Indiana Jones and the Sky Pirates

[Johnny Nys]

I remembered this was my least favorite book in the series when I read them the first time as a kid. I'm rereading them in chronological order of the Indy timeline and I've reached this one again and I can clearly see why I thought this way.

It's like Martin Caidin, the author, wanted a mix of "Independence Day" and "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen". The plot is so unlike an Indy storyline. Also, it seems he started writing this, then noticed he wrote something that doesn't comply with previous books (the Rob MacGregor ones). Like he only read the other books after he'd written his, then added some explanations here and there.

I know it's difficult to continue a series you didn't start, even when you're not afflicted with terminal cancer. But it does make me wonder about the amount of freedom the Indy authors had while writing their stories. It often appears as if "anything goes" (except of course the obvious of killing the main character).

[Violet Indy]

Well, it's more of a spy, CIA agent or even Area 51 style of storyline. Even Indy's characterisation in the book is pretty off the mark.

[Johnny Nys]

I've scrolled down the forum threads (sorry, should have done this before posting) and noticed another Martin Caidin discussion. So I certainly hope this won't develop into such a heated argument as that one did.

I was just wondering about this from a writer's point of view, because when you write about a character which is so well known and has been written so much about already, you'd think the original creators would have some kind of guidelines to follow, not official perhaps but more like a silent agreement or something like that.

I'm still reading the book and it has become a bit better. I guess you just have to realize it's a different approach to the subject. It's different because usually, Indy has no idea what the current mystery is about and you sort of discover everything along with him. This time, however, Indy has some secret information of his own but the reader is left in the dark and is forced to discover everything along with his team members.

[Violet Indy]

Don't worry. I'm usually the only one who answers every single Indy novel thread. As for the original creator having guidelines, George actually did have guidelines. THese guidelines however were more tight on MacGregor the first writer. Basically, the only character he could work with was Indy and Marcus Brody, no one else. This however changed later on with Max McCoy who added Sallah to his stories. Another thing: no sex scenes. McGregor wrote a sex scene in one of the books and it was deleted. No heavy curses such as the f*** word. That was pretty much it. Oh and no stories were allowed to be set after LC.

[Johnny Nys]

No stories after LC? Now that's interesting. Because I'm from Belgium, and the Indiana Jones series here includes the Hohlbein books, and they are mostly set after LC. Could this be the reason why these books weren't translated into English? Because they were set after LC? What could be the reason for that?

To return to Sky Pirates, I find the whole Indy learning to fly thing quite disturbing because it contradicts what we see in the movies (he can't fly in ToD, he can fly but not land in LC). Sky Pirates takes place in what I believe is 1930 (there's never an actual date but it says four years after his Amazon adventure (Seven Veils) which was in 1926. The plane trap of Lao Che happened in 1935. A long enough time to forget everything about flying, but that scene clearly shows he's never been in a cockpit before.

I must say the story is speeding up. It's becoming more interesting, as if it took some time for the author to really get in touch with the characters.

[Violet Indy]

Yeah, the Holbein books as far as anyone knows are the only novels which are after LC however Holbein homself never had actual permission from the big man to do the novels, which is why it has not been translated into English. And due to that, the stories have no limitations set. I personally would love a English translation of the novels or to learn German and get a copy from somewhere just to compare it to the American authors.

Yeah, that's the one thing that destroyd Sky Pirates for me. The fact that he is being taught to fly. Same thing happens in the second Caiden book, White Witch however I personally like White Witch better than Sky Pirates. It's more in the realm of MacGregor's books. I found the same with Caiden taking so long with the development of characters. The main problem is he introduces too many characters at the one time. There is one major lesson I've learnt in writing: Don't have lots of good guys and barely any development, have less characters and more development. And it's easier for the audience to understand the plot and follow the characters if there's less of them.

[Moedred]

The ToD novelization suggests Indy could fly, but was being sarcastic to Willie. Still, the Sky Pirates plot found many contrived ways to interrupt his flight lessons. The only rule of fiction is don't break your own rules. That's why White Witch is the only book or comic I abndoned. Caidin established a secret hidden village, but soon everyone was driving in and out of it like it was the corner drugstore.

Thanks for the info on what was and wasn't allowed in the books. I understand time travel was omitted from Secret of the Sphinx, leaving some references to Indy's rapid aging unexplained. Meanwhile, the comics mostly took place afer LC, plus they got to use Sean Connery's character and likeness! I can understand his absence from the novels, but I have to wonder if the comics had freedoms the books lacked.

[Violet Indy]

Indy has rapidly aged??? I never knew any of that! Yeah, I know that Dark Horse did comics after LC such Spear of Destiny and the FoA based on the videogame. I haven't been fortunate enough to have found any of the comics with Jones Snr. Are they any good? Story wise, I mean.

As for Indy's Dad in the novels, he does get some mentions but never actually appears (unless you count the hallucination of Indy's Dad in Genesis Deluge, or was it Peril at Delphi?). However there is a good fictional reason. If you remember from LC during their conversation on the airship, it is mentioned that the two hadn't spoken for over twenty years. So let's see... 1938, minus 20 years... That's 1918! Which again makes sense as in the YIJC episode "Travels with Father", where young adult Indy comes to visit his Dad after returning from WW1. Of course, then they have a conversation about Indy's childhood travelling wth his Dad in Russia and Greece. At the end, the next morning Indy leaves with short notice to go to University of Chicago and his Dad keeps insisting that he go to Princeton. Indy ignores this advice and leaves. His Dad sullen goes back to work on his research for the grail.

[Blue Jay]

I just bought Indiana Jones and the sky pirates, while i am enjoying reading, i noticed that the book cover is not accurate as far as indys gear is concerned.
That makes me wonder, because the master himself Drew Struzan painted that cover:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8131/51odk8mlpnlss500dg5.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=51odk8mlpnlss500dg5.jpg)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5614/skypiratesartjh6.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skypiratesartjh6.jpg)


Just Check Indy's bag, it is not his usual MK VII bag, but something that looks more like a bag for maps or something.
At first i thought it is a second bag, because i thought you can see part of the bag hanging over the whip, but he only has one strap and there is this other bag.
Well, i have not read that much,yet, but i cannot imagine that this has something to do with the story.
Can anyone shed some light on it? Am i crazy for opening a thread about that :p

It is just that i love Drew Struzan and i cannot imagine such a mistake....
It does not really bother me, but i just find it weird.

[indy34]

looks like a german map bag i see them on ebay sometimes:up:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WWII-GERMAN-ARMY-OFFICERS-FIELD-DISPATCH-MAP-CASE-BAG_W0QQitemZ130191469713QQihZ003QQcategoryZ36049QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122

[Blue Jay]

due to restrictions in germany,ebay cannot show me the link because it contains stuff from ww II :sick:

Dear User:

Unfortunately, access to this particular category or item has been blocked due to legal restrictions in your home country. Based on our discussions with concerned government agencies and eBay community members, we have taken these steps to reduce the chance of inappropriate items being displayed. Regrettably, in some cases this policy may prevent users from accessing items that do not violate the law. At this time, we are working on less restrictive alternatives. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause you, and we hope you may find other items of interest on eBay.

Thank You.

i had the same problems when i was looking for the original mk VII bag.

as if everyone who is looking for this stuff is a nazi.... :(
d*mn stereotyping...

ahh google is the answer, via google it showed the link with the picture, but only the search site and not the auction site

[indy34]

thats stupid you cant see it I'd imagine that almost all Germans want nothing to do with it:confused:

[ResidentAlien]

It's hard to tell, and of course I don't know the first thing about Indy gear... but how it looks to me is Indy's traditional bag is hanging on his side with his whip like usual. Obscured of course, but there. I think the reason that there's only one strap (and I could be wrong, not knowing anything about different types of bags) is that perhaps the "map bag" loops through his belt. The strap really doesn't look to be connected with that bag anyway. I think it probably has a loop on the back of it that Indy put his belt through...

[Blue Jay]

It's hard to tell, and of course I don't know the first thing about Indy gear... but how it looks to me is Indy's traditional bag is hanging on his side with his whip like usual. Obscured of course, but there. I think the reason that there's only one strap (and I could be wrong, not knowing anything about different types of bags) is that perhaps the "map bag" loops through his belt. The strap really doesn't look to be connected with that bag anyway. I think it probably has a loop on the back of it that Indy put his belt through...

that was one of my first thoughts as well, but it did not sound too plausible for me...

But i think that this is the most logical idea in the end ;)

[indy34]

also his holster isn't right either I know the holster but I can't remember the name.

[Blue Jay]

you are right, the holster does not look quite right, too.
did not notice that before :hat:

[Arab Swordsman]

Anything related to the Martin Caiden books should be ignored (even Drew's awesome covers.) Those two books are terrible.

[Jeremiah Jones]

Righto I'm reviewing all the Indiana Jones books as I read them,I posted my reviews for rob mcgregors books over on another thread http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=5858&page=2 so now I'm onto

Indiana Jones and the sky Pirates
Right. Quite a reputation this book has. Quite. a. reputation. And within minutes of picking up the book I could see why. Now I flew through the Mcgregor books, reading each one in a day, but sky pirates took me 4, which is a new record for Indiana Jones novels, it was just so difficult to push myself to the end, its just so.. not boring, well it is a bit, but so irrelevent.

Okay heres what I understand of the plot. Theres an evil organisation called.. EVIL standing for Enterprise Ventures International Limited. Which is in itself pretty stupid. Now they want to take over the world, by pretending that they're aliens. So they build a big superzepplin, and some flying saucers, powered by rockets, and start stealing stuff and blowing other stuff up. Fair enough. So Indiana Jones is called in to lead an international team, and seemingly every government in the world to find these guys and shut them down. Now I can understand this in concept, but what? Indiana Jones? hes a professor of archaeology for heavens sake, why? WHY? would he be able to give US army officers orders?! It makes no sense. Why is he the main figure in clandestine secret meetings with world leaders. Why?

Anyway, Indy decides to do alot of stuff. Lets see if I can remember what, as this is an excersise in making sense of the novel as much as it is a review. First he recruits a team of guys, all amazingly skilled and educated to a ridiculous degree, including a woman who hunts with a bow and arrow in the 'new forest' what she hunts in Pastoral England is anyones guess. Apart from Gale, the woman, we have no idea how Indy comes across the rest of his team. First he makes a professor in London beleive in these fake artefacts planted with the diamonds stolen by EVIL, then he goes to Chicago where he convinces Jack Shannon (who is no longer living in san francisco, and has somehow managed to get back with the mob, though the fact that his situation totally changed (marraige, new life) in genisis Deluge isn't mentioned), to use his men to rob a train. Indy and his team fly over in their ford trimotor (for this book is an ad for the ford trimotor) and grab the package. They then go to an airbase, where they go to a secret meeting in an underground situation room, after which Indy goes to a restaurant to flush out some guy.. apparantly. Indy, obsessed with learning to fly, gets some lessons that don't go very far, then takes to team to new york where they go to another secret meeting, one of his members is killed by an animotronic kodiac bear, after which they hook up with another new jamaican guy, fly to england (over about 20 pages) gets a passanger ferry blown up by pretending that he was on it (though the jamaican guy is and gets killed) Here we learn that the EVIL guys are on the run, with their sea base destroyed off screen, and another character we met before has in fact infiltrated their organisation, so its another 20 page trip back across the atlantic where they hook up with an Indian Guy, and blow up the zepplin. THE END.

Now if that makes sense to you. Well done. You can probably stop reading. Its just, so much about this novel doesn't make any sense. First of all theirs Indy's Character, gone is the man who gets things wrong, who gets in over his head and makes it up as he goes along, this Indy is a superhero, with a Holmes like intellect, and a secret plan that he won't tell anybody.. for no real reason. His actions throughout the novel at many times seem to be leading somewhere, but they're not. I mean, take the train robbery he perpetrates, I thought as I read this, ' oh I see,they're gonna try to get intentionally hijacked by the saucers' Nope, theres no real reason Indy does this, none I can see. Then later on, in the most out of character act, Indy allows a passenger ship to be blown up, killing hundreds of innocents, just to make the enemy beleive hes dead. They try to write it off by saying, 'they'd have done it anyway' but thats simply poppycock. And what does Indy do with this new anomymity? Nothing. He just flies back and ends the story. This is not Indiana Jones, this is some sort of evil palpatine like character. Plus, Indiana Jones cannot fly, and I wish he'd stop learning how.

Then theres the other characters, long long sections are dedicated to 'fleshing them out' but then they're not really used, Gale does next to nothing, and the two pilots exist seemingly only to make the reader realise you're pretty useless if you don't obsess about planes. As for the characters who die, only Frenchies death makes any sense, Tarkiz, the huge Turkish bodygaurd, is killed by an animatronic Kodiac bear, in a museum display!! This is ridiculous in so many levels, not least of which is THEY DID NOT HAVE ROBOTIC BEARS IN 1930!!! Hes immediatly replaced by the Jamacain guy, who, like everyone, is just amazing, speaks several languages, does akido, has loads of degrees, yada yada yada, but ten pages later hes killed off screen when Indy makes everyone believe hes dead.

The last half of the book is taken up by two flights, one to England, and one back again, pages and pages of flight description, wind velocities, torque. Fair enough, but we find once they get to England, all this flying about has hidden the actual plot, as we are told that the EVIL organisation is now on the run, by stuff that happened off screen.

Its just so frustrating, and then they just shoot the zepplin down, and it simply ends.

One last thing.. before I end this rather long rant. It didn't feel like 1930, all these governments meeting up in secret underground conference rooms, long distance bomb detonating hand held devices, killer robot kodiac bears, the fact that flying across the atlantic in a plane somehow makes Indy and his crew very visible. Also, somewhat unrelated, Indy carries a camera around his neck for the whole story, occasionally taking clandestine pictures, though seriously, it you were in a top secret meeting and there was some scruffy guy with a camera around his neck, wouldn't you say, hey, this meetings TOP SECRET no cameras. But anyway, he teaches his friends how to use it at one point in a long boring sequence, but the photos Indy takes turn out to have no relevence on the plot. Like a lot of things..

Oh and contunuity with the other novels suck, and the prose is clunky as hell. So yeah. Sky Pirates.

[Lao_Che]

Oh and contunuity with the other novels suck, and the prose is clunky as hell. So yeah. Sky Pirates.

If I'm remembering it right, the story of how Gale Parker and Indy met in New Forest is different in White Witch.

[Attila the Professor]

If I'm remembering it right, the story of how Gale Parker and Indy met in New Forest is different in White Witch.

That may be...I look forward to your review of that one, Jeremiah. I found it significantly more engaging than its predecessor (which, I must confess, too had its charms in how bizarre it was).

[Jeremiah Jones]

Yeah perhaps my review was a bit too negative, there are some good bits, I mean... Cromwells an okay character. And it did make me laugh alot, usually when something ridiculously obvious was revealed at the end of a chapter in true melodramatic fashion, or indy saying 'why' at a conference, and it being described as a word that cut everyone to silence, by the sheer shock of its timing. Classic

And yeah, I've started White Which, and how Indy and Gale met is indeed totally different, apart from the hunting of boar bit. Plus Indy apparantly always carries a leather sheet and a bottle of wine with him when hunting. Which is, you know, an interesting choice

[WeAreGoingToDie]

I've been reading through the novels over the past few months and have just started Sky Pirates. I've found the novel very hard to get into. Overly descriptive, overly technical and Indy just isn't Indy. I really miss Rob McGregor's continuity. The first six novels felt like one massive story, while Sky Pirates feels like somebody elbowed the series in the ribs and said "Listen up! CIA agents and UFOs!"

[Jeremiah Jones]

Yeah, I think its difficult because so little actually happens, they just talk and talk and talk the smallest details to death, and act amazed at any little inconsequential nugget they guess at... The sooner I'm finished White Witch the better. I'm over a hundred pages in, and all hes done is go flying (of course) help out in the Wicca village, go to london, and go back again... would they just SHUT UP and get on with it:(

But yeah WeAreGoingToDie, it looks like you're just behind me, interested to read your thoughts when you're done, til then I'll race you to the promised dawn of Mac Mccoy

[Jeremiah Jones]

I know this is a Sky Pirates thread, but I want to keep my Caidin Reviews together, so here it is

Indiana Jones and the White Witch
I have to say, having read Sky Pirates, I was very reluctant to start into this second and last of Caidin's Indiana Jones stories. However, I am very glad to report that it is far far better then Sky Pirates, on a whole host of levels. Its seems on a lot of instances that hes responding to criticisms doled out on Sky Pirates..

Probably the most vital improvement is one of plot, as I've written above, the plot of Sky Pirates was long, complex and almost completely nonsensical, with various events and threads of story occuring for no real reason, here that is reduced greatly thanks mainly to a rather simple storyline, which is basically, Village is attacked, Indy Gale and Caitlin follow the murderers trail to some hidden gold, via zeppelin, and defeat them. Also, alot of the needless conversations present in sky pirates, the conversations and meetings that occupied every chapter eliciting sighs and groans of remorse and exasperation, are pretty much gone. Also, Caidin's fascination with aircraft is tempered greatly, even where planes are involved he manages not to rant for pages, indeed, his knowledge really adds to the centrepiece of the novel, that great zeppelin sequence, which I found really interesting, and the fight on top of its frozen hull was also well managed and exciting, thats right, stuff actually happens in this novel, again a massive improvement over Sky Pirates

It isn't all good though, continuity is still very spotty, with his meeting with Gale very different from the meeting detailed in the last novel, also a unicorn is seen at one point, and there is no mention of Unicorn's legacy, same with the various references to Stonehenge, one gets the impression that Caidin knew there was an Indy novel set at Stonehenge, but he didn't know what happened in it. Also the first hundred pages or so are painful, and had me assuming the worst, slow moving, heavy conversations, basically, in the space of a century of page Indy and Gale see the village burn, got there, then drive back to London, also their conversation in the car drive to and from the village is about magic, this conversation allows Indy to accept magic for the rest of the novel. Lets just say it didn't do the same for me. Magic is apparantly electrical energy, the magic sword has a battery in it for heavens sake, as does the magic staff, this made no sense to me, did Merlin invent duracell then? Is that what we're saying here? Battery operated magic? This and the explanation that 'you can't see magnatism or cosmic rays' somehow makes Indy believe in Magic. I wasn't convinced. Though I may have just killed some fairies.

Possibly the most ridiculous conversation in the novel occurs directly after this, as after driving back to London, getting attacked by crazy sucidal thug (why?) they amazing drive right back to the village, while lost in the wood Indy takes the time to stop the car, gets the inspector to take out some paper and some glue that hes conveniently got with him, and make a morbius strip... So to explain why they're lost... Riiiiiight...

Also, I just don't beleive all this stuff about the New Forest, its just a National Park in Southern England for heavens sake... Also, the villain, Cordas, seemingly the same fellow from Sky Pirates, however this is never really made explicit, and if it is, his dealings here are far far more low scale then what hes been involved in before, its like a Blofeld plot to steal the contents of couple of cash registers. However once the adventure gets going, it gets quite interesting, though protracted at times, but not to the same extent as Sky Pirates. So yeah, much better then Sky Pirates.

[WeAreGoingToDie]

Well Jeremiah Jones! Looks like you may beat me to the promised lad of McCoy. Since my post I haven't touched Sky Pirates. I've been watching "Young Indy: The War Years" on my iPod. But tonight I'm planning to continue trudging through it. Your review of The White Witch is comforting, at least it won't be TOO bad.

I'm looking forward to Belloq and the Crystal Skulls to come. Also, the Dinosaur Eggs sounds like an intriguing story. (I once wanted to be a paleontologist, and this was pre-Jurassic Park) :dead:

[Goonie]

I finshished reading the 2nd of the Caidin books yesterday (White Witch). Before reading White Witch I read Sky Pirates. Would've been better if the main character's name was Sky Captain ;) . It was ok, but not your typical Indy adventure. Now I'm moving on to the Max McCoy novels.:up:

[Morning Bell]

Nice reviews Jeremiah!

I agree that Caiden's books were a bit of chore to get through and really lacked the action and excitement that many of the other books had. Sky Pirates is my least-favorite Indy novel and The White Witch, while a slight improvement, was still pretty dull. Caiden was a more than capable author but he just wasn't right for Indy and all of the technical descriptions made me feel like I was reading Tom Clancy instead of Indiana Jones.

Thank goodness that McCoy came in. I'm re-reading Philosopher's Stone at the moment and I'm just blown away by good it is; in fact, it may just be my favorite of the series. Caiden is difficult to get through but knowing that you have four wonderful McCoy novels makes it easier.:)