The Dark Knight Rises
 

Granted it's a long ways off, but I figured we should have a thread devoted to the follow up film to The Dark Knight, the untitled Batman 3! Here's a chance for us to discuss all things Batman 3 related: possible casting choices, the plot, the look of the film, the direction, etc...

So to get things going:

• Will Christopher Nolan Return?
  
• Who will the new villains be, and who might possibliy be cast in the roles?
  
• Will it be as dark as TDK, or more along the lines of other third acts in movie trilogies?
  
• Will certain villains and characters make surprise returns or cameos?

I'm guessing it'll be called The Dark Knight Returns and I think WB will pay Nolan to keep him on board.

I think they'll stay dark or even go darker and go with the Riddler (Guy Pearce) and Penguin (Philip Seymore Hoffman) as the villains. Penguin will be the mob boss and Riddler will be more of a shadowy figure like the real Zodiac killer like some have suggested.

If they're smart they'll keep it a 3 films but won't make it a finale like other trilogies. If they keep it serialized like a comic it won't have to have the cliche happy ending.

Oy. The last thing I want to see is a Batman Returns Redux or Batman Forever Again.

That title does sound perfect!

As for Nolan I really hope he returns, it would be foolish otherwise!

I really do like the idea of The Riddler, and Guy Pearce is a good suggestion. I also wouldn't mind seeing Paul Bettany, Jude Law(Think Road to Perdition), or Edward Norton! Also, I'm in complete agreement with the Zodiac angle to The Riddler, something akin to Scorpio in Dirty Harry.

I agree, Philip Seymour Hoffman would make a great Penguin!

As for Catwoman, I could see Angelina Jolie, Rosario Dawson, Shannyn Sossamon, or Rachel Weisz in the role.

For the overall tone, I hope it stays dark, but maybe lightens up a tad along the lines of Batman Begins. No cliffhanger endings or suped up finales, just have a nice shot of Batman overlooking the city and call it a day. Something along the lines of Tim Burton's Batman ending!

Whatever they decide to do, I just hope they keep the integrity of the first two films and don't get too carried away with delivering bigger and better ala Spiderman 3! Keep the villains to 2 max, the look and tone the same, and all should be well

I hear in the 3rd movie they are going to have an army of furry little bears with spears.

I don't want to see a repeat of those two films either, but I'd be shocked if a sequel isn't made! With the amount of money TDK is looking to bring in( Upwards of $400 million domestic, which would put it in the top 5 films of all time), Warner Brothers will most likely want a follow up. Nolan has too much integrity to make a crap film along the lines of Batman Forever, and as for Batman Returns, he might have a darker style but he doesn't go for overly weird like Burton. I'm sure the crime drama feel of the first two would still be in effect, and not a campy goth fest ala Burton, or psychedelic disco explosion like Schumacher!



Batman vs. Ewoks, that would be something else!! LOL

This would be different though no half man half penguin or any of that crap. Nolan would ground it in reality. I was thinking of how to make the Riddler more psycho looking and thought maybe instead of the green jacket with the ????? maybe he'd have tattoos all over with ???? (not too blatent like on the neck or face though).

Not a bad idea! It would be kind of funny if Guy Pearce was cast, considering his look from Memento!

That's kinda where the idea came from.

That's the only way I could figure the Riddler wouldn't look silly. They could eliminate the costume altogether but he need to have something that harkens back to the comic.

Pearce is really sounding more and more plausible, especially considering his and Nolan's past working experience! He definitely likes to take the Scorsese approach with casting actors in multiple films, he's used Bale and Caine three times now.

At one time Carrie-Ann Moss might have made a good Catwoman! She'd of course have to slim down to her Trinity size again!

Catwoman, Penguin, and Riddler are tough sells...its gonna be tough to follow up on Heath Ledger and Aaron Eckhart's work.

I think its likely they'll adapt some of the elements from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns comics...it would follow in logic to a certain degree because much of that series has Batman being viciously tailed by the police. Also, the series starts with Batman coming out of a decade long hiatus to stop a brutal gang that threatens to destroy Gotham. Its loaded with great character moments, and because it deals with an older Batman, it actually offers a satisfying conclusion to his career. It might be interesting to see what sort of direction Nolan and Goyer would take such material.

What I've loved about these two films is how they've managed to interweave the best Batman stories into a cohesive narrative. Begins is very much a combination of Miller's Year One and the fantastic O'Neill/Adams run on the comics from the seventies, and Dark Knight is primarily composed of The Long Halloween and The Killing Joke (with some Dark Knight Returns elements thrown into the mix). If they can keep this franchise afloat for one more movie, I'll be thrilled...but I'm also down with the fact that they've managed to create two masterpieces so far.

I really don't know how you top the Dark Knight, if it is even humanly possible, but there's no reason why they couldn't make another solid installment. My vote goes for the Riddler, for the many reasons already addressed. I'm not sure about Catwoman.

I haven't been all that interested in these Batman movies, but a return of Catwoman would peak my interest. That's if it looks like Catwoman (not Halle's).

Riddle me this, Batman; How do you follow the spectacular success of The Dark Knight with a Rogues Gallery of weak and inferior villains (that all look like clowns) to The Joker?

We need a Catwoman like in The Animated Series. See the pilot, The Cat and The Claw. She'd do quite nicely.

Adrian Barbeau is a little old now.

My interest was peaked with The Joker (my favorite villain) soooooo...

I don't think it can be topped in any real way. TDK is a perfect movie and likely whatever follows it will not reach it's heights. But I think ONE more is good. No more than that though.

I also feel like, Catwoman shouldn't be in it. I'm not really into the idea of Catwoman. I don't know who should be the villains. Riddler is my best guess.

I'm not really for it, but I haven't seen much talk of Robin. Only problem, the huge lame stigma surrounding his character. Maybe if they make just one more, they introduce him later in the film so you know that they do eventually team up, and I'm sure they could make it seem very cool/believable.

Try re-reading my post.


The key modifier was "like."


I didn't think it was that difficult of a concept...

Sarcasm. It's not too difficult.

Nolan has sated, along with Christian Bale, that they do not want to introduce Robin at all.

I did read something about that, but I was just bringing it up on how it might work.

And thank god for that.


Robin is one of the biggest mistakes in all of Batman canon.

I completely agree. Robin is useless and lame. I'm so glad Nolan and gang are smart enough to realize how dumb that is.

It's also dumb to just introduce MORE enemies because it's a sequel. By B&R (yes, sorry I mentioned that one) there was three villains and three super heroes. Alica whatshername playing Bat Girl and showing off her wonderful British accent (she said she was from there but had no accent in the film)... or from Warner's perspective, showing off her Bat Butt.

Thank God!! Robin sucks!!

If they stick to one new villain and bring back Two Face, or introduce two new villains like they've done so far, that would work! Personally I wouldn't mind the return of Two Face, and then for the second baddie The Riddler. The Riddler could work great if they took a darker approach to him, ala Zodiac. Or a Hans Gruber approach, who pretty much was the Riddler but in a Die Hard film.

Catwoman I'm not 100% sold on, but she could be interesting and fill the void as a possible love interest. As for the Penguin, I'm not really a big fan of him!

I still hope to see Hush as the main villain in 3 w/ the Riddler playing Hush against Bruce/Batman like a game.

The end of TDK had Batman as a fugitive. So, for the 3rd film, maybe the villain could be Batman himself. It's could really delve into his psyche. It could be about how much the bat could take since his public hates him. You could throw the Riddler in there, maybe he wants Batman to join him because of his intellectual admiration. It could be a more brooding cerebral thriller. Nolan's direct Memento and Insomnia, so I think he could pull of a good twist with Riddler.

No Robin. Ever. The older, jaded hero hooks up with a wild yet essentially decent young whippersnapper. Crystal Skull, anyone?

Perhaps Bruce Wayne should die in the third...

Nolan also said he wouldn't kill of anyone who didn't actually die in the comics. Which is why two-face is not dead. (Duh? Two-Face, a major villain isn't going to die)... it's also why Joker is still alive. And Scarecrow.

I like the idea though of it being more about Batman in the third. Especially since he seemed to have less attention on him this go-round than the first. It would definitely be interesting to see how he deals with being hunted. Although Gordon said "He can take it." I would imagine that since this film is, essentially, the ESB of the new Batman franchise... the third would be redemptive.

In other words, by the end of the next one he will have won back his public perhaps so the new flicks can end on a nice note. I really don't think we need 4+ Batman movies.

Ironically, with time that attitude will change. I think we all can agree we didn't need an Indy 4 but after years and years EVERYONE, including the filmmakers themselves, went from knowing it wasn't the greatest idea to just doing it. We got it and it didn't add much to the franchise. One of those, one more brush strokes could ruin the painting things. NOOOO. I'm not saying it ruined the IJ franchise. But it was perfect as is, with the original trilogy. Obviously another analogy I could make is the original Batman franchise... with how it went from Burton's Batman (89) to Batman & Robin...

That movie was more like going beyond one more brush stroke ruining the painting to dousing the painting with an entire bucket of paint and then stabbing it repeatedly with a knife.

I like the idea of a twist ending if they use the Riddler. It could be like a punchline to a riddle which would work thematically. I think that a third film would have Batman redeemed and he would have earned the citizens respect again. I can see it ending by having the bat light fixed since Gordon smashed it at the end of TDK. BB had the introduction of the light, in TDK it was smashed, in #3 it'd be put to use again showing batman is here to stay. That would be the simplest way to show he's appreciated by Gotham and to end the trilogy.
I assumed he was dead, but I did think I saw him breathing too.

Perhaps they are doing a "Dark Knight Returns" story for #3 by having Bruce pay for Harvey Dent to get plastic surgery and return to normal, but he actually still is a villain and this makes Batman even more angry and he really decides to cross the line to do what is necessary to help Gotham. If they did this, plus had "Riddler" a serial killer sub-plot (like the Zodiac killer) and "Penguin" (they should never call him this in the film, just use his name Oswald Cobblepot) as the mob boss it could be just as epic as TDK. As long as there's no villain team ups like Spidey 3 it could work to use them all.

They could reveal the Joker's base of operations, still operating... and Harley Quinn (Jake Gyllenhaal from Brokeback Mountain) ;) No one had a problem with the Joker in drag...

Or Jake could play the vengeful Robin Dawes. Makes sense on soooo many levels...*





*Please, God, no

$200 million? Pah!

http://www.accesshollywood.com/artic...n-record-time/

'The latest installment in the Batman franchise, starring Heath Ledger and Christian Bale, took in an estimated $20.9 million on Tuesday, bringing the film’s five-day total to an astounding $203.8 million.

“The Dark Knight” passed the $200 million mark in a record-breaking five days, shattering the previous record of eight days which was held in a three-way tie by “Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chest,” “Spider-Man 2” and “Star Wars: Episode III — Revenge of the Sith.”'

These are some things I want to see or that could happen in a Batman 3:

-Batman on the run from the cops and Gordon being forced to go after him (possibly having secret meetings along the way?)

-have some theme related to Batman as a fugitive

-out of respect for Heath, don't bring back the Joker. Mention him off in such a way that states he's in a highsecurity prison (and for fans, maybe add something like "he's being treated by a physciatrist, ever heard of a girl named Quinn?")

-if Riddler is the villain, have Batman and police forced to team up and combine their detective skills

-if Penguin is the villain, have him be the mob boss w/ a nickname (like Carmine Falcone and "The Roman")

-if Catwoman is the villain, have her deal more w/ Batman's emotions than actual fighting (recovering from Rachel's death and such)

-other lower villains that would be interesting to see: Black Mask, Deadshot, Hush, Bane, Hugo Strange

-have Batman meet w/ his contacts and possible other criminals for help (like Calendar Man in The Long Halloween)

-a return to a reconstructed Wayne Manor

-another return of the Scarecrow?


Things I Don't Wanna See

-Two-Face coming back from the dead (justs seem illogical)

-somone else playing The Joker

A rather interesting discussion of what could happen in the third one, particularly on the villain front:


This comes from here.

I agree with just about everything here except that I would add that I do not want to see Catwoman either, and I think that Two Face could be back if done a certain way.

I really like the idea of Dead Shot. Bane sounds like he could be interesting in Nolan's world.

I also really like the idea of the Penguin not being so themed around Penguins but it being more of a nickname... although I can't see him working so well even as this. Riddler makes the most sense to me.

Catwoman. Again. I just don't want to see Catwoman.

Anyone else playing The Joker would be a joke.

I was hoping for a scene at the end of The Dark Knight where Superman and Wonder Woman show up to recruit Bruce Wayne for the Justice League... ok, maybe not.;)

I have to admit that I have never been a fan of The Riddler. I know I've mentioned this on the The Dark Knight thread, but it's buried so deep in there it'd be hard to find. I do like the tattoo idea and a more Zodiac type of killer, but then again, I feel kind of like that's a repeat of the Joker. I know it's not exactly the same, but Joker left clues as to who was going to die, like with the card and the name badges. Can the Riddler really be written as a completely different character? One that won't inevitably be compared to Ledger's Joker?

Dent was my favorite part of The Dark Knight. I absolutely loved his character, loved his whole story arch. That being said, I don't want to see him again in the third. I feel that his character was perfect as is. His revenge was done. Short of spending an entire movie tormenting Gordon and his family, I don't see what else he could do. And the plastic surgery idea is interesting, but I don't see it working. Gordon had a funeral for the guy! Imagine him coming back looking exactly the same. How do people explain that? Also, after surgery, can he really be Two-Face? I know it was his nickname, but still, it doesn't work when he doesn't have the two faces. Ultimately I think it'll disappoint.

I may be in the minority, but I think Batman needs a love interest. She is as crucial to the plot as a villain in my opinion, because she's something that makes Batman weaker, more vulnerable (as this filmed proved). Obviously I don't think an introduction of some random girl is a good idea. It might be viewed as cheapening the image of Rachel. She's not just a throwaway character. I mean, Batman wanted to give up the suit for her. Dent went crazy after her death. She's important, but we don't need another good girl. A Vicki Vale to make to her first appearance and suddenly take away all the heartache Bruce has felt. I think this film needs a bad girl. I don't know who, but I do think it is necessary. I think Catwoman works best. She's well known, she and Batman have a lot of sexual tension, and there's the added bonus of secret identities, reiterating (or possibly just repeating) the theme that Joker puts out there in The Dark Knight: "You see to them, you're just a freak...like me!" Selina Kyle and Bruce could share some scenes, and if done like the Animated Series, it could work well. But as Attila quoted, could Catwoman/Selina be done any better than she was done in Batman Returns? Is there anywhere Nolan can take her character? But then I'm not sold on any of the other female options either, like Talia or Poison Ivy.

So it seems in this long winded post that I haven't actually said anything other than ask more questions. Oh well.

I fully agree. A love-story arc, if handled maturely, could work wonders for Wayne's character.

The brief scene in which Harvey, hospital-bound, with the coin in his hand, is convulsed in pain while thinking about Rachel was potent stuff. He's as much motivated by love as revenge.

My idea for the use of the Riddler is to take a story element of DARK VICTORY and make the crux of BATMAN 3 a murder mystery:

The Riddler has deduced the truth behind the Dent cover-up, and launches a set of murders using Dent's private case files as a calling cards (with riddles scrawled on them of course). Given the targets, who'll all be crooked cops and mobsters, and the use of Dent's private case files, it'll almost look like Dent has returned from the dead, creating a rather bizarre set of murders which will mystify Batman and the police and hints at Dent's darker actions.

Of course, the Riddler's whole motivation is to toy with Batman, asserting his superior mental status, and eventually reveal the truth about Dent's final hours. And what better way for the Riddler to rattle Batman's cage than by poking at the tragedy and great lie of his Batman career?

David Goyer talks. This is the guy that revealed their plans for Joker being in part 2 and scarring Harvey in part 3 and having them together in part 3. Apparently Jonathan Nolan couldn't wait and crammed all of that into one movie. I'm glad now we can have another (hopefully) great story with new characters. Anywho, here's what he says:

* "I think that’s the scariest thing – to think, could we come up with a third movie that was as good as the first two? Can we top ourselves? Doing it a third time would be a big proposition. We’ve only talked loosely about it, though, Chris and I."

* "I have [a theme and villain]. But I’m not going to tell you. Chris is very particular about that."

* "I do think, though, that if there’s not a third film – these two movies stand on their own. I think it could go either way."

I'm not so pumped for it to be honest. After BB, I was craving info about the next Batman movie. But after TDK? I'm dying to go back to the theater to see it again and again. It is easily my favorite movie ever.

Forget villains. The three best ones (Joker, Two-Face, Ra's al Ghul) have been used and are unlikely to return so I'll trust the Nolans' judgment as to who should be in the next one. I wanna know more about Wayne Manor, the Batcave, and his new ride. The Batpod wasn't as bad as I'd feared, though it doesn't hold a candle to the Tumbler.

Holy hell, you just made the best movie of all time.



US Deputy Marshall Samuel Gerard is back, and has another fugitive to catch. The Batman.

How about a ruthless bounty hunter assigned to track down 'The Batman'? Is there an established villain who could fit the bill?

Bane could be cast easily as a bounty hunter...but I don't really know if Bane is iconic enough to work in these films.

Zack Snyder of 300 is supposedly trying to convince WB to let him adapt Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns into a film that would stand seperate from Nolan's films.

If your not familiar, it involves Bats coming out of retirement, the Joker, and an epic Batman/Superman battle.


Heres my idea for a 3rd Nolan film I came up with for another forum, its just a basic way to adapt Hush.



Batman is looked upon a failure and villain. Gotham Police apoint a special taskforce to stop vigilantes headed by Gordon and Harvey Bullock. To make matters worse, in the wake of the Joker's carnage, a Catburglar has been taking advantage of loose security all over Gotham, robbing museums, jewlery stores, and other High Class citizens. Batman is hot on the trail of the catburglar thanks to mysterious riddles he has been recieving. He is chasing the Catwoman when he falls and fractures his skull.

He somehow awakes on his front steps and Alfred calls Tom Elliot in from Metropolis to perform emergencey surgery. During surgery flashback to Wayne as a child w/ Elliot. Wayne's injurty is blamed on drunk driving and the Wayne Industries board becomes concerned about his erratic behavior. They force him to begin seeing a shrink, Dr. Hugo Strange.

Meanwhile Bruce attends the opera w/ Sylina when he gets a Riddle, Hush appears for the first time, taking the theatre hostage and demanding for Bruce Wayne to show himself. Bruce and Sylina end up sneaking off and coming back as there alteregos and a 3 way fight ensues. Hush escapes and Catwoman bails. Riddler reveals himself, and confronts Hush and tells him he can help him with his Bruce Wayne problem.

Hugo Strange, after a few more sessions w/ Bruce, suspects he is the Batman and begins to dig for evidence. Hugo is working for the board and will do anything to get rid of Wayne, he also hates Batman, bcuz he feels he has a negative effect on the Gotham people's morale. Gordon and Bullock are also closing in on Bats although Gordon does what he can to throw the taskforce off target and protect Batman. Eventually Hugo Strange attacks the catwoman dressed in Batman's suit thinking he will make Batman (who he hates) look even worse, but he is instead defeated and arrested. The taskforce believes they have the real Batman and backs off.

Hush later attacks Batman again by surpsrise thanks to help from the Riddler and hurts him bad before revealing he knows who Batman is. But he then spares Bruce, as if he is toying with him. Bruce tracks down Riddler and finds out Hush is Thomas Elliot. Riddler tells Bats, he has been watching him and knows who he is and he told Hush. He also is the man who saved Bats' life by returning him home after his fall which fractured his skull. Riddler enjoys playing Batman against Hush like a game of chess. Hush is still pissed at Bruce because Bruce's father failed to save Thomas's parents during emergency surgery from a car wreck. He is as disgusted by Wayne's reckless playboy behavior. Riddler also reveals Hush has captured Catwoman and is going to force Bats into a trap.

Batman goes anyway and with Sylina's help fights Hush. Hush gets the better of them and is going to kill Batman when Jim Gordon shows up and shoots Hush, saving Batman. He and Bats have an exchange and Jim hints he knows its Wayne. Batman and Catwoman should then meet up on a rooftop somewhere and they kiss before she takes off into the night and the film ends.

As long as its seperate... maybe. But I really doubt WB could afford having two major Bat projects floating around at the same time. Though I do think a more realistic Nolan approach to TDKR would be a cool potential 4th or 5th Batman movie should Chris and co. desire to make more than three (or two for that matter).

Right now, its looks like we'll be very lucky to get a 3rd. They have only lightly tossed around the idea, and Nolan isn't sure he can top TDK. He said he'd be totally cool with just Begins and TDK standing by themseleves. :eek:

Well, knowing Nolan, I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled somthing crazy and topped TDK. But to be more realistic, most third films never match up fully to their previous installments. But I wouldn't mind if number three was only on par w/ BB.

Hmmm...

http://www.rte.ie/arts/2008/0729/joliea.html

'...Angelina Jolie is said to have enquired about playing the role of Catwoman in a future Batman sequel, according to the actress who originally made the role famous.'

'...Veteran actress Julie Newmar played the feline villain in the 1960s Batman television series and says she would love Jolie to take the role should 'The Dark Knight' director Christopher Nolan decide to use the character in a future sequel.'