That's why Indy grossed 700 mil+ & no film besides TDK's come close, not even Iron Man..... Yeah so STFU. TDK's this decade's Titanic, a movie everyone must see over & over again. The '80s had ET & the '70s had Star Wars.

They really only made this movie because they wanted to have fun again, Spielberg & Ford in praticular. Spielberg hasn't done a fun film since Jurassic Park 2 & Ford hasn't had a hit since Air Force One.

That seems a little short sighted...

I am an articulate and intelligent fellow, but I think TOD is categorically the weakest of all the Indy movies (for all the reasons I’ve stated in numerous other threads). Have I missed the constitutional law that states I must believe TOD to be superior???

IMHO - TOD was clearly an exercise in “lets just crack another one out on the back of the success of Raiders”… it certainly appears that most of the principles involved feel it was the weakest and least fun to make. At least as far as KOTCS is concerned (whether you like it or not), you get the feeling that Spielberg, Lucas and Ford wanted to re-visit an older Indy and re-capture some of the fun of making another movie together (perhaps for the last time).

Clearly the future of action/adventure movies no longer resides with Spielberg and Lucas (that belongs to a generation of younger movie makers), but to not see why some would prefer KOTCS over TOD seems, as I've already mentioned, a little short sighted…

Of course they should have made it: George and Stevie had FUN!!!* Seriously, can't two billionaire filmmakers find something a little more recreational than sodomising Indiana Jones? Can't they go paintballing?






*$700 million can't hurt, either...

Heh - ya left out one other motivation:
Price of Making Fourth Indy Movie: $185 million
Cost of Promoting Fourth Indy Movie: $150 million
Pissing off fans like "The Man": Priceless!!!

In hindsight, now after the dust has settled and the excitement has wore off, yes I think it would have been better if it all ended with Indy and Co. riding off into the sunset! If KOTCS had lived up to the hype, and the promises made by Spielberg, Lucas, Marshall, etc. I might feel different. Instead we got a sequel 19 years too late, whose overall quality stands alongside the likes of National Treasure and The Mummy films! Indy should be the standard bearer, not on par with wannabe versions of itself! It's all pretty sad if you ask me!! Just like before with TPM I convinced myself that it was pretty decent, then after a few months wore off it all became clear!

Yeah, I was duped again by nostalgia and my love for a movie series!

I do have to wonder why you have to make gay jokes. I seem to recall this isn't the first time?

I didn't - unless 'paintballing' is a euphemism for something homosexuals engage in.

How else do 2 guys sodomize another guy?

I didn't say it was fact, I listed TOD because Forbidden Eye did... but I really meant ANY of the original three films. But DID YOU ACTUALLY READ my very very long reasoning as to why I think KOTCS isn't on part with TOD or the others?

Because they are all true facts that make it different from all the previous three. How can you tell TOD was the least fun to make by just watching it? What makes KOTCS a better movie because "behind the scenes" they were having more fun making it? ... I don't care how much fun any of them had making it.... I just care if it's a good movie.

Plus I think anyone here would have to admit the rope bridge scene is better than any scenes in KOTCS. It's the only time Indy really cusses like that! "****." That's just funny. TOD isn't nearly as good as Raiders, true, but come on... CGI ants carrying off a person?

Plus. A bit off topic. Someone mentioned somewhere on the forum, I forget what topic, that they didn't understand why things can't be like in 1989 where Batman and Indy could co-exist or something. Well. That's because both LC and Batman in 89 were damn good films while this summer only Batman was a damn good film and Indy (for most people) was only mediocre after a long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long wait. (1 long for roughly, each 365 days they've had to wait.) Therefore it will receive a bigger backlash for sucking.

Hey, if you like KOTCS, whatever. I don't care. But I can't like it when I can just sit here and easily think of a few lame reasons why it's so different from the others. I'm willing to bet you didn't read any of the many points I made.

You can't erase Kotcs from existence now... it's there.
In a couple of years I will probably enjoy it, with all its flaws, in dvd in a quiet sunday afternoon.

Before Kotcs, TOD was my least favourite, but I agree with No Ticket that the rope bridge scene is more exciting than anything in the new movie.

I still hope an Indy V movie could close the series in a higher note*, and redeem that 'riding into the sunset' scene we have lost now as the last Indy shot.



* But if they decide to make an Indy V, Lucas and Spielberg should call me as a consultant :p

Yes, but how many of these people actually experienced a 19 year wait in real time. Most people on these boards, I seem to recall, mentioned that this was the first time seeing Indy on the big screen. For some of our teenage posters, they obviously did not wait 19 years. However, I see your point to a degree.

As for Batman and Indy coexisting, this is a strictly internet message board problem. If we get away from the internet for a moment, you'll find the general opinion is that the majority of people liked BOTH movies (with TDK having a higher % of course) but they hardly care enough to use one movie to bash the other.

Wow. I hadn't actually thought of that, and now I feel ancient. I'm 27 years old, and feel ancient. Thanks lol! :whip:

I think if I wasn't as big of an Indy fan as I am, KOTCS would have been actually easier for me to appreciate. I noticed things non-Indy fans probably wouldn't notice. Plus I was thinking that for a lot of people it would be their first impression of Indy and it was a little less awesome and I was afraid this would make some people dismiss the Indy franchise as being lame without watching great movies like Raiders.

I wasn't constantly waiting or anything for another. I pretty much never expected another one. But a 19 year gap between when the last came out and now changes EVERYTHING. It would be different if it was a series re-boot. Or if the movie had lived up to the hype for me (and others)...

I really don't care to use TDK to bash KOTCS. It was a better movie and that's all there is to it. People on the internet just get bored and have dorky conversations... everybody likes to do that. I went to see both those films more than once. The difference was, I really was more hyped for TDK and it met and exceeded my expectations. So my "forgiving" attitude for Indy was somewhat erased once I realized a movie really could do that. I was thinking, "I forgot how good movies can really be. I was too forgiving on KOTCS. It could have been so much more."

Well this is just how I saw it. These are my opinions. If someone likes KOTCS a heep of a lot then they are still right. But that doesn't make me wrong or horrible when I say "I don't see how anyone could like KOTCS more than TOD" or whatever I said. I just said the truth, I don't see how they could and gave my reasoning for why. All valid reasons I think.

I never said you were wrong for your opinion at all.




I'm 26..... so near ancient? :dead:

Oh I know, but I was kind of speaking for myself. In case others think I'm being a jerk lately for voicing my opinion of KOTCS. I just wanted to remind them it's just my opinion and I don't think they are stupid or something for liking the movie as much as they do.

You mean, Indiana Jones 4 was made just for money? :eek: Never!

Seriously, all movies are made for money to an extent. Hollywood has always been like that. Now granted, they may have made Raiders (even Temple) simply because there weren’t any movies like it at the time and they wanted to make movies they wanted to see. It seems that Lucas, Ford and even Spielberg were enthusiastic about this movie and wanted to have a good time. It wasn’t made for money: they could all retire right now and have enough to live on the rest of their lives. I think they made it, because as Lucas said, it might be fun, as because of popular demand. Come on, everyone here has to admit we were all interested in the potential of an Indy 4, that’s why we all saw it at least once. And Spielberg kept pointing out in interviews that he made it for the fans because everywhere he went, fans from the news-media, to run-of-the-mill fans, even Spielberg’s own kids, kept asking, “When’s the next Indiana Jones film coming out?” So he gave it a shot. Sounds artistic enough to me, after all, both Rocky Balboa and Rambo worked. But all-in-all, I don’t think Lucas or Spielberg are at all responsible for Indy 4. After all we kept asking for it, so we forced them into making it. And if it helps, I wanted an Indy 4 (and if I had ever met Ford, Lucas and Spielberg prior to Indy 4 I’d had asked them when was it going to come) I’ll gladly take all blame for the awesome ride that is KOTCS! ;)


As do I. That’s probably my favorite scene of the movie! :)




You’re right that there is less action in the middle scenes, but I didn’t mind, I was interested all through-out what was happening.

Also keep in mind this: The only thing I think resembles a flaw in Raiders is the climax. Now the first 3/4ths of the movie are maybe the best 34ths of any film ever made and the most exciting ride ever put on celluloid, the last 4th, not only does Indy do almost nothing, but there aren’t any truly exciting scenes except for the opening of the ark. But despite this action-less climax, Raiders is still a terrific movie


I think you can tell that Indy and Marion always loved each other even during the long departures from each other. Thus the line “They all had the same problem, they weren’t you honey.” It also explains why in Raiders Marion was so quick to be Indy’s partner after the bar got destroyed. They were meant to be. They didn’t need to have elaborate love-scenes because we got a clear picture of the romance in Raiders. Plus, love-scenes wouldn’t be as “badass” as they were 27 years ago. Plus, why make the movie Lord of the Rings just to have love-scenes?


He was the leader, as described in the “Because it told me to” scene. I can see your point about Indy not knowing everything about the MacGuffin, but I think the exact things happen I in TLC. Indy has absolutely no knowledge of the grail, all his information just comes from confirmation of the grail diary or his father. In KOTCS, same thing, except he gets it from his colleague.


You kinda got me there. I never really thought about it. I think it could be because that particular area was designed by the person who managed to steal the skull in the first place?

Either that, or they never assumed someone would manage to steal their skull, thus unexpectedly made it difficult for people trying to return the skull.

You might as well ask why were the warriors were there in the first place!


Well, I thought it was a cool twist. :p


Well, I personally think we got enough of the US govt. chasing Indy in the movie. I started to tire of the concept once they got on the train right after Indy did. I guess it just comes down to personal taste.

But I think the entire theme of Indy being set in a different time with a completely different government was elaborated enough. I didn’t need to see much more of it.


You’re right that it somewhat breaks from the “formula” of the other Jones films. But I didn’t at all mind it. In fact, in sort of was a separate adventure to a small extent, as they weren’t looking for that exact skull, but for a whole separate alien.

You also forgot about the “They were found in Mexico, digging in the dirt, looking for this stuff” line.

And you already mentioned the Ark, the first time they actually brought back a previous MacGuffin.


I thought it was a funny nod. More clever than the explanation to how he got a phobia of snakes in LC.

Oh, I know this is a controversial topic but… WHAT ABOUT THE FRIDGE!?! :D

It was one of the most memorable escapes in history. It was also very educational as I now know what to do when an atomic bomb goes off nears me. As I stated earlier, a very educational movie!

Seriously, I think that’s a very fun death trap. More entertaining than anything in LC I’d argue, and I think in the same league of TOD’s finest scenes.

I can maybe agree there could’ve been more death-traps at the graveyard.


We agree there!


I quite liked the waterfalls! It expanded the Indy universe and was a fun homage to numerous adventure movies. I’m kinda shocked we only now have an Indy film that features waterfalls. Much in the same way I’m shocked we didn’t get a quicksand scene in an Indy film until KOTCS. Who cares is there have been tons of “screaming while falling off a waterfall” scenes in movies. Some of Indy’s finest moments are just homages.

And you really knew the riddle meant dropped down three waterfalls right when they first said it? Find that hard to believe, but whatever.


To an extent, I agree. I once posted an entire thread stating how I was initially disappointed by the ants. Now, they’ve grown on me.

My only problem is that the ants weren’t “hidden” in the same way the snakes, bugs and rats were(but then we did get “hidden” scorpions).

But I do think a lot of thrill comes from the ants. The scenes where the ants eat the commies are some of the most “Indy moments” in the entire movie. Nice homage to B-rated Sci-fi movies of the 50’s, no harm in that imo.

Who cares if it’s not realistic? It wasn’t “realistic” that all of those snakes would still be alive in the Well of Souls with no food, water or even sunlight.

Plus, I LOVE the Ants theme. One of the most memorable ques in the entire soundtrack.


Like what? Aside from piranhas(which would also have to be CGI) I can’t think of any truly worth-wild creatures left. Also, to point out again, all the Indiana Jones made use of the technology available. KOTCS just had more technology options offered.



But they also got so much right! Sure it’s different, but I didn’t want a Raiders Part 3 like LC offered. I think it’s a great tribute to Indiana Jones but still manages to create and worth-wild new adventure.


Well, as one last note, I do admit, you actually have REASONS for not liking this movie much. And I appreciate it the time and effort you put into all of your posts. You’re definitely one of the best members here imo.

I still respectfully disagree completely with your stance on KOTCS though(:p), but you love the original three Indiana Jones, and still like KOTCS to an extent, so cheers!

I did read your posts. Have you not read the numerous posts where I've point for point matched any KOTCS criticisms with TOD criticisms?

There are more shortfalls with TOD (IMHO) than any other Indy movie. There is much evidence, if you bother looking to find it, to suggest TOD was a challenge to make and that it was a more cynical exercise in creating a franchize cash cow.

Also, I think I've mentioned this before... but you seem to have gone from "KOTCS was a bit disappointing" to "KOTCS gets better every time you see it" to “KOTCS sucks", so forgive me if I don't get your opinion.

As much as I like KOTCS... I think you are pushing it there... ;)

Yes. Believe it or not. I am not lying to you I got that from the first moment I heard it. Three times it drops was obvious to me, so I thought the riddle was lame since I got it immediately. I knew going in there was a scene with a waterfall from the trailer.



That's because the snakes could go in and out of the well of souls through the holes in the walls. They could leave if they wanted to or come in if they wanted to. Indy could not. It was more realistic than making CGI snakes all come together and slither down a bad guys throat or carry Indy and Marion off on their backs eh? How would that scene in Raiders have been if they did that? If you think that's a good idea there's no way we could see eye to eye ever on this. lol.





But if they portrayed the piranhas realistically even if they were CGI it wouldn't be a big deal. My biggest complaint is that they used complete fantasy with the ants. I agree it's hard to think of some worthwhile creatures left, but that's no reason to get lazy with the scene and just make up something out of utter fantasy.





Yes. I agree it should be different. I just didn't like the direction they went in is all.





Oh wait! To an extent? ... Well, I like KOTCS to an extent too. I thought you liked it more than that though. But yeah, I will always love the original Indys.

I admit that LC does have Indy following more than leading. I guess I didn't notice that so much before.




It does get better when you see it more than once because you're getting used to all it's flaws and you're not sitting there going "Did he just swing like Tarzan? Oh geez." It was a bit disappointing on my first viewing because I had expected much more... and got stuff like what I just mentioned. And yeah after time to let it settle in my brain my final conclusion is that it's not a very good movie.

What? I can't have a change of heart from time to time? --> My opinion is not fact. <--- Neither is yours. Sometimes TOD is my favorite film (bet that makes you uncomfortable)... sometimes it's Raiders. Depends on my mood and how many times I've seen one or the other lately.

My current opinion of KOTCS is that yes, it's not a very good Indy adventure but it's an OKAY movie. I expected much better from the IJ franchise.

Also, I think I've already given you an answer to why I said what I said back in MAY in another thread... so forgive me if I think you're just being a jerk by mentioning it again to try and discredit what I have to say in this thread.

I really enjoyed the ants scene. It was different than what Indy had done before. Instead of having a "creepy creature" just there for the sake of tradition, they crafted a nice action scene around it. The hand to hand fight (really the first time that Indy had to fight toe to toe with the henchman) and musical score really make it an effective ending to the Jungle Chase (which had a lagged due to Tarzan's involvement).



Yes, it was CGI, but if I am going to see a scene where millions of ants are surrounding Indy, should I expect anything different?

To be fair to the CGI ants that I don't especially mind - it could have been worse - didn't the original script (or one of them) for CS, have a giant snake eat Indy and he had to escape it or something. Not to mention a battle between flying saucers. And an "alien" Hitler.

I refer you to the private message I sent...

I really couldn't care less if TOD is your favourite or not (that is your prerogative). I’d only ask that you show others the same courtesy...

When people make sweeping statements like “How can you like KOTCS when it’s a sh*t movie?… but each to their own - it’s only my opinion”… it’s a bit like saying, “your daughter is ugly, but I guess you have to love her” i.e. it’s condescending, blinkered and it irritates me.

Take a closer look at KOTCS and that opinion will change. KOTCS is, by far, the most flawed of all of the Indy films.

Gunpowder is neither dusty nor metallic... we'll start with THAT one. :)