up and watched both father and son grow apart.

My point is they've always been friends. Since Indy left his dad Marcus had become ultimately like a father to Indy, always looking out for him and always ready to throw Indy a thousand bucks or two. I don't think Marcus would ever, could ever lie to Indy.

Yes but the Marcus of Raiders and LC are in my opinion two completely different characters....

elaborate

[philhos]

Originally posted by 00Kevin
Originally posted by bob
Originally posted by Tom Jones
Apalehorse, how could you not like Marcus? He one of the funniest Indy character's there are.

Anyway here's some info:

In Last Crusade Marcus explains to Indy when arriving at Henry's house that he's been a friend with Henry since time began. (Long time huh) And that he's watched Indy grow up and watched both father and son grow apart.

My point is they've always been friends. Since Indy left his dad Marcus had become ultimately like a father to Indy, always looking out for him and always ready to throw Indy a thousand bucks or two. I don't think Marcus would ever, could ever lie to Indy.

Yes but the Marcus of Raiders and LC are in my opinion two completely different characters....

elaborate

Well, in LC, Marcus was more of a bumbling idiot/moron. Whereas, in Raiders he seemed confident of himself and was very "British" (at least to an American like me).

I will say that at the beginning of LC, Marcus seemed the same as in Raiders, so it may just be that Marcus was completely out of his element in LC and that's just how he comes across paired with Indy.

Just call me Roger Ebert - 'cause I'm fat.

[00Kevin]

he was as confident in raider as in LC...in LC he was in the field, the place where he doesn't belong, you know he's not ganna act the same in that world

[Attila the Professor]

Quite right fellas...this has always been my explanation for the change in Marcus's character in LC. In everything up until Alexandretta, Marcus is very much himself. The one exception is when he and Indy are about to get on the plane. This can be easily explained away as Indy going on a trip not of his planning and of a very important nature. As for Alexandretta, that is rather understandable, language barrier and all, and then he is captured by the Nazis. Notice, he still manages to quip and join in on the fighting. Then as for getting off of the tank - I think that is rather natural for a professor to not know how. Finally, the thing about the horse at the very end: he has enjoyed himself, in spite of all the danger, and is just kind of doing something out of the ordinary.

[Tom Jones]

Very well summed up Attila.