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-   -   Zahi Hawass (http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=19699)

AnnieJones 12-13-2009 10:33 PM

Zahi Hawass
 
I don't know about my fellow Raven members,but I rather like Zahi Hawass.He is interested in ancient history in such a way,that it makes other people interested in it as well.What I also like about him is he doesn't just site around in a stuffy office all day,he also gets involved in what is going on in Egypt,such as digs and other things.


Zahi Hawass is friends with actor Omar Sharif( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001725/ ).Omar Sharif was even at his sons wedding.
I think it would be good if Zahi Hawass and Harrison Ford met.

His official website is here: http://www.drhawass.com/
And here: http://www.drhawass.com/about-zahi-hawass
Zahi Hawass Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahi_Hawass

I found these interesting quotes on his website:

Quote:

People often ask me, ‘well, it’s not really as exciting as Indiana Jones, now is it?’
I reply, ‘to an archaeologist, yes, it certainly is!’

— Zahi Hawass
Quote:

The first statue I found was a statue of a dwarf.When I entered a shaft about 5 meters down,and I held this statue in my hands,it was exactly like when I held my first born son - exactly that same feeling.When you enter the shaft for the first time,that no one has entered before you - in the dark,the excitement and the adventure go to your heart,it trembles the heart,and this is why when you reveal it,you tremble the heart of the people.When you see a movie,it is thrill,but in a movie,they set this up.But for us,it is not a movie.It is real.

— Zahi Hawass
Quote:

Many people make the mistake of thinking that dreams cannot come true, but they can. You have to believe, and know that they are more than just imagination.

— Zahi Hawass
Quote:

For me, archaeology is not a just a job. It combines everything that I could want - imagination, intellect, action, and adventure.

— Zahi Hawass
Quote:

What is important to me is that I have the great good fortune to spend my days doing something I love, and being given the opportunity to make a difference in the world.

— Zahi Hawass


Personal quotes from IMDB:

Quote:

I believe that Egyptologists have a mission to teach interested young people about working in the past. Archaeology, after all, is not Indiana Jones. I encourage young people to study and prepare for the field.
Quote:

When I started excavating--you know when you see someone and fall in love right away?--that is when I found my love. And when I did that, archaeology became everything in my life. This is why I tell every young person in Egypt and outside Egypt that they have to look and wait until they find their real love.
Quote:

There is an ancient Egyptian saying that 'Man fears time, and time fears the Pyramids,' but this is no longer true. The Pyramids must fear time, too. (New York Times, August 10, 1997)



What do you think of him?






The wedding of Dr. Hawass's son.
http://www.guardians.net/hawass/news...hawass_son.htm



Omar Sharif at the wedding.

kongisking 12-14-2009 10:58 AM

Hawass is one of my heroes.

Rocket Surgeon 12-14-2009 11:19 AM

Quote:

“We own that stone,” he told al-Jazeera television recently. “The motherland should own this.”
For Dr Hawass, and many others in so-called “source” countries, this is a simple issue of restoring looted cultural property: “For all of our history, our heritage was stolen from us. They [the British Museum] kept it in a dark, badly lit room until I came and requested it.”

There are several objections to this, beginning with what he means by “we” and “the motherland”. Modern Egypt did not exist in 1799, let alone in 196BC, when the stone was carved. Unlike some controversial items in Western museums, the stone was not smuggled away, but handed over to the British as part of a legal treaty, signed not only by the French and British, but by the Ottoman Government in Egypt.

As for the absurd notion that it was undervalued and poorly exhibited: the Rosetta Stone has been on almost continuous, prominent display since 1802, the single most visited object in the entire museum.

But more than that, the Rosetta Stone is an emblem of universality, and a product of the multiple cultures that existed in the 2nd century BC, in what we now call Egypt. Dr Hawass, a brilliant and inspiring defender of the past, has selected the wrong object over which to fight a narrow, nationalistic political campaign for “repatriation”.

You think he's picking a worthy battle, or is he still searching for the elusive limelight?

AnnieJones 12-14-2009 08:13 PM

I saw a mummy for the first time in The Charleston Museum,in South Carolina,when I was in my late teens.For people like me who don't get to see ancient Egyptian artifacts,or who get to travel around the world to see them,it's a great help to see them in a museum more close to home(not just see them in books or on television).The mummy I saw was an adult woman and probably not a very important person in ancient Egyptian history.So,in my opinion,people and artifacts that aren't very important to the major parts of history can be in museums around the world,and more important people and artifacts should stay in their own country,such as the Rosetta Stone.


Maybe they could even travel the Rosetta Stone,like they do King Tut.But that's just my suggestion on what they could do.

Rocket Surgeon 12-15-2009 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnieJones
So,in my opinion,people and artifacts that aren't very important to the major parts of history can be in museums around the world,and more important people and artifacts should stay in their own country,such as the Rosetta Stone.


Seems many precious artifacts were saved from theives, protected and displayed by more developed nations.

It seems on the surface, he's a spoiled child who wants his brothers toy. So far he's only dismisseded the saftey and security of the Stone and lied about it's status in The British Museum to justify his lust for glory, (nudge nudge).

The Rosetta Stone HAS traveled before, now he says he will drop his claim for the return of the Rosetta Stone if the British Museum loaned the stone to Egypt for three months. Sounds suspicious.

Those who have had dealings with this "modern Belloq" have reservations regarding how they could guarantee artefacts would be returned at the end of the loans. To which this "reputable and respected" scholar has only replied with hyperbole, (much like mine) that "We are not Pirates of the Caribbean...I will do it..." instead of providing a plan for security the current caretakers a require for an object them deem worthy of more then lip service.

Violet 12-15-2009 07:10 PM

I never know what to think about this guy. Personally, a lot of the stuff he seems to do, is really all for personal glory.

It is quite debateable as to whether he has found anything huge a find and worthy of the text books. I think he knows that too.

One thing that I will give Hawass credit for, is creating current attention to Egypt and to it's findings. If it weren't Hawass, we wouldn't hear anything about Ancient Egypt on current affairs programs. Every controversy that comes up, he's right there, in the middle of it all.

Ten or so years ago (when Egypt was only one of many ancient societies looking at), he was the co-host in the new version of the Chariots of the Gods documentary special (along with the guy who plays Al in Home Improvement). And even that Golden Mummies special, where nothing that exceptional, despite promises before every commercial break, was found.

He's a good showman. I can't judge his academic side, obviously because I'm not an archaeologist.

Attila the Professor 01-01-2010 09:31 PM

There was a rather good, 10-page long or so profile on Hawass in the New Yorker, the November 16, 2009 issue. The text of it isn't online unless you're a subscriber, but maybe you can scrounge up a copy if you're interested enough.

At any rate, here's the abstract of the article. He clearly loves the limelight, which certainly seems a character flaw, but that's also how he's able to do much of the good he does in bringing Egyptian archaeology and Egypt generally into the public eye, so it's a mixed bag, as far as judgment goes.

On a lighter note, here's a blog, Egyptastic, that has as one of its primary purposes poking fun at him.

Rocket Surgeon 01-01-2010 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
On a lighter note, here's a blog, Egyptastic, that has as one of its primary purposes poking fun at him.


"Zahi Hawass announced my discovery"

WOW!:up:

Joosse 01-02-2010 06:22 AM

I quite like the guy. He seems like a lot of fun.

I remember though when I was on an internal flight in Egypt, I read an article in a local magazine that he insisits the hat he always wears is the same hat as Indiana Jones wears... ;)

Let's just hope his Egyptology is a little more accurate...

:)

AnnieJones 01-02-2010 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
one of its primary purposes poking fun at him.

Poking fun at him? That's a terrible thing to do!:eek:

Joosse 01-03-2010 01:59 AM

I don't know, Annie.

He seems like a guy who would laugh it off, and also one to understand that there is no such thing as bad publicity...

;)

Saber79 01-04-2010 04:12 PM

Seems like a great guy and definitely knows how to keep an audience interested. My boss met him while in Egypt. She then got him to sign his book for me. She gave it to me as a birthday present. One of my most treasured possessions!

Photobucket

Photobucket

Attila the Professor 01-05-2010 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnieJones
Poking fun at him? That's a terrible thing to do!:eek:


He also seems to invite it, don't you think?

Montana Smith 01-05-2010 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
He also seems to invite it, don't you think?


His autograph is certainly the mark of an extrovert! Looked like he wanted to cover every bit of that page.

Joosse 01-05-2010 06:05 AM

Either way, Bob, that autographed book is excellent! Congratulations!

I believe that Hawass being extroverted is quite normal for somebody coming from Egypt. You have to understand that people are different over there, and have different habits. It's quite usual to act extrovertly there.

For instance, when somebody we know dies, we might cry about it quietly in a corner.

In Egypt, they wil wail in public and go out into the streets proclaiming their grief.

So it's a cultural thing really...

Saber79 01-05-2010 08:14 AM

Thanks Joose! It was definitely a big surprise. I wish I can say I was the one who got the signature, but beggars can't be choosers.

To me, from whenever I watch one of his specials, I think its his overall enthusiasm towards anything that brings out that extraverted side.

Joosse 01-05-2010 09:30 AM

You're welcome.

I was quite surprised at the determination he showed in one of his specials as he broke his foot, but kept going anyway. If that doesn't show the man's true dedication, I don't know what does.

Mind you, a point could be made that his dedication is actually more to his own stardom than to egyptology, but I'm willing to give him a little leeway with that... ;)

Rocket Surgeon 01-05-2010 09:41 AM

Great prize...always very cool to have a personalized keepsake.

Everyone has their way of seeing things and their culture, (the Irish even paid Keeners), but that’s no substitute for respect and honesty in my book...especially on a national and public level. There's already so much discord among nations that this squeaky wheel's lies will only prove a disservice to humanity and progress.

Maybe it sparks a conversation but it undermines HIS position when he instigates with his chosen hyperbole.

Le Saboteur 01-05-2010 04:47 PM

Fellow California residents can hear Dr. Hawass speak at the War Memorial Opera House in San Francisco. Tickets are $15.00, and are on sale through Ticketmaster for the March 8 engagement.

Link here.

Quote:

Tickets are now available for a special presentation by Dr. Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of Egypt’s Supreme Council of Antiquities, at 7:30 pm on March 8, 2010 at the San Francisco Opera House. Join Dr. Hawass as he discusses the latest scientific developments in the study of the mummy of Tutankhamun, the efforts to preserve his tomb in the Valley of Kings, and plans for the new museum in Giza. Tickets are $15 and are available at www.ticketmaster.com.

Dr. Hawass is internationally known for his work preserving the antiquities and monuments of Egypt. His familiar face and hat are regularly seen on the National Geographic, Discovery and Science Channels where he reveals the secrets and mysteries of ancient Egypt, the pyramids, and Egyptian pharaohs.

Joosse 01-06-2010 02:34 AM

$15 is a sweet deal.

Too bad it would probably cost me another $900 for the plane ticket... :(

Saber79 01-06-2010 08:09 AM

Hopefully he'll come to New York City, then it will be a 45 minute drive for me!

Archaeologist 01-08-2010 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violet Indy
I never know what to think about this guy. Personally, a lot of the stuff he seems to do, is really all for personal glory.

It is quite debateable as to whether he has found anything huge a find and worthy of the text books. I think he knows that too.



Since archaeology is not known to be a profession people get rich from or people donate huge sums of money too (by that I mean enough to frequently have Research Excavations rather than salvage or CRM digs), there are people like Hawass (and others) who need the media to create funding and public awareness about archaeology. Funding being the most important, because with the proper funding archaeologists can better educate the public without the help of certain poorly written Discovery docs. Personal glory? Well, I am sure he didn't get into archaeology for the attention!

As far as finding huge finds... Come on! Most archaeologists do not find what the media would consider a huge find. What I did find interesting that he helped discover was the tomb of the pyramid builders with inscriptions proving that the workers were conscribed and no Cecile B. DeMille like slave teams. The bodies uncovered were given medical treatment, etc. as well. I think that that is a huge find, but is it golden and shiny? Can it be toured in a museum? No. Still, it is text book worthy.

But what I do not like about Hawass is his stance on egyptian artifacts in other countries. I have expressed this before on previous discussions, but the general stance I have is that it should not be about nationalism or tourism (nationalism being Hawass's stance: egypt should have everything egyptian back!), but rather about what is best for the artifacts. The Neues Museum housing the Nefertiti in Berlin has a special chamber housing ONLY the bust with guards at each entrance and in the chamber with their main function making sure tourists do not use cameras (it used to be only NO FLASH for preservation reasons, but too many people broke this rule and now it is simply no photos at the moment; a good example of putting the artifacts first).

So, in conclusion, I think he is a good egyptologist and doing what every leader or proponent of archaeology would like to do. If he likes it while helping archaeology, who cares? I would rather watch someone on TV who wants to be on TV than someone who doesn't care. And not every archaeologist will make it to the text books, but that does not mean their discoveries are any less significant. Perhaps reading a scholarly journal instead of a general or layman's text book and one can easily see how many archaeologists have been published and contributed towards history. I disagree with his stance on artifacts, but I do like his stance on the proponents of a link between the pyramids and Atlantis: Those people are 'Pyram-idiots!'; reflecting his discovery of the Pyramid builders that greatly discredits Atlantis and Aliens.
:dead: is this a zombie Indy?

Attila the Professor 01-08-2010 06:20 AM

I'm glad you're here, actually, Archaeologist. One of the things that stood out in the recent New Yorker piece on Hawass was, apart from the fact that he usually puts forth his findings on television sooner than anywhere else, that when he does publish, he doesn't do so in peer-reviewed journals. Do you have anything to offer on that?

Archaeologist 01-08-2010 07:29 AM

Not publishing in a peer-reviewed journal is not good, albeit the journals I do have access to through university neither have egyptology or journals in arabic. However, at least he is publishing when he does and it is available to the masses. Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities I sure has its own paper work and battling through the time consuming process of being published by a scholarly journal is likely not a top priority.

Again, at least he is publishing something. Think of all of the archaeological projects going on in the US alone. Now the world. Then consider the amount that is written about in scholarly journals. It does not mean these unpublished archaeologists are not contributing to the understanding of history.

I have had too many field directors that do not make available, scholarly or otherwise, their finds, but rather leave them in an esoteric archive or wait until someone asks them. With the internet and websites, there is no excuse not to publish something, and at the very least he has done that.

Since I am not an egyptologist nor can I read arabic (assuming that it would be easier and quicker for him to write in this language and perhaps publish in), I do not know the full extent of his publications. I have not been published yet, but if I had reached the level of media publicity (or infamy as it seems to some) as Hawass then I would likewise publish under the assumption that the people who know me are interested in the subject and know where they can get it.

Personally, I prefer scholarly journals. But if his goal is to educate the public, then his non-journal publications are not bad. Laymen terms, easy to read, and therefore can be picked up by the masses, his main target.

Has anyone looked into publications by archaeologists working for Zahi Hawass? Just curious.
:dead: Mummy Indy

Archaeologist 01-11-2010 08:17 AM

Yahoo news just had a "latest Discovery" about more evidence the Pyramids were not built by slaves. Hawass does most of the talking, however, it should be noted that Adel Okasha is the supervisor of the excavation, which means he is the person who should be publishing in scholarly journals whether arabic or english.
So although Hawass does all of the talking and book writing (e.g. Pyramid Builders; actually wasn't some of his university work, which would be unpublished, on this subject? Can't recall where I heard that though), there are other people with more intimate knowledge about sites that should publish for scholars and leave Hawass to write general material promoting the subject.

CairoJones 01-29-2010 01:45 PM

Dr. Hawass is my hero me and my grandmother have already been to Egypt once and plan to go back. I once wrote to Zahi and he said he would be glad to meet me and we are trying to save money to go back and meet him I also own most of his books and one is signed.

AnnieJones 01-29-2010 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CairoJones
Dr. Hawass is my hero me and my grandmother have already been to Egypt once and plan to go back.

Really!I wish I could go.
Quote:

Originally Posted by CairoJones
I once wrote to Zahi and he said he would be glad to meet me and we are trying to save money to go back and meet him I also own most of his books and one is signed.

If you ever get to meet him please tell us what he was like.:up:

AnnieJones 02-02-2010 03:11 PM

Look what I found!:up:I love this picture!
http://www.drhawass.com/photoblog/fan-art

Joosse 02-03-2010 01:17 AM

Nice find, Annie! :D

I have to say, I love this quote as well:

People often ask me, ‘well, it’s not really as exciting as Indiana Jones, now is it?’
I reply, ‘to an archaeologist, yes, it certainly is!’

— Zahi Hawass

Goodeknight 02-11-2010 07:36 AM

Dr. Hawass has a number of great qualities, first being his enthusiasm for his subject. He's a scholar, but also a kid in a candy store when it comes to field work and the history of Egypt.

Many scholars lean heavily toward the stuffy side. Hawass makes Egyptology accessible and enjoyable. That's why he's so great on camera.

I never had an opportunity to meet him, though I lived in Egypt for two years while studying anthropology, sociology, and Egyptology at the American University in Cairo. That was 95-97 so it was just before he really came into the media limelight. He's done quite a bit in the field, even if he hasn't discovered anything like Tut's tomb. Remember, archaeology is the science of studying past cultures, not the adventure of finding gold relics. Simple finds that never make it past the pages of KMT (a scholarly journal on Egyptian archaeology), usually tell us more about daily life in ancient Egypt than the artifacts found in a king's tomb.

Another big plus, in my opinion, is that Hawass is actually an Egyptian with a high position in his field in Egypt. That's good to see. I did my Master's thesis on Edward Said's Orientalism. Said basically says the west dominates the east and uses it for an imperialistic playground. Often true, though I disagree with much of what Said wrote. (Said had issues with his father, and I think they carried over to his view of the west.) But it's good to see an Egyptologist who isn't American or British.

Finally, regarding his push for the return of artifacts to Egypt, he's completely justified, particularly in cases where significant finds were essentially smuggled out of the country. The Rosetta Stone was taken during French occupation, and the bust of Nefertiti was (if I recall correctly) smothered in mud and shipped out as 'another unfinished bust' from a workshop. Though its value was known immediately by the German team that discovered it, they snuck it out of the country, bounced it around museums for a while low key, and eventually displayed it as the bust of the famed Queen Nefertiti. Rather nefarious.

The village of Gourna outside of Luxor is famed for being the home to many generations of looters, who built their homes over the entrances to tombs. They looted for a living, and sold mummies and grave goods to archaeologists, tourists, and curators. If they found gold statues, they usually melted them down because selling a bar of gold was easier than fencing a gold statue. Sad to think how many statues or other gold relics were lost because of that. So there are literally thousands and thousands of stolen artifacts scattered around the world. Hawass just want to get some of the more important ones back.

Hawass also assisted in getting the mummy of Ramses I returned to Egypt after a museum bought the Egyptian collection from a museum of the bizarre in Canada at Niagra Falls. Good going there.

As was said earlier, less important artifacts or even minor mummies should be displayed around the world. Egyptian history is the world's history. But Hawass is right in thinking royal mummies, and artifacts like the Rosetta Stone and bust of Nefertiti should be returned to Egypt. They belong in a museum! The Egyptian Museum!

Rocket Surgeon 02-11-2010 10:10 AM

He's a liar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodeknight
Finally, regarding his push for the return of artifacts to Egypt, he's completely justified, particularly in cases where significant finds were essentially smuggled out of the country. The Rosetta Stone was taken during French occupation...Rather nefarious.

Egyptian history is the world's history. But Hawass is right in thinking royal mummies, and artifacts like the Rosetta Stone ...should be returned to Egypt. They belong in a museum! The Egyptian Museum!


“We own that stone,” he told al-Jazeera television recently. “The motherland should own this.”
For Dr Hawass, and many others in so-called “source” countries, this is a simple issue of restoring looted cultural property: “For all of our history, our heritage was stolen from us. They [the British Museum] kept it in a dark, badly lit room until I came and requested it.”

There are several objections to this, beginning with what he means by “we” and “the motherland”. Modern Egypt did not exist in 1799, let alone in 196BC, when the stone was carved. Unlike some controversial items in Western museums, the stone was not smuggled away, but handed over to the British as part of a legal treaty, signed not only by the French and British, but by the Ottoman Government in Egypt.

As for the absurd notion that it was undervalued and poorly exhibited: the Rosetta Stone has been on almost continuous, prominent display since 1802, the single most visited object in the entire museum.

But more than that, the Rosetta Stone is an emblem of universality, and a product of the multiple cultures that existed in the 2nd century BC, in what we now call Egypt.

Montana Smith 02-11-2010 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
He's a liar.



“We own that stone,” he told al-Jazeera television recently. “The motherland should own this.”
For Dr Hawass, and many others in so-called “source” countries, this is a simple issue of restoring looted cultural property: “For all of our history, our heritage was stolen from us. They [the British Museum] kept it in a dark, badly lit room until I came and requested it.”

There are several objections to this, beginning with what he means by “we” and “the motherland”. Modern Egypt did not exist in 1799, let alone in 196BC, when the stone was carved. Unlike some controversial items in Western museums, the stone was not smuggled away, but handed over to the British as part of a legal treaty, signed not only by the French and British, but by the Ottoman Government in Egypt.


That's a very valid point. There is still a debate as to the ethnic origins of ancient Egyptians, whether they were African, Asiatic, or Mediterranean. Or more likely, they were a mixed race from early times. Modern Egypt is still a hybrid nation, having gone through Arab domination.

However, the rights and wrongs of appropriating artifacts from Egypt is a tangled dilemma. Regardless of the motives of earler 'appropriators', the artifacts were at least preserved from destruction by grave robbers.

There is no definitive answer as to the legal ownership of the artifacts, except for the political horse trading that occurs between nations when they each have something to gain from a transfer.

If a country claims the rights to the minerals beneath the surface of its land, can it also claim the minerals that were extracted from its land by a previous civilization?

To that same regard, can a country claim back the artifacts which belonged to a previous civilization, which were taken from the land that they now occupy?

Those are rhetorical questions, as the answer would only be found through complicated arguments.

Goodeknight 02-11-2010 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
the stone was not smuggled away, but handed over to the British as part of a legal treaty, signed not only by the French and British, but by the Ottoman Government in Egypt.
.



The Rosetta Stone was part of the booty getting divvied up after the French and British met on Egyptian soil as imperialists sweeping through to take what they wanted and leave Egypt crumbling in the dust of the ages. (Read Said's Orientalism.) No real treaty or peace process involved. We're not talking about taking away a country's biological weapons. This was a bully coming in to take the best toys.

Rocket Surgeon 02-11-2010 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodeknight
No real treaty or peace process involved. We're not talking about taking away a country's biological weapons. This was a bully coming in to take the best toys.


Yeah, before the ADD Egyptian kid ripped the limbs from all the toys, lost some in the sand box and sold the remains to a different nation albeit in unrecognizable pieces!

No surprise this is where our opinions diverge, so you can don your sack cloth, rest (on) your ashes and gnash your teeth wailing for the return of the Stone. But guess what, it’s safe in Britain. Egypt can’t guarantee it’s safety and Heidi Zawass should be kissing England’s pasty white ass for rescuing it from money hungry glory hounds looter thieves and charlatans like Heidi himself!

The Rosetta Stone isn’t Hong Kong baby, so don’t hold your breath! (…or do, you might enjoy it!) Egypt has more important problems to solve before the Stone, it’s not as though they haven’t been passing the reproduction off as the original, (LIARS!).

By the way, I'm just not going to read your sited volume to corroborate some claim YOU'VE made. That's like the hyperbole Heidi Zawass has put forth in claiming the Stone would be safe, and providing no real plan. Please site chapter page, ect. in support of your claim and what new age bookstore or traveling gypsy I need to find in order to view it. Oh and Dannekin Von Erick, (Leaping Lanny Poppov?) wrote a book about Flying Saucers, should we be putting the Stone back until the Aliens come back for it?

The Egyptians stole it from the Aliens...they were the ones who cracked the Alien language off the top! If we still had that we could send them a message they could understand to come back and get it!

Archaeologist 02-11-2010 03:07 PM

Whoa... OK.

Anyway, just commenting on the Nefertiti, about it being covered in mud or something along those lines to be smuggled out. I am fairly certain that the allegation is false for two reasons. The first is that the German archaeologists and "preservationists" of the day were notoriously bad when it came to washing artifacts. I say this because a number of the Egyptian artifacts had been removed of their pigments during cleaning :( and I could see this easily happening, especially turn of the century trying to remove mud or anything else covering the bust.
The second is the argument over the legal documents from 1924. Whether or not they were ethical, etc is irrelevant IF someone had evidence or it was a fact that it was smuggled out of the country in the way described. The documents were misleading, or the bust was in a crate, or the Egyptian inspector didn't know what material it was made from, are all good excuses for trying to get out of a legal document. I would think that if they had proof it was snuck out they would be going down that road rather than arguing legal documents with, frankly, childish excuses.

But otherwise Hawass is an alright guy in my opinion. :up: But I don't know what he meant with having to be shown the Rosetta Stone because he asked. I've seen it, and so have a lot of other people. Perhaps the comment is just out of context. Oh and speaking out of context, Nefertiti has a sweet set up in the Neues Museum! But I think I mentioned that in an earlier post.

Goodeknight 02-11-2010 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Please site chapter page, ect. in support of your claim and what new age bookstore or traveling gypsy I need to find in order to view it. Oh and Dannekin Von Erick, (Leaping Lanny Poppov?) wrote a book about Flying Saucers, should we be putting the Stone back until the Aliens come back for it?

The Egyptians stole it from the Aliens...they were the ones who cracked the Alien language off the top! If we still had that we could send them a message they could understand to come back and get it!


Come on, Rocket Surgeon, the Narmer Palette was the one left by aliens. It has the alien chief-god-astronaut on one side, and alien giraffes on the other. Duh. (And the little circle on the back isn't nearly big enough to be a stargate.)

Incidentally, if you don't know Said's Orientalism is one of the most cited and respected works in modern academia (though I disagree with the majority of what he says), then you should really get off the "Archaeology" thread and go back to some of the fan pages with the teenagers. Your logic is so skewed it's boring. :sleep:

Rocket Surgeon 02-11-2010 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodeknight
Come on, Rocket Surgeon, the Narmer Palette was the one left by aliens.


So know you're an expert on Alien archaeology! Like that was the ONLY artifact left by Richard Branson's species, (oops!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodeknight
Incidentally, if you don't know Said's Orientalism is one of the most cited and respected works in modern academia (though I disagree with the majority of what he says), then you should really get off the "Archaeology" thread and go back to some of the fan pages with the teenagers.

Yeah, there's someone who posts on the board who actually want's you to back up your bullsh!t! Please, scoffing at something you cannot know unless you ask is almost as childish as posting it in the first place...come on!

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodeknight
Your logic is so skewed it's boring. :sleep:

Silly me, I thought I'd respond with the same type of outlandish examples and opinions as you! (Though I may not agree with them:rolleyes: ).

Stoo 02-12-2010 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodeknight
The Rosetta Stone was part of the booty getting divvied up after the French and British met on Egyptian soil as imperialists sweeping through to take what they wanted and leave Egypt crumbling in the dust of the ages. (Read Said's Orientalism.) No real treaty or peace process involved. We're not talking about taking away a country's biological weapons. This was a bully coming in to take the best toys.

In retrospect, it is easy to make the "bully" comment but what exactly was Egypt doing to preserve their heritage in those (pre-Napoleonic) times? The Egyptian Museum DID NOT EVEN EXIST back then and there doesn't seem to have been much serious research into Egyptology until Europeans started doing the legwork. Who was leaving Egypt to "crumble in the dust for ages"? British & French imperialists or the Egyptians themselves?

Re: the Rosetta Stone being "part of the booty getting divvied up" between the France and Britain...are you sure that is correct? From what I understand, there is no clear explanation as to how it ended up in British hands. (As much as it pains me to say this, France should have it!:eek: They found it, they cracked the code with it...)

I admire Dr. Hawass to certain extent. His showmanship certainly can't hurt the generation of interest in Egyptian history. Afterall, a copy of his signature hat is available to buy: http://store.exhibitmerchandising.co...AAIAHILPMLCFEA

P.S. Why do you keep citing Said's Orientalism, if you "disagree with the majority of what he says"?:confused:

Goodeknight 02-12-2010 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoo
In retrospect, it is easy to make the "bully" comment but what exactly was Egypt doing to preserve their heritage in those (pre-Napoleonic) times? The Egyptian Museum DID NOT EVEN EXIST back then and there doesn't seem to have been much serious research into Egyptology until Europeans started doing the legwork. Who was leaving Egypt to "crumble in the dust for ages"? British & French imperialists or the Egyptians themselves?


Good point, but also keep in mind that those earliest antiquarians blew holes in pyramids with dynamite while looking for loot (Richard Vyse, 1830s or 40s I believe). They weren't exactly preservationists until Petrie came along in the 1880s, after about a century of pilfering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoo
I admire Dr. Hawass to certain extent. His showmanship certainly can't hurt the generation of interest in Egyptian history. Afterall, a copy of his signature hat is available to buy: http://store.exhibitmerchandising.co...AAIAHILPMLCFEA


Totally agree, and nice link. Wow, the guy has his own signature hat. The other man with the hat is back, and his name is Zahi Hawass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoo
P.S. Why do you keep citing Said's Orientalism, if you "disagree with the majority of what he says"?:confused:


Another good point, Stoo. For this discussion, Orientalism serves its purpose. I agree with Said that the west has a strong tendency to subjugate the east. But he goes way overboard after making that basic statement.

Montana Smith 02-13-2010 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoo
In retrospect, it is easy to make the "bully" comment but what exactly was Egypt doing to preserve their heritage in those (pre-Napoleonic) times? The Egyptian Museum DID NOT EVEN EXIST back then and there doesn't seem to have been much serious research into Egyptology until Europeans started doing the legwork. Who was leaving Egypt to "crumble in the dust for ages"? British & French imperialists or the Egyptians themselves?


Yes, there is always a danger of placing modern sensibilities onto arguments over imperialism. Whilst the motives of the imperialists can be largely condemned, some good has emerged from their quest to dominate or oversee. Who's to say what might have happened to the treasures of Egypt if Europeans hadn't spirited them away? Grave robbing is as old as the pyramids, and grave robbers without a care for the past are just as likely to melt gold down or split up valuables for sale, whilst smashing their way past 'lesser' artifacts.

I've read Said's work through colonial studies (which was part of both English Literatature and History at degree level). A large part of Said's argument is the relationship between the dominant European and the subaltern native, something like a father and child relationship, in bald terms the white's attempts to educate and control the savages, thereby creating a relationship of value to the white powers (as in colonialism rather than simple imperialism).

It's a distasteful and patronising concept to our modern outlook, yet it is still a functioning model today in some parts of the world, and through the eyes of some dominating powers.

Yet by taking control of the lives of 'savages', Europeans were simultaneously preserving those things that the native people were not protecting, or did not have the means to protect.

Of course, not all Europeans were enlightened, and some were no better than grave robbers searching only for the intrinsically valuable items, rather than preserving everything of historical value.

As I wrote before, the issue of ownership is a tangled one. We do not know what might have happened to objects that were not preserved by the Europeans. They may have laid safe and undiscovered until the enlightened age of archaeology, or they might have been destroyed or broken up, and scattered across the world. If Egypt wants objects returned (and these are objects pertaining to a culture that is no longer represented by modern Egypt), is there a case that Egypt must pay for all the years of protection and preservation that the European powers have given to the treasures that they claim?

Also, as I wrote before, ownership will probably only be decided through international horse trading. Objects may be returned for political or other gain if the timing suits both parties.

Rocket Surgeon 02-13-2010 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Whilst


I really like that word. I've seen it in The Raven before, but not for some time. :hat:

Montana Smith 02-14-2010 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
I really like that word. I've seen it in The Raven before, but not for some time. :hat:


I'm a frequent user, so can I claim the equivalent of air miles whilst using it? :hat:

AnnieJones 02-20-2010 10:24 PM

A while ago I remember watching a movie called,Legend of the Lost Tomb,with Zahi Hawass(he wasn't a main character) he played himself as a tour guide.The movie was kind of corny,but years went by that I didn't watch it,and when my family got cable,Zahi Hawass was on an educational channel and then I remembered back,when I was watching that movie and I thought,"Hey,I remember seeing him in that movie!"That movie was the first time that I saw him.

Le Saboteur 05-12-2010 04:58 AM

The Al Jazeera interview from '07.



And a more recent addition to the topic.


Le Saboteur 06-29-2010 10:47 PM

Dr. Hawass is coming to the History Channel in July! Starting on 14 July Dr. Hawass and "his cadre of fellows unearth astonishing finds and tackle some of the world's greatest archaeological riddles, from who built the pyramids to the location of Cleopatra's tomb. It's a whirlwind tour, led by the man who holds the keys to Egypt's greatest antiquities and rules his world like a modern-day pharaoh."



Once you're finished with the video, drop in on the site! You can also see a higher quality version of the trailer, and read up on the unfortunate souls who signed on for this trip!

And if you browse through Youtube, some of the audition tapes are fairly amusing.

Goodeknight 06-30-2010 11:07 AM

Sweet!!

Wish I was one of the "volunteers."

And this answers the original question that started the thread. Zahi Hawass ROCKS!

It'll be a great show, even if it is completely cheesy, over the top, and has zero intellectual value. Can't wait to see it. :up:

Goodeknight 06-30-2010 01:31 PM

After all, TV archaeology is the search for adventure, not facts. If you want facts, the library is right down the road.

StoneTriple 07-04-2010 08:53 AM

I have to agree with Violet. He comes across as a bit of an attention hound. He's fallen from the pure faith.

Goonie 07-15-2010 03:32 AM

CNN's Quiz Zahi Hawass
 
CNN has this little feature where you can ask various celebrities and well-known individuals questions. This time it's Zahi Hawass. You can post a question to Dr. Hawass here:
http://connecttheworld.blogs.cnn.com...hawass/?hpt=T2

I wonder how he would do with Indiana Jones movie trivia? ;)

teampunk 07-21-2010 02:39 PM

i do love the show. it's not really true archaeology, but it's what every indiana jones fan wants archaeology to be. and while he might be an attention hound, he does get people interested in preserving the past. and that is a good thing. zahi hawass rocks in my book!


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