Hohlbein

[Junior Jones]

Is there anyone who would like to translate Wolfgang Hohlbein's German novels to English for us American fans? I guess that's too much to ask.

I bought three of them online at amazon.de and after months of painstaking work with a German/English dictionary I managed to figure out the introduction to the first book.

Obviously a full translation would be a lot of work and would probably break some copyright laws, but if any German-reading Raven members would like to provide detailed summaries (with spoilers included) I'm sure a lot of us would appreciate it!

[Urmel]

Hi Junior Jones,

I do have all novels from Wolfgang Hohlbein. Which of them do you have?
As you mentioned it would be an enormous amount of work to translate it into english. I hope I got more time when I pass my examination paper in mathematics. At first I can try to translate you the summary on the backcover of the novels.

[Ayrun]

Wow… I never thought someone was actually thinking of translating them. Respect. :)
Well, in that case.. I also have some of those books and am willing to give you a hand with translation if you like. Not sure if I can find a lot of time.. but I'll try.

[Lord Excalibur]

I would really like to read The Legacy of Avalon (the final of Holhbeins books) and that when Indy's in Egypt.

[Urmel]

Oh, I didn't thought that there is so much run on the translation of the books.
I don't know if I can make it, but I try to my best even if this are only a few pages of each book.

[Ayrun]

Just let me know if I can help...

[Urmel]

Hi again,

I tried to translate the summary on the backcover from The Legacy of Avalon.
Let me know if it is hard to understand.

Strange Coincidenes: Right before the coast of England a submarine was rammed by an old Nachen*. Near Liverpool a man with an unknown dialect was picked up. And near the belgium Gent german occupying forces work on an extremely odd secret project - a mediaeval castle. It is the year 1940 and Indiana Jones has a lot of work to do:
with a professor on the run, with tough nazis who need a rub-down and a very young belgian resistence fighter. Until he knows what it is all about. Excalibur, The legendary Sword from king Arthur, which shell be used as a executioner weapon.

*So I do not know the word "Nachen" either in german than in english. But I think it has someting to do with an old warship.

[Lord Excalibur]

Cool. It would be really great that some fans that knows German (I can't! :() that translates the books to some people really want to see these in english. And then present it on the The Raiders site. That wóuld be great for us that really want to read these.

[Urmel]

That will be a great challenge, but with the help of Ayrun I think we can make it even if it are only a few pages.
What a shame that nobody translated the novels from Wolfgang Hohlbein for the englisch speaking people.
Does anybody know Max McCoy? I heard he also wrote novels about Indy.

[QueZTone]

we've been very lucky as Dutch fans that they've been published in Dutch too :)

[Urmel]

Originally posted by QueZTone
we've been very lucky as Dutch fans that they've been published in Dutch too :)
Ayrun and me are planning to translate a novel from Wolfgang Hohlbein, maybe you want to join us.

[Lord Excalibur]

How does it going with your translation project. Me and a lot of Indy fans are waiting I think. Hope it works.

[Urmel]

Sorry, but my part of this translation goes on very slowly, because unlucky circumstances are stopping me. A lot of work and studies. For now I don't have the time to go on with this project. First of all I have to read the book to write a summary and then translate it into english. I hope in a few weeks I have more time to do that.
Perhaps Ayrun is little bit further than me.

[Johan]

keep it coming my friend

[Urmel]

I hope next week after all the preparations and the party I can divide my time better, so that the translation of the novel will get a higher priority.

[monkey]

Is it a simple matter of translation?

Can you really translate a work of fiction fully and efficiently from one language to another, even when the languages are so closely related as English and German?

I'm pretty handy with languages, but mostly Asian languages (Thai, Japanese). I DO know a fair amount of Spanish, but I don't know anything of the Germanic languages (well, except English, which is sort of in that family).

It just seems that there must be more than simply translating word for word. It doesn't seem like that would work. It would seem that a lot of the nuances would be lost, and certain idioms and syntax would be untranslatable.

I know that in Japan some of the Japanese language translations into English are hysterically funny. There is even a word that is used to describe it: "Japlish". I think there is even a website dedicated to it.

Outside of scientific and technical language, I don't know how well German would translate into English; particularly a work of fiction.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe it easily translates.

Experts????

[Ayrun]

Ehm.. well.. I don't think it would be a good translation if you'd translate it word by word.
You're right: that doesn't work.

I'm wondering.. your remark.. are you referring to this translation? The one of a Hohlbein Indy-book?
Because we're not going to translate it page by page…
I'm pretty sure neither Urmel or I can find the time to do so, I'm afraid.
It's going to be more of a detailed summary; not a translation of the entire book.

[monkey]

Yes, I'm talking about the 'whole' darn book.

CAN it (any of them) ever really be translated to the degree that they would be readable and entertaining to the average English language reader?

The 'Holbien' books have attained an almost mystical status on these boards. Without being offensive or bombastic, I'm frankly tired of hearing about them.

Translate them or don't.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound arrogant, but really, is ANYONE ever going to translate those books???? And I don't mean someone from our Indy fan community, I am talking about the publishing companies. Obviously there is a market for them here. Sadly I guess someone somewhere has made the decision that it wouldn't be profitable to publish them in English.

But here's one to ponder: Holbien himself did an interview on this site, IN ENGLISH!!! Why the heck doesn't he translate them????

[Ayrun]

Originally posted by monkey
CAN it (any of them) ever really be translated to the degree that they would be readable and entertaining to the average English language reader?

Why not?
These books have been translated in Dutch, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to translate them in English…

Originally posted by monkey
But here's one to ponder: Holbien himself did an interview on this site, IN ENGLISH!!! Why the heck doesn't he translate them????

I don't think it's the writer's job to translate his own books. And he certainly isn't going to do so if they tell him there's no market for them…

Before you get the wrong idea.. I too think it's stupid they haven't translated them yet.

[Finn]

If one asks should books ever be translated from their languages of origin, the answers are yes and no. No one will ever be able to make a <i>direct</i> translation, or actually is, but the translator can be sure that the text will be missing a great deal of athmosphere, tongue jokes and things like that.

There however, is a way to tell the same story and give the same wibes to readers all over the world, but that requires just way more work. And I claim that <i>any</i> book can be translated by this, from any language to any other language.

I'm going to take an example here: Harry Potter. I've read a single Potter novel out of curiosity (it was a fascinating read and well written, but not exactly my cup of tea), and I read it translated in Finnish. It was indeed a well-written piece. Out of curiosity I dug out an English translation somewhere and flipped through it. The translator had put a great amount of her time on it, she hadn't just made a word-to-word translation but had obviously tried to locate a joke corresponding or at least close enough to those points the originals used language that could not be translated without losing a point. And she had also bothered to figure out "Finnish" translations to those new "English" terms Rowling had made up (like "quidditch"), and I heard by the way that many translators doing the jobs on various other European languages had not bothered. Even though I'm not a craving Potter fan (like I'm not a craving LotR fan either even though I praise both of those books and movies), but I admire the way both writer and translator put their effort to the task at hand to give their readers as good experience as possible.

If this hasn't convinced you yet, I can move on to another field I feel moving on slightly stronger soil for me: Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Every native English speaker (who have read these five) will probably think that there is <i>no</i> way these could effectively be translated to different languages; but believe me when I say that they have. This book's got a huge fan base in Finland, and I'm 100% certain that all of them have not read Adams' works in the original language. Of course, everyone who has say that they prefer the English translation (like me), but the translator has again done magnificent job.

I've also read many bad translations, some of them going so far that whenever there's been a term unknown to the translator, it's been left like it is or then just twisted so that it looks like a Finnish written word. Thankfully, most of the translators at least around here are decent ones, so I don't have to make a difference do I go after a book in Finnish or English (but of course I pick the original if I just get the chance).

As a final point I could say that if tremendous pieces have been managed to convert from English to that Odd Nordic Jabber™, why would one not be able to translate from German to English, two languages that are even more closely related to each other.

Of course, there is never a way to reach a 100% same experience with a translated piece than an original, but 99% is more than possible, trust me. It just requires a crapload of work.

A good translator is never a faceless copier, but an <i>auteur</i>.

[Urmel]

I think it is possible to translate almost 100% of the vibe and atmosphere from a different language. But this will be a really great amount of work and I think this will be only possible if this is your profession and you can think in this language.

But as Ayrun already said, we don't have the time to do that. We just want to give a small extract from the novel of Hohlbein.

Originally posted by monkey
But here's one to ponder: Holbein himself did an interview on this site, IN ENGLISH!!! Why the heck doesn't he translate them????
Writing and speaking in English doesn't mean that you can perfectly rule it.
The Problem is to think in English.
This is only possible when you live many years in an english speaking country.
I tried to translate the unfinished fanadventure "Spear of Destiny" from english to german. It was really difficult to translate it so that it has the same meaning that fits into the scene.

If someone really wants a perfect translation page by page he or she has to find a way to publish the demand for translation in english, or just learn dutch or german. :D

[Ayrun]

Originally posted by Urmel
Writing and speaking in English doesn't mean that you can perfectly rule it.
The Problem is to think in English.

I agree. Well said. :)

[Urmel]

Originally posted by Ayrun
I agree. Well said. :)
Oh, thanks.

@monkey:
Just compare the translation of the synopsis made by me on the first page with the synopsis which is already published on theraider.net
and you will know how different the translations are.

Here is the link:
http://www.theraider.net/information/books/novels_hohlbein.php

[ElodieJones]

Why not ???

There are Indy novels in English, translated in French I have them.
I can read both English and Feench.

English, of course more difficult for me ;)

It's really similar.

I have learn german in school. I understand a very little bit. But I hate this language. So I hop that they would translate those books...I hope...

[Canyon]

A long time ago, I read part of a translation of one of these books and was very impressed. Also, I once signed a petition to get these books printed into English. ;)

[Johan]

how did the petition go? Who did you send it to? Did you get lots of signatures?

[Canyon]

how did the petition go? Who did you send it to? Did you get lots of signatures?


It wasn't my petition. It was something that I found out about on IJC.net a few years ago. :)

http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9125985/IJC/Community/Newsletter/IJC-nl2e.txt

[Klaus Kerner]

I just finished reading all Indy-novels ... except the two from Martin Caidin because his books (judging from the synopsis and the reviews) seem to be awful).

Here´s my ranking of the authors:
1.) Hohlbein
2.) Mc Coy
3.) MacGregor

You guys are really missing some good stuff with "Wolle" Hohlbein. The way he writes is magnificient (senternces, strucutre, thoughts of the characters, humour, describing of action sequences , etc.) really hooks you. I hope that the translator will be able to kieep the Hohlbein-style (if the books ever get translated). I found MacGregor´s novels very boring. MacCoy was good, but he needed to describe some things a bit more (sometimes I didn´t exactly know what was going on / what he wanted to tell) but his adventures were exciting.
Comparing Hohlebein stories with McCoys:
Some of Hohlbeins are better than McCoys´s (like "the feathered snake" (best Indy-novel PERIOD! "the lost people" (which seems to be underrated with some german Indy-fans), "Gold of El-Dorado" and "Labyrinth of horus"). I would rate "sword of Genghis Khan" on the same level as MacCoy´s. "Longship of gods", "secret of the easter islands" and "legacy of avalon" were inferior to the McCoy novels, but that doesn´t mean they were bad (they are still better than MacGregors).
As an Indy-fan I noticed two flaws in details while reading Hohlbein novels:
He uses Belloq´s twin brother in "avalon" ... for some reason he reffers to the "original" Belloq as "Jaques Belloq" instead of "Rene Belloq". Fedora (the guy from the prolouge of LC) returns in "Lost People", but for some reasons Hohlbein doesn´t call him "Fedora" ... he refers to him as "Jake" ... and wasn´t Indy´s fat sidekick in that same prolouge called "Herman"? Hohlbein refers to him as "Herbert"! Seems to be a mistake from Hohlbein (or maybe there were some ocopyright issues?). But that doesn´t ruin the fun (you correct the names in your own mind ;) ).
Indy-fans notice some confictds between the novels and the Indy-computer-games: Maccoy desribes how Indy and Whu-Han meet and how Indy finds the tomb of the first emperor ( which is a conflict to "Emperor´s tomb"). In Hohlbein´s "Sword of Genghis Kahn" Indy visits "Shambala Sanctuary", which he travles to in "Infernal machine"). He also meets Quetzacoatl in "Feathered snake" and in "Infernal machine".

Just my two-cents.

[Klaus Kerner]

Forgot to mention: The summaries of Hohlbein´s novel´s in theraider.net´s timeline ( http://www.theraider.net/indyjones/timeline/1922_1992.php) are incorrect:

Feathered snake: Indy doesnt "find" dying the geologist in an village! He was on an expedition together with him and eh dies while they are trying to escape from an errupting vulcano!

Longship of gods: Disc/UFO in the iceberg that flies into space? Nope, doesn´t happen! There is a longship of an old viking godness (forgot which one) in it which caries the souls of the viking warriors to valhalla (also, Thor´s hammer is on board of that ship). In the end, Indy´s female sidekick (who is a viking descendant) floats away with the ship to Valhalla (the ship does not sink into the ocean!).

Avalon inheritance: What celtic headband? Doesn´t happen in the book! The book is about Lancelot and his servant returning from Avalon in order to defend Brtitain against a new danger (the Nazi). Belloq and the Nazi capture him and use him in order to find excalibur (which can conquer/control england) ... which Indy (with the help of Lancelot´s medieval servant) tries to stop, of course.

Labyrinth of Horus and Sword of Genghis Khan: These short summaries don´t contain any mistakes.

Secret of easter island: while the summary isn´t totally incorrect (like the summary of "Avalon" or "longhsip") it misses the main plot of the book: Indy finding the lost people of the easter island (who worship a stranded Lady as their new god), their magical. powerful orb (which the nazi try to conquer) etc.

The other two summaries ("El dorado" and "lost people") are okay ... but Indy realizes that El Dorado is an (radioactive), golden meteor crater nearly at the very end of the book. So the summary gives a spoiler, which explains the reason/the causee why El dorado exists (and why it´s gold is "cursed").