Indy's relationship with his dad...

[matthiassatlure]

I didn't know there was a third Indy movie until last year. Last Crusade lived up to my imagination and more. The estranged father-son relationship particularly held my interest, and I'm a little disappointed by the Young Indy films because it's not that strongly protrayed in them.

Last Crusade is "The search for the father", which, as Steven Spielburg mentioned in the "Making of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade", is the "search for the Grail."

Those powerful moments in Last Crusade show deep meaning. I don't think it's possible to express the emotion present when...

I. "Unfortunately she hid her illness from me..." The sadness in both Henry and Indy when discussing the death of Indy's mother.

II. Henry Jones is walking away with his umbrella on the beach and Indy is looking at him in awe...


III."I thought I'd lost you, boy." Henry and Indy embrace after Henry's harrowing experience in thinking Indy had fallen off the cliff.


IV. The shock in Indy's face when Henry is shot by Donovan.

I think that Henry was more afraid of losing his son again, just after they'd truly found each other after decades of estrangement then his dying. And also that he'd gotten so close to finding the Grail, his lifelong mission, and might die before he could see it, and that "evil would walk all over this earth".

Anyways, I think I'm just rambling because I haven't watched Last Crusade in months (my DVD got snapped in half).

[Indyz Azn Gurl]

Originally posted by matthiassatlure
(my DVD got snapped in half).

How? ô_0

[matthiassatlure]

Had a fight with someone...they knew me well enough to know that breaking my Indy DVDs was where it'd hurt most...

My special feature disc befell the same fate this Friday..

But today I got Emperor's Tomb, that makes up a little.

[Tennessee R]

Your special feature disc got snapped in a fight too?
That's a mess.
By the way, that is some good notes about the relationship between te two.

[Renderking Fisk]

Alice, if we're talking about the same person who broke your LC disk that broke you Special Features disk, then we're talking about something more substantial then the Jones boys and their relationship.

You and Dave might have more in common. I think you need to get some help.

[Joe Brody]

matthiassatlure,

I agree that the father/son reconciliation is the best part of Last Crusade and the scenes you reference above are all very effective, but I think there are some minor flaws in the interaction between Henry and Indy that vexes me:

(i) As I've posted before, I don't like the scene in the prologue where Henry Sr. doesn't look up from his work while he makes Young Indy count to twenty. Bottom line, the message there is that he's more interested in his work than his son.

(ii) I don't think Henry ever apologizes for being a negligent father. On the Zeppelin (sp?), Henry gets all defensive about his parenting -- but there's no apology.

(iii) This is minor but it annoys me. Most parents unthinkingly learn to always keep their kids in front of them. I think there are a couple of scenes where Henry turns his back on Indy (I know Henry Sr. at least turns his back on Indy after the tank plunge and to mount up at the end of the film). Again, it's a minor point, but I don't like to see the father -- who's just supposedly rediscovered his son -- keep turning his back on Indy -- even if it is just to mount a horse (and if the audience is to assume that Henry has reverted to calling Indy 'Junior').

[Ayrun]

I like their relationship just because it's not a perfect father-son relationship at all. It has flaws.
But that makes it all funny.. part of the charm.

Originally posted by Joe Brody
(iii) This is minor but it annoys me. Most parents unthinkingly learn to always keep their kids in front of them. I think there are a couple of scenes where Henry turns his back on Indy (I know Henry Sr. at least turns his back on Indy after the tank plunge and to mount up at the end of the film). Again, it's a minor point, but I don't like to see the father -- who's just supposedly rediscovered his son -- keep turning his back on Indy -- even if it is just to mount a horse (and if the audience is to assume that Henry has reverted to calling Indy 'Junior').

Not criticizing in any way.. but just curious… I know a son will always be a son to his father no matter how old they get.. but do you really expect that behaviour you described from people their age? With a son who lives such a dangerous life?

[Finn]

Originally posted by Joe Brody
(and if the audience is to assume that Henry has reverted to calling Indy 'Junior'). That was there for the laughs. By the way, in the novelization, MacGregor kinda understood what you were going after. He moved that scene to a point <i>before</i> they entered the Grail Temple.

[Renderking Fisk]

For me being a dad… I have a hard time believing that there’s ever going to be a time when I won’t ever worry about him and try and protect him. I shutter to think that there could be a time when he’s looking after ME.

[Finn]

If you are a decent father Ren and bring up your son as a man who believes in right values, you should have nothing to be afraid of.

But, as usual... as much we would like, we can't bend the children to fit exactly that dream image we have of them.

[Renderking Fisk]

No, but you can shape them by exposing them to the good things and shielding them from the bad influences.

[Joe Brody]

Aryun,

I see your point about how age can undo learned behaviors -- but I'm just coming at this on a basic visual level: Henry Sr. repeatedly turning his back on Indy is inconsistant with the reconciliation storyline. In the pre-talkie days, every physical movement had to be in harmony with the story -- or else the director risked confusing the audience. A lot of technicians who worked the great movies from the '30's and '40's (like many Bogart films) got their training or were trained by people who learned their trade working in the silient movies. I think those old timers would have found a way to get around or avoid these minor inconsistancies. There's legandary stories about guys like Charlie Chaplin stopping production on one of his films for days whenever he was confronted with a problem like this -- he wouldn't continue until he found a way around even minor problems.

What bothers me is that Henry turning his back happens more than once and Henry Sr. never apologizes for his past parental lapses. Taken together, it undermines the story that unfolds in the scenes/images summarized by matthiassatlure. Now, I accept the minor flaws because in each instance I assume that Spielberg decided that he had bigger fish to fry, for example: (i) when Henry turns on Indy and lets Indy fall to his knees after the tank plunge, that is the perfect set-up for the fedora blowing back to to Indy, and (ii) showing a vibrant Henry mounting his horse and fashioning his makeshift head-cover (someone help me with a better term here), emphasizes that Henry's healed and hardy -- not a wounded old and in need of further care.

[fatima]

Good points about Henry and Indy relationship mathias....well, I have to agree with them.

And also add my personal point, Last Crusade is very rich with the two Joneses, I think it's delicious to pay attention how they deal to one another, Henry almost denies his afection to Indy ( when he breaks the vase on his head and says thanks goodness that the vase was not real ) and always wants to talk about 'bussiness' while they are together and avoids sentimentalisms...but yet knows how Indy is important to him when he falls from the cliff...it's great to see Henry's reaction afterwards and till the end of the adventure.