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-   -   Should we just give up on Harrison? (http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=24007)

Raiders112390 04-26-2017 10:27 PM

Should we just give up on Harrison?
 
I'm not trolling and I do think with yesterday's news this deserves its own thread...

I'm one of the bigger Harrison fanboys on here. Harrison Ford, along with Bruce Willis and John Travolta, was among my male idols growing up. He was the epitome of what a leading man I felt should be. He was suave. He had an awesome voice. A swagger all his own. He was no Brando, but he was basically a modern hybrid of Humphrey Bogart, Cary Grant and Clark Gable for our time. He's played quite a few great roles and his place in movie history is secured. He portrayed Indy in four movies we all enjoy.

That said, I think with yesterday's news, Harrison's time as Indy is over, for more than one reason. First of all, if they do not film the thing until 2019, Harrison will be 77, if God willing he's even still alive by then. He'll be pushing 80. I don't want to see his Indy be reduced to either a cameo or a supporting actor in his own movie. That, for me, would tarnish Harrison as an actor, his Indy as a character, and would seem a bit degrading to me. It would make his curtain calls as Indy - whether you prefer him walking down the aisle or riding off into the sunset - seem hollow. I don't want to see Harrison Ford become George Hall, the old grandpa narrating the story of his adventures to some punk kid.

At the same time, he is now far too old to helm an action film alone and capture audiences young and old. Us diehards will see it. 30-40 somethings will see it out of nostalgia. But will the 18-24 market of 2020 really be interested in an Indiana Jones movie with a geriatric leading man? I don't think most people of that generation even know who Harrison is by name anymore. They might know him as Han Solo...But he's not going to crowd theaters just on his name alone the way he did in the 80s and 90s.

Factor in that even if Harrison does lead the film, he's likely to not have many action scenes, and instead we'd have to watch a younger actor do all the work for him. We got a glimpse of that with Mutt in KOTCS - Do we really want to see some no-name assistant character or a Mutt recast doing all the dirty work we so enjoyed watching Harrison do - Taking and giving the beatings, swinging from the whip, getting into chases?

I feel that KOTCS was the last hurrah for Harrison and even then, it was a bit too late. He was already 65. Ideally a fourth Indy film would've been made in the mid 1990s or early 00s - but that's long past now. Even if you love KOTCS, and I do enjoy it, you can't deny that it was botched in some ways. Can anyone here really say they enjoyed watching Mutt duel while Harrison sat on the sidelines? Would anyone disagree KOTCS missed some opportunities to have a last great gun battle, and that it could've used a lot more whip?

It's too late now. 2019 was already stretching it - but pushing it back another year, I at this point give up. Harrison's had two curtain calls as Indy already. I don't think he needs a third encore. With a heavy heart, I say it's time to let it go. Harrison had his time in the hat, and it's time for someone else to seek fortune and glory.

Anyone with me?

Lambonius 04-26-2017 10:40 PM

As much as I am in favor of a new actor taking over the role for a new round of younger Indy movies, I DO think that one last Harrison Indy COULD work, provided Disney does a complete about-face and DOESN'T try to push it as an action movie. I'd personally love to see a cerebral take on Indy, with maybe a few choice sucker-punch "he's still got it" moments thrown in for nostalgia. But honestly, if they had a great story, I'd be on board with an old-Harrison Indy movie that was more of an archeological detective story, with minimal action. I just don't see Disney taking that route, unfortunately.

Raiders112390 04-26-2017 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambonius
As much as I am in favor of a new actor taking over the role for a new round of younger Indy movies, I DO think that one last Harrison Indy COULD work, provided Disney does a complete about-face and DOESN'T try to push it as an action movie. I'd personally love to see a cerebral take on Indy, with maybe a few choice sucker-punch "he's still got it" moments thrown in for nostalgia. But honestly, if they had a great story, I'd be on board with an old-Harrison Indy movie that was more of an archeological detective story, with minimal action. I just don't see Disney taking that route, unfortunately.


I could go along with a cerebral Indy, with little bits of action here and then. Something akin to Robin and Marian - which was a cerebral, sentimental take on Robin Hood with some bits of action thrown in. But I agree with you. I don't see Disney doing that (or even understanding how it can work). A Walt run Disney might've understood that. Today's Disney doesn't have that sort of sentimentality. I just don't want to see Grandpa Indy bookending a movie. It feels shallow.

davidgribouille 04-27-2017 02:27 AM

I couldn't agree more with you Raiders112390.:D

hismasterplan 04-27-2017 02:39 AM

I sadly, yet optimistically agree. It should not have taken this long for Indy 5 but one last Harrison Indiana Jones movie with not too many sidekicks is all I want.

Silvor 04-27-2017 05:30 AM

If they start shooting next year there's still hope for a Ford led movie I think, but if not the hope starts to dim sadly.
So weird how Spielberg just doesn't seem to prioritize Indy 5 at all, keeps on adding more and more other movies to his schedule.
I mean, fast tracking "The Post" just to try and get Oscars, what kind of motivation for making a movie is that?

11YearsLater 04-27-2017 05:43 AM

Short answer: of course not. The latest announcement includes Ford, which means Spielberg wants him back, Disney wants him back, and he wants to be back. Ford IS returning.

IndyBuff 04-27-2017 09:57 AM

I admit to being a bit conflicted on this. I have no problem with an older Indy, and I think Ford did a great job in KOTCS, though I do agree that they waited a bit too long to make it happen. The only way it could really work now is if they film it in the same vein as the conveyor belt fight in ToD, with Ford just doing close-ups and having a stuntman do the rest. I doubt Ford (and even many of us) would want a film of someone else basically doing all of his work for him. The only other option is to bring someone younger along but then we run into the same problem, with Indy sitting by and watching someone else take out the villains. An entire movie of that would get dull quickly.

I too fear that Ford's time is up and Disney seems to be in no hurry to get this project off the ground. Nothing about this feels good right now.

Z dweller 04-27-2017 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I say it's time to let it go. Harrison had his time in the hat, and it's time for someone else to seek fortune and glory.

Good to see you finally leave the Dark Side. :p

Seriously, I've been saying that since I joined the Raven and could not agree more.

But there's no way Disney are going to completely turn their back on Ford at this stage.
We are stuck with Harry for Indy 5, at least for part of the movie.

I am hoping they go for two stories running in parallel, with 30-40% screen time devoted to Old Indy in a more "cerebral" role and the odd action scene, the rest with Young Indy.

I firmly believe that Ford would have no issues with that.

seasider 04-27-2017 12:19 PM

Just because Ford will be 77, doesn't mean he'll be chasing bad guys with his walking cane. He hasn't show any signs of being incapable of doing action scenes. I expect that if the movie gets made we'll still see him swinging with the whip, jumping onto moving cars and punching bad guys out.

Like any movie, It all comes down the story and the characters. If the audience is buying into that then Indy's age and how he looks will be a minor issue in the movie. I think that's where KOTCS failed. It wasn't because of Harrison's age.

Face_Palm 04-27-2017 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seasider
Just because Ford will be 77, doesn't mean he'll be chasing bad guys with his walking cane. He hasn't show any signs of being incapable of doing action scenes. I expect that if the movie gets made we'll still see him swinging with the whip, jumping onto moving cars and punching bad guys out.

Like any movie, It all comes down the story and the characters. If the audience is buying into that then Indy's age and how he looks will be a minor issue in the movie. I think that's where KOTCS failed. It wasn't because of Harrison's age.



^ This all the way. Ford looks in great shape - everybody ages differently. Let's get this filmed!

davidgribouille 04-28-2017 04:50 AM

Honestly, to see a (almost) 80 yo guy running after vilains, jumping over ground holes or slam the whip would be just… ridiculous. Even if Harrison is in good shape...
But I agree that the position of Spielberg on that future film is quite strange. He knows that Harrison Ford is getting older and doesn't want anyone else. If this new film is really important to him (unlike the 4th one…), he should insist to start shooting quickly! Unless he has already an idea for old Indy?

Raiders112390 04-28-2017 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidgribouille
Honestly, to see a (almost) 80 yo guy running after vilains, jumping over ground holes or slam the whip would be just… ridiculous. Even if Harrison is in good shape...
But I agree that the position of Spielberg on that future film is quite strange. He knows that Harrison Ford is getting older and doesn't want anyone else. If this new film is really important to him (unlike the 4th one…), he should insist to start shooting quickly! Unless he has already an idea for old Indy?


All his plans for an Old Indy would be foiled if Harrison just doesn't wake up one morning in 2019 or if he gets into a plane crash with his Cessna. Time is of the essence here. You'd think with Carrie Fisher dying so suddenly it'd have been a wake-up call.

Udvarnoky 04-28-2017 07:48 AM

We shouldn't give up on Harrison as long as he's still expressing interest, because that interest represents an opportunity to close out the Ford/Spielberg/Lucas era of this series with some class. Crystal Skull did not cut it.

The challenge of how to do "action sequences" with an Old Indy isn't any more of an issue now than it was for the past several years we've been arguing about it. There are approaches that can work.

I would love to see a movie that emphasized Indy's cunning and ability to outwit foes and solve puzzles. It's an especially appealing notion coming off of a movie where Indy was presented with great setups for such scenes that just unaccountably never happened. Some of Indy's most memorable moments are about problem-solving rather than brute force. Tricking a Nazi into a propeller, identifying the release lever to a trap, and taking the leap of faith are all classic Indy moments that would work as well for a 79 year old as a 39 year old.

Done correctly, a fifth movie could have moments along those lines that are not only satisfying, but use Indy's age to an advantage. A guy who is at the end of his life would probably have a very different attitude toward the temptation of the Holy Grail, for instance. There are ideas to be explored and exploited. And if they find them, it can make up for whatever deficiencies we will be facing where jumping off of horses onto tanks is concerned.

This is part of why I still love the haunted castle concept. Indy solving and surviving his way out of a situation like could provide a lot of great scenarios that are pure Indy that would not require him to be running and punching all the time. If you pick a story that simply doesn't lend itself to those things, it will come across as a consequence of the story rather than a limitation of the actor.

Udvarnoky 04-28-2017 08:02 AM

Something I keep coming back to in my head is the famous swordsman-shooting scene in Raiders. In the context of that scene, Indy is too exhausted and in too much of a hurry to face this guy on fair terms, so he just shoots him and moves on. It's a surprising, hilarious moment, and an example of something that would arguably be even more appropriate for an elderly Indy, who I imagine would have to double-down on playing dirty to make up for his inability to take on a brute physically.

A good screenwriter could have a ball coming up with scenarios like that. My displeasure with bringing back Koepp has not been kept secret, but I'm glad the defeatists in here aren't the ones writing the script.

IndyBuff 04-28-2017 10:13 AM

A more cerebral or mystery-based plot could totally work if done right. Somehow I can't see them going that route, as many in the audience will be expecting a lot of action. Some of Indy's best moments come from the subtle humor or exploration aspects.

Scenes like finding the knight's tomb in LC or the map room in Raiders are powerful and a film made of those moments could really be interesting, not to mention Ford would be able to do them pretty easily.

Z dweller 04-28-2017 10:55 AM

Indy 5 will be the first installment of the series under Disney's helm, and I think they'll be looking to please their target audience.

Would it make sense for them to move the Indiana Jones franchise further and further away from its all-action roots? I doubt it.

Look at what they did with Star Wars: it was totally back to the roots, and it paid off in spades.

Indy 5 gives them a unique opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.
Give Ford a worthy sendoff to appease hard core fans, and introduce a younger actor in all-action flashback scenes to lay the foundations for future prequels.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't take it.

Face_Palm 04-28-2017 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z dweller
Indy 5 will be the first installment of the series under Disney's helm, and I think they'll be looking to please their target audience.

Would it make sense for them to move the Indiana Jones franchise further and further away from its all-action roots? I doubt it.

Look at what they did with Star Wars: it was totally back to the roots, and it paid off in spades.

Indy 5 gives them a unique opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.
Give Ford a worthy sendoff to appease hard core fans, and introduce a younger actor in all-action flashback scenes to lay the foundations for future prequels.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't take it.



Agreed completely. Give us Harrison and set up a new actor at the same time.

Indy Jones 04-29-2017 01:36 PM

I'd adore the hypothetical prequels to be adapted from some of the Bantam novels or the Dark Horse material. Mostly because I'd rather not see any of those stories bumped from continuity! :p

No Camels 05-01-2017 02:17 AM

This is my first post ever so go easy on me. But in all honesty, I don't see anything wrong with Ford's age. Like someone earlier said they could use that to their advantage as a plot point. Maybe Indy, in the process of fighting one of the bad guys, realizes it really isn't "as easy as it used to be" and then decides to resort to some other clever way to dispatch said bad guy. I think stories about tough old men are great. Not sure if anyone's ever read it but think of Woodrow Call from The Streets of Laredo. That character was pushing 80 and he was still just as much of a badass.

IndyBuff 05-01-2017 12:16 PM

I seem to recall a few of the old Allan Quatermain stories dealing with his age. He was around 55 at the time of King Solomon's Mines so it's not unreasonable to think they could use Ford's age effectively.

Grizzlor 05-01-2017 12:28 PM

LucasFilm are pretty adamant that NO actor will succeed Harrison in the role, so this is it. It's Harry or nothing. And for those who scoff, they also said Carrie will not be CGI in Episode IX, that blu ray's of the OT unedited were not coming, etc...

JasonMa 05-01-2017 01:08 PM

Lucasfilm also said the whole Expanded Universe was Star Wars canon, until Disney decided otherwise.

Face_Palm 05-01-2017 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonMa
Lucasfilm also said the whole Expanded Universe was Star Wars canon, until Disney decided otherwise.


Incorrect.

JasonMa 05-01-2017 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Face_Palm
Incorrect.

Can you expand on that?


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