Temple of the Forbidden Eye on the Indy Timeline
 

Reading through the Indy Timeline, I was actually surprised to see that there was no mention of 'Temple Of The Forbidden Eye' even though there is extensive back-story considering how closely Walt Disney Imagineering worked with George Lucas to effectively place the events along the official Timeline.

I'm working from memory here, so it may be a bit fuzzy.

Spring 1935:

Indy procures an ancient map leading to the fabled Temple Of The Forbidden Eye which lie flooded in India's Lost Delta for over 2,000 years, only recently having dried up. In order to construct a complete map, he visits every conceivable area of the Temple, including all 3 Chambers filled with gifts from the Temple God Mara. He does not drink from the Fountain of Eternal Youth for fear of poison; nor does he take any Earthly Riches; however he does glimpse into the Visions of the future and sees himself and Sallah lifting the Ark of the Covenant. Once he has mapped out the entire Temple, he gives the go ahead for the Lost Delta Expedition, headed by long time friend Sallah, to set up shop. Indy oversees the initial setup, during which concerns over the financial state of the expedition arise. Sallah comes up with the idea of opening the Temple to tourists to finance the continued exploration. Indy is apprehensive about the idea, but agrees to begin preparations for tours to commence. Unfortunately, Indy is forced to leave the expedition before he is certain the Temple is ready for tourists.

Spring 1936:

While he was away, Sallah has gone ahead and opened the Temple to tourists. Tales of the Temple of the Forbidden Eye travel around the world and it becomes the new vacation hot spot. Shortly thereafter Sallah realizes that not all Tour groups are returning, and visitors begin to claim that loved ones have disappeared inside. These reports reach Indy, who returns to the Temple in the Spring of 1936 to assist Sallah. He enters the Temple and spends a week inside looking for the Temple's Source of Power. Realizing it lies beyond the Gates of Doom, he enters the Chamber of Destiny and looks into the Eyes of Mara, which opens the pathway down the Tunnel of Torment towards the Gates of Doom. As he is about to enter them, he realizes a group of Tourists is headed right behind him towards the Gates of Doom as well. Indy closes the Gates of Doom to break Mara's control over the Tourists and then helps them out of the Temple, battling Mummies, Bugs, Snakes, Rats and finally a Giant Boulder. After Indy exits the Temple, he closes off Access to the Temple, leaving the Lost Delta Expedition without a source of income, forcing them to abandon the dig.


Okay, so I'm filling in the blanks some, but that's basically what happens in a nutshell. I realize there's a lot more detail; including Telegrams between Indy and Abner Ravenwood, as well as a telegram stating that Belloq had inquired about the Temple and would be traveling towards it.

If anyone has further details, please add them.

I'm not entirely sure of the Temple Of The Crystal Skull's timeline or backstory; so I don't know if it is in fact as detailed as the one for Temple Of The Forbidden Eye. However, considering how detailed these items were for Temple Of The Forbidden Eye, it's not hard to place it acceptably into the Indy Timeline.

The Temple of the Forbidden Eye isn't the Delta Expedition; the Temple of the Crystal Skull is. The Crystal Skull features an Aztec temple versus the Forbidden Eye's Indian temple, and the Crystal Skull Temple is located in the Lost River Delta area of it's park, which is used to represent South America.

Lost River Delta would in fact be the location of the Temple of the Crystal Skull. However, Temple of the Forbidden Eye is located in India's Lost Delta. The camp area is marked with the Lost Delta Expedition on various items, including the side of the Cargo Truck we have stationed right outside the Temple (which is in fact the Cargo Truck seen in RotLA).

Delta's are not specific to South America. The River Delta Wiki page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_delta ) has a full listing of all known worldwide River Deltas.

I found full listing of all Telegrams ( http://users.aol.com/barjesse/indyltrs.htm ); including one from Col. Blumbard (Temple Of Doom).

Furthermore, it seems Indy was beckoned back to the US by Marcus Brody in September 1935. I think it's safe to assume Emperor's Tomb / Temple Of Doom occurs after he finds the Temple (Considering Telegrams date the beggining of the Quest for the Temple of the Forbidden Eye back to June 1935) closer to the end of 1935.

As for his return, the Telegrams details Indy finds out about the media attention and intends to return early June 1936; however he does not do so until the first week of July, which is when he disappears inside the Temple.

EDIT TO MAIN TIMELINE: It seems Indy did not in fact look into Mara's Eye, but instead followed a hidden passage to reach the Gates of Doom.

Ahhh, I see. I just scanned the wiki page looking for things; I must've missed that info. Good catch.

I'm tired. That must be it.

Actually, I think it is on the time line in the ultimate guide book that just came out.

I have seriously got to get to all the Disney Land parks to ride the Indy rides. While I love the stunt show, I have seen it enough now that I would like to spend the next few trips visting a different Disney park and checking out the ride. It sounds amazing.

Let me tell you, it's a whole 'nother experience. It just...I dunno. Even at my lowest point of Indy fandom, the Temple of the Forbidden Eye was still my favorite ride at DisneyLand. I used to live in California, so I'd go all the time.

You know what's even better? Waiting in line. Seriously. Should you ever go to DisneyLand, go during a big weekend so the lines will fill up (although, with Kingdom coming out tomorrow, the lines for Temple are probably full right now) and you'll be forced to wait in line. The experience is pure Indy. You cross a rope bridge, descend into the Temple itself, and wind around passageways and crawlspaces. There's even traps to set off. Yes, traps. And after all that, then you get to go on the ride. The whole experience is so spot on and "Indy" that it's like stepping into one of the movies for half an hour or so. Big grins everytime.

If I ever get to these rides I plan to enjoy the lines and try to find all the hidden things, take pictures, be a real Indy geek. Thanks for the tip.

Before the Ultimate Guide came out, I always thought that "Temple of the Forbidden Eye" would immediately follow Temple of Doom. He was in India and, "it's a long way to Delhi."

That still makes the most sense to me, frankly, regardless of what the time line says. Also, of course, the bit about Abner sending telegrams is a bit silly, unless it's a fake Abner set up by the Nazis or some such.

I never knew about any of the telegrams until reading this thread. It IS silly to have Abner sending telegrams to Indy in '35 when Indy states in Raiders that they haven't spoken in ten years, but I doubt anyone was looking at continuity when the built the ride.

Disneyland isn't going to hold true to all of the storylines for they're ride. I bet most ppl don't even notice those things in the line lol.


I always like looking in Indy's office when I go in there, they have a ton of props from the movies in the room, like his fan from last crusade, his hat, and they even have a Time Magazine with mickey on his desk. That room has a ton of Indy/Disney easter eggs inside.

Oh yeah, I love waiting in line for the Indy ride. You definitely feel like Indy. I always tell my parents, "One day when I can afford to have my own house built, this is gonna be what it's like to get to my home theater room." LMAO!!

Love the interactive stuff, too. My favorite is pulling the descending spike ceiling trap on unsuspecting people! Though the last couple times I was there, the pole that triggers the trap was gone. :( Hopefully it was just being reburished or something, because I love pulling that on people. It's always the first ride I hit up when I go to Disneyland, and I usually ride it an average of 4-5 times per visit. Fortunately, we always go during the off-season so the crowds are a little less and it's not too much trouble to wait in line for it that many times. I think the most I've ever waited was maybe one hour.

Just too bad that people who go there for the first time now miss out on some the neat little stuff you could get when it first opened, like the decoder cards for the Maraglyphs throughout the ride (I still have a bunch somewhere) and the really cool fold-out map of the whole temple that used to be sold at the adventure outpost store across from the ride entrance.

I put the telegrams in mostly coherent order here:
http://raven.theraider.net/showpost.php?p=292893

The Indiana Jones timeline is a mess. Figuring out when "Forbidden Eye" takes place depends upon where you place "Raiders" and "Temple". The timeline in the "Ultimate Guide" states that "Temple" takes place in June, 1935, and that Indiana discovered the temple of Mara from the ride in July of that year, on his way back from India. This seems to jive with the telegrams from the attaction, which begin in July, 1935.

However, the Ultimate Guide also states that "Raiders" takes place from February to April, 1936...whereas the attraction telegrams imply that Indy and Sallah were involved with the Temple excavation until at least July 1936. More to the point, Abner Ravenwood's last telgram is dated July 1936, while the Ultimate Guide's timeline has him perish between March and April of 1936. And of course, Indy supposedly hasn't heard from Abner for years in Raiders anyway.

But wait, that's not all! The Lost Journal of Indiana Jones places "Temple" in December, 1935, and has Raiders taking place from May to August of 1936. Some thoughts on these placements:

Indy says he needs to get back to his University in Temple of Doom. This statement would make more sense if the movie was set in December (with the new semester beginning in January) than in June (with practically the whole summer open).

The Raiders novel says that Indy's lecture at the beginning of the film was his first of the year. This is more forgivable if this part of the movie is set in February, rather than May. (Geez, Indy, did you ditch your class for nearly the whole semester?!)

There is snow on the ground near Indy's house in Raiders, making the February placement more likely.

So there are two different placements for the first two Indy movies, and Temple of the Forbidden Eye doesn't fit into either one. Two retcons are essential if we're to try to make it fit:

#1: The dates on the telegrams are in error.

#2: "Abner Ravenwood" is not the real Abner Ravenwood, and Indy knows it. Perhaps he is, as Attila the Professor suggested, a Nazi agent. Or perhaps Henry Sr. is posing as Ravenwood in order to help his son out; not realizing that Abner had died during his correspondence. Maybe Professor Oxley was using the name. Maybe Abner had a cousin of the same name. Maybe this could be connected to the search for Abner Ravenwood storyline in the Marvel comics...

TC

Regarding Abner, there are a few theories I have...

#1 - When Indy told the government he hadn't spoken to Abner in 10 years he could have meant in person or he could have been holding out information to protect Abner because he didn't fully trust them.

#2 - It could have in fact been a fake Abner. There are 3 telegrams from Abner and it appears Abner initiated contact with Indy to congratulate him on his find. At this point Indy sends Abner some samples, perhaps to test him rather than actually needing advice.

As for dates...

Let's divide TotFE into 2 parts. Part 1 - Initial Discovery and Exploration. Part 2 - Tourist Recscue.

TotFE Part 1 - June through September 1935
TotFE Part 2 - June through July 1936

Now given Indy warns Sallah to look out for Belloq during TotFE Part 2, that means RotLA must occur afterwards.

If the lecture at the beggining of RotLA is the first of the year, perhaps they mean school year rather than calendar wise. This would effectively place it around Late August / September.

As for the Guides... I'm going to assume the Ultimate Guide used the script/novelization and the misinterpretation carried through.

The Lost Journal could still be correct though if you place Peru in May; then TotFE Part 2 occuring in June/July; then the rest of RotLA occurs in August. It's not really too hard to believe that Indy heard of the Tourist Disappearance upon returning home from Peru and decided to take a detour. Then the lecture in the beggining of the film could either be Indy closing out the semester or beggining a Summer Session.

Furthermore TheRaider.net's Timeline places RotLA in Late 1936. Now my question there is where did that information come from? It seems the most logical explanation.

Temple Of Doom is a lot easier to place. It fits in either piece. You can place is both immediately before or immediately thereafter TotFE Part 1.

You could argue it comes before. A friend of mine made the argument that after ToD Indy doesn't want to return home empty handed, so he asks Sallah for help to complete the map to the fabled Temple and seeks it out rather than going home. But then again, this begs the eternal question: "What happened to Willie and Short Round?". They don't figure into the TotFE tale, so if he did go after it post-ToD, he must have dropped them off at Delhi and run off on his own.

As for ToD in late 1935 argument, we have a lot more to support it. The Journal entries in the Emperor's Tomb go to September 1935, which is when we can assume the actual game story starts. Then we also have the comments you have mentioned.

So The Lost Journal does in fact create a plausible timeline. The Ultimate Guide's dates really don't seem to jive with... anything really. I'm very much calling into question where they got their data.

In any case Lucas is holding out somewhere. However he was very heavily involved with Walt Disney Imagineering, so I'm inclined to assume the Telegram dates are in fact accurate.

We just need to put together the pieces around it.

Ok, let's set aside the Ultimate Guide for a sec and see if we can patch things up:

1935

June-September,


As for dates...

Let's divide TotFE into 2 parts. Part 1 - Initial Discovery and Exploration. Part 2 - Tourist Recscue.
>If the lecture at the beggining of RotLA is the first of the year, perhaps they mean school year rather than calendar wise. This would effectively place it around Late August / September.<

That's not a bad fix. Unfortunately, while the Peru segment is dated for late May, the Journal also states that Marion and Indy arrive in Cairo on August 1st...and there's still the matter of the snow on the ground, which rules out a summer session for his Archeology 101 class.

I'm not even sure how much we want to rely on the novelization, on closer inspection, given that Indy says it's been "years" since he's seen Sallah, which conflicts with the novels, the Lost Journal and Temple of the Forbidden Eye.

>Furthermore TheRaider.net's Timeline places RotLA in Late 1936. Now my question there is where did that information come from? It seems the most logical explanation.<

I agree, although that doesn't seem to work with the dates given in any of other published sources. :p

Temple Of Doom is a lot easier to place. It fits in either piece. You can place is both immediately before or immediately thereafter TotFE Part 1.

>As for ToD in late 1935 argument, we have a lot more to support it. The Journal entries in the Emperor's Tomb go to September 1935, which is when we can assume the actual game story starts. Then we also have the comments you have mentioned.<

Do they really? Ultimate Guide puts it in May, 1935. Good grief.

>So The Lost Journal does in fact create a plausible timeline. The Ultimate Guide's dates really don't seem to jive with... anything really. I'm very much calling into question where they got their data.<

Luceno is usually pretty good; I'm not sure what happened here. The text gives three different dates for the Xolmec's Raiders Marvel comic storyline too.

>In any case Lucas is holding out somewhere. However he was very heavily involved with Walt Disney Imagineering, so I'm inclined to assume the Telegram dates are in fact accurate.
We just need to put together the pieces around it.<

Having Abner Ravenwood sending Indy friendly telegrams through July of 1936 would need some serious retconning, though...

As someone in another thread pointed out, the whole situation is best summed by Sallah: "Bad dates." ;)

TC

I usually like working on timelines but this piece is kind of confusing...

and just to make it more difficult, the Borders exclusive hardback for the three original movie junior novelizations has a prologue for Temple of Doom dated as 7/6/1935. In it Indy gets a telegram from someone claiming to have the Peacock's Eye, willing to offer it as payment for finding a burial urn.

Now, I would assume that Indy headed to China after that but got side tracked with the Emperor's Tomb adventure before finding the urn and moving on to the Temple of Doom. This would put Temple of Doom at teh end of the year but didn't once source have it as happening in December 1935?

The Forbidden Eye could happen between the Temple of Doom prologue and the Emperor's Tomb game. Then Temple of Doom with Indy returning to the Forbidden Eye temple in 1936

like this...

July 1935 - Temple of Doom prologue
July 1935 - Secret of the Stone Tiger
July thru Oct 1935 - First half of Temple of the Forbidden Eye
Nov 1935 - Emperor's Tomb
Dec 1935 - Temple of Doom
June thru July 1936 - Second half of Temple of the Forbidden Eye

Sound reasonable?

You fail to address the bigger issue.

Where does RotlA fit in exactly? :confused:

I've got it as 9/1936 thru 11/1936. That is combining two sources, one that said it started in September (not sure which it was though, the novel maybe?) and a RPG book that had the u-boat scene set in November...

July 1935 - Temple of Doom prologue
July 1935 - Secret of the Stone Tiger
July thru Oct 1935 - First half of Temple of the Forbidden Eye
Nov 1935 - Emperor's Tomb
Dec 1935 - Temple of Doom
June thru July 1936 - Second half of Temple of the Forbidden Eye
Sep thur Nov 1936 - Raiders of the Lost Ark

http://moedred.livejournal.com/11445.html
This tale doesn't seem to have a villain... Belloq never materializes, and everyone else (Indy, Blumburtt, Sallah and Brody) favors sending more tourists through. Maybe Indy and Sallah are making a profit on the side? I would most suspect Blumburtt leaked the temple legend to the press, perhaps a publicity stunt to forestall decolonization.

If we take these an Canon, then Abner is still alive.

I'm still holding on tight to the "fake Abner" possibility. The potential fanwank here is that they're getting going on the search for the Ark and are trying to either keep Jones out of it, or draw him out to see if he knows anything. (I'm saying this without having read the telegrams for years.)

I'm probably just confused, but what do you mean by Temple of Doom "prologue"? The beginning of Temple has to take place after Emperor's Tomb, because the game features Indy meeting Wu Han and at the end, Indy decides to go off searching for Nurhaci. I always envisioned there being a few months between the game and the film. I don't know anything about the dates you're using, but suffice it to say that the people in charge don't necessarily think about these things as closely as die-hard fans do, so I suspect that you're probably going to find chronological contradictions that are, unfortunately, irreconcilable.

For what it's worth, the ToD Sourcebook has the Maharajah and the British trying to keep people away from the Temple of Doom after Mola Ram's body disappears from the river.

Personally with the Abner telegrams, I say they're a ploy by Belloq. Belloq knows of Abner from his friendship with Indy at the Sorbonne but doesn't know they fell out a couple of years later.

Indy, however, knows it is Belloq but is taking advantage of his brains to help him with the Temple of the Fobidden Eye. If that makes sense.