inspiration for an Indy island
 

I recently watched a documentary about the Haqar Qim Temple on Malta and it reminded me of the island on which the Ark of the Covenant was opened. The rocky, barren terrain of the Maltese Islands are identical to the island that I will hereafter call the Ark Island- simply called a Mediterranean island in the novel. The location of the Maltese Islands are just off the route from Egypt to Europe, just like the Ark Island had been. Belloq seems to have chosen his island specifically because of its Jewish history and the convenience of the remains of a ceremonial stage, not altogether unlike Malta with its own ruins of a lost Jewish settlement. The Ark Island was a jungle in the novel, but Tunisia was a more obvious location for filming. However, I have to wonder if there was also a decision to change the location so that it better resembled the Maltese Islands. Am I way off target here?

It very well could be representative of what we saw in the movie. It's also interesting to think how no part of Island sequence was filmed on an Island! So much of the Island scenes are different than intended to be filmed, or at least from the novel, so I've always imagined it more as a fictional Island.
:whip:

Thanks, HenryJunior. The island sequence was my very first introduction to Raiders. My parents saw Raiders together for their anniversary, so I didn't get to see the movie at the theater. During the Academy Awards, however, I sneaked out of bed just to wait for a clip of Raiders, which, as you know, had several well-deserved nominations and wins. There was a long clip of the island sequence as the german soldiers were being run-through with the brilliant light and I'm quite sure the clip accompanied the Best Picture noms because I can remember being really angry that Chariots of Fire had won. Incidentally, I hadn't seen Chariots either, but judging from the clips I knew Raiders had to be the better film! I was so captivated by the clip that being sleepy for school the next day didn't matter! Soon after, I got to see the movie repeatedly on Satelite TV, which trumped Empire Strikes Back as my favorite film- at least for that year any way.

Wingnut, with all due respect, you are indeed off target because:

1) The Ark Island in the film isn't "identical" to Malta.
2) It is not along the same route from Egypt to Europe.
The jungle island might have been changed because it doesn't really make any sense. Which islands in the Mediterranean are jungle?:confused: None that I know of.

Apparently Stoo has made a personal crusade of finding my comments wherever they may be so he can smear me until I get angry enough to leave this website just because he hates Short Round and I don't. He's so blind with rage over nonsense that he, once again, doesn't give enough attention to my words before he clicks the "Reply" button. I simply posted this thread for a friendly food-for-thought and no one- other than Stoo- can possibly find the slightest hint of contempt or aver in my opening comment. I never said that Malta, itself, was "identical" to the Raiders island, I said that the rocky terrain was identical and I can present photos to prove it. Nor did I suggest that Malta and the Ark Island were "one-in-the-same", I simply suggested it might be an inspiration. I also never said that Malta was on a "direct route" from Egypt to Europe. I said it was "just off the route". Since the novel states the submarine was rerouted, then I thought this might be a reasonable assumption, especially since the Maltese Islands are at the very edge of the Mediterrean near major seaports of Italy. And I did NOT write the novel, so why is Stoo making a stink like he's holding me responsible for the fact that the Ark Island was a jungle island? I never even said it would have been a good idea for a jungle island because I do agree with him on this single point- there are no jungle islands in the Mediterranean, which was my whole reason for this thread in the first place. Stoo has a serious attitude problem and probably should look into therapy.

FIGHT!!

Welcome to the internet.

Woah, Wingnut!:eek:

1) This is only the 3rd thread where I've spoken to you so there is no "personal crusade" to "smear you". I meant to reply to this thread on the very day you created it (before our Short Round debate) but didn't get around to doing so.

2) In no way am I trying to make you quit The Raven! That is a silly notion. I would NEVER wish that upon someone who wants to talk about things related to Indiana Jones.

3) I don't hate Short Round and even made that clear in the other thread.

4) I am being friendly, dude. I wrote, "with all due respect".:cool:
Well, I've been going to the south of Italy & Sicily every summer for over 10 years and have been to Egypt and...MALTA. In a few days, it will be exactly 2 years since my visit to Malta (28-30 May, 2010). I wanted to go to the Hagar Qim temple but my girlfriend grew tired of 'Indiana Jonesing' (as she put it).:down:

From my firsthand experience of seeing Malta's coast and its interior, the terrain is NOT "identical" to the Ark Island. It isn't void of vegetation as we see the island in "Raiders". Malta has dry grass, trees, shrubs and plenty of cactus plants. Also, the Maltese islands are mostly flat with low-lying, rolling hils. By contrast, the Ark Island is depicted with sharp, mountainous terrain. Malta does have an area with high, coastal cliffs but the main part of it's major city, Valetta, has sat on top of them for centuries. The cliffs are heavily fortified and not barren.
:confused: I never mentioned anything about a "direct route". Please, Wingnut, don't create a conflict where there is none!:)

6 months ago, the location of the island was discussed in this thread:
Greeks Find Ark of the Covenant

Within that conversation, I showed that the Ark Island's closest, real-world locale is the Greek island of Anafi, in the Mediterranean/southern part of the Agean Sea and relatively close to the coast of Turkey. Far away from Malta...


How are you getting the impression that I'm holding you responsible for the novel's jungle island?:confused: I didn't realize that offering a theory about the change was equal to "making a stink", etc.

(The attitude & therapy comments can be easily turned around towards you...but I won't do that.:cool:)

Like several other members, I chose to add Stoo to my "ignore list" to avoid any further confrontation. JuniorJones, you're comment and added photo made me laugh hysterically! But, as I can see this thread isn't really going anywhere, can anyone tell me if it's possible for me to delete it?

It was, and is, a solid thread. While Stoo - like all of us, to varying degrees - occasionally presents his views in ways that could be called abrasive, I really can't say that I see that to be the case in this particular thread.

It's not possible for you to delete it. It's possible for us to...but is that really necessary?

I didn't think there was any real substance in this thread aside from giving Stoo an opening to twist and misquote me, but if you see some potential here for intelligent, topical discussion, Attila, then by all means, let's leave it as is. Thanks for the reply.

Quite right, Attila, and it’s clearly obvious who is doing the twisting, misquoting and smearing here.:down:

Foreverwingnut made the rash & hasty decision to put me on his ignore list after only 3 of my replies (1 in this thread + 2 in another), therefore, he can’t see the one above (#7). If he truly wishes to have an “intelligent, topical discussion” about the Ark Island, then he should be encouraged to take my name off of his ignore list and read my other post before making such derogatory remarks & accusations.

Wingnut asked, “Am I way off target here?”, and my brief reply was made “with all due respect”. Not a reason for all the kvetching.

Re. deleting the thread: An open mind would try reading posts instead of burning them.;) Since there is no way for me to communicate with Foreverwingnut, it would be appreciated if someone could quote my post so that he can (hopefully) understand that no harm was ever intended.

Since "top men" aren't available, I'll quote it, then head straight to the bunker!



And the aforementioned post #7:

Well, I would vote for keeping this thread.

If it wouldn't have been for this thread, I would not have stumbled over Greeks Find Ark of the Covenant, the overlaid graphic, and the presumed island location of Anafi, where I now hunger to go to...:cool: It's also next to Santorini :up: , which is on my list for a long time (and my partner's, too, as her favourite yoga teacher is teaching there every year).

I love the curating of The Raven by the moderating team alot (combining threads, which makes searchability and readibility so much better; or have global threads, such as on 'Germany' etc.). It's top-notch work. But just :gun: culling threads upon request I think is a no-go.

And Anafi - aside from working out geographically - also bears geological resemblance to the one in ROTLA.




[here]

I can see a submarine there in this pic; camouflaged as an islet, but as clear as the day... (just kidding, of course)


____
edit: link issue on second picture, added hyperlink

Those second and third pictures don't appear for me, but I quite agree that the first one suggests Anafi is a match we can be happy with.

Terribly sorry, Professor, for not doing my course work properly.

(If it helps, Sir, I have a typical student apology: I am, like, still hung over from that party for that Queen, and even the Prince is now in hospital with a bladder infection)

Below hyperlinks for all pix:

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3 - with the sub :rolleyes:


And just for good measure and for comparison's sake:

Sorry, I'm not ready to open another dialogue with Stoo just yet, but I am impressed with his suggestion of Anafi- it is an excellent choice as an inspiration for the Ark Island. Suggestions are, after all, the whole direction of my thread- to allow Indy fans to present some possible inspirations without getting chastised for them. I still don't know how to upload photos on these threads, but I have some photos of the Maltese Islands on photobucket that show why I was struck by the similarities to the Ark Island. Anafi is, perhaps a better choice because it is a single island, whereas the Malta is an archipelago, but once you see the photos, you'll understand why I took notice. I would love to hear some more possibilities, Indy fans, as I'm sure there are other islands in the Mediteranean that have striking similarities. In the meantime, check out my Malta photos at
http://s1249.photobucket.com/albums/...ese%20Islands/

To post pictures from Photobucket you just need to copy the IMG code and paste it into your post.

Or for any picture right click it with the mouse, select 'Properties' and copy the Address (URL).

Paste that and type [img] in front of it and [/img] at the end of it.

:hat:

Let me see if I can follow Monty's directions...



Look at that! Thanks, Monty! I immediately thought of the hidden Nazi port when I saw this.


The Jewish ruins in the photo above have a similarity to the ritual stage on the Ark Island.


Notice the high bluffs with very little vegitation. The rock layers look a great deal like the canyon walls on the Ark Island.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting the pictures, ForeverWingNut.

What "Jewish ruins" are these, and where are they located? On Malta, or on Gozo?

The ruins that are pictured above are of Haqar Qim on Malta. Of the dozen ruin sites dotting both Malta and Gozo, this one is said to be the best preserved. I'm not sure if all of the ruins were constructed by Jewish settlers, but this one is believed to have been. Obviously there are no signs of modern civilization on the Ark Island and few visible signs of an ancient settlement, but it's the essence of these particular images of the Maltese Islands that reminded me of the climax to Raiders of the Lost Ark. I think we can all agree on at least that much. Check out the image of Maltese island of Filfla below.

A pilot named, Jock Lindsey, once said: "Come on! Show a little backbone, will ya?";) What will it take to soothe your bitter attitude, Wingnut? A personal foot massage?:confused:
That's nice to hear but I posted the Anafi thing 14 days ago. Unfortunately, you decided to shut the door on me. Two days ago, you wanted this thread deleted because you felt that it had no “real substance” and was "going nowhere". Well, it’s rolling now because Archaeos wisely investigated my Anafi proposition. (Something you could have done yourself but chose not to.)

When it comes to nitty-gritty details, I have much to offer. For your own benefit, it would be silly to continue blocking my posts (otherwise you’ll be missing out on some good stuff). I can add more to this topic so I implore you to reconsider your position, Wingnut.

While the two threads began with a different intention, this one is covering the same ground as Greeks Find Ark of the Covenant.

Since the other one had a different purpose, they aren't ripe for merging. So I'll add my post from t'other thread:



And Stoo's replies:




I think the Raiders map was deliberately vague enough to avoiding specifiying the island in the real world.

As was the painting vs Anafi itself:



It's likely to be the island next door to Anafi that only exists in Indyverse. ;)

I've been to that exact location and the "hidden Nazi port" never even crossed my mind. It's not a cavern entrance within the face of a cliff (as seen in "Raiders"). It's an inlet.
Where is the similarity to the Ark's altar stage in this photo?:confused: Hagar Qim was built more than *2000* years before the Phoenicians (Semitic/Jewish people) arrived in Malta. As far as I'm aware, this temple was built by people from the south of Sicily. (On a side note: Agrigento in the south of Sicily is an AWESOME site to visit ancient Greek ruins! Highly recommended!:up:)
Wingnut, that is a coastal cliff. Try to find a canyon within the interior of Malta or Gozo. I bid you good luck!:D
You are cherry-picking certain photos from the internet to suit your own idea. I've been to Malta and can also post photos that show its relatively, FLAT terrain (which contradict the sharp, mountainous Ark Island). Within the Mediterranean, I've also been to the islands of Sicily, Stromboli, Lipari, Vulcano, Panarea and Capri (each of them more than twice). All of them have areas with the same coastal characteristics as the Malta photos you grabbed from the internet.

Dietrich refered to the place as "some obscure island". As already noted this unnamed "Mediterranean Island" was a jungle in the novelization:


With a beach of sand dunes:



It puts me in mind of Crab Key in Dr. No:




I wonder if that was the initial intention? To put Indy into one of Bond's first exotic locations?

Then upon realizing this was not possible in the Mediterranean, the setting was amended to something more appropriate.

While the location in the novel sounds much closer to Africa from Dietrich's words,


the map in the film places it further north.


Ironically, after the Ark was opened the "Nazi paradise" became a more recognizably Mediterranean environment:

When referring to the Nazi base, I was referring to this photo- the one above the earlier caption, not below. First photo, first comment. Why would you assume I was making a cavern reference to a photo that had no cavern? Show us the the cavern from Anafi, Stoo. Where is it? Anafi is certainly similar to the shape of the Ark island, but so is Filfla and I'm sure other members will present some other impressive locations. Where is the other criteria for your argument that Anafi is the only choice? You've presented absolutely nothing but a distant shot of your island. You nitpicked that a rock fascade from Malta isn't a canyon, well, where's your canyon? For that matter, show us a rock fascade from Anafi that bears as much resemblance to the canyon as the photo I presented. I was pointing out geological similarities in the strata. Show us yours. You said Malta has only low, flat terrain? Were you "high" when you visited Malta? We can all see the high bluffs in these photos. Maltese islands do have some lower, flat topography, but I'm only pointing out certain set pieces from Malta for their similarities to the Ark Island. Some of the Ark Island was filmed in Tunisia, which isn't even an island, so why are you nitpicking over an island wall? Also, I never said the large Jewish population that once inhabited Malta had been responsible for building the structures, but it is their civilization and culture that is now imprinted on the ruins and it is their settlement that archeologists are studying- exactly what I've said from the beginning. It was a documentary about the study of the Jewish settlement on Malta that prompted some familiar imagery to the Raiders film.




Where is the staging area on Anafi, Stoo? Show us. Belloq chose his island carefully for its ancient connection to the Hebrew God- a more fitting and safer place to open the Ark than Berlin, so that the Hebrew God might be more forgiving. This is why Belloq also chose to perform the ceremony by Jewish custom. The stage on the Ark Island was not made by the Germans- it was already there. Malta has a rich Jewish history. Where is Anafi's connection to Judaism? My reasoning for this thread was to allow everyone to present some ideas without getting hassled for their finds. You've not only missed the spirit of this thread by attempting another fight, but you've failed to present any real value for your own presentation of Anafi. The climax to Raiders could easily have been filmed in different locations around the Maltese chain of islands without the use of blue screens and matte paintings. Can you say the same for Anafi? Now everyone might understand why I didn't want to be drawn into another debate with you. You don't know how to present your ideals constructively or even fairly. This is typical of most of your comments on other threads.