A Guide to Gear and Props. What to buy?

penman hats

New member
I'm sorry my friend but you are wrong. The hat from Disney is not even close and I will prove it to you right here. the Adventurebilt guys found the original ribbon from the first three films and used it in the last film ( Indy 4). I use that same ribbon. There are only three people in the world who has access to it. Myself , Steve and Marc. I had it checked out by two ribbon makers here in the US and they said the same thing. I had them compare it to vintage ribbon. It is spun the same as vintage ribbon, it is pure rayon and it has 20% less content. Just like vintage ribbon I sent them. They both said they haven't seen ribbon made like this in over 40 years. The DP has a modern blend ribbon on it.

I'm sorry but you don't have a keen eye. That's all. It not a attack on you and please don't take it as such.







I myself have never heard of DL having a screen used hat with her after the movie was made.

I do agree with you that DL should not be dismissed like she has been. I have yet to see anyone show proof that she was not involved. I give her the benefit
of the doubt until someone shows me proof she wasn't involved. there are to many things in her interview that I key in on that most would not pick up. Also, if she did such a bad job, why would they keep putting her on the box sets??? That doesn't make sense that they would if they has I'll will of her.

Maybe she brought just a hat to show off but not "the hat" I have never heard her make a statement that she has one of the movie hats. Until I see proof of that I find it hard to believe that she had one to show you. It's not an item she would be bringing around showing off.

I think you were mistaken my friend about what you saw.

My friend please post a pick of a Dp and a screen grab of a Raiders hat After post those two shots you can't tell the difference I will point it out so you can see it.
And gentlemen, this is no reason to attack each other.
 
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Matt deMille

New member
I would like the state the following on behalf of Deborah:

Accusations being made against her online and in forums (not necessarily this one) are speculation at best. Hollywood is a very strange world and what it *looks* like to outsiders is usually very far from what really happened behind-the-scenes. Outsiders like to read this story or buy into that rumor and believe they know as much as if they were there on set, but it's not that simple. Even if Deborah did have problems on set, that doesn't mean Spielberg or Lucas hated her for it, or fired her, or anything else. Lots of people have problems. After all, when Ford was injured during Temple of Doom, they considered shutting the whole thing down for Harrison's benefit. And they weren't angry with him. Yes, there's millions and millions of dollars on the line, but moviemakers, especially guys like Spielberg and Lucas, are usually very human and understanding. So, Deborah had a wedding. I think they'd give her the benefit of the doubt for that. Especially since Raiders was a "last-minute" type of project and a lot of people were pulled in with pending schedules or prior commitments (even Ford himself was).

Anyway, it's all speculation. In the end, she has the credit, and in Hollywood, credits *do* matter. There's so many stories from a set (which get twisted in the media machine), so many things that can happen, in the end, when a movie is all over and everyone is sorting the wounded and dead, those who are credited are those who did their job to satisfaction.

If someone is blacklisted in Hollywood, she would not have been given so much screen time on the DVD extras, and quite possibly her credit wouldn't have been there on the movie at all. Moreover, nobody else is listed. If someone is booted from a project, someone has to come in to take their place, hence an additional name would be credited with costume design. If people are saying Spielberg just did the costuming himself, they are probably just buying into tall tales from the web, and don't really know. On a set, a director is too damn busy to take on other jobs like that. And he wouldn't need to, anyway. If someone was given the boot, the producers would just get Spielberg a replacement and they'd move on. More likely, Spielberg just did a tweak (a scratch on the jacket here, a dent in the hat there) for a shot he wanted, and the story has since been blown out of proportion. Maybe Deborah was in the costume trailer working on somebody else, and Spielberg just wanted extra dust on Indy. That sort of thing happens all the time.

Now, the reason Deborah went on to do Landis-only movies post-Raiders is that she married him. That's not uncommon in Hollywood. Not just with husband-wife teams, but also directors and producers tend to keep their same core-crew from film-to-film. Again, the outside world sees this all wrong but likes to fancy themselves as "experts". They usually see such enduring teams as nepotism or even desperation. It's not. Making movies can be like riding a roller-coaster. There's so little time. Working 12-hour days 6-days-a-week is common because you're that crunched. Hence, directors and producers tend to just stick with the crew they know, for two reasons: One, they don't need to waste time selecting new crew. Two, and more importantly, they know who works and have a well-oiled machine. Bottom line, Deborah worked with Landis because they were a husband-and-wife team, not because she was blacklisted.

Now if Deborah was indeed blacklisted, I can only venture to guess it was because of the Twilight Zone accident, which did indeed cause a rift between Spielberg and Landis (and could have been bad for Deborah by proxy). However, that was well after Raiders, so that would not have impacted Deborah's standing in regards to that film, or her being able to speak with authority about it, at all. Maybe that prevented her from working on Temple of Doom, but it doesn't change the fact that she was there for Raiders, has the credit, and has the right to speak about it.

As for the hat, I've never claimed it was a perfect recreation. I simply said it works much better than one would expect from a park buy. I myself didn't think it worked until I tried it. More often than not, costuming is not a matter of a perfect recreation, but the SUGGESTION of what people's expectations are. My satchel-bag for Indy is flat-out wrong (I use a U.S.M.C. bag from the Korean War) and my leather jacket is a neutral brown rather than the near-black that is Indy's, but guess what? When I go to a gathering of Indy costumers, I'm the one getting the most photos, compliments, etc. Mine has more the suggestion of accuracy (probably helps that my jacket is distressed rather than shiny-new). In other words, it works. Costuming is funny that way. You can be way off but work better than the genuine article if it matches sensibilities. So, for the hat, all I've ever said is that it works better--much better--than one would expect from a theme park purchase.

As for authenticity, here's my story: During my time at AFI (I have indeed graduated), Deborah made several appearances to lecture about costuming. She brought with her Indy's hat. During intermission, when most of the students went out for a smoke break, I spoke to her about it. She said it was not THE hat because there is no *one* hat, but a dozen or so, but this was indeed one of them, that it did see screen time in Raiders. She did not specify if it was a hero-hat or stuntman-hat, but I imagine they're all very similar (a little sarcasm there). And me being me, I would wear my Indy T-shirt and hat to school often, so I had them on hand and could compare them. It was amazing how close they really were. I was as surprised as anyone. I thought for sure I'd hold mine up and it'd look like crap. That just wasn't the case. Also, I did ask her about the Disneyland hats. She said she had approval on them and that they were very close in design. Now, granted, she did not specify if she had some sort of contractual quality-control approval, or if she simply went to the park, saw them herself, and thought they were good. But either way, being one who worked so closely with "that damn hat" (as she said it was called at times) I trusted her opinion.

As for the whip, one of my professors during my second year at AFI was Lauren Polizzi, who was the Art Director for KOTCS's reel 1 (she designed Area 51 and Doomtown). Herself a fan, she told me she had the on-set whipmaster tell her where to get the whips they were using, and even trained her a little (she has since demonstrated her moves and wow--she's good!) So the link I passed on here is the one recommended by the whipmaster from Crystal Skull. Take it for what it's worth.

For Penman, don't worry. I don't take anything you said as insulting. As I said, I think it's great you want to go that extra mile and make cool Indy stuff (heck, I may have to buy one myself someday when I can afford it). Differences of opinion and Hollywood lore is fun to discuss, too. I'm sure you know better than I just how easily there can be a dozen different versions of the same event from a set, so it's also very interesting to compare notes. Some posters and I just have a history on this site of being at each others' throats, and I simply didn't want to let professionals I respect and learn from to be flamed. Please don't think my frustration with one poster in any way carries over to another.
 
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JackBurton

Active member
Matt deMille said:
I didn't read through all the post pages here, so if what I offer has already been brought up, I apologize.

If you want a real Indy whip, go to
http://www.westernstageprops.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=WSP&Category_Code=IJC

Vouching for the authenticity and accuracy, here's my tale: At AFI, one of my mentors was the art director for "Crystal Skulls". She too is an Indy fan, and on set, she took lessons from the whipmaster. In class, she always brought her whip with her (not kidding). Of course I had to geek out and ask her all about it. The website above is the one she recommended, it's the type she owns, and it's the type the whipmaster used for the film. I know there are tales of individual suppliers for the films, and I don't know how they fit in, but this comes straight from the set. Take it for what you will. Of course, these whips are also in the $500 range, but they're 500 new, not 1000 new and 500 used.

Why didn't you spend a few dollars more and get the real thing? Terry Jacka is offering his 8ft KotCS Whip for 600 Australian $. In this case you didn't get a Indy Style Whip, you get THE Indy 4 Whip.

In my personal opinion I would never order a whip through a reseller. There are alot of great whipmakers out there which do incredible work. For example Tony Layzell (UK), Graeme Roberts (UK) or Victor SanSoucie (USA). They offer great quality for very good prices. Whips are handmade products, so it can't be wrong to be in contact with the maker.

Matt deMille said:
I compared it to my $45 Disneyland version (which I always wore to campus), and aside of the Indy-logo on the hatband, the Disneyland off-the-shelf hat is virtually identical. I found it hard to believe that a tourist-thing would be so well done, but it was.

As for the hat, I've never claimed it was a perfect recreation

Sorry, but it sounded alot like you claimed it.
 

Matt deMille

New member
Well, if I made it sound too good, I 'pologize. The Disney hat was/is much closer than I'd give a Mouse House tourist-sell credit for. Sure, it's not identical, but it's a lot closer than I think people would expect. Certainly there are a lot of subtleties at work. It is, in the end, a brown hat, so the differences are going to be in the minute details, and even then, it still holds up pretty well. Most Indy hats I'd seen prior were bad (shiny, disproportional, etc.) I'm just sayin' for $45 bucks it's really, really good. Not everyone can spend bucko-bucks on a costume.

As for the whip, well, $400 to $600 isn't that much more, really. Not for me, anyway. But like I said, I was just offering an option that I think is quality. Certainly not the *only* option. I thank you for pointing out to me the better whip. Now, which to buy . . . hmmmm . . .
 
Matt deMille said:
Well, if I made it sound too good, I 'pologize. The Disney hat was/is much closer than I'd give a Mouse House tourist-sell credit for. Sure, it's not identical, but it's a lot closer than I think people would expect. Certainly there are a lot of subtleties at work. It is, in the end, a brown hat, so the differences are going to be in the minute details, and even then, it still holds up pretty well. Most Indy hats I'd seen prior were bad (shiny, disproportional, etc.) I'm just sayin' for $45 bucks it's really, really good. Not everyone can spend bucko-bucks on a costume.


brown%20lab%20hat.jpg



The differences between this hat and the film-worn hat are minute. It is, afterall, a brown hat.
 
The_Raiders said:
Really, RA? I thought that might have been a screen grab.


As I said, the differences are minute.

I've heard tell that Indiana Jones actually wore a leather cowboy hat; there may be some truth to that as well.
 

Indy's brother

New member
Deckard said:
Now that you have your Diary, You will no doubt want the Cup itself. Hitler can have the grail but he can't take it with him, you can. Again we turn to ebay. Seeing a pattern here yet? Several grails are readily available each week with nicer quality ones showing up a bit less often.

My main sugestion would be Geneva Roth:
41_1.jpg


This grail is hand thrown ceramic and has actual gold leaf in the basin. Its got a nice look and doesn't suffer from a thick neck or wide basin. For the price of just over $100 its a terrific replica. It is most like the grail that lays on it's side twoard the end, when Elsa knocks it into the chasm. You can tell this because of the coloring and the lip.

Also this grail shows up often lately:
18be_12.jpg


This one is again hand made for each customer only this one is actually made of wood. It too has an accurate shape, but no gold leaf. The outside coloring of the grail is also a little more accurate here. This is more like the grail you see in the Knight's shrine, before Indy actually picks it up.

Reelart's are again, very inaccurate. I've actually heard people say they just threw them in the trash.



Hopefully this short guide will answer some of your questions about what to buy. Please contribute reviews and photos of your own so we can have a definitive what's what of Indy gear.

I know this is a two-year-old post Deckard, but do you have any idea how to track down the second grail you listed here? I can't find it anywhere!
 

IndyJoey

Member
Which adventurebilt is better? and jacket

So, you said that the normal adventurebilt can take a beating, and stay in good condition, does the deluxe do this just as well, and where can i find a cowhide indy jacket, ive been saving up for a wested, but i dont want it to tear because its a softer leather, and what about goatskin, how tough are those?
 

The_Raiders

Well-known member
IndyJoey said:
So, you said that the normal adventurebilt can take a beating, and stay in good condition, does the deluxe do this just as well, and where can i find a cowhide indy jacket, ive been saving up for a wested, but i dont want it to tear because its a softer leather, and what about goatskin, how tough are those?


I'd check these guy's jacket out. I've bought pants from them before and did not regret it. http://www.makeyourownjeans.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=180&products_id=1660
 

Djd1

New member
Don't know if you guys have seen the new Indy jacket from Bill Kelso?

Gorgeous

http://www.billkelsomfg.com/site/#!relichunter
 

micsteam

New member
The original Raiders jackets, the ones used for filming key scenes, were made from lambskin (expensive and maybe not as durable as you want). Wested makes (whom made the originals, I would check them first, cowhide is probably your best bet for price and durability and price) Lambskin and cowhide (skin ??). As far as Adventurebilt hats, I have a a Steve Delk Raiders replica and it's FANTASTIC !! I wear it as much as possible, it takes a beating, I get dust on it, bash it, everything GREAT HAT !!! My only knock against it is the felt is not as thin as some of the original Raiders hats from the movie and there's no way to replicate , say, the hat from the streets of Cairo without a very thin felt. The felt used in making the hats in Raiders has been discountinued and hasn't been available from Herbert Johnson since before TOD. I paid $360 plus shipping but that was shortly before KOTCS came out so I think he's getting more per hat order and I hear he's retiring. Hope this helps
 

DOOMSTOWNFRIDGE

New member
Noble Collection Spalko/Mutt williams sword

has anyone got any idea if there is still a place to buy the replica of the Spalko/Mutt Williams rapier,and have any of the members here have pictures/review of it?
 

Goodeknight

New member
DOOMSTOWNFRIDGE said:
has anyone got any idea if there is still a place to buy the replica of the Spalko/Mutt Williams rapier,and have any of the members here have pictures/review of it?

eBay. Cheap sword at a not so cheap price. Wall hanger. Not a functional sword. Nice and shiny look-a-like, but that's it.
 

InexorableTash

Active member
My shelf needs something new and shiny on it.

Any recommendations (for or against) Staff of Ra Headpiece makers?

(EDIT: Specifically, recent recommendations - there's quite a bit of turn-over in the community and 2-3 year old recs aren't that useful.)
 
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mini-inferno

New member
Indy trousers

Hi Indyheads,
if anybody is interested, Asda are currently stocking a style of men's cotton trousers which look almost exactly like the ones Indy wears. They have the button flies and, most importantly, the scalloped style flaps on both back pockets. Asda are selling two colours: sand yellow and an odd wine colour. I bought a pair in sand yellow and plan to dye them into a taupe colour, but for £12 they're great value. I mught go and get another pair.
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
mini-inferno said:
Hi Indyheads,
if anybody is interested, Asda are currently stocking a style of men's cotton trousers which look almost exactly like the ones Indy wears. They have the button flies and, most importantly, the scalloped style flaps on both back pockets. Asda are selling two colours: sand yellow and an odd wine colour. I bought a pair in sand yellow and plan to dye them into a taupe colour, but for £12 they're great value. I mught go and get another pair.

I had a look at the catalogue. They are nice looking trousers, especially for the price, but I don't think they are close enough to those worn by Indy. They are fairly slim fit, whereas Indy's are somewhat baggy and well pleated. I bought a couple of pairs from Wested and they are comfy and look great, but of course more expensive.
 

DarthWilliams

New member
Wow, this thread is super helpful - thanks!

I'm thinking of doing Indy for Halloween this year and was looking for some online resources to put the costume together. Looks like everything I need is right here.
 
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