Uninterested, Uninvolved, or Disenchanted?
 

Has the Indy series run its course for anyone, and in particular, has anyone lost their emotional involvement with the films in general?

For me anyway, I no longer place it above par what used to be, in my opinion, the greatest movies ever made. That I thought Raiders was the best movie ever made makes me now question what I myself used to believe. I guess you could call it fandom shallowness, but when I neglected other films, and just simply became only interested in Indiana Jones, then over time I just got restless; so then I decided to bridge out and discovery something more fiting to my tastes, and in this way I think I could possibly reevaluate and appreciate the Indy series again for what it is, if this works out.

I no longer feel motivated or at the least curious to find out why I feel this way exactly, since its simply a matter of disinterest. And I still watch the films from time to time, just to see if my opinion has changed, but Im still stuck at the same reaction. Unfortunately it hasn't done anything as of yet, but you never know...

Somewhere deep down Im still a fan, although it keeps burying itself further and further and further...

Who knows, perhaps on a subliminal level Im asking for help? Anyone feel uninterested, uninvolved, or disenchanted?

On another note, this has nothing to do with Indy 4 being made or not being made(because Im still going to watch it if it ever reaches us in some form); since I've already become cynical of it on the whole though, I won't throw up my arms in disgust if it never reaches the camera. I'll still watch it though, but I am not exactly looking forward to it as I would have been long ago...

It is comforting, my friend, to see that someone feels the same as I do about the films of the good doctor. But you have my support in this opinion, for I am not dismayed with this. Indeed, my life, and any life, is truly more fulfilling the broader it is, by which, of course, I mean, without a single major focus of interest.

Anyone else with swords and I on this one?

My first response is to ask: in the world of film what else is out there that offers more?

Fortunately for me, I'm still a little fresh because I have had my time away from the films. I doubt that I watched any Indy film between the time shortly after the VHS release to the DVD hitting the shelves last fall. What is that? Ten, twelve years?

In that time I have watched a lot of movies -- and there's a fair number of movies that I like better than 'Raiders' (some more adult and some more youth oriented). But on the bonus DVD, Spielberg or Lucas (I can't remember which one) describes 'Raiders' as the one movie where everything -- the casting, the locations, the stunts, the script -- came out better than it was supposed to. I buy into that conclusion and that's the reason why I'm here. In my opinion, it's almost a perfect movie (plus there's a big nostaligia factor at work because it's the only movie that blew me away as a kid).

However, it's human nature to get bored and to move on -- but I don't see much else out there. . . .and believe me, I'm out looking . . . .so until I find something new, I'll park it right here.

Films aren't meant to be obsessed over....but sometimes it's fun to obsess over a movie.

If you watch these films casually, maybe each one a month...maybe 2 because you're a big fan. When you watch these 5 times every month...of course it will lose the magic.

Exactly, Example: I used to be big into star wars. I watched the films every other week or more. I got burned out on it and now i am at Indy. I have learned to not get way into something and then get burned out on it.

The Law of Diminishing Returns
 

Film is an art form. It is a creative medium that can be speculated on time and time again. The better crafted it is, like paintings and literature, the deeper you can go to the fountain to be replentished.

There are about a dozen threads that some of our more patient and wise members have thrown out there discussing the depths of the films. Bob's thread about Colonialism/Imperialism and ToD. The Apple thread. The (potential) Mason thread. Marcus Brody tie thread. You know the kind, the ones where one aspect of the film is so thoroughly extrapolated and studied, you feel you gained insight into its addition and creation. Anytime you feel you can get into the mind of the character or the characters creator, you feel more educated, more accomplished than before you engaged in the study.

One of my current thoughts is why is Indiana so reluctant? I don't see him making a single definitive choice about anything. Why?

Back to the point. There are far to many members of this community to go very deep into these films. A good thread can die so quickly with the nature of a "hear me" message board. Trying to find that insight (at least here) as well as sharing it with others becomes a challenge that as time goes on becomes less important to some.

Decide what level you want to maintain your interest at and seek ways to accomplish that. If that means staying away for a time and coming back fresh, then that is the key. Just remember that film is an art form you escape into, not an environment you use to as a refuge from something you are escaping from. By doing so, you'll never experience the law of diminishing returns....

Agreed, I don't intend to be forward, but you were one of the first of the disconcenting, and over time I've seemed to have catched your fever, but that isn't a bad thing.;)

I was slightly put off by your new outlook and opinions on the films(and I will admit, the envious side of me wanted some of this difference in vitality). What could be seen as your indifference to the films themselves was strangely attractive to me. For example, where an consenting Indy fan would never normally trend, you would, or if the films themselves were deemed infallible, you would dispute that in a intelligent manner; you seemed to have gone against the grain, that these notions could be brought to the surface, and challenged, but in a polite way of course.

To be more specific, I gave a more careful look into the films of yesteryear to gage what you were actually talking about, and I've seemed to have adopted this outlook too...

And to the rest:

I still enjoy discussing the films, and if someone brings a new point of view to the discussion, then Im there; or if theres new discussions of classic films in the classics forum brought into the fold, I'll contribute. So Im not specifically saying regurgitated discussions are what I am after, because they were done in the past, and they are especially done alot better when they are first presented.

And, Fisk, Im all for fans having fedoras, and discussing their trips and Indy esque events and their Indy esque adventures with the rest of us, although I'll leave the community discussions with others(I find nothing wrong with this, though I still have my preferences). As long as there is a balance, a equilibrium paradise found in between commentary discussions and the 'how you been?' conversations.

Re: The Law of Diminishing Returns
 

Hear, hear, Pale Horse! I agree. Brilliant musings.

The Indiana Jones films will always be very special to me simply because they were burnt into my brain in my childhood making them pretty much part of my DNA.

I have tried in the 2.5 years I have been in this forum to justify my love of Indy, I have never tried to claim that they are the greatest films ever made I have always just enjoyed them as some of the most effortlessly enjoyable movies ever produced.
Perhaps my efforts to analyse have been a little in vain in that sense and may actually impair watching of the movies, I really do ask myself if these films have a great deal of depth... and the attitude of most members of the raven (perhaps not wrongly) who do not seem to want to find depth or engage in detailed discussion about the films (i.e. Not as a moan but as a point of comparision my recent attempt at analysis the why a prequel thread recieved only a handful of replies, ok it may not have been that exciting but at least it was an attempt at examing the nuts and bolts of ToD) really... they simply want to enjoy discussing their favourite movies.

I have remained in the raven for so long largely in search of interesting discussions rather than just as a social forum for gushing over the movies, which I fear it is rapidly becoming, particularly since it restarted there has just been a dearth of interesting threads.... but I digress.

Man...I think all you guy's have lost your marbles. I've been watching them constantly since I was a kid and still get new things out of them, I learn the quotes and watch the artistry of afilm that changed the way movies are made. It fans my passion for history and discovery. Refuel your love for the movies by reading the books! These message boards are another way. So I am hereby calling all those who have strayed from Indy Passion.......RISE UP AS ONE AND WE WILL MAKE THIS MOVIE THE BIGGEST THERE WAS FOR ALL GENERATIONS TO COME!

When I was a kid I watched "Toys" over and over again because of the bright colors

this went on for a year

Then I watched "The Jungle Book" every day over and over because of the songs

Eventually I got sick of both (accept for Toys which went on to be one of my favorite films).

this is just a case of too much of a good thing

I'm a moderator for a The Thing movie website, and we almost ran into a similar problem. Let's face it: you can only talk about a movie (or movies) for so long, you can only dissect, bisect, and examine a movie for so long. Soon, you're rehashing the same tired, boring items that have been talked about in the past. Or people are making up ridiculous posts, trying to spur something along.
Anyway, we created a Mass Media section, where people can post about anything regarding news, movies, life, etc. Also, we created a Video Game section, where one can post about the new games, computers, consoles, etc. This has kept the Thing website alive, and it helps people get a feel for a person really is.
I notice that this site has a Miscellaneous section. I think it's a good idea to talk about things other than Indy. It keeps things fresh.

Personally, I prefer to see people experiencing real excitement,, and writing about it to share it with others. I'm an Indy fan, but not an Indy fanatic.

I'm not Uninterested, Uninvolved, or Disenchanted (yet)
But it's interesting to find an old thread for every thought about Indy's world.
You can see people having almost a common route in time in a forum like this. There is an initial enthusiasm in which you will discuss everything because every topic is fresh and new.
But Indy's world is a limited world, at some point you have discussed everything. The key is finding that we can relate the whole world with these movies... we can discuss about everything in a certain way.


No Ticket was everywhere a month ago ;)
Now his urgencies where probably satiated, and he comes and discuss on precise things. So do I.

Attila on the other hand seems to have made it an habit to come here to look for others opinions and built a constructive debate. He really uses Indy's world to speak about everything. I'm quoting one of his 2004 posts!


Maybe with all the buzz of a new film being made, we have lost a little of the debate of the past years. But this place will remain interesting in the next future, for sure.

Certainly my love for Indy has been challenged by films like LOTR, POTC (IMO) and Terminator, but I think i will make it through alright. ;)

np. Sonata Arctica - Abandoned, Pleased, Brainwashed, Exploited

whoops, wrong thread... ;)

I've certainly not lost interest. I've been anxiously awaiting a fourth Indy film longer than any other movie. I still watch the trilogy on a regular basis, and Raiders of the Lost has consistently been my #1 all-time favorite movie for a very long time. Even with all the great movies I've enjoyed since 1989, if I was going to be banished to a deserted island and could only take one DVD box set, it would be the Indiana Jones one.

As for posting on The Raven, I don't know. I suppose interest in that may eventually drop off for me, but not for lack of interest in the series. A couple years ago, I was a daily poster on the forums at TheForce.net. But after a couple years or so, my posting frequency gradually dropped off because it felt like there was really nothing much else to discuss being so Star Wars-specific. Most movie-specific boards I've left after awhile for the same reason. Not for lack of interest in the films, just because it seems like after awhile there's not a whole lot of stuff left to talk about because so much as been covered already.

I think it's probably a "Familiarity breeding contempt" issue to at least some degree... All newness wears off, and the thing that was once new eventually becomes threadbare with wear and travel.... When it's worn out, a new thing is required to replace it.

Doesn't mean you can't have fond memories of what has passed.... but to try to live in that past would be pretty sad and pathetic. (Not to mention you'd miss all the great stuff happening in the present.)

It's a great 3fer of movies, the Indy stuff.... But are they the BEST MOVIES EVER? How does it matter one way or the other if they are or aren't.... It's a pretty lame thing to get your knickers in a knot over.

Watch 'em for what they are....

Truer words were never spoken here. And to think, this was back in 2004

Who would bother posting here if they were?

...and less than two months later he posted his last and never came back. Not even for Crystal Skull. If only more uninterested, uninvolved and disenchanted would follow his lead!:hat:

Because of the dream of what could be...

Is disenchantment now required for those occupying the position of Lead Moderator?

If so Attila is the only one holding out, or holding on. Is the Professor the last hope? What a cliffhanger, folks.

Is it really the end?

I'm sensing a jaded hue coming from on high. Looking at the past, The Raven's fields didn't appear any greener. The grass may have been newer, but it was the same shade of green.

It could be Whitey is saying nothing is changed, this is how it's always been.

It could be Whitey is saying everything has changed, and it's worse.

But I'd have to agree with Finn that it's about who is still around.

Hey 'Tana, we still have each other.:o

Much as I hate to admit it, and as much as I know it's wrong and shouldn't be the case, shouldn't have any bearing whatsoever...KotCS killed the entire "obsessive" deal for me. I tried for more than a year to deny the existence of that piece of commercial trash and go on enjoying the original trilogy as I had for nearly 20 years, but it just didn't last. I can't watch any of them anymore without knowing how pathetically it all turns out. So yeah, the film franchise lost most of its appeal to me when that was inflicted upon us without remorse. It's like Pandora's box, once opened...

However, I feel I must add that what brought many of us here in the first place is not necessarily what keeps us here. Over the years many of us have replaced our initial Indiana Jones fan-craze with a desire to hang around just to talk shop with like-minded folks who appreciate the action and adventure lifestyle, even if not living vicariously through a set of movies anymore. That alone is reason enough to stick around this place, because the people make it worth it. This appears to be something that some people just don't get. So for those who continue to tell people no longer foaming at the mouth over Indy to leave, and remember I'm saying this with all due respect, go **** yourselves.

For me it was KOTCS that brought me back as a fan... The bad thing about it was having to explain to younger people why I'm a fan of Indy after THAT movie. Hehehe.

Wow, if this is an example of your: BRAVO!

:rolleyes: ...of this there is no doubt. If action and adventure is your common bond, it would lend some creedence to such posts, sure.

But here is where you go off the rails:

Like your myopic comprehension of my position in the "We Raveners Suck" thread, (and everywhere else), it's you who it seems REFUSES to "get it."

But to people who are here solely for the Off Topic thread and those who continue to willfully misconstrue the objections of like minded Indiana Jones fans, and I say this with as little respect as you manage to muster, in the words of Brendan Behan:

"...a soldiers farewell to ya..."

Yep. That's what makes the Raven, the raven.

...and Stewie, and Junior...:D

Some of the few keeping this place Indiana Jonesy

It's purely Platonic, but yes, The Raven is a viable community. And what would a community be without some difference of opinion, or moderators for that matter?

I respect the opinions of a lot of the members here, so I'm not against drifting off into off-topic areas to hear their views. We can't live by bread and Indy alone, but when all is said and done, the main interest here will always be Indy.

KOTCS doesn't make me disenchanted about Indy. Only disenchanted about his likely future.


Uncle Stewie and cousin Junior, we couldn't forget them!

I guess I'll be the drunk in-law that stops by unannounced from time-to-time.

Unabashed and ready to play a game no doubt:hat:

I'm really not digging the cynicism here. :down:

I honestly don't see any real lack of Indiana Jones discussion and an overdose of non-Indiana Jones discussion on TheRaven.net, but even if this were true, I think the real problem is due to the fact that Indiana Jones is a rather specific subject. If you look at the most popular forums, they're based on very broad subjects(movies, sports politics etc.)

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, whether you love it or not, you have to admit was the best thing to happen to the forum. For the past three years it has brought some of the most in-depth and fascinating discussion these forums have ever seen(it also brought some of the more tiring and controversial discussions but that is another story) mostly because Indiana Jones was constantly being talked about and reported in the media and it also brought more discussion with toys, video-games, books, merchandise, even The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles were brought on DVD to help promote Kingdom, so that show got most discussion from people who hadn't seen it in years. Even the original trilogy got discussed more.

Three years later, Indiana Jones isn't discussed much in the media. There have been video-games and comics but not as much. Hasbro stop making toys because there wasn't many buyers. I think that is the biggest problem of the franchise. Unlike Lucas' other franchise, Star Wars, this just doesn't have much of a life through toys, novels, games and animated television shows. Mostly because this is a more mature franchise as it follows around one character, while Star Wars takes place in an entire universe and thus is a far broader subject. It also doesn't quite help that once you've shared your views on the four movies, there isn't all that much left to discuss for most.

This forum might not be quite what it used to, but then what is? Times change people change. There will be a lot to talk about when the original trilogy comes to Blu-Ray(which many are suspecting next year). And who knows, by then, Indiana Jones 5 might be in production which will bring a ton of news and activity to this site, but until then I think we should except that this forum's discussion won't be as popular as others. And the next time you think more discussion on Indiana Jones should be had, be thankful this isn't say a Ghostbusters forum, or a Terminator forum or a Back to the Future forum. ;)

Oh, come on Rocks! I don't wanna be one of the weeds in a well trimmed lawn. I
ay be the smelly dog turd at times, but never the crab grass.

Maybe you're the dandelion: Mama had a baby and her head popped off!

It was bitten off by the dent-de-lion.

Would we really put our drunk in-law in such toothsome company as great uncle Sharkey? :eek:

As Eeyore said, "Weeds are flowers too, once you get to know them." (A.A. Milne). You may not want to water them too often.

I'll make your wish come true. Once you blow me! :o

I kid! I kid!

Sounds like you're more of a candle...:eek:

Just a lot of fluff if you ask me. ;)

A little puff, and the flame is out!

In this case is easy to see, I'm uninterested but not entirely uninvolved, and someone else is going away disenchanted...

As Rocket stated in another thread, it isn't the lack of Indy discussion that presents the problem, it's the overwhelming Off-Topic subjects that some people seem so keen on.
Right. Who are these MOST people? "My opinion is ______________. Now that's out of the way, let's talk about video games & upcoming movie releases!":rolleyes:
A lot to talk about? Ya think? "I can see the detail on the buttons of Indy's tuxedo in ToD. Now that's out of the way, let's talk about video games & upcoming movie releases!":rolleyes:
This is an odd thing to say. Be thankful for what? If this place was a "Ghostbusters", "Terminator" or "Back to the Future" forum then I would have been hanging around in the wrong place for 6 years!:eek:

However, it must be said that, at one point, The Raven was hard to distinguish from a Batman forum! (More recently, a general, all-encomposing super-hero forum).:sick:
HovitosKing, I'm glad I'm not you. "Raiders" & "Doom" rock anyway, anywhow and anywhere...

The Pro Off Topic/Anti Indy discussion backlash has begun!:rolleyes:

Now that you mention it, for all you "videophiles" and Blu-Ray mavens, what exactly IS that State of New Jesey pin on Mutt's jacket?

Why don't you use all that overpriced, inferior resolution to film equipment to benefit the boards?

That's a brilliant suggestion! Are there things we haven't noticed or haven't been able to decipher due to our hitherto inferior copies of the films?

...cause there is no egg...no matter what format you use.

Might be a thing or two worth hatching, even if they're mostly just oddities and trivia of one kind or another.

Absolutely. No stone should be be left unturned at the Raven. We're an equal opportunity offender. :p

I've always thought so. Though some of us (and of the collected works?) more than others.

Well, the other pins are from the AMA, National Honor Society and the Democratic Party...but there is one that hasn't been pegged yet.

I've looked through the first page of the "Open Discussion" Forum, and I could only see 5 threads dedicated to games(maybe 6). There's plenty of other threads dedicated to music, books and other stuff. Do you really think a thread about bacon is a much better subject for discussion?

The thing is, we have a whole board dedicated to "Indy Video Games" so the world of Indiana Jones does connect to video-games. So naturally those who have video-game consoles to play Indiana Jones games will want to discuss some other games as well.

Video games aren't your thing? That's cool. We all have our interests and disinterests. But nobody is forcing you to discuss these topics. You can always ignore them.

Glancing through the Films section, I see many threads ranging from blockbusters like Pirates 4 and Captain America to small independent films like Tree of Life and Midnight in Paris. I even see discussion on westerns and Stanley Kubrick films. We're hardly limited to one subject or type of films.

I even have seen that you posted enjoying Super 8 and seem to be interested in seeing Rise of the Planet of the Apes and Cowboys and Aliens. Are these irrelevant threads or are they good because they meet up to your standards? I also see you've been on these forums for a while, yet you didn't always seem upset by these discussions, which has seemed to be a habit of yours for the past year or two. Could it be your problem is the type of films being discussed rather than films in general being discussed?


I remember when Kingdom came on Blu-Ray/DVD, there were posts dedicated to each chapter scene of the movie, from posting captions to discussed each scene in detail and whether it was good/bad, worked with the rest of the movie etc. I can see many threads dedicating to posting captions of the trilogy in high-definition. And of course, there'll be more to discuss in terms of bonus features, covers, commercials and possible Indiana Jones material released to promote the Blu-Rays.


I named those three film franchises because those were film series at the same times Indiana Jones was yet don't get near as much discussion today as Indiana Jones does. The only other film series I can think of that get more discussion than Indiana Jones is Star Wars. Any other franchise that gets discussed as much as Indy(if not more so) are only so because they're recent so they are fresh off of younger people's minds.

Be thankful there's as much discussion for Indiana Jones as there is and unlike fans of other franchises. I mean there is still a lot of discussion on Indy that fans of other franchises don't really have, and there's far more chance of an Indiana Jones 5 than there is of a Ghostbusters 3 which keeps being rumored of. That's all I'm saying.

I really just don't see where your coming from Stoo. If you were a moderator I would understand your constant rants were coming from, but until Pale Horse started bumping up ancient threads complaining how the forums weren't up to "the good ole' days" I've not seen one moderator here who has complained how subjects here are discussed. Since your not, I think its a little disrespectful to the mods who work hard on the forums just for us. Maybe you need to take a break from the internet and realize there's more to life than these here forums. Then you'll come back and be thankful TheRave.net even exists.

I'm trying to figure out why certain members have been going around crying about the good old days and why certain members have no respect for the other people at the Raven. Why all the negativity. Forbidden is right if something someone posted doesn't interest you, ignore it. If you have nothing but unpleasantness to add that is not relevant to the conversation. Shut up already. Also when the folks complaining stop having conversations about Telletubbies http://raven.theraider.net/showthrea...ewpost&t=21455 they will have a little more room to talk about others. I know the Telletubbies thing is sarcasm but still....

Like Forbidden said

"I even have seen that you posted enjoying Super 8 and seem to be interested in seeing Rise of the Planet of the Apes and Cowboys and Aliens. Are these irrelevant threads or are they good because they meet up to your standards? I also see you've been on these forums for a while, yet you didn't always seem upset by these discussions, which has seemed to be a habit of yours for the past year or two. Could it be your problem is the type of films being discussed rather than films in general being discussed?"

And it's not just Stoo. You all go on about your interest Indy related and not, but when someone has something to say you don't care about you lash out like children. I have gotten into some stupid and heated arguments over peoples general unfriendliness and am disgusted by the behavior here (mine as well a time or two). Why have open forums if we are not supposed to talk about other stuff? Where do we draw the line? I feel like every time I post I get talk down to by someone so should I bother? (Rhetorical but I'm sure I'll hear some sh*tty response from someone, cuz that's The Raven)

Here here. And you're right, it's not just Stoo. Although I think he may be their chosen leader...