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Junior Jones 07-01-2004 03:05 PM

Princess Sophie
 
Vienna, November 1908

In this episode Indy tells of his first romance. As a boy he fell in love with Princess Sophie, daughter of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. At the end of the episode, during the "Old Indy" bookends, he is asked if he ever saw her again. He says, "Yes, but that's a story for another time."

I have been doing some research, and altough there is a lot written about Franz Ferdinand, there is not much about his family, especially after the assasination in 1914.

I did learn that Sophie Hohenburg lived until the mid-1970's. And that leaves a lot of opportunity for Indy to meet her again.

Is there anyone with better historical resources than myself who can suggest when Indy and Sophie may have met again?

Finn 07-17-2004 04:54 PM

Can be anytime. Since these people lost their royal status after the wars, there really is no limitations or possible meetings in the frames of some famous historic event.

I dunno why, but I somehow started to think of the sixties... I guess I just mentally placed it after the time Indy's grand adventures were over.

raftailgunner 06-29-2008 04:28 PM

This is about as much as i can find.

Stoo 07-02-2008 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raftailgunner
This is about as much as i can find.

According to this she died in 1990. Indy must have forgotten about her and stopped wearing the locket by 1935.
Can you picture them meeting again anytime after that?

Indy: I wore your locket for almost 20 years.
Sophie: Oh, Indy, don't exaggerate.

Attila the Professor 07-02-2008 02:11 PM

Well, I think she joined up with a hoighty-toighty Boston/Philadelphia family who didn't like it when she went into archaeology and mysticism...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5zhxX56T_M

Kaczor 07-05-2008 05:15 PM

The medallion with picture of Sophie saved Indy's life in "Oganga" episode but did you noticed that there was two different medallions? :D




Attila the Professor 07-05-2008 05:42 PM

Looks the same to me, just with the picture on the opposite side.

(Of course, the picture's different, but the hinge and the hook look the same.)

Junior Jones 07-05-2008 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaczor

I believe this is a picture of the real Sohpie Hohenburg. "German East Africa, 1916" was filmed prior to "Vienna, 1908" and I'm guessing that at the time they hadn't yet cast the part of young Sophie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaczor

And this is a picture of the actress who played Sophie in "Vienna, 1908". Obviously not the same person, but a very good resemblance.

Kaczor 07-06-2008 05:27 AM

You are right. Picture of real pincess found on Wikipedia:



:)

IndyJr. 07-07-2008 07:03 PM

The actress is cuter. :p

IndyJr. 07-07-2008 07:33 PM

Here's the facts...

After the assassination, she and her brothers were taken in by Prince Jaroslav von Thun und Hohenstein (their father's close friend) to live in Czechoslovakia (it actually became it's own separate nation in 1918) until 1918 when their property was confiscated. At that point the children moved to Vienna once again. There they stayed until 1938 when they were arrested by the Nazis and placed in a Bavarian Concentration Camp where they stayed for another 7 years until 1945. After that, I don't know.

Sophie married Count Friedrich von Nostitz-Rieneck on September 8, 1920 and they had four children.

Here's my scenario: Czechoslovakia become it's own nation away from Austro-Hungarian influence on October 28, 1918. According to the Ultimate Guide, in July of 1918, Indy was in Istanbul (correct your timeline, Raiders). Then there's a gap between July and November, where Indy and Remy left to search for the Eye of the Peacock. My idea is that Indy was sent on a mission as a spy into Austrian lands where he met Sophie, say around the beginning of October. Indy and Sophie fall in love, then Indy watches as they are forced out of the newly created Czechoslovakian Empire. Indy is called back to go on another mission... to bring in Rajendra Sing who is supposedly aiding the enemy.

Stoo 07-07-2008 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaczor
The medallion with picture of Sophie saved Indy's life in "Oganga" episode but did you noticed that there was two different medallions? :D

It could be 2 photographs, both cut to fit the locket and placed back-to-back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior Jones
In this episode Indy tells of his first romance. As a boy he fell in love with Princess Sophie, daughter of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. At the end of the episode, during the "Old Indy" bookends, he is asked if he ever saw her again. He says, "Yes, but that's a story for another time."

"Did you ever see her again?"
"Of course, I did...mmph...*wink*...but that's another story!" (Exuent)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior Jones
I believe this is a picture of the real Sohpie Hohenburg. "German East Africa, 1916" was filmed prior to "Vienna, 1908" and I'm guessing that at the time they hadn't yet cast the part of young Sophie.

Agreed. Look at the necklace!

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyJr.
After the assassination, she and her brothers were taken in by Prince Jaroslav von Thun und Hohenstein (their father's close friend) to live in Czechoslovakia (it actually became it's own separate nation in 1918) until 1918 when their property was confiscated. At that point the children moved to Vienna once again. There they stayed until 1938 when they were arrested by the Nazis and placed in a Bavarian Concentration Camp where they stayed for another 7 years until 1945. After that, I don't know.

Maybe he ran into her after his operations in Flensburg? Indy traveled south to Bavaria and encountered Sophie freshly released from the camp...
Another chance-meeting scenario could have occurred before/after Indy's wacky telephone adventure in Prague.:p

AnnieJones 09-14-2009 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior Jones
I did learn that Sophie Hohenburg lived until the mid-1970's. And that leaves a lot of opportunity for Indy to meet her again.


Actually,she died on October 27,1990 at the age of 89.

AnnieJones 09-14-2009 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoo
"Did you ever see her again?"
"Of course, I did...mmph...*wink*...but that's another story!"


He did see her again,when he opened the locket after it(she)saved his life! LOL:D

Insomniac 09-14-2009 11:18 PM


Picture in locket


Locket

http://www.bondsthejewellers.co.uk/h..._pendants.html

Stoo 09-16-2009 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annie Jones
He did see her again,when he opened the locket after it(she)saved his life! LOL

Bwa-ha-ha!:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insomniac

Nice find, Insomniac. This appears to be a painting but it's clearly the source of the one of the photos in the locket. So Junior Jones was right.

Since "Vienna" aired the year after "German East Africa", I used to think that the picture in locket was of a young Vicky Prentiss (or Nancy Stratemeyer).

AnnieJones 10-03-2009 07:03 PM

The locket was also seen in:
Young Indiana Jones and the Phantom Train of Doom
Young Indiana Jones and the Treasure of the Peacock's Eye
Young Indiana Jones and the Mystery of the Blues(the only part of the locket I could see was the chain in this episode)
Young Indiana Jones and the Hollywood Follies

vf wing 10-03-2009 10:43 PM

Interesting that the wiki seems to suggest that her daughter is still alive. Some conscientious person should interview her before that sizeable chunk of history is lost to us!

Sven 11-15-2010 10:39 AM

I don't know if the following was posted in that board before but I couldn't find anything by using the search function. So here we go:

An interesting story is IMHO the fact that the real Princess Sophie was the "first cousin once removed" (duh, I needed a dictionary to find the exact term for that difficult constellation! :D ) of the actor Friedrich von Thun, who played Albert Schweitzer in the Congo episodes.

Friedrich von Thun (which is a really popular TV actor here in Germany like also his son Max) is a member of that arictocrat family...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thun-Hohenstein

...and has the full name Friedrich Ernst Peter Paul Maria Thun-Hohenstein, Graf von (Count of) Thun und Hohenstein. The sister of his grandmother (paternal side) was Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg who was murdered in Sarajevo 1914 - which led to the outbreak of WW I.

Whether the casting agents knew about that connection?

reinthal 09-06-2012 02:58 AM

Princess Sophie and Austria, March 1917
 
Something that's always bugged me is that in the episode "Austria, March 1917" (later edited into "Adventures in the Secret Service") though Indy is directly taken - along with the two princes, Sixtus & Xavier - to the palace where he meets Emperor Karl I of Austria-Hungary, he never once asks or enquires about the young Princess Sophie who he met in the episode "Vienna, November 1908" (later edited into "The Perils of Cupid").

As Princess Sophie was a cousin of Emperor Karl and as she was Indy's first love/crush and as Indy (nearly always) wore her locket around his neck (though I'm not sure if he wore it in this episode as if he had been captured and/or interrogated by the Austrian Secret Police it would have been pretty incriminating!) it seems strange that he would not ask either the Emperor, or even Sixtus and Xavier during their lengthy mission together, about her.

At the very least we could have had a brief scene where it was made clear to the audience that he really felt like asking about her but because of the importance of his mission had to restrain himself from doing so, perhaps on seeing a royal family portrait somewhere in the palace.

I always wanted to find out what ended up happening between Indy and Princess Sophie as it was pretty clear from watching the series that they would meet again (the locket and his whistful gazes at her portrait were prominent throughout the series) and this was verified when I caught Stoo's "Old Indy" bookend for this episode on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrzsNMES6ds) (thanks Stoo!:up:). It was disappointing when I had gotten through the entire series on DVD without them meeting again.:(

Anyway I thought such a scene in "Austria, March 1917" was an odd omission. It would have been the perfect time - in fact, the *only* time in the series as it stands - to broach the subject of Indy's childhood sweetheart!

Archaeos 09-06-2012 10:51 AM

reinthal, I very much agree with you.

It's almost 19 years ago when I saw that episode "Die Abenteuer des jungen Indiana Jones (The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles) - Die Prinzessin auf dem Eis (Wien 1908)" in November 1993 on German TV station Sat.1 (so, virtually 85 years after the events on screen should have taken place).

It left a big impression on me, given that family history goes well into Austro-Hungarian Vienna - my paternal grandfather was 5 years younger than Young Indy then :D :up: :rolleyes: .

The academic parts of the episode also influenced me quite a lot, on a sort of "unconscious bias" level, if you want :sleep: .

Incidentally, yesterday last year (so... eh... one year ago :p ), I saw that episode for first time ever again, on the DVD Set of "The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: Volume One — The Early Years — Perils of Cupid (Vienna + Florence 1908)" that I had just purchased. Had the same effect.
Funnily enough, I watched it with my partner, and she remembered that episode as well back from 1993, with similar sentiment. :up:

That the Sophie Fürstin von Hohenberg plotline was never picked up again is one of the really annoying aspects from the series for me, and the only loose end that I really would like to see tied up in some official way in the franchise.
The obvious oversight in what I guess is now known as "The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: Volume Two — The War Years — Adventures in the Secret Service (Austria + Petrograd 1917) is all the more aggravating, because completely unnecessary/lazy.

I also find it sad that people who have never seen the Old Indy bookends will have no indication that Sophie played a further role in Indy's life - which is absolutely plausible. Just look at the influence Otto von Habsburg had on the remaining history of Europe in the second half of the 20th century. Given that Sophie outlived Otto's mother and her relative Zita Maria delle Grazie von Bourbon-Parma by just one year, there's is ripe opportunity to pair Indy and her... (the inevitable comment has to come now...)... maybe in Indy V.

I am sure this is well-known and documented here, but just in case: Sophie's second degree nephew is of course Friedrich von Thun (und Hohenstein), who played Albert Schweitzer (see "The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: Volume Two — The War Years — Oganga, the Giver and Taker of Life (German East Africa 1916 + Congo 1917)". For any German speaker, von Thun's epic documentary series "Die Habsburger – Eine europäische Familiengeschichte" is also well worth watching.

reinthal 09-08-2012 10:36 AM

I can only imagine that Indy and Princess Sophie would've been shown meeting again in the unproduced third series of the YIJC if at all. I say this as throughout the series there's a strong indication that their relationship is important to the narrative (i.e. Indy is shown looking wistfully at her portrait in the locket on occasions, which reminds the audience of her) and we know it is a tale worth telling (i.e. from the "Old Indy" bookend).

I've had a look at the list of unproduced episodes and none of the ones listed seem a plausible meeting place for Indy and Princess Sophie: not Honduras December 1920, not Alaska June 1921, not Brazil December 1921.

All I know is that Indy doesn't wear the locket in Temple of Doom (1935) or indeed any of the films - the last we see him wearing it is in Hollywood Follies ... I'll leave you all wondering about what that little nugget of trivia means!:whip:

Stoo 09-10-2012 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reinthal
I always wanted to find out what ended up happening between Indy and Princess Sophie as it was pretty clear from watching the series that they would meet again (the locket and his whistful gazes at her portrait were prominent throughout the series) and this was verified when I caught Stoo's "Old Indy" bookend for this episode on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrzsNMES6ds) (thanks Stoo!:up:). It was disappointing when I had gotten through the entire series on DVD without them meeting again.:(

No offense to you, Reinthal, but it would be great if this topic was merged with a sympatico thread. Perhaps (Violet or another moderator could do it?)

Princess Sophie

Anyway, GREAT question about the missed opportunity!:hat: Especially considering that those chapters were 2 of the earliest 15 (out of 44) episodes to be filmed. Which means they were both conceived & written around the same time. It's a wonder why no reference was made in the later episode. The running strings throughout the series are sewn together so well but, sadly, Sophie's sort of disappears...

You're welcome for the YouTube video, Reinthal, and I like the way you write. (Ex. "whistful gazes": Nice one!):)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaeos
I also find it sad that people who have never seen the Old Indy bookends will have no indication that Sophie played a further role in Indy's life - which is absolutely plausible.

Archy, great post as always, and I agree with this. It's one of those unfortunate bits of information that gets lost with the 'repackaged' format. Thanks for the heads-up on Friedrich von Thun's documentary series. I will definitely keep an eye out.

Please see the other thread because, surely, it will interest you.:hat:

Archaeos 09-10-2012 11:43 PM

Stoo, thanks for the other Sophie thread reference. Looking forward to reading it later this week (still unpacking from Turkey and stuff). Meanwhile, I support merging the two as well.

I am unclear on the DVD status of von Thun's "Die Habsburger – Eine europäische Familiengeschichte" series. I recall having seen a big DVD boxset during a trip to Vienna in 2007, produced by the ORF. Once I hit the web to buy it, I wasn't able to find it. Sometimes, it's better to just buy it now and then, and not ponder about luggage weight and retail pricing :( .

It's up on YouTube, but with 12 episodes, and each one sub-divided into 3 YouTube shares, it's not the easiest click-through watching experience, if you know what I mean. You can catch Episode 1/12 (1 of 3) HERE.

It starts in Habsburg, Switzerland, as it's supposed to. Incidentally, I grew up just 40m/70km away from there, so know the castle from week-end outings as a kid :cool: .
I am sure you have visited it too by now.

reinthal 09-11-2012 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoo
No offense to you, Reinthal, but it would be great if this topic was merged with a sympatico thread. Perhaps (Violet or another moderator could do it?)

Princess Sophie


Sure Stoo. Merge away.

I did some searching before I started the thread but included Sophie and Sixtus and locket or something like that... :o


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