The Plot…

[Dr.Jonesy]

Kingdom - He ends with a wife, son, surrounded by longtime friends marrying the love of his life. And he's got an amazing home, and a position reinstated as an Associate Dean, doing what he loves.

Destiny - He ends the film still no longer teaching, forced to retire doing what he loves. He's still in mourning for losing his son, and his relationship with Marion may end hopefully, but it'll never be the same after losing a child.

It kind of undoes all the good feelings of the ending of Kingdom. Whether you dig the film or not, it was the happiest ending.

I mean, I'm not against the ending at all.

But I also feel it's a lot more of a bitter place to leave Indy than I would've expected, or maybe even wanted.

 

[magierose]

Dr Jonesy

Kingdom - He ends with a wife, son, surrounded by longtime friends marrying the love of his life. And he's got an amazing home, and a position reinstated as an Associate Dean, doing what he loves.

Destiny - He ends the film still no longer teaching, forced to retire doing what he loves. He's still in mourning for losing his son, and his relationship with Marion may end hopefully, but it'll never be the same after losing a child.

It kind of undoes all the good feelings of the ending of Kingdom. Whether you dig the film or not, it was the happiest ending.

I mean, I'm not against the ending at all.

But I also feel it's a lot more of a bitter place to leave Indy than I would've expected, or maybe even wanted.

Sigh, yeah, I have read the synopsis and while I think I will have no problem with the action sequence, the de-aging and Ford, this creative choice leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. It's a cruel event to impose to a beloved character. Yes, it's an emotional ending but at what cost for the character? What happened to him was the most terrible thing that can happen to a person, fictional or not.

 

[DocWhiskey]

Kingdom - He ends with a wife, son, surrounded by longtime friends marrying the love of his life. And he's got an amazing home, and a position reinstated as an Associate Dean, doing what he loves.

Destiny - He ends the film still no longer teaching, forced to retire doing what he loves. He's still in mourning for losing his son, and his relationship with Marion may end hopefully, but it'll never be the same after losing a child.

It kind of undoes all the good feelings of the ending of Kingdom. Whether you dig the film or not, it was the happiest ending.

Can't help but agree. I don't want to start cynically picking apart a movie I haven't seen yet...but then again we are on a message board

Regardless of how you feel about KotCS, most admit it was a fitting ending if this indeed was the last time we see Indy.

The idea of Indiana Jones having a son leads to near limitless ideas and possibilities, and I can't help but feel it's a shame to ultimately throw that potential away...in passing apparently...which, in turn, makes KotCS even more of a dunce. And, essentially, trashing an idea the original creators crafted in what was their last chapter with their character. I know Mangold did Logan (which is cynically about a hero that lost everything and is a shell of his previous self) but, selfishly, I don't think that's my preferred route when sending Indiana Jones off. You can convey the story of a senior Indy whose best days are behind him yet still yearns for adventure. I don't believe you need to strip the character of joy, accomplishments, and family in order to do that. The theme of a senior action hero having one final adventure over a macguffin centered around time travel writes itself.

I truly don't believe this is going to be a bad movie. I have hope for it and I think it will be a solid adventure. It's just that, with what I'm reading, it seems pretty clear that Spielberg and Lucas brought a feeling of elation and positivity to the character that may be missing going forward. I hope I'm wrong...but at the same time...I'm not surprised of this theme when it comes to modern filmmakers.

 

[The Rocketeer]

I truly don't believe this is going to be a bad movie. I have hope for it and I think it will be a solid adventure. It's just that, with what I'm reading, it seems pretty clear that Spielberg and Lucas brought a feeling of elation and positivity to the character that may be missing going forward. I hope I'm wrong...but at the same time...I'm not surprised of this theme when it comes to modern filmmakers.

I have a feeling that a significant percentage of Indiana Jones fans are going to dislike A: Indy being jaded and bereaved for much of the movie, B: Helena's caustic attitude toward Indy, C: Phoebe Waller-Bridge's overall persona and sense of humor (she's a bit like Marmite; some people love her, but some can't stand her), and D: the punch in the face scene.

I think that if the movie had the same overall plot but the following alterations, it would have a much better chance at being well-received by the majority of fans:

Alteration #1. Indy is happily married to Marion and Mutt is alive but somewhere else (ie, not in the story but briefly mentioned). While Indy is happy, he hasn't been on any adventures in years, and is starting to feel a bit restless as a result. Due to this, he jumps at the first chance to live out another adventure. There could even be a humorous scene of him having to sneak out of his house to go adventuring so that Marion doesn't catch him. Rather than being downbeat at the beginning, he has a touch of "mischievous grandpa" personality to him, especially in his interactions with students.

Alteration #2. Helena doesn't have a grudge against Indy, is played by an actress like Hayley Atwell, Emily Blunt, Karen Gillan, or Keira Knightley, and is given a personality more like Evie from the Mummy movies or Peggy Carter from "Captain America: The First Avenger".

Alteration #3. It is Archimedes, not Indy himself, who wants Indy to stay in ancient Syracuse. But Indy turns down his offer - and maybe even has to fight or escape from him - because as much as he loves ancient history, he loves Marion more and gladly returns to his own time. He could have a line about how she's more precious to him than any of the other treasures that he has held or something to that effect. At the end, he would have a greater level of contentment and gratitude for his "settled down" life.

 

[antonb]

The hate towards Helena shaw is really starting to annoy me! She sounds like an interesting character to me.

 

[OldIndy2323]

Can't help but agree. I don't want to start cynically picking apart a movie I haven't seen yet...but then again we are on a message board

Regardless of how you feel about KotCS, most admit it was a fitting ending if this indeed was the last time we see Indy.

The idea of Indiana Jones having a son leads to near limitless ideas and possibilities, and I can't help but feel it's a shame to ultimately throw that potential away...in passing apparently...which, in turn, makes KotCS even more of a dunce. And, essentially, trashing an idea the original creators crafted in what was their last chapter with their character. I know Mangold did Logan (which is cynically about a hero that lost everything and is a shell of his previous self) but, selfishly, I don't think that's my preferred route when sending Indiana Jones off. You can convey the story of a senior Indy whose best days are behind him yet still yearns for adventure. I don't believe you need to strip the character of joy, accomplishments, and family in order to do that. The theme of a senior action hero having one final adventure over a macguffin centered around time travel writes itself.

I truly don't believe this is going to be a bad movie. I have hope for it and I think it will be a solid adventure. It's just that, with what I'm reading, it seems pretty clear that Spielberg and Lucas brought a feeling of elation and positivity to the character that may be missing going forward. I hope I'm wrong...but at the same time...I'm not surprised of this theme when it comes to modern filmmakers.

In my mind, since this is an ADVENTURE universe where the most improbable things can happen to Indy, and usually do, I imagine that within the next couple of Indy's years, Mutt will be discovered ALIVE and Indy, now being more like his old self after DoD, will go off and rescue him, and the family will be reunited with all old wounds healed. Fits perfectly into the style of the 70's movies where characters regularly came back after being presumed dead. DoD would be the "low point" for Indy as a character and the ending would be Indy's climb back to the top

 

[IndianaBones]

In my mind, since this is an ADVENTURE universe where the most improbable things can happen to Indy, and usually do, I imagine that within the next couple of Indy's years, Mutt will be discovered ALIVE and Indy, now being more like his old self after DoD, will go off and rescue him, and the family will be reunited with all old wounds healed. Fits perfectly into the style of the 70's movies where characters regularly came back after being presumed dead. DoD would be the "low point" for Indy as a character and the ending would be Indy's climb back to the top

I’d imagine this retcon is so easily doable in a comic…IF THEY WOULD MAKE NEW COMICS

 

[The Rocketeer]

The hate towards Helena shaw is really starting to annoy me! She sounds like an interesting character to me.

She might be. I don't know quite what I'm going to think of her until I see the movie.

But if mainstream critics have already described her as an abrasive character browbeating an old man, it's likely that many people in the audience will see her that way as well, and Phoebe Waller-Bridge is sort of like Ricky Gervais in that "funny to some people, annoying to others" kind of way.

 

[antonb]

She might be. I don't know quite what I'm going to think of her until I see the movie.

But if mainstream critics have already described her as an abrasive character browbeating an old man, it's likely that many people in the audience will see her that way as well, and Phoebe Waller-Bridge is sort of like Ricky Gervais in that "funny to some people, annoying to others" kind of way.

browbeating an old man! Its Indiana Jones he can look after himself. You sound like you have fallen for some of the idiots posting rubbish online and some reviews

 

[Texas]

In my mind, since this is an ADVENTURE universe where the most improbable things can happen to Indy, and usually do, I imagine that within the next couple of Indy's years, Mutt will be discovered ALIVE and Indy, now being more like his old self after DoD, will go off and rescue him, and the family will be reunited with all old wounds healed. Fits perfectly into the style of the 70's movies where characters regularly came back after being presumed dead. DoD would be the "low point" for Indy as a character and the ending would be Indy's climb back to the top

That kind of reminds me of when Rambo rescued those American POWs a decade after the Vietnam war ended, in Rambo 2.

 

[rollingrockpaperscissors]

That kind of reminds me of when Rambo rescued those American POWs a decade after the Vietnam war ended, in Rambo 2

Lol what a reactionary pile of sh*te that film was

 

[British Raider]

I like everything I've read about DoD via the spoilers posted on the this forum and on reddit. The main thing that bugs me though is Voller's demise. His demise definitely sounds like the weakest of all the main villain endings in the entire Indy franchise. Also, it seems like a blown opportunity not to have featured Archimedes' death ray in some way.

I know what you mean but it does seem fitting thematically etc

 

[The Rocketeer]

I know what you mean but it does seem fitting thematically etc

I think that the most satisfying death for him would have been him getting ripped apart across time, with bits and pieces of him winding up in different eras.

 

[LB Makes Stuff]

No, there is no death ray ! Klaber isn't flying the plane but he is shooting like a maniac at soldiers of the Syracuse siege and calling them "savages", he is basically losing his mind as the characters understand they are doomed.

How is John’s music? Are there any somber / farewell statements (aka renditions) of the Raiders March? How is the flashback music, was it written in the style of “Desert Chase” or was it in the style of his new Chase music? (TROS Speeder Chase) Thanks.
Edit: you can put the context, I don’t really care.

 

[IndianaJaune]

She might be. I don't know quite what I'm going to think of her until I see the movie.

But if mainstream critics have already described her as an abrasive character browbeating an old man, it's likely that many people in the audience will see her that way as well, and Phoebe Waller-Bridge is sort of like Ricky Gervais in that "funny to some people, annoying to others" kind of way.

If you've seen Fleabag, PWB is basically playing the same kind of character but in a much less-toned down version of it - and fitting way to an Indy movie. She brings a real spark to the cast in my opinion and is a great sidekick but I agree with your point that you either love her or get annoyed by her.

How is John’s music? Are there any somber / farewell statements (aka renditions) of the Raiders March? How is the flashback music, was it written in the style of “Desert Chase” or was it in the style of his new Chase music? (TROS Speeder Chase) Thanks.
Edit: you can put the context, I don’t really care.

Very good, I didn't notice the score so it worked well. There are a few flashback themes in the introduction sequence, I'm not 100% sure but it sounded to me like themes from LC.

 

[LB Makes Stuff]

Nice, appreciate it.

 

[whipandfedora]

Kingdom - He ends with a wife, son, surrounded by longtime friends marrying the love of his life. And he's got an amazing home, and a position reinstated as an Associate Dean, doing what he loves.

Destiny - He ends the film still no longer teaching, forced to retire doing what he loves. He's still in mourning for losing his son, and his relationship with Marion may end hopefully, but it'll never be the same after losing a child.

It kind of undoes all the good feelings of the ending of Kingdom. Whether you dig the film or not, it was the happiest ending.

I mean, I'm not against the ending at all.

But I also feel it's a lot more of a bitter place to leave Indy than I would've expected, or maybe even wanted.

That’s the reality of ageing and life. We don’t stay in the same place emotionally or physically. Things change. The evolution of Indy as a young adventuring professor to a retired older man gives the series a sense of completeness.

 

[British Raider]

Yes,

She punches him, the screen fades to black and Indy wakes up in his bed in 1969. It sounds cheap on paper but it’s an unexpected twist in the moment and we already know at this point how they are supposed to get back to the present so we don’t need to see it happen.

but how literally are you supposed to take this moment exactly? I don’t think we are supposed to take the idea Indy is knocked out by a single punch and they get him back and to bed. It’s more that the cut is playful and giving the idea of that, but really it could be taken he’s punched to make him come to his senses?

 

[antonb]

I will go in with an open mind , but I’m not liking the sound of the ending to be honest. Or the final scene. I guess though it’s all in how it’s presented. I have read a few people who really liked the ending so trying to keep an open mind!

 

[magierose]

browbeating an old man! Its Indiana Jones he can look after himself. You sound like you have fallen for some of the idiots posting rubbish online and some reviews

The thing is, we, humans, fans, we come with our own emotional baggage, even when we go to the theaters to watch a movie.

My father is 87. Two months ago, we were at the market, I was buying some stuff, I turned my back for maybe 2 minutes and he missed a step and fell. Some people helped him to get back on his feet and when I came back, he had a black eye and a bump on the corner of his eye. I rushed him to the hospital and thankfully, my father is still a strong man and was okay. But he WAS lucky. A few weeks ago, an old lady I know, 80, still going strong, independant, she missed a step, just ONE FREAKING STEP in our building and fell. She died within a few days. Old people can die from simple shocks or falls.

So seeing this scene will bring back bad memories for me, and fears I have for my father.

We all have our baggages, as I said.