Why Do We Love Temple of Doom? [Archive]

Jay R. Zay

08-05-2006, 11:32 AM

"the so-called "humor" is nothing but childish low-level slapstick gags"

Better than the cartoon that is Last Crusade, in my book

not in mine, though. the LC humor was ironic. it was full of humor and not always great one. but on the whole, i liked the humor very much as it didn't live in the obvious jokes but in the way that the humorous situations were constructed. ToD's jokes were like sketches, the LC jokes were connected to the story. and while ToD was entirely lacking subtle and/or sophisticated humor, LC had many of it. LC wasn't more serious, it just was a more mature kind of humor.

08-05-2006, 11:35 AM

Indiana Jones is an action hero, not a humorous comedy character.

ClintonHammond

08-05-2006, 11:43 AM

Jay R. Zay

08-05-2006, 11:46 AM

Indiana Jones is an action hero, not a humorous comedy character.

surprisingly he starred in two of three movies that showed a higher-than-average amount of humor.

then again, movies surely can't capture his real life personality... :rolleyes:

but as hard as i try i can't find where i called him "a humorous comedy character". if this was the unit by which we measure the quality of indy-movies, ToD probably would be found much higher on the comedy scale. because, as opposing to LC, in ToD the story supports the gags, not vice versa.

08-05-2006, 11:59 AM

ClintonHammond

08-05-2006, 12:08 PM

I wouldn't say that LC 'sucked' in the least... It was more than fun enough.... but it was way more cartooney, way more of a parody of the "Adventure Movie" than it was a serious film.... Almost like a well done Mell Brooks movie....

Of the three, it's probably my least favourite, but it still rates pretty damn high over the majority of movies that are out there

ToD on the other hand, has all the elements that make for a damn good adventure movie in my book.... so of the three, it's my fave... edging out Raiders by the narrowest margin, because the overall tone of ToD is 'darker'....

08-05-2006, 12:10 PM

it was way more cartooney, way more of a parody of the "Adventure Movie" than it was a serious film.... Almost like a well done Mell Brooks movie....

Of the three, it's probably my least favourite, but it still rates pretty damn high over the majority of movies that are out there

My thoughts exactly. Worse than Raiders and ToD, but still much better than many movies.

Jay R. Zay

08-05-2006, 12:13 PM

Surprisingly there was a lot of humor in LC and the movie sucked. The first thing you mentioned while explaining why you didn't like ToD was humor, so I naturally picked that and exaggerated the point a bit.

i just wanted to state why humor very well plays a role in the indy movies. you can't say "okay, it's not a comedy so our jokes can be crappy as hell". if you can't handle humor, simply keep it out of the movie. and don't fill it up with it. ToJ had more humor than some real comedies so i think it should be valid to mention that it was bad.

if you can't handle sex scenes, as well you shouldn't have sex scenes in your movie. if you don't know how to do a car chase - don't use it in your movie. if you don't have the money to do the effects well, don't make a movie that entirely relies on them (see "LXG", for example, filled with CGI despite the fact that the CGI was lousy. see "immortal", a movie that mostly consisted of CGI except for the main characters filmed in front of a blue screen: the CGI was horrible sometimes).

the first Indy movie did well without much humor (gags like "try the local sewer" are nice but not a real burner), so if they didn't know how to use humor, they simply could have left it out of ToD - instead of making it a series of slapstick sketches.

I wouldn't say that LC 'sucked' in the least... It was more than fun enough.... but it was way more cartooney

the problem is that i find no real english equivalents for the words i'd use to describe the movies. LC, for me, was "albern" in a positive way, "frivolous" perhaps. ToD simply was "niveaulos", lacking style.

if we look as many home movie comedies, i frequently find ToD-style humor but hardly ever LC-style humor. those comedies tend to be regarded funny only by those who filmed them and a very small group of others. excluding myself for example.

ClintonHammond

08-05-2006, 12:29 PM

"LC, for me, was... "frivolous" perhaps"

That's a wonderful description of LC... I agree... though I might not paint it in as positive a light as you might.... I found the frivolity distracting more than I found it complimentary....

"ToD simply was... lacking style"
ToD had 'style' up the wazoo! It was WAY more in the 'style' of historic adventure movies, especially the serials upon which Indy draws most of his inspiration, than either Raiders (A close 2nd) or LC (3rd, but still better than a TON of movies)

I suspect one could easily take ToD, grey-scale it, chop it into 10-15 minute segments and run it side by side with the best of the old Adventure Serials and it'd play quite nicely.

"i find no real english equivalents for the words i'd use"
English can be a frail and inflexable language....

Indyologist

08-05-2006, 02:31 PM

"just was a more mature kind of humor"

Just goes to show how different people can see one thing in two totally different ways.... cause I wouldn't call thge humour in LC 'mature' in the least.....

"not a humorous comedy character"
He sure was in LC

Case in point: A very undignified Indy rolling down the stairs to the boat dock level in LC, his shadow following after. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/hahaha.gif

Classic Stooges move, wouldn't you say?

Later he says with a bloodthirsty growl: "All I have to do is squeeze," which creeps me out every time. Hard to believe it was the same guy who rolled head over arse down a flight of stairs.

Yes, some of the humor was definately more mature, but it also has some of that signature goofy Indy humor involving
smart-aleck quips and sight gags.

Personally, I love the way LC seems to poke holes in Indy's roughness and pride in an "Indiana Jones Roast" kind of way. Indy came off as kind of a jerk in some ways in LC, and I loved it.

But back on topic as to why you love Temple of Doom!

ClintonHammond

08-06-2006, 10:54 AM

"Indy came off as kind of a jerk in some ways in LC, and I loved it."
He's way worse that that in ToD.... He's a hard man, a serious bad-a$$, wanted all over the world for theft and other abuses...

ToD is where Indy is at his best

roundshort

08-06-2006, 01:51 PM

For me it is all aboutt he opening scence, the fight in Club Obi is second only to the truck chase in ROTA. Indy does not talk to much in ToD, which reminds me of the man of action in the old cowboy novels. He was tight lipped and a bad ass.

Jay R. Zay

08-06-2006, 02:32 PM

I suspect one could easily take ToD, grey-scale it, chop it into 10-15 minute segments and run it side by side with the best of the old Adventure Serials and it'd play quite nicely.

with this i'd agree entirely. including (my point) the outdated humor from the 50s and 60s that, in later times, mostly remained in use in japanese and chinese movies whose professional movie industry was rather young.

but actually there is no point in arguing about that. i didn't like the humor, i found it merely cheap and shallow. most of the jokes simply annoyed me while LC actually made me grin quite frequently. perhaps it's a highly individual matter of perception.

"i find no real english equivalents for the words i'd use"
English can be a frail and inflexable language....

it indeed can, but i tend to believe that it is so to me because it isn't my native language and i don't know it well. i think there very well are the equivalents i was looking for, i just don't know them. :)

Lon

08-06-2006, 02:38 PM

indy_123

08-06-2006, 03:22 PM

I loved the temple of dooom because it was my first Indiana Jones movie I ever seen and because it's sooo different then the others! I think what makes this movie kick@$$$ is because of Willie, she is the best in this movie and shorty he's funny to, like when he says the funniest stuff like...

Shorty: "Hey Dr. Jones no time for love, we got company"'

This is why I love TOD because it's funny. Another reason I like TOD is because of the storyline, it's so different and interesting. This is why I love TOD sooooo much :)

Violet Indy

08-06-2006, 07:35 PM

Like ToD, hate Willie. Spielberg and Lucas should have kept to the idea of Marion being in all the films with Indy. :whip:

monstera

08-06-2006, 08:46 PM

i just love it. and as a pulp fan, i love all the classic pulp elements in it. it's more hardcore pulp than the other flicks and that gives me a nerdgasm.

spohlso

08-06-2006, 09:51 PM

brain anurism.

Indyologist

08-06-2006, 11:57 PM

Like ToD, hate Willie. Spielberg and Lucas should have kept to the idea of Marion being in all the films with Indy. :whip:

Now how DID I know you would say something like that, VI? :rolleyes:

i just love it... that gives me a nerdgasm.

Nerdgasm? LOL! Never heard that one before! Sounds like somethings that happens to tekkie-types when they get a new Blackberry!

I know this is off topic, but I heard an amazing new word on one of those daytime-court-tv shows. The defendent said his ex-girlfriend went "oprahcratic" on him.

Judge says, "oprahcratic? Like the Oprah show?"

"Yeah," the guy says, "she was trying to be all nice and everything, but she was really controlling everything in the background."

I guess it's like being a closet control freak but you try to hide the fact from others by being nice. LOL! That's one for a slang dictionary!

Rod The Raider

08-07-2006, 05:23 AM

Temple of Doom was a great bridge between Raiders and Crusade. It balances out the three films quite nicely. For me Shortround isn't annoying, he's funny. Willie doesn't get on my nerves either because she's supposed to be like that, she's supposed to be the opposite of Marion. Willie was the stereotypical damsel in distress screaming all the time, it was an intentional characterisation.

Last Crusade has a lot more humour than the first and second in my opinion. Marcus is a prime example. He's a very serious character in Raiders and in Crusade he's a bumbling fool. This doesn't annoy me. He's supposed to be like that when he's out of his own environment. It was part of his characterisation.

Last Crusade has more humour because that was Spielberg's intentions. After the dark storyline of Doom he wanted a much lighter tone for Crusade. Changing Marcus's character and having the humourous rapport between Indy and his father acheived this.

Raiders had humour of course. It was just a different type of humour than Doom and Crusade.

08-07-2006, 11:38 AM

Marcus is a prime example. He's a very serious character in Raiders and in Crusade he's a bumbling fool. This doesn't annoy me. He's supposed to be like that when he's out of his own environment. It was part of his characterisation.

Actually I think that Marcus wasn't supposed to be a bumbling fool in Raiders, remember when he said that five years ago he would've gone after the Ark himself.

Spielberg and Lucas should have kept to the idea of Marion being in all the films with Indy. :whip:

There is no such idea, Marion is just an another girlfriend.

Rod The Raider

08-07-2006, 06:29 PM

"Actually I think that Marcus wasn't supposed to be a bumbling fool in Raiders, remember when he said that five years ago he would've gone after the Ark himself."

No not in Raiders. In Crusade he is.

Violet Indy

08-07-2006, 08:01 PM

There is no such idea, Marion is just an another girlfriend.

I've read that in a couple of Lucas,Speilberg and Harrison Film books and biography. If you're got that many books stating that fact, then there might be some truth to it.

Now how DID I know you would say something like that, VI? :rolleyes:

Well, I could have pulled out the BRING BACK MARION post, but I think I've put everyone through enough pain by doing that. I'm more mature than yesterday. Yay, I'm 18!:whip:

ElodieJones

08-08-2006, 07:22 AM

I don't love Temple of Doom.
But I like it better than Last Crusade.

What do I like in Temple of Doom:

- The Bridge scene
- The mine car scene
- The Indian jungle
- Saving the children
- Willie Scott character

ClintonHammond

08-08-2006, 11:01 AM

I was on board with you until the last one, EJ.... I can't STAND Willie....

I wish Willie had been in Last Crusade.... 'Dad' had been in Raiders, and Marion had been in Temple.....

roundshort

08-08-2006, 03:48 PM

Just a good movie, I even liked the dynamic of Willie and Indy, for me it is just a movie, a time waster, and this is better than allmost all others.

Joe Brody

08-09-2006, 06:45 PM

Just a good movie, I even liked the dynamic of Willie and Indy, for me it is just a movie, a time waster, and this is better than allmost all others.

I have to admit -- Indy's ToD conduct and hookup with Willie is valuable to substantiate the true character -- especially any thought that at some point Indy and Marion got together and lived happily ever-after-until-the-end-of-their-days. Elsa is gravy in this regard.

Webley

08-09-2006, 06:47 PM

I don't love Temple of Doom.
But I like it better than Last Crusade.

Yep Temple of Doom kicks Crusades ass:whip:

Its just that simplehttp://67.18.37.15/1249/135/emo/d932619b.gif

IndyBuff

08-09-2006, 09:06 PM

I've always loved Temple of Doom and it's a shame that more fans don't like it. The producers chose to take the series in a different and darker direction and I think it worked extremeley well. We get to see Indy take on more of a father-figure role and also deal with a woman who has obviously never had any adventure experience. The whole thing is completely unplanned and yet he still manages to fight his way out of it.

That's just my two cents but I think it's a great film with many positive aspects.:whip:

HovitosKing

08-09-2006, 10:35 PM

- The Bridge scene
- The mine car scene
- The Indian jungle

Yes, yes, yes!

- Willie Scott character

Actually, yes. Real-life Willie Scotts I can't stand...in the movie she's somewhat endearing. I can't explain it...it's cwazy...but I kinda like her after all.

That having been said, I LOVE ToD!! Not saying it's my FAVORITE...but it's definitely tied for second.

Gustav

08-10-2006, 12:14 PM

I love Temple of Doom because it doesn't try to be a carbon copy of Raiders of the Lost Ark the way Last Crusade does. The character is taken and put through a completely different type of adventure. Even though the adventure is different in style and tone, it still fits the character. Sequels always need to up things a notch and ToD certainly does that.

I completely agree. ToD couldn't have been more different and still be in the same series. That's why I love it. Indiana Jones is just going along. It starts in a high-class club in Shanghai and one unforeseen even leads to another until Indy is hanging off a broken rope bridge over a chasm with hungry crocodiles at the bottom about to have his heart ripped out by a mad thuggee cult leader. The whole thing is comepletely unplanned and uncivilized unlike the other two films. It also shows Indiana Jones interact with other cultures and environments that the other two films couldn't have brought him to encounter.

There is no such idea, Marion is just an another girlfriend.

I don't think so. There are indications that he has a history with Marion unlike Willie and Elsa who he meets for the first time in their designated films. Marion also seems to have more of an affect on him, especially in the scene on the ship. I couldn't see that scene happening with Willie or Elsa.

ClintonHammond

08-10-2006, 12:37 PM

"The whole thing is comepletely unplanned and uncivilized"
What a wonderful way to put it!! LOL

"Marion also seems to have more of an affect on him, especially in the scene on the ship. I couldn't see that scene happening with Willie or Elsa"
I agree.... Marion is the fem that seems to have got most under Indys skin... but.... Ummm.... Bantu Wind Love scene.... same as Venice Love Scene... and mostly the same as the Pankot Palace Love Scene (Sans copulation)

Nathaniel

09-06-2006, 02:27 PM

Temple of Doom is wonderful in so many ways. It tells the story of a man who travels across the spectrum of being completely wrapped up in himself and his own interests to risking his life, his fortune and his glory to free the slave children.

It tells the story of a conceited woman who transforms overnight when a real man comes into her life.

Finally, it shows what a difference one man can have in the lives of so many: the lives of all who would have been sacrificed in future Thuggee ceremonies, the lives of the slave children, the lives of the desolated Indian villagers, the life of a nightclub singer and the life of an orphaned Chinese boy who just wants someone to look up to.

Temple of Doom, while not quite Raiders, is spectacular.

LovelyLionTamer

12-20-2006, 09:51 AM

It's funny, intense, romantic (somewhat), and SUPER action-packed! Ford is shirtless, the plot is a heck of a lot interesting, and there's a short chinese kid to sum it all up! What more can you ask for? :cool:

MissDefense

12-20-2006, 10:50 AM

TOD is the one I like less.But the good things about it were that it was completely different form Raiders,a bit darker but funny,and with that spectaculare scene on the bridge!

oki9Sedo

12-30-2006, 02:44 PM

I thought the comments made on the "hate Temple" thread were interesting, so I thought I'd make a counter-thread on why those of you here love Temple of Doom.

So if you love T of D, why do you?

The most common criticisms are: Willie's annoying, its too dark

I liked the dynamic between Willie and Indy, particularly in the "I'll tell you in the morning" scene. That was very funny.

As for the its too dark stuff, well its definitely the darkest of the three by far and the least suitable for young children, but I still love the fact that they did something very different for the sequel, but at the same time it feels like its set in the same world. The whole point is that "Indy goes to hell and survives to fight another adventure", as Spielberg said himself.

René Belloq

01-27-2007, 10:07 PM

Short Round the coolest character in the series.

Fish1941

01-28-2007, 04:58 AM

I love Temple of Doom more than the other Indy films because it seems more of an adventure than the other two (if that's possible). I like the dialogue more than the other two and I feel that it has the best ending.

JK_Antwon

02-12-2007, 04:34 AM

I thought TOD had the right amount of comedy, and action. It is by far my favorite!:D

Matinee Idyll

02-14-2007, 06:42 AM

Willie running about getting spooked by the stuffed animals in the jungle - falling in the water, and her numerous 'touchy' encounters with elephants?

There's alot of dumb humour in ToD, loads of it, but it's balanced out by the sadistic torture and violence. The whole film manages to balance on a knife edge (without falling off, well not often - but it clambers back up) between the two contrasting 'ideas'.

Some people would see this as a negative, that, "The film can't decide if it wants to be horror or comedy" - but that's the beauty of it. The humour ain't really 'dark', it actually keeps the film bouyant for much of the running time - Relief from the interminable nastiness of the Thugee ceremonies and things.

That said, I think the humour in LC was, well... funnier. It was a more lighthearted romp, which was a nice change.

"What happens at 11 o clock?"

"Son, I'm sorry... they got us."

Brilliant.

The Adventurer

02-14-2007, 08:13 AM

"Why Do We Love Temple of Doom?" ...well, I like adventure, humour on the edge of danger, old artefacts, exotic views...what else...the Indy style of turn the situations on his side...and a 100 other reasons.:whip:
Still it is 3rd in my list, after "Last Crusade" and "Riders Of The Lost Ark"...not always, it depends on my mood.:up:

kongisking

02-27-2007, 10:03 AM

Although Last Crusade is my personal favorite of the series (the first one I saw, see), Temple of Doom boasts the most action, excitement, and inventive sequences of the Indy movies. It is my second favorite after Crusade (Raiders is on the bottom of my list, yes. You have permission to lynch me), but it still is very special to me.

I think the main reason why fans are lukewarm toward Temple is because Willie and Shorty are considered annoying by many (I don't believe that), the Nazis are not in the film, the action can sometimes become so large in scale it's hard to suspend disbelief, and it's so dark in tone.

Much of the critisism (i hope i spelled that right) against this movie can be rather harsh and sometimes downright unfair. People complain that Indy in this movie doesn't act like Indy? It's Spielberg and Lucas' character, people! They can do whatever they want with their creations! Sometimes this can be bad (wittness the Star Wars prequels), but i will still always love Temple of Doom.

(Make fun of me all you want.)

Baron Brunwald

02-27-2007, 01:42 PM

Unfortunately ToD is at the bottom of my Indy list. Raiders and Last Crusade were just TOO good to be in the same ranks as ToD. Don't get me wrong, I still love it, it just isn't up to the caliber of Last Crusade, in my books at least.

Even though the bridge scene and mine car chase were awesome, they just don't compare to the tank chase, plane chase, Raider's opening quest, and the opening of the ark.

James

02-27-2007, 04:30 PM

For me, it's all about the village scene where Indy translates the story of the missing stone.

Despite the broad attempts to inject comedy, there's a certain weight to Ford's performance in TOD. I also like the reluctant hero aspect of it, and the fact that it's filled with iconic Indy moments (ie. rope bridge; the mine cart slowing revealing Indy to the Thuggee guard; etc.)

It was a bold move to follow Raiders with such a dramatic departure. Not everything works or holds up 20 years later, but it's definitely a worthy entry.

JK_Antwon

02-28-2007, 08:37 PM

kongisking you didn't like the star wars prequels! What the heck is wrong with you! Man you must be crazy!

ok I have poked my fun, I'm done!:D

Katarn07

03-01-2007, 12:36 PM

The opening scene in Bejing is well worth the price of admission. That's not the only reason I love it. There are very few moments in the Indy movies I don't like.

Baron Brunwald

03-01-2007, 01:09 PM

kongisking you didn't like the star wars prequels! What the heck is wrong with you! Man you must be crazy!

ok I have poked my fun, I'm done!:D

Prequel haters will feel the wrath
http://starwars.wikia.com/images/thumb/9/95/DarthSidious-DarthVader.jpg/250px-DarthSidious-DarthVader.jpg

03-01-2007, 02:52 PM

The opening scene in Bejing is well worth the price of admission.
It's Shanghai, 1935 you dolt. :whip:

Katarn07

03-02-2007, 11:10 AM

It's Shanghai, 1935 you dolt. :whip:

Heh, and originally I almost wrote Hong Kong :o

Vlad Dracula

03-06-2007, 11:46 PM

Two words.

Mola Ram

Coolest spookiest Indy villain in my opinon.

deveraux

03-07-2007, 02:23 PM

I love ToD, because the story takes place in india, and because of John Williams's fabulous "March Of The Slave Children" :D

Baron Brunwald

03-07-2007, 03:41 PM

I love ToD, because the story takes place in india, and because of John Williams's fabulous "March Of The Slave Children" :D

"March of the Slave Children" is nothing compared to "Belly of the Steel Beast";)

03-08-2007, 05:44 AM

"March of the Slave Children" is nothing compared to "Slave Children's Crusade". ;)

deveraux

03-08-2007, 06:59 AM

"March of the Slave Children" is nothing compared to "Slave Children's Crusade". ;)

ough... you right :o

But did you notice, in the extended edition it seems to has no name ...and on "John Williams Greatest Hits 1969-1999" it's even called "Parade Of The Slave Children" ... veeery confusing :D

03-08-2007, 01:24 PM

I've heard Parade before, but not March.

Baron Brunwald

03-08-2007, 02:15 PM

I've heard Parade before, but not March.

Mine is actually called "Slave Children's Crusde". I have no mach or parade :(

03-08-2007, 02:28 PM

The official name is Crusade.

deveraux

03-08-2007, 03:19 PM

The official name is Crusade.

yes you're right, but in the official John Williams Songbook it's definitely called "March", though it's the same song

(scroll down a bit to the tracklist)
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/pages.html?cart=338235837939441615&target=smp_detail.html%26sku%3DAP.PFM0008&s=pages-www.google.de/search&e=/sheetmusic/detail/AP.PFM0008.html&t=&k=&r=wwws-err5
http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/014897/details.html

I don't know why there are so many names for one song; but let's call it furthermore "Slave Children's Crusade" ... sorry about the confusion :o

indyrcks

11-21-2008, 09:13 AM

I liked the story in Temple Of Doom but I didn't like when Molo Ram pulled that guy's heart out like why and when Indy turned bad like why did they make Indy like that anyway I think it is a good Indy movie and Short Round is brilliant :D

Matt Holcomb

11-22-2008, 09:32 PM

"ToD" is cinematic cocaine.

martinland

11-24-2008, 04:56 PM

"ToD" is cinematic cocaine.Now finally someone has found the right wording I have been looking for all my life to describe the kick I got and always will be getting out of watching Temple of Doom! :D

Dr Bones

11-24-2008, 05:02 PM

Not my fave out of them all but..

I love it cos it's Indy and that's why I am here!!! :whip:

Dewy9

11-24-2008, 06:03 PM

One word- Willie! It wouldn't have worked for Raiders, but it was fun to have someone who is the exact opposite of Indy get dragged along for the ride. It would be fun for Kate Capshaw have a little cameo in Indy V, if it gets made. She added a lot of humor to an otherwise dark movie. And without her, we wouldn't have "We are going to die! :mad: " Ha!