Indiana Jones films: racist?

Are the Indiana Jones Films Racist?

  • No

    Votes: 61 79.2%
  • Yes - all of them

    Votes: 4 5.2%
  • Raiders of the Lost Ark

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Temple of Doom

    Votes: 9 11.7%
  • Last Crusade

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • Total voters
    77
rac·ism
/ˈrāˌsizəm/Noun

1.The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races
2.Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

I don't see it. Where is the racism in any of the Indiana Jones films?
 

Goodeknight

New member
Racist? Absolutely not.

Orientalist or imperialist? Perhaps.

But Indy shows a lot of respect to the poor people of a remote village in India. He studies (and is presumably fascinated by) other cultures both past and present. Not a racist at all.

Even as a kid, he seemed to see everyone as equal regardless of race or social status -- from a Masai kid in Kenya to Krishnamurti.
 

The Drifter

New member
Who claimed he was racist? Is there really a need for this poll?
Edit: On second thought, I think that I do remember some users claiming that the dinner scene at Pankot was somewhat in bad taste, but I really don't concur.
 
The Drifter said:
Did my question offend you?
Asking if there is any need for the poll which you misread wasn't offensive as much as it was annoying. So I asked you why and to reconsider it.

You still haven't answered why you questioned the need for the poll, and I would like an answer.

But I'm looking forward moreso to goodknight's "Orientalist or imperialist" comment...
 

Goodeknight

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Could you elaborate?

Well, it has been argued that to study another culture, the observer must see himself as somewhat above the culture in question. Someone from a more developed country studying someone from a less developed one.

Let me amend what I said, though, and scratch out "Imperialist." Indy is quite the opposite there. Going back to Kenya again, he did his best to learn his friend's language and customs. Tried to teach a few kids baseball later on, but that's another story. Imperialists really subjugate the Other, similar to the way colonialists try to force attitudes customs and beliefs on others. But Indy doesn't do either. He tries to adapt and become a part of the Other culture, if anything, in an attempt to understand it and work within it.

I say "Orientalist" in the way Edward Said used the term -- meaning the patronizing West seeing the East as somewhat inferior or less. Still not racism, though.

For evidence of this, I'd cite the humorous shot of the Egyptian worker plastered against the windshield during the big truck chase. Indy doesn't give him a second thought, like a bird just flew into the windshield. No biggie. And he's more than willing to grab the Chacapoyan fertility idol to stick it in a museum. Maybe he's keeping it safe from Belloq, but he certainly doesn't intend on giving it back to the locals. And he wrecks a lot of villages during his adventures. Not the most considerate visitor to foreign lands. And newspapers did report he was threatened with having his ______ cut off if he ever went back to one historic spot.
 

The Drifter

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Asking if there is any need for the poll which you misread wasn't offensive as much as it was annoying. So I asked you why and to reconsider it.

I am so sorry, sir. Please send me to bed without any supper for annoying you.

Rocko said:
You still haven't answered why you questioned the need for the poll, and I would like an answer.

Since when did the rule that says we must obey the great Rocko take effect? But, I will humor you. I asked because frankly this poll seems pointless to me. Of all the users that I have seen post on this board over the years, only a very, scant few even implied that the films were racist in any way. You claim you don't see any racism, maybe because there isn't any and no active user believes that there is? So, I honestly ask you, what's the point?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Indy is shown to be friends with people of different races - Sallah, Katanga, Shorty, Wu Han, and so on.

No indication that he's racist. Rather, he is a particularly enlightened individual in that regards for the 1930s. For example, in Shanghai in that period, the Chinese were regarded by some westerners as being of lower status than negroes. In fact, the existence of the Chinese raised the standing of the blacks - who were admitted to certain 'white' clubs, while the Chinese were excluded. Yet Indy works with Wu Han, and acts as foster-father to Shorty.

However, as goodeknight wrote, that does not exclude Indy from exhibiting imperialist views. He might befriend and respect those of non-caucasian persuasion, but when it comes to 'savages' such as the Hovitos, he sees his claim to the fertility idol as being greater than their own.

Fortune and glory, bolstered by the mantra that "it belongs in a museum", permits him to moralize theft. He may, therefore, be imposing different rules for 'civilized' and 'uncivilized' foreigners.

If he can fabricate a justification, Indy will steal what he wants.

Belloq, on the other hand, will manipulate anyone for his own ends without justification.
 

The Drifter

New member
Re-read the question everyone! Rocket isn't talking about Indiana Jones, but the films being racist (or not). I got slapped on the wrist once already for making that grave mistake.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
The Drifter said:
Re-read the question everyone! Rocket isn't talking about Indiana Jones, but the films being racist (or not). I got slapped on the wrist once already for making that grave mistake.

But the question and the poll are two different...questions!

1) Indiana Jones: Racist?

2) Are the Indiana Jones Films Racist?


Rocko, of all people, knows that Raiders of the Lost Ark wasn't Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark. ;)


So, to answer question #2.

Yes. The films are racist.

Because they are in the tradtion of films and serials that were also racist.

They reflect certain attitudes, which may either be regarded as homage, or alternately, the ignorance or disregard of the film-makers themselves.

Since there is so much wrong, socially and historically, within the Indiana Jones films, it would be difficult to argue definitively whether racist aspects were intentional or not.
 
goodeknight said:
I say "Orientalist" in the way Edward Said used the term -- meaning the patronizing West seeing the East as somewhat inferior or less. Still not racism, though.
Could that simply and validly be applied to technological inferiority, i.e. industrialization?

Originally Grandstanded by Driftwood
Re-read the question everyone! Rocket isn't talking about Indiana Jones, but the films being racist (or not). I got slapped on the wrist once already for making that grave mistake.

Congratulations, you've managed to drag your ass across the carpet of this conversation...I guess skid marks are the best you can contribute.
 

The Drifter

New member
Rocko said:
Congratulations, you've managed to drag your ass across the carpet of this conversation...I guess skid marks are the best you can contribute.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Keep bumping that post-count, Rocko. And thanks for the congrats. Means a lot coming from a legend like yourself.
 
goodeknight said:
...he's more than willing to grab the Chacapoyan fertility idol to stick it in a museum. Maybe he's keeping it safe from Belloq, but he certainly doesn't intend on giving it back to the locals.
Does it matter, (their claim) that they're Hovitos and not Chachapoyans?

Montana Smith said:
But the question and the poll are two different...questions!
Good Lord. The Title of the thread:

1) Indiana Jones: Racist?

...is general.

The Poll question:

2) Are the Indiana Jones Films Racist?

...and the initial post question:

3) Where is the racism in any of the Indiana Jones films?

...each in their turn, and as they are able, build off of each other.

:rolleyes:

The Drifter said:
Keep bumping that post-count, Rocko. And thanks for the congrats. Means a lot coming from a legend like yourself.

Don't have to guess any longer, thanks for confirming.:hat:
 

Montana Smith

Active member
http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/...vies/indiana-jones-and-the-temple-of-the-doom

http://www.thefilmjournal.com/issue12/templeofdoom.html

Steven Spielberg's Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom as Virtual Reality: The Orientalist and Colonial Legacies of Gunga Din

by Dr. Kaizaad Navroze Kotwal


Kaizaad Kotwal is a professor at The Ohio State University's Theatre Department. Originally from India, the author has his B.A. in Theatre, Art, and Economics and an M.A. in Theatre. His dissertation research concerned Virtual Reality and Cyber-Technologies for Theatre and Cinema. He is also an actor, director, producer, writer and designer with over 150 credits to his name.

Both Steven Spielberg?s Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, and George Steven?s Gunga Din (the former of which owes a huge debt to), are celluloid Virtual Realities (1) which are fraught with problems of racist, orientalist imagery, reinforcing colonial notions of the ?orientals? (Indians in the case of the above mentioned movies) as savage, filthy, pagan and uncivilized. It is important to revisit such films to expose them not simply as escapist, action films, but rather as films that endorse ideologies of colonialism and hegemonic notions of racial superiority.

....

http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/onlinessays/JC30folder/IndianaJonesTempDoom.html
 

The Drifter

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Don't have to guess any longer, thanks for confirming.:hat:
You're welcome! :D

Anyhoo, does anyone else share the view that the Pankot dinner scene could be concidered racist? I recall a few users saying such, but can't remember which thread it was in. I think it plays on certain stereotypes, but not racist. What other scenes stand out?
 
Montana Smith said:
Yes. The films are racist.

Because they are in the tradtion of films and serials that were also racist.

They reflect certain attitudes, which may either be regarded as homage, or alternately, the ignorance or disregard of the film-makers themselves.

Since there is so much wrong, socially and historically, within the Indiana Jones films, it would be difficult to argue definitively whether racist aspects were intentional or not.

Pretty slim Tana, downright anorexic...examples please.

Where is the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races?

...or: Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
The Drifter said:
Anyhoo, does anyone else share the view that the Pankot dinner scene could be concidered racist? I recall a few users saying such, but can't remember which thread it was in. I think it plays on certain stereotypes, but not racist. What other scenes stand out?

I think Lucas and Spielberg were merely displaying their ignorance and blatant disregard for history and culture.

The same disregard that launched Raiders into a fantasy world or parallel universe wherein technology was advanced before its time, where foreigners could open bars in Nepal, Thuggee spill blood, and the supernatural occurs.

However, it may not be the case that Hindus are forbidden to eat meat - only meat from a cow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_in_Hinduism#Vegetarian_Hindus
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Pretty slim Tana, downright anorexic...examples please.

Where is the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races?

...or: Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief?

Short Round is a martial arts expert, because is oriental.

Natives will run in terror from certain signs or locations.

Natives will be splattered on windscreens for comedic effect.

Natives will be lecherous and have to be beaten with frying pans.

Natives who honour and protect objects deriving from other natives will have those objects removed for display in museums so civilized white people may see them, and white mercenaries may be paid.


The films play with stereotypes existing in the source material, though it is uncertain whether this is purely homage or actual racism.


TOD mixes it up. Shorty might be a martial arts expert based upon his race, but he is also the real hero, without whom the slaves wouldn't be freed, and Indy would have remained a white zombie to a brown master.
 
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