Pyramids

[Aussie Jones]

Do people here believe that the Pyramids, Stonehenge, and Mayan Temples etc. were built by man? I can't help thinking they were built by little green men.

How could they have been made by man way back then? I don't think we could make them now.

[Aaron H]

I personally think that humans were quite advanced at one time in history, but about three or four thousand years ago we were set back a bit (think "big flood").

I doubt aliens would build such monolliths, I mean why would they need to? Not to mention, if they can travel millions of lightyears just to reach Earth, don't you think that they would at least sign their work and let us know that they did it? Also, why bother with stone?

[Aussie Jones]

Aliens might have helped man to make them. There must have been anti-gravity back then.

[007]

I have to agree with Aaron H on this one, the idea of maritans building the pyramids and what not just doesn't sit well with me....

[Aussie Jones]

Originally posted by 007
I have to agree with Aaron H on this one, the idea of maritans building the pyramids and what not just doesn't sit well with me....

Have you actually been to the Pyramids. When I did it made me start wondering.

[Rick5150]

I doubt aliens would build such monolliths, I mean why would they need to? Not to mention, if they can travel millions of lightyears just to reach Earth, don't you think that they would at least sign their work and let us know that they did it? Also, why bother with stone?

Aliens building pyramids? Maybe not so far-fetched. Why would they? How the hell do I know? But if you were going to build/help build structures that were intended to last thousands of years and they didn't bring much with them in their little space ships, what would you use? Stone, of course.

They didn't sign their work!? Their work itself could be a signature, unique to the alien culture. There are many references to thing that we can't explain in the hieroglyphics of Egypt. Flying men wearing helmets and such. The Sphinx is a little harder to explain. Lion body with a human head. Hmmm. When was beer invented. That was in Egypt too ;)

I am not saying that I believe in it, but I am sure looking at all this with an open mind. Why not?

[Aussie Jones]

Originally posted by Rick5150
Aliens building pyramids? Maybe not so far-fetched. Why would they? How the hell do I know? But if you were going to build/help build structures that were intended to last thousands of years and they didn't bring much with them in their little space ships, what would you use? Stone, of course.

They didn't sign their work!? Their work itself could be a signature, unique to the alien culture. There are many references to thing that we can't explain in the hieroglyphics of Egypt. Flying men wearing helmets and such. The Sphinx is a little harder to explain. Lion body with a human head. Hmmm. When was beer invented. That was in Egypt too ;)

I am not saying that I believe in it, but I am sure looking at all this with an open mind. Why not?

Well said...

[Kate]

Although they seem archaic to us, the people who lived in the time of the pyramids were the modern people of their day (if that makes any sense), and they were most likely as ambitious as their modern counterparts (us, in 2004). I hope I worded that well.... it makes sense to me, hopefully it will make sense to everyone else, and NO, I am NOT DRUNK! ;) I see no reason why ancient peoples couldn't have built the pyramids.

[Aussie Jones]

Originally posted by Kate
Although they seem archaic to us, the people who lived in the time of the pyramids were the modern people of their day (if that makes any sense), and they were most likely as ambitious as their modern counterparts (us, in 2004). I hope I worded that well.... it makes sense to me, hopefully it will make sense to everyone else, and NO, I am NOT DRUNK! ;) I see no reason why ancient peoples couldn't have built the pyramids.

When I visited the pyramids I was awed by the size of them. I can't believe the ancients made huge ramps and pulled or pushed those enormous stones. (impossible)

Historians also know that the Egyptians were not as advacned as the movies show.

[Pale Horse]

The pyramid is not that advanced of a structure. Go out to your nearest sand pile, scoop up an hand full of sand, hold it about 12" above the ground, and let it pour out.

If you wound up with something besides a pyramid, let me know. There may be some odd magnetic field pulling the sand if obscure directions.

The structure doesn't surprise me, the mathematics of their placement is what drives my fascination.

[Aussie Jones]

Originally posted by Pale Horse
The pyramid is not that advanced of a structure. Go out to your nearest sand pile, scoop up an hand full of sand, hold it about 12" above the ground, and let it pour out.

If you wound up with something besides a pyramid, let me know. There may be some odd magnetic field pulling the sand if obscure directions.

The structure doesn't surprise me, the mathematics of their placement is what drives my fascination.

The size of a sand pile is a bit different to the pyramids. We couldn't build the pyramids today if we wanted to. The great pyramid is 480 feet high. How do you think they pulled the last stone up the top?

[Johan]

actually it is an advanced structure...the most stable structure you can build in fact...And I don't think aliens would take the time to build such amazing structures to house dead humans...it makes no sense....I have my own theories on the pyramids which I think make quite a bit of sense...but I won't discuss those. I have done A LOT of research on this subject and came to my own conclusion. If anyone is interested or wants to discuss let me know.

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Aussie Jones
The size of a sand pile is a bit different to the pyramids. We couldn't build the pyramids today if we wanted to. The great pyramid is 480 feet high. How do you think they pulled the last stone up the top?

There was a fascinating show on the Discovery Channel about how the pyramids were built, and if we could duplicate them today. Much of the work was demonstrated through the process of sand manuvering. I will probably slaughter this here, but it works somewhat like this:

Because sand has the ability to flow, the workers would build large cubical bases of wood, and then fill that cube up with sand (which there was plenty of). Then (slave) men women and children would roll the stones (on logs) over the sand and put each stone in place. Then the cubical box would be opened on the bottom, allowing the sand to flow out the bottom, lowering the massive stones in place. Gravity, in a sense, built the pyramids; at least according to this scientists on this show. It seems very plausable to me.

[Johan]

I agree with you on how they are made. This is what the majority of my studies show as well.

[Aaron H]

I saw a thing on PBS a few years back that some believe that the pyramids are actually a star chart, and when used in conjuction with other such great structures reveal the place where the aliens who helped built these structures live. Somehow the crystal skulls also fit into the picture...I don't remember how.

Personally, I think we under estimate our ancestors. They were smarter and more clever than we give them credit for. Who's to say that perhaps we aren't half as smart as they were.

[Pale Horse]

They didn't have anything to distract them. There was no TV. Internet etc...

[maquino]

I've always liked historian Will Cuppy's comment that the Giza Pyramids have remained standing for 5,000 years because it is not in the nature of a pyramid to tip over.

Michael Aquino

[Pale Horse]

now, if I could only get my beer bottles to do the same thing...

[Rick5150]

They are cut too precisely and fit too well for this to be "simple" mathematics, logs, sand and leverage. Imagine dropping a stone and finding it didn't line up very well. Now you are up Sh*t's Creek. Maybe there are abandoned pyramids that were not coming out as planned, I don't know.

Factor in the intricate passages and secret tunnels and you are looking at an advanced race. Whether the human race was that intelligent in the past and just turned into idiots as time went by, we cannot answer that.

As far as aliens building pyramids to house dead humans? Do we really know what the original function of these structures is? They may have a far more "functional" purpose that we haven't figured out yet. Because termites get into your house and lay eggs, doesn't mean that is why the house was built. It is possible that the reason the pyramids are used for tombs is due to the fascinating things that the early Egyptians observed taking place at them? The "magical" properties and a structure built by a being more advanced than yourself may equal a magical place - and a magical place may offer everlasting life. Isn't it what we all want in the end?

If anyone believes that our ancient ancestors built these structures, developed the secrets of mummification and the advanced hieroglyphic language depicting the future of mankind rather than the past, you should also consider that mankind must be devolving rather than evolving. If we cannot figure out with any degree of satisfaction how we did things in the past with all the intelligence we supposedly have garnered through the years, how can it be otherwise?

[Indy Benson]

Then (slave) men women and children would roll the stones (on logs) over the sand and put each stone in place

Actually, I believe they recently came to the conclusion (or speculation) that they weren't really slaves,they were volunteers who gladly helped out. I remember reading that somewhere.

[Rick5150]

Actually, I believe they recently came to the conclusion (or speculation) that they weren't really slaves,they were volunteers who gladly helped out. I remember reading that somewhere.
They gladly helped out? Yeah, and there were horsies, balloons and clowns too.

Indy Benson, please excuse my sarcasm as it is not directed at you. I have enjoyed your posts while here and I do not that to look like a jab at you, when in fact it was not.

All that we can come up with to explain things is somebody's theories. Who really knows? I know you were making a point, but I think the new thoeries are made so we don't have to look at the human race as being so barbarianistic (?) I may have made that word up, but in the time of everyone being PC, all it takes is somebody from Egypt to claim that we make them out to be something they are not in our history books and next thing you know, we change history to make them happy.

Personally, pushing tons of stones over logs in the heat of the desert all day is not an activity in which many would be glad to help, in my opinion. No offense taken, since I realize you are presenting another theory and I respect that since it keeps the thread going.

[Finn]

Horsie, I think I've seen that document too (or at least something similar).

You can practically build anything, if you have enough hands doing it. The Pharaohs sure did. And they didn't even have to worry about such things as salaries, insurance policies, proper working hours, labour health security... etcetera.

Most of the rules of math have been discovered way before natural sciences... the Egyptians were very skilled architechts.

Of course, telling it this way is far less fascinating than the theory about these things being built by a bunch of evil snakes who like to take control over human bodies.

[Rick5150]

Of course, telling it this way is far less fascinating than the theory about these things being built by a bunch of evil snakes who like to take control over human bodies.

In many cases it is not evil snakes. Evil implies moral badness. These poor snakes are only doing what they must to survive. We all know that the snakes took over the bodies of the Egyptians to force them to build these structures so they could live amongst the Earthlings. In fact, a fine documentary called "Raiders of the Lost Ark" has a scene where one of these structures is breached, exposing the Earth base of the snakes. They mean no harm...

[Finn]

Shut up, Daniel.

[Indy Benson]

I'm not saying that there weren't any slaves, but it's been suggested that there were also hired hands, and thos ethat wished to help.

Here's a few articles on the subject...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/explore/builders.html
From NOVA Online

It is believed that Giza housed a skeleton crew of workers who labored on the pyramids year round. But during the late summer and early autumn months, during the annual flooding of the fields with water from the annual innundation of the Nile flooded the fields, a large labor force would appear at Giza to put in time on the pyramids. These farmers and local villagers gathered at Giza to work for their god kings, to build their monuments to the hereafter. This would ensure their own afterlife and would also benefit the future and prosperity of Egypt as a whole. They may well have been willing workers, a labor force working for ample rations, for the benefit of man, king, and country.

HAWASS: I came to that number based on the size of the pyramid project, a government project, the size of the tombs, the cemetery. We know we can excavate the cemetery for hundreds of years -- generations after generation can work in the cemetery -- and the second is the settlement area. I really believe there were permanent workmen who were working for the king. They were paid by the king and these are the technicians who cut the stones, and there are workmen who move the stones and they come and work in rotation. You have this group and another group. In the same time there are the people who live around the pyramids that don't need to live in the pyramids. They come by early in the morning and they work fourteen hours from sunrise to sunset.


Also, check http://www.harvard-magazine.com/on-line/070391.html


http://www.nationalgeographic.com/pyramids/pyramids.html

An excerpt from the article:

Contrary to some popular depictions, the pyramid builders were not slaves or foreigners. Excavated skeletons show that they were Egyptians who lived in villages developed and overseen by the pharaoh's supervisors.

[Rick5150]

Indy Benson: I am open to any ideas at all. You can tell me the pyramids were build by preschool children during the night and with enough evidence, I will say, "Why not?" ;) I am the type of person who would need an untouched photograph of smiling Egyptians whistling while they worked to think they were gladly helping out.

Even the insinuations that they were "working for their god kings" and "This would ensure their own afterlife" make it seem like more of an insurance policy than gladly performing work. Prove to me that you can give me eternal life, and I will be out in the yard building a pyramid in a matter of minutes. Since I live in New Hampshire (aka "The Granite State") finding material should not be a problem. I guess I should check with the Zoning board first...

[Indy Benson]

Hahaha! Ok, ok, I won't try to convince you. I'm just going by what the experts have said.

Meanwhile, I'll get to work on Photoshop and come up with those smiling Egyptians for you. :)

[Rick5150]

Thanks Indy Benson. I appreciate it. I am still working on making a Photoshop image of the smiling slaves that were digging the Grand Canyon or I would do it myself ;)

[Pale Horse]

I thought the Grand Canyon was the result of an ancient UFO disaster site, when a saucer crash landed in the South Western part of Northern America causing the huge trench. Then the flood came, and the saucer floated indefinately until it finally succumed to the water, and suck to the bottom of what is now the Pacific Ocean. Everyone knows it's there, but "they" don't want to reveal that, so we have the cockamamey story that the ocean is "too deep" for us to explore. ;)

[westford]

Originally posted by Indy Benson
Actually, I believe they recently came to the conclusion (or speculation) that they weren't really slaves,they were volunteers who gladly helped out. I remember reading that somewhere.
I'm with Benson (kinda) on this one.

In ancient Egypt, the pharaoh was seen as a god, or as the people's representative among the gods. It was believed at one time that the god Horus entered the body of the pharaoh's father at the time of conception, so that the pharaoh was half-god, half-human. (Of course, this could have been a rumour put about by pharaohs to make people do what they said... ;) )

Anyway, when it came to building monuments such as the pyramids, the pharaoh had architects, etc, to plan it for him/her, and a massive workforce who believed it was in their best interests to keep the pharaoh and the gods, happy. Pharaoh says 'jump', you say 'how high?'

[Rick5150]

Anyway, when it came to building monuments such as the pyramids, the pharaoh had architects, etc, to plan it for him/her...
Okay, so show me the original blueprints ;) I know, I know, they were drawn in the sand with a stick...

[Finn]

You know, I think they used <i>papyrus</i>.

But go figure, same thing... that stuff decapacitates in decades.

[TombReader]

'If anyone believes that our ancient ancestors built these structures, developed the secrets of mummification and the advanced hieroglyphic language depicting the future of mankind rather than the past, you should also consider that mankind must be devolving rather than evolving. If we cannot figure out with any degree of satisfaction how we did things in the past with all the intelligence we supposedly have garnered through the years, how can it be otherwise?'

This type of thinking is called 'ethnocentricity'.It implies that our present day civilization represents the height of achievement in culture and intellect,which may not be true.

[Rick5150]

This type of thinking is called 'ethnocentricity'.It implies that our present day civilization represents the height of achievement in culture and intellect,which may not be true.

I do not think that I implied that we have reached the "height" of anything, just that our intelligence has declined since the building of the pyramids. If our ancestors achieved the level of architectural skills to do what they did using what they had, that we are going the wrong way if we can not continue to do so. I thought ethnocentricity was based on one's own ethnic group. If that was implied, I sincerely apologize, since that was not the meaning at all - that is why I chose the word "mankind." I never claimed to be literate.

[westford]

Originally posted by Rick5150
I do not think that I implied that we have reached the "height" of anything, just that our intelligence has declined since the building of the pyramids.
Has it? Or are there just more stupid people in the world to 'dilute' the intelligence...? ;)

[Rick5150]

Has it? Or are there just more stupid people in the world to 'dilute' the intelligence...?
I can give a goofy theory on anything. Watch...
Due to the fact that we have wiped out many diseases and have surgeons now that do heart transplants with one hand while reading a book with the other the human race is living longer than it should. This means that the strong are not the only ones to survive and the genetically deficient people are now living to reproduce and pass on their genes to the next generation. These people need a little chlorine in their gene pool if you get my drift. I think Charlie insinuated something about this in one of his posts - the people that have family trees with only one branch. Read the Darwin Awards for excellent examples of these folk that show that for every single invention you can come up with, someone will do something stupid with it and kill themselves. You are probably more correct than you think Westford ;)

[monkey]

Great thread!!!

"This type of thinking is called 'ethnocentricity'.It implies that our present day civilization represents the height of achievement in culture and intellect,which may not be true".

GREAT STATEMENT TOMBREADER!!! You are so on the mark!!

"I personally think that humans were quite advanced at one time in history, but about three or four thousand years ago we were set back a bit (think "big flood")".

EXACTLY AARON!!

Though I would place the great flood more at about 11,000 years ago (the Age of Leo). Think about the extermination of the great Pleistocene mammals. The Great Flood was a very real event.

The Great Pyramids were not built as tombs. The fact that they were used as such by later generations does not change that fact.

[Aaron H]

Here's a theory to try on for size...

Atlantis was once a real an powerful civilization...however, not as we have been told it.
Instead this great civ. was highly advanced and was the only civilization on the planet at the time. Through unexplainable events this civilization was brought to ruin...for fun lets thrown in the Great Flood mention in the Bible...and the remaining few people repopulated the Earth with only a dim memory of what used to be.

Lets say that this great flood cause a dramatic shift in the continents creating a planet layout similar to what it is today. Now lets also say that the capital of this great civilization was located in now modern-day Antartica.

The survivors of this flood mimic what used to be, by building great structures of their own that at least bring back the vauge memories of this great civilization. Remember the Egyptians weren't the only ones to build pyramids. The western and eastern cultures also had their fair share in the building action.

What I'm getting at is that I ahere to the theory of a pre-recorded history civilization that was highly advanced, but all thei knowledge has since been lost and what they did was only mimicked by the other civilizations that were to follow.

This also brings about another great discussion about crystal and obsidian skulls, as well as other unexplainable artifacts that have been found.

[monkey]

WOW!!

Aaron, I can only say that we are so totally on the same plane with this!!

Your theory is so close to mine!! In fact it is just about exactly the same as my theories and ideas.

[Aaron H]

Go see Alien vs. Predator. They have a similar theory as the central part of the storyline...not to mention is not a half-bad movie. My only wish is that the movie filled in a bit more about this mysterious civilization.

I think there are several in the scientific community have a similar theory. It doesn't make sense on how cultures so far apart, and so distant in their own ways, could have so many similarities.

[mra]

"you should also consider that mankind must be devolving rather than evolving."
" "I personally think that humans were quite advanced at one time in history, but about three or four thousand years ago we were set back a bit (think "big flood")."

OK, I will think big flood. The climate and atmosphere would have changed greatly. If there was a higher percentage of oxygen in the air, and the air pressure was greater, everything would have been bigger. Plants and animals, and humans. And we have found XL giant fossils. Add the extra strength per pound multiplied by the added size of the humans, and the pyramid would have been easier to build as far as moving huge stones around.
As far as the precision of the stones, and the angles of the various features pointing to stars and cities, the rich atmosphere would have let humans live longer, and be more intelligent. They would have learned more for both reasons.

Lots of info here...
http://greatpyramid.org/aip/gr-pyr1.htm
and here
http://gizapyramid.com/overview.htm

[TombReader]

'The Great Pyramids were not built as tombs. The fact that they were used as such by later generations does not change that fact.'

Anyone care to enlighten me as to their true purpose then?

[Aaron H]

Some speculate that they are in fact a part of a giant calandar or perhaps an early observatory. Later Egyptian pyramids were nothing but knock-offs.
I'm not so sure of these theories, but they do make some sense.

[monkey]

I believe that the Pyramids are a storehouse of ancient knowledge. Much of this knowledge is mathematical and relates to the Earth and the Heavens.

One of the pieces of information encoded in the pyramids is the number Pi. There are others too such as trigonometric principles. and then of course there is the relative measurements with regard to the Earth.

I believe that there is much knowledge that is yet to be discovered.

[Pilot]

Even if ancient humans were quite advanced, one aspect has not changed in thousands of years: they had the same behavioral patterns and flaws that we do today.

[monkey]

How do you know that for certain?

Maybe they didn't.

Maybe they achieved a higher level of Humanity than we have reached today.

[Pale Horse]

I think the only thing that has changed about the modern human culture of today is this, motivation. Our motivations are manifiested in the different areas of science and humanities. We are not different in any other way.

You all know I like obscure passages in the Bible, consider this:

"The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them."

Let that sink on for a bit, as you consider that the event referenced above, towers over the pyramids.

I'd say that if the Pyramids were at 12:00 on a clock and the Dark Ages were at 6:00 on the same clock, today we are sitting at about 11:54, almost full circle back to where we started.

[Johan]

our motives are selfish and immoral

[Pale Horse]

Perhaps, but how is that the same or different than the Mesopotamians, or the Eqyptians, or the ancient Greeks?

[Pilot]

The reason I know that human nature has not changed is that history records that people were selfish, greedy, mean-spirited, prideful, jealous, kind, gentle, loving, etc. just as they are today. For every example of good or bad behavior you can find today, you can find examples of the same behavior in ancient times.

[monkey]

But that's just it, that is RECORDED history.

If we are to talk about a long vanished ancient world civilization (and there is evidence of it), then we don't really have any RECORDS of that civilization/society.

The Pyramids, Tiahuanaco, The Sphinx, the legends of the Great Flood, the legends of Atlantis.....on and on.

If this civilization did exist at one time, it's not impossible that they had reached a level of altruism that we are far away from today. .....Or maybe they were just like us. But we can't know for certain.

[Pale Horse]

I never subscribed to ancient civilization. But that is because I don't believe the world to be ancient, as well. To me, it negates the current man, by hoping for something better from those before us. By standing in awe of the simplistic nature of society, we continually add to the diminutive quality of our own current state we live in. It gives us a way out for our unacheived existance, not a pillar of responsibility to stand on for those around us.

Mind you this is only a commentary and quite possibly a narrow view of the world, and humanity as I have come to realize it.

[Rick5150]

http://www.geopolymer.org/science_archaeology/book/pyramid_construction_theory.htm
This book claims that the "great pyramids of Egypt were built with re-agglomerated stones, a natural limestone made like concrete." I have an easier time believing this than all the smiling happy non-slaves pushing tons of stone up ramps in the desert. Supposedly this guy has proof (http://www.geopolymer.org/science_archaeology/book/pyramid_construction_theory.htm).

Some of the things here (http://www.crystalinks.com/gpstats.html) cannot be explained away though...

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Rick5150

Some of the things here (http://www.crystalinks.com/gpstats.html) cannot be explained away though...

What things are you refereing to?

[Pilot]

I don't deny the possibility of an ancient civilization that was also altruistic compared to modern man. If they did exist in such a state, why didn't they last longer. My observations of history tell me that empires, nations, and city-states lasted until they fell into decay, morally. Moral decay is based in self-centeredness. When people act out of selfish desires, they cause problems for themselves and everyone else. The ancient Hebrews are one example, as long as they followed God's standards of behavior, they enjoyed peace and prosperity. As soon as they abandoned those standards, they encountered problems until they were eventually carried away into captivity.

There may have existed a highly advanced civilization that made modern man look like cavemen in comparison, but as yet I've seen no evidence of it. If one did exist, it was plagued with the same human nature problems we have today.

[Rick5150]

What things are you refereing to.

The average height of land above sea level for the earth is 5449 inches. This is also the height of the pyramid...

The Great Pyramid is the most accurately aligned structure in existence and faces true north with only 3/60th of a degree of error. The position of the North Pole moves over time and the pyramid was probably exactly aligned at one time.

The Great Pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth. The east/west parallel that crosses the most land and the north/south meridian that crosses the most land intersect in two places on the earth, one in the ocean and the other at the Great Pyramid.

"If true, this indicates knowledge beyond the scope of their abilities. How can they possibly have known the average height of land for the earth?

It kind of makes you wonder what is in the ocean where the east/west parallel crosses...

[monkey]

Pilot, you ask if there was such an ancient civilization that predated recorded history then "why didn't it last?"

That's the whole basis of the predominant theories concerning it:

The theory is that this ancient world civilization was destroyed by a major Earth cataclysm.

My own theory about it is that this ancient civilization was destroyed when an Earth crustal displacement took place some time around 11,000 years ago.

If you are interested in the theory of Earth crustal displacement it is a theory put forth by a man named Charles Hapgood, and supported by a somewhat famous scientist named Albert Einstein.

But whether it existed or not, I am not claiming that it was altruistic or without evils, I am only saying that it can't be proven one way or the other.

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Rick5150
The average height of land above sea level for the earth is 5449 inches. This is also the height of the pyramid...

The Great Pyramid is the most accurately aligned structure in existence and faces true north with only 3/60th of a degree of error. The position of the North Pole moves over time and the pyramid was probably exactly aligned at one time.

The Great Pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth. The east/west parallel that crosses the most land and the north/south meridian that crosses the most land intersect in two places on the earth, one in the ocean and the other at the Great Pyramid.

"If true, this indicates knowledge beyond the scope of their abilities. How can they possibly have known the average height of land for the earth?

It kind of makes you wonder what is in the ocean where the east/west parallel crosses...

Still wrestleing some of these, not so much the height of land, as that changes and seems a rather convenient coincidence, but the land mass one is very intriguing, though I don't believe it is necessarily beyond our scope. The astonomical relationship is also very understandable. It is one of the things that our society has lost, along with our birds and the like, the ability to navigate and orient ourselves simply with the stars...

[monkey]

[i] It is one of the things that our society has lost, along with our birds and the like, the ability to navigate and orient ourselves simply with the stars... [/B]

Exactly PH

[Rick5150]

Still wrestleing some of these, not so much the height of land, as that changes and seems a rather convenient coincidence, but the land mass one is very intriguing, though I don't believe it is necessarily beyond our scope.
Hey, I am not saying I believe all this. I think a lot of it is coincidence or simply one of the sleight of hand mathematical games that gives you the results you are "supposed" to get.

Some of the "facts" are a lot like saying "if you take everybody in the world's street address number, add them together and divide that by their average ages and then multiply that by the distance from the earth to the sun (in inches) and divide that by the number of how many pets we owned in 1974, it exactly equals the number of insects thought to be in Egypt divided by the number of gallons of water that were in the Nile (in those days)which of course equals the amount of dust particles in found on the great pyramid during lent. It had to be Aliens. How could we forsee this?" With enough manipulation, you will make a match.

My position here is not what I necessarily believe, but to give alternate theories to keep these ideas coming. I think it is a great debate, but if everybody is going to take the same side, it will be a short one. No matter what evidence is presented, it has not been strong enough in my opinion to completely support any theories yet. If the answers are so obvious, we should be able to build a full-scale replica of the great pyramid using only the tools that were available to the ancient Egyptians. Not just stacking the blocks, but include all the chambers and get them to be within 1/60 of an inch without tape measures and micrometers.

It is statements like this that get me thinking:
"The mortar used is of an unknown origin. It has been analyzed and it's chemical composition is known but it can't be reproduced. It is stronger than the stone and still holding up today."

[Pilot]

For my part, I am always interested in learning about ancient civilizations, advanced or not. Likewise, I am always interested in hearing theories that attempt to explain the phenomena and circumstantial evidence we observe today. The evidence we have today appears to point toward one or more highly advanced civilizations existing in the past. How highly advanced? I don't know. More advanced than we are today? I don't know. All I know is that it is easy to misinterpret data. It is also easy for us today to assume that ancient civilizations were far less advanced than we think. Remember the ice man found in the Alps? The scientists who studied him and his clothing and equipment found that he was more advance than they originally thought. I am one of those who think that skills and knowledge are lost over time and over generations. For example, many skills that were common in the 19th century, such as blacksmithing, are hardly practiced anymore. The same thing applies to the knowledge and skills of the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians, etc. Again, I am always willing to discuss theories concerning these matters, because I learn something new each time, which usually prompts more questions.

[Pale Horse]

Originally posted by Rick5150
It is statements like this that get me thinking:
"The mortar used is of an unknown origin. It has been analyzed and it's chemical composition is known but it can't be reproduced. It is stronger than the stone and still holding up today."

Funny what happens when you add enough blood to the mix... :D

Can't wait till they determine the reason Yankee Stadium has so much strength behind it is because they remodeled it with the remains of Jimmy Hoffa...

[Rick5150]

This is an interesting thread, for sure.

I was watching some workers repair the concrete from an 8-story building that was only about 20 years old. I began speaking to one of the workers who had come down from the scaffolding to take a break. He said it is common to have the cement deteriorate in 10-20 years and need repair. You have buildings from long ago that have withstood way more abuse than these buildings ever will. Cheap materials?

Funny what happens when you add enough blood to the mix...
Some of the best inventions were discovered by accident. You may be onto something.

[maquino]

A fun site for poking around in this subject:

http://www.gizapyramid.com/

I might also mention that the GP plays a key part in _Secret of the Lost Ark_ at:

http://www.xeper.org/maquino

but won't spoil the story with details. :)

Michael Aquino