Very Interested in.....

[Quest84]

Hey guys this is my first post, and im getting really interested in biblical archaeology. If anyone has any site/book recomendations, they would be greatly appreciated. Im new to this, so any help is great

[Tennessee R]

I'm a new member too, but have been reading this site for about a year. I should probably let the fellow that goes by the name of 00Kevin, or one of the veterans of the site officially welcome you, but unofficially, I give you a beginning welcome.
Welcome.
Just wait around for a Raven Official Welcome,

[Tennessee R]

Sorry, to answer your question, try http://www.WyattMuseum.com for starters, and ask any questions you might have.
Your friend,
Tennessee

[Webley]

Originally posted by Tennessee R
[B]Just wait around for a Raven Official Welcome,
That sounds official to me.

[QueZTone]

hey Quest84 :) welcome to the Raven =]

[Quest84]

Thanks guys, and to Tennessee, thanks for that site!!

[intergamer]

Originally posted by QueZTone
hey Quest84 :) welcome to the Raven =]

Quez, is this you in disguise again? :)

[intergamer]

Rather than wait for Kevin,

Originally posted by 00Kevin many many times
Welcome to the Raven, where paths cross.
Incidentally, ARE YOU DRUNK??


There you go.

[bob]

Welcome Quest!

I too have an interest in Biblical archaeology but really you get out of it what you want to (as many authors do) such is the variety of the opinions.

For a fairly trusting approach to the Bible but not hysterically so I would check out David Rohl's 'The Lost Testemant'

But (pssstt) for a work that adopts a purely scientific minimalist apporoach saying only what can be known i would recommend 'Bible Unearthed' very strongly.

But it really depends what you believe already and what you are prepared to believe about this subject.

[Pale Horse]

Those are some interesting works, bob. I havn't read them but have spent some time reading as many reviews as I could find. They are both now on my book wish list. Perhaps they would go well with the thread Joe is trying to start up in a different table.

[Doc Savage]

Hey, Quest...wouldn't be Jonny, by any chance?

Check out the works of Dr. Kent Hovind. He deals with many disciplines of science, all from a creationist perspective. Tennessee will enjoy the fact that he was friends with Wyatt before he (Wyatt) passed away. The good Doctor likes the Good Book. As many have said in these hallowed halls, it's an archaeologist's best friend when taken literally.

[Tennessee R]

Doc Savage, I am the son of the president of Wyatt Archaeological Research (Since Ron Wyatt passed away), and Kent Hovind is a good friend of ours.

I've been to his place in Pensacola, FL, and he has been to our museum in Cornersville, TN fairly recently.

Kent is a great creationist speaker, and keeps the intrest of everyone with his witty jokes (he's got some really good ones).

Post back, Doc

[Doc Savage]

I could watch Hovind all day. A pastor at my church bought his Creation Science seminars and began showing them to our congregation. My wife and I couldn't wait for the rest to be shown in such a slow format, so we ordered them. I love seeing crackpot "science" get a shot in the chops by the Word. Guess it's out of the bag now where I stand on religion.

What's even funnier is that I'd run into you here. I was familiar with the "Gulf of Aqaba" findings before I saw Hovind's seminars, but was unaware of the pillars of Solomon. You and I need to talk.

[Tennessee R]

Be delighted to talk, just start up any conversation.
How did you originally hear about the Aquba crossing site? Was it through us or someone else?

[Doc Savage]

Actually, it was through the BASE Institute, I believe. The theories offered concerning the various lakes outside of Succoth made no sense to me in light of what the Bible said, and I found it hard to believe that so many people would leave no trace of such an exodus. How I never put what Paul said in Galatians together with the now-obvious fallacy of the Sinai peninsula must have been the penultimate "duh" moment of my life. The apis bull inscribed on the altar in Saudi Arabia was a particularly nice touch. By the way, you're welcome to contact me outside this forum via email anytime. Any friend of Dr. Hovind's is a friend of Doc Savage.

[Tennessee R]

Originally posted by Doc Savage
Actually, it was through the BASE Institute, I believe. The theories offered concerning the various lakes outside of Succoth made no sense to me in light of what the Bible said, and I found it hard to believe that so many people would leave no trace of such an exodus. How I never put what Paul said in Galatians together with the now-obvious fallacy of the Sinai peninsula must have been the penultimate "duh" moment of my life. The apis bull inscribed on the altar in Saudi Arabia was a particularly nice touch. By the way, you're welcome to contact me outside this forum via email anytime. Any friend of Dr. Hovind's is a friend of Doc Savage.

I have currently no e-mail on this computer, but by tommorow (or sometime soon) I should have it set up, and then maybe I'll give you an e-mail.

It really does make sense: "Mount Sinai in Arabia"
Now, Arabia (present day Saudi Arabia) was origonally(sp?) Midian. When Moses killed the Egyptian, fled to Midian, and married Jethro's daughter, Moses saw the burning bush on Sinai. When Moses led the Israelites back from Egypt, he was on his was back to Mt. Sinai. He went around the gulf of Suez, and was probably on his way around the gulf of Aquba, when God told him to "turn back and incamp by the sea", so he got into the wadi that runs to the beach where they crossed, and when they were on the beach, the Egyptians were backed up into the wadi, mtns. blocked their escape to one side, a fortress to the other, and the only way was across.

Anyways, It's late, and I'm tired, I'll come back tomorrow,

Good to talk, Doc.
Goodnight.

[Doc Savage]

I've checked out Wyatt's website, and am truly impressed. The concept of Christ's blood on the mercy seat gave me goosebumps, and I'm not prone to those. Given what I believe about the Tribulation, it only makes sense that the temple furniture would be stashed together. But to find it under Golgotha, with the blood of The Lamb on it...breathtaking. I'm ordering Wyatt's book on his findings and look forward to it greatly.

[Pale Horse]

Department of Geological Sciences
California State University Northridge
18111 Nordhoff Street
Northridge, CA 91330-8266
October 15, 1996
email 103725.3674@compuserve.com
FAX 818-677-2820

Mr. Gary Amirault
Tentmaker
HCR Box 6D
Hermann, MO 65041


Dear Gary,

As an addition to your web site which is entitled: "Wyatt Archaeological Research Fraud Documentation," I wish to report an article which has been recently published. The reference is:

Collins, L. G. and Fasold, D. F., 1996, Bogus "Noah's Ark" from Turkey Exposed as a Common Geologic Structure. Journal of Geoscience Education, v. 44, p. 439-444.

In this article David Fasold and I report aerial photography analyses of the supposed ark structure and the surrounding terrain, chemical (electron-microprobe) analyses of the supposed iron bracket in the ark structure (as obtained by John Baumgardner), chemical analysis of a drogue stone, optical studies of thin sections of rocks in the ark structure, of the supposed iron bracket, and of a drogue stone, and thin-section studies of the ribbed-rock interpreted by Ron Wyatt as fossilized reeds. These studies all show that the ark structure is a natural rock formation composed of layers of volcanic boulders and clay and that the drogue stones and ribbed rock are volcanic or metavolcanic rocks that could not have been transported to the site in Turkey from Mesopotamia. There is no evidence of any fossilized wood or any other man-made artifact. The supposed iron bracket is oxidized iron (limonite or goethite) produced by weathering of titaniferous magnetite which naturally occurs in the volcanic rocks or in eroded sediments derived from such volcanic rocks. The boat-like shape of the structure can be explained as resulting from natural folding of layers consisting of former stream-transported sediments locally containing abundant volcanic boulders and pebbles and from subsequent erosion.

In short, none of Ron Wyatt's claims that this rock structure is a fossilized remnant of Noah's Ark has any merit.

Sincerely,

Lorence G. Collins
Professor of Geology (emeritus)

(care of this (http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/).)

[Tennessee R]

Don't want to break the rules here at the Raven, but to Doc, the Discoveries Volume (I assume that's what you are talking about) has a ton of info in it. A pretty good book. Glad to talk to you again, I may just talk here, haven't even got E-mail yet :) Just can't seem to find the time :)
But where are you? I'm in Tennessee, and we have a museum 55 mi. S of Nashville, with actual pieces of Noah's Ark, and other artifacts.
You are probably not near, but if you were, you could come check the museum out. I'm part-time curator, there.

But anyway, Good to talk again, It's late here, goodbye

[Doc Savage]

Originally posted by Tennessee R
Don't want to break the rules here at the Raven, but to Doc, the Discoveries Volume (I assume that's what you are talking about) has a ton of info in it. A pretty good book. Glad to talk to you again, I may just talk here, haven't even got E-mail yet :) Just can't seem to find the time :)
But where are you? I'm in Tennessee, and we have a museum 55 mi. S of Nashville, with actual pieces of Noah's Ark, and other artifacts.
You are probably not near, but if you were, you could come check the museum out. I'm part-time curator, there.

But anyway, Good to talk again, It's late here, goodbye

Actually, I'm about four hours away, and I plan to drive down soon to see your "gas station."

And to apalehorse, to put it bluntly, any biblical archaeologist is going to have serious detractors from a secular establishment. While I don't have an educated opinion on Wyatt's finding of Noah's Ark, I have very high opinions of Dr. Kent Hovind, who publicizes his work.

[Pale Horse]

I don't know much about either gentleman, just what information I learn through dedicated research. If Hovind is true to traditional church dogma, than the work he does as detailed on his site will be fruitful. I just believe it to be good to see everything from all angles.

[Doc Savage]

Originally posted by apalehorse
I don't know much about either gentleman, just what information I learn through dedicated research. If Hovind is true to traditional church dogma, than the work he does as detailed on his site will be fruitful. I just believe it to be good to see everything from all angles.

I appreciate your candor, and reserve judgement on this issue until I've done more homework. Hovind's website is http://www.drdino.com. Check it out...it's riveting. Hovind also has many "nay-sayers," but not many will engage him in open debate. My confidence in Wyatt is, therefore, vicarious for the moment.

[Pale Horse]

I'm not a nay-sayer, except to bad science. <small>read macro evolution</small> But if you have been reading any of my earlier posts (though why anyone would is beyond me) then you know where I stand. Something tells me we will get along just fine, "sharpening each other" so to speak.

[Doc Savage]

Iron tends to do that to iron. I look forward to it.

[Tennessee R]

Aha, I'm back, today. Sorry, Apalehorse, I didn't refresh the page until I was about to go to bed, so I saw your post, and started to write, my computer shut down, and I decided to wait until today to post.
Apalehorse: I congratulate you in the fact that you are a researcher. You check things out. You don’t take Wyatt’s word on it. I like that.
Here at Wyatt Archaeological Research, we present the evidence, and let you make your own decision. Please, as the Bible says:
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” 1 Thess 5:21


So, I will begin by saying that Tentmaker is very critical of Ron Wyatt. (Can’t you tell? :)
Now, I will state that Dave Fasold was absolutely ecstatic at the find of this site in middle Eastern Turkey. He went over with Ron to the site. In one of his video clips, he says very excitedly: “What more evidence do we NEED!!!!!!” He sincerely endorsed Ron’s claims of the site being Noah’s Ark.

Then, if I have my story right, someone drilled less than 5 holes, I believe less than 5” in diameter, in different places on the site, and concluded that it was a natural site. Fasold agreed with those.

#1 “the supposed iron bracket in the ark structure”
Analysis has shown that the rivet has space-age alloys including titanium, alluminum, and other space-age alloys. Kind of wierd for a natural volcanic formation.
#2 “chemical analysis of a drogue stone”
There are large boulders with unique holes in the tops, and some have 8 main crosses (Could it be the 8 survivors of the flood?).
And Ron Wyatt did not believe that the boat was a reed boat.

In our museum we have actual pieces of Noah’s Ark, but one of the main features is a deck timber that was presented to Ron by the Turkish Gov. (Which by the way believes that it is Noah’s Ark) And this deck timber has layers like ply-wood. Now the Bible tells us that the ark was made of gopher-wood, and if you look up the word gopher in the Oxford Dictionary, Gophering can refer to layering.
I’ll end up with saying that this site is not on Mt. Ararat, but on a smaller mountain several miles from there (The Bible says that Noah’s Ark landed on the “mountainS of Ararat” mountains plural) Ararat itself is a post-flood volcano, so if Noah’s Ark ever was on Mt. Ararat, it is probably blown to splinters by now. All in all, it makes sense that Noah’s Ark would be right where Ron’s site is.
Apalehorse, this was not about you, this post, this was about correcting some of Fasold’s claims, and I say again, Fasold was a great, great supporter of the site.
Thank you Apalehorse, for your input and research. Please continue posting here.
Doc Savage, It would be great if you could make it down to the museum, and if you come down, ask if ‘David’ is here. Goodbye for now, and be sure to

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” 1 Thess 5:21

[Pale Horse]

Tenny...

I must apologize for my earlier eccentric-ness. Shortly before you began posting there was a, well, I'll just call it an incident. If you have been reading for a while, you know what I am refering to. Coincidently enough when you began reviving old threads, I had just finished my archeological digging of numerous threads as well. I just wanted the powers to be to know that you and I were in fact, two separate people. Now that that is known, we can move on. Perhaps I should have clarified this before, but alas time heals all wounds.

Much of Wyatts sight is fascinating, to be sure. Much of his findings fit into the realm of believability, and credibility. I am still skeptical of the Noah's Ark claim, only because I found evidence (though I am still verifying its credibility) which show numerous other sights with the exact same characteristis of the Wyatt Noah's Ark sight.

Where is your museum's artifact from?

And to be sure, I know all about the ramification of 'this present darkness'. You're preaching to the choir if you feel my inquiries are founded in the ways of the serpant. ;) I assure you they no longer are.

[Tennessee R]

I masjudged you, Apaleorse, I had an idea that that was what your post was about, but I didn't think you would stoop to this (Last Crusade Joke :) )

No, Apalehorse, I did have an idea that that was what your post was about. No hard feelings. But, you know, I might need some sutable compensation :)

In a few words, Ron Wyatt saw an areial photo in Life Magazine of a boat-shaped object with the caption above it:
"Noah's Ark?"
So he went to middle-eastern Turkey, where the site was located, and measured the site using laser measurment, and it measures out in Royal Egyptian Cubits, exactly the deminsions as stated in the Bible (300 cubits long, or about 515 feet) He took a material sample, and when analysed had cat hair from the cat family, and a fiber that had fiber-optic like properties. (Not long ago, we learned that polar bear hair is fiber-optic, Kind of neat). And the site is located on a smaller mountain a few miles from the base of Ararat, but still in that region.

[Pale Horse]

I'm full of surprises

[Tennessee R]

I'm interested in what you said:

"numerous other sights with the exact same characteristis of the Wyatt Noah's Ark sight."

Could you please explain?

[Doc Savage]

Not to interrupt, but I'm honored to be a part of this discussion. What I can't get over is that Wyatt found the ark of the covenant ( I am operating under that assumption; sorry, guys, but I'm sold ) The year after Raiders came out.

[Tennessee R]

You are not interrupting, and yes it is incredible.
I don't know if you saw this on our website, but I got back in July of '03, from a Wyatt Archaeological Research project in wich about 30 volunteers did amazing work, in excavations under the Temple Mount (Mt. Moriah).
You have probably read that Ron theorizes that Jeremiah hid the Ark of the Covenant through underground passageways that lead from the location of the temple, to a cavern in the Garden Tomb area (Where Jesus was buried).

Well, we were in King Solomon's Quarries in July, and did major excavations in the aforementioned site.
I am the sub-surface, ground-penetrating radar operator (In which we can actually see what is under the ground), and did radar scans at the site Ron had described, and found enough to try to excavate. So, we did, and continued until the end of our alloted time, and still seem to be following a filled-in passageway going in the direction of the site Ron said he discovered the Ark of the Covenant.

[Doc Savage]

You, my good man, are a bona fide Raider. My fedora is off to you. When I come to your "gas station," I'll take you out for coffee and you can regale me about the Promised Land. I plan on seeing it and Cairo before the next Big Exodus.

[Tennessee R]

The next big Exodus is, I hope not too far off, so come soon. :) and, maybe call the museum number on our website to make sure I'll be here.
I look forward to seeing you in the not-too distant future.
And will be glad to talk here until that time comes.

[Doc Savage]

You said in a previous post that the ark was near the Garden Tomb. Where is that in relation to Golgotha?

[Tennessee R]

In one corner of the Garden Tomb, (Which is quite a big place being that it is a garden), you can look off some railing and see Golgotha only 30 to 50 feet away, so, pretty much just right there. Where Ron dug originally is very near the place of the skull, but inside the Garden Tomb properties.

[Doc Savage]

How often do you all go to Israel, and to what is involved in volunteering?

[Tennessee R]

Wyatt Archaeological Research used to take tours over, but because of the trouble in the Mid East, stopped for a while, but recently, our trips have been:

Oct '02: Work at the Garden Tomb (In which I did not witness)
Feb '03: We went on follow-up work from the previous trip, and hired Ground-Penetrating Radar (Or GPR)
July '03: Bought GPR and I took course on operation of GPR. Went to Israel, did GPR at King Solomon's Quarries, and did major excavations there.
Dec '03: Did GPR at Qumran at the request of a Prof. in CA, in an atempt to locate more caves that might house more Dead Sea Scrolls.

So, we go over fairly often, and I would reccomend signing up for our E-mail update list on our website (You don't have to worry, you won't be getting thousands of emails a day, more like one a month), and we will send you an E-mail, as soon as we know dates and information on another trip. Then, send us an email asking for more info, and we will give you detailed info on the trip that you are interested in.


Edit: Last time, it was around 2k for 2 weeks, and that included international air tickets, most meals, hotel, transportation, and mainly everything that you can think of except domestic air tickets.

Just to give you an idea

[Edited by Tennessee R on 02-05-2004 at 11:13 pm]

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Tennessee R
I'm interested in what you said:

"numerous other sights with the exact same characteristis of the Wyatt Noah's Ark sight."

Could you please explain?

Well I researched (limited) the web and found what (at first viewing) seemed to be geological proff of similar types of structures near Ararat. After you wanted to know more, I found the sight again, but doubt its credibility. I'll post it here:

black and white pic (http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1154.asp)

[Doc Savage]

Evening, gentlemen. Glad to see we're all here again. I'm going to read The Pale Rider's article now. Be back in a jiff.

[Doc Savage]

To paraphrase Dr. Hovind (who espouses no definite opinion on the Noah's Ark debate), the interesting thing about Wyatt's "boat" was that, while the other boat-shaped mud flows pointed downhill, Wyatt's defied the normal flow of mud and pointed uphill. I didn't see the position in the article, but I dismiss any article that singles out "Christians" as an easily excitable, gullible bunch. Again, the continual effort to debunk Biblical claims only strenghtens my resolve and leads me to believe that God's going to leave a couple of scoffers with their collective posteriors in the wind.

[Pale Horse]

Rarely does one choose the way of persecution, unless it is the only way that is right. ;)

[Doc Savage]

Yer pretty darn heroic yourself there, pardner.

[Pale Horse]

I am so far from that. To quote a line from the Matrix:

There is a difference bertween knowing the path, and walking it.

I wish my discipline was far stronger. Who knows, maybe you will prove to be someone who helps shepard me along the way?

*stops to read about his proselytizing*

Wait a second, I don't even know you?! ;)

[Tennessee R]

Doc Savage, Creation out of nothing

[Edited by Tennessee R on 02-15-2004 at 07:38 pm]

[Doc Savage]

Originally posted by apalehorse
I am so far from that. To quote a line from the Matrix:

There is a difference bertween knowing the path, and walking it.

I wish my discipline was far stronger. Who knows, maybe you will prove to be someone who helps shepard me along the way?

*stops to read about his proselytizing*

Wait a second, I don't even know you?! ;)

But you seem so familiar...

[Tennessee R]

Originally posted by Doc Savage
To paraphrase Dr. Hovind (who espouses no definite opinion on the Noah's Ark debate), the interesting thing about Wyatt's "boat" was that, while the other boat-shaped mud flows pointed downhill, Wyatt's defied the normal flow of mud and pointed uphill.

Welcome, my good friends,
Doc Savage, You are correct there, when you speak of Wyatt's site being pointed upstream. We have created a model of the boat, and simulated a mud flow around the object, and could not create the pointed end...Well, it's a little hard to explain, I will try to post some pictures of our experiment at a later date,

suffice it to say, we could not duplicate Ron's object by placing an obstruction and flowing mud around it. It would have to be a structure already there, such as a boat sliding down in mud.

Archaeology has proven the Biblical records correct many, many times.

Great to hear from you guys again.

[Doc Savage]

Originally posted by Tennessee R
Doc Savage, Creation out of nothing

[Edited by Tennessee R on 02-15-2004 at 07:38 pm]

And I was. Latin just has a Majestic resonance in some cases. My favorite would have to be "In principio erat Verbum." (Translation hint:it caused "creation ex nihilo.")

Good to hear from you again, Tennessee. I'm in the process of reading Wyatt's Ark of the Covenant book. I was unaware of all he found in that area. Fascinating. I advise anyone posting here to order it. And that's a satisfied customer talking, if there's any question as to motives.

[Tennessee R]

Hello Doc, Great to see you again also

I'm not really familiar with Latin (Except one word sounds like principal), I just got the other from my field.

Glad you enjoyed the book. And one thing that the book does not mention, is the analysis on the blood. We were not releasing that info at the time. But you can find that info on our website here:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/ark-of-the-covenant-07.htm

Great to talk again,
Tennessee R.

[Doc Savage]

The Latin phrase means,"In the beginning was the Word..."

And as to the somatids, isn't it just like God to not only keep His types and shadows from the Old Testament with the Lamb's blood on the mercy seat, but to leave evidence for us to find 2,000 years later?

[Tennessee R]

Originally posted by Doc Savage
The Latin phrase means,"In the beginning was the Word..."

And as to the somatids, isn't it just like God to not only keep His types and shadows from the Old Testament with the Lamb's blood on the mercy seat, but to leave evidence for us to find 2,000 years later?



"...and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God..."
One thing that is interesting is that the Bible gives us unmistakable evidence that Jesus is God:
"He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." It can put a whole new meaning for Christians when they understand that Jesus is the Creator of Heaven and Earth.


But yes, to get back on track, yes, the somatids (or preons-sp?, or microzymas-sp?) are fascinating. Not only are they in everyone's blood, but radiation will not kill them, acid won't destroy them, and you can't cut them with a diamond tool. They are indestructable, and are still alive today (As you said) in that ancient blood. In the Bible, when speaking of Sodom & Gomorrah, it says that:

"And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly..."

The word "Ensample" means a 'visual example' so you have to be able to see it today. Well, you might have read on http://www.wyattmuseum.com that Ron found some remains of ashes near the base of Masada, with sulfur balls (Or brimstone) lodged in the ash (I was there in Dec). Well, I guess the blood is another case of an ensample. An example that you can see today, the somatids in blood from a crusifixion site.

Well, I guess I'll see you later.