Bantam Series: Canon?

Raiders90

Well-known member
Stoo said:
Plenty of things in the films tell us that 1935 is not his 1st adventure. In "Raiders", Marcus says, "It's like nothing you've ever gone after before." and Indy is called "an obtainer of rare antiquities". One year would seem too short to have that sort of reputation. From "Doom":

1) Indy's weathered clothes
2) Indy's skill & resourcefulness with a whip
3) Indy's knowledge, experience & wariness of booby-traps, finding secret passages, etc.
4) Indy 'found Nurhachi' before the film begins
5) Wu Han says he has followed Indy on 'many adventure'
6) Chatter Lal has heard Dr. Jones' name from studying at Oxford and directly refers to pre-1935 events in Honduras and Madagascar

Even though the "Chronicles" ends in 1920, Lucas had a 'vision' of 2 episodes set in 1921 which were planned to have adventurous themes with Indy on expedition in both stories. (The "Brazil" episode would've contradicted the "Seven Veils" novel.) Excluding the unproduced shows, there's still the hunt for the Eye of the Peacock, the Jackal's head (and the Cross of Coronado).

Without the novels, Lucas' vision was more more like 1921-19?? but, years ago, I remember reading where he talked about the untold gap between the TV series and the movies. He said something like (paraphrasing), "I'll leave it to someone else to tell those stories." (Wish I could find the quote!)

Not quite sure what you mean about 'first adventure'. Do you mean 1st mystical one?:confused:

I mean his first real adventure where he's the guy with the hat, leather jacket, the whip, etc--Where he's the tough and street wise Indiana we know from the Harrison movies. In Peacock's Eye, he's still even after the war a naive, not really 'macho' kid who gives up because a preachy anthropologist tells him it's a bad idea to keep going essentially. That's the problem with the Chronicles--Did he have to meet a famous person in EVERY episode? Why couldn't they have Indy ever actually get past being a squeaky clean, totally PC character in the series?

A lot of the stories themselves are nice stories, but they still would've been better stories without the historical characters involved, and if you had a better actor portraying Indy--Sean Patrick Flannery comes off like a wuss. Just like I've said when talking about the idea of Tom Selleck as Indy--The problem with SPF, like Selleck, is his voice. Harrison Ford has a deep, distinctive voice; He sounds pretty authoritative. It's a part of the character just like everything else is, and let's be honest: Could you expect someone like SPF or Tom Selleck to say, "Let her go!" in Raiders and come off as commanding? His voice is part of what makes him come off badas* SPF even by the last Chronicles episode still has that high pitched (for Indy) voice and giggles too much and comes off somehow, I don't know, effete? He's not street wise at all. He doesn't come off at all rogue-ish. He never even lets his stubble grow out, not even when he's at war, nor when he's searching for the Peacock's Eye. He's always dressed way too formally. Yeah, the scene where he uses the whip in 1916 is cool, but it would've been nice to see him don the "Indy gear" for the first time in the Chronicles.
 

Col. Detritch

New member
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
That's the problem with the Chronicles--Did he have to meet a famous person in EVERY episode?

I always saw the purpose of the Chronicles (besides showing us Indy's early years) as a history lesson with Indy in it. But that's just me. :hat:
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Stone Triple said:
They're deeper and more detailed, which is to be expected. You can only put so much detail into a two-hour film. Don't get me wrong, man, I dig the films and watch them regularly. I also listen to full-film rips of the audio tracks regularly, as a sort of books-on-film type deal. However, if I want to get deep into detail I go for the books, particularly MacGregor.
I can see where you're coming from, Stone. Having seen the films so many times since the '80s, I rarely watch them in full anymore and well appreciate all the extra Indy tales in books & comics. Indy literature is the only thing I collect outside of the videos (+ artwork, graphics) but can't say I "enjoy" them more than the movies & TV show. That said, any starving fan should be glad there is so much out there!
Raiders112390 said:
I mean his first real adventure where he's the guy with the hat, leather jacket, the whip, etc--Where he's the tough and street wise Indiana we know from the Harrison movies.
How does this define a "real adventure"? You must mean the 1st adventure with the 'real Indiana Jones'?:confused: Anyway, Indy does more than only "seducing Marion" between 1920-1935. His other adventures are referred to within the films themselves (as I pointed out above) even though we don't see them.

As for the Bantam novels being canon: Until a filmed adventure comes along which contradicts them, why can't they be? It's highly probable that most Indy literature fans consider them canon in that they supercede/co-exist with any other 'expanded universe' material set during the same period (English & French comic books, German novels, video games, role-playing games, Find-Your-Fate books, etc.)

Anyway, you're whining about Flanery in your own thread about the Bantam books. I would comment on some of it (especially the stubble remark) but this really isn't the place.;)
 

Lao_Che

Active member
Stoo said:
Plus, Indy also goes after Nicolas Flamel's account of the stone in the French comic, "Indiana Jones et le Grimore Maudit". All 3 of the Philosopher's Stone stories were published within a few months of each other in 1995. Oh, the conundrum!:eek:

There may also be another (or more) in WEG's ...1995 Indiana Jones Artifacts.

And whatever was going on Beyond the Lucifer Chamber! ;)
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Col. Detritch said:
I always saw the purpose of the Chronicles (besides showing us Indy's early years) as a history lesson with Indy in it. But that's just me. :hat:

I know it was part of Lucas' idea...But I mean in some episodes he would meet 2 to 3 famous figures. It was a little overkill.
I don't understand why he couldn't have just made a Young Indy that would've been like the Harrison movies. He could've made a brand new character if edutainment was more important than telling Indy's story, because often times in the Chronicles, it does seem the event or figure Indy is meeting takes precedence over HIS story as a character.
 

Junior Jones

New member
Raiders112390 said:
...often times in the Chronicles, it does seem the event or figure Indy is meeting takes precedence over HIS story as a character.

Actually I don't find that the historical figures overshadow Indy. I'm interested in how they influence him. So it is all Indy's story.

An example:
Albert Schwietzer influenced Indy's view of life. He kills when necessary, but not wantonly. This episode transitioned him from blindly following orders as a soldier to his decision to join the intelligence service in an effort to end the war more quickly.

And there are many more...
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Junior Jones said:
Actually I don't find that the historical figures overshadow Indy. I'm interested in how they influence him. So it is all Indy's story.

An example:
Albert Schwietzer influenced Indy's view of life. He kills when necessary, but not wantonly. This episode transitioned him from blindly following orders as a soldier to his decision to join the intelligence service in an effort to end the war more quickly.

And there are many more...

While Lucas had intended the TV series to be educational, so much effort went into the production that it begs to be more than just a dramatized history show for children. It really does deserve a place in Indy canon.
 

kongisking

Active member
Heh...I was looking at the New Posts page, and saw this thread, and misread the word "Bantam" as "Batman". Batman novels in the Indyverse? Huh? :D

Sorry for going off-topic.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
kongisking said:
Heh...I was looking at the New Posts page, and saw this thread, and misread the word "Bantam" as "Batman". Batman novels in the Indyverse? Huh? :D

Sorry for going off-topic.

Maybe it could be it's own thread? ;) An Indy/Batman cross-over could work quite well.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
I guess, when all is considered, they (both the Chronicles and the Bantam books) are indeed canon--In that they tell the story of Indy's early adventures and life.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Raiders112390 said:
I guess, when all is considered, they (both the Chronicles and the Bantam books) are indeed canon--In that they tell the story of Indy's early adventures and life.
Might as well include the Young Indy books from Random House since they fill the gap between 1912-1915.
Lao_Che said:
There may also be another (or more) in WEG's ...1995 Indiana Jones Artifacts.

And whatever was going on Beyond the Lucifer Chamber!;)
A 4th Philospher's Stone?:eek: Is "Beyond the Lucifer Chamber" a West End Games module?
 

Lao_Che

Active member
Stoo said:
A 4th Philospher's Stone?:eek: Is "Beyond the Lucifer Chamber" a West End Games module?

Issue 21 of the Marvel comics. It isn't seen, but Austin Coleridge claims he touched the Philosopher's Stone which has turned his hand to gold and it lies behind the door in the Lucifer Chamber (in a mine in Wales).

He thinks the door is the path to an underground city called Agharta which is the home to a lost but still active group of alchemists.

-

Of the WEG books, I like Indiana Jones Artifacts alot. Most of it's presented as the journal fragments of some nameless archaeologist commissioned to index the world's artifacts. Their worth, locations, powers and hearsay etc.

I'm not typing the whole section but:

Indiana Jones Artifacts said:
The philosopher's stone in question belonged to an amateur German alchemist who was hung by Frederick of Wurzburg.

It then says the alchemist didn't know its true natue and after his death, the stone was confiscated but as the officials didn't regard it either, the Stone was tossed aside and used as a brick in the building of a clock tower at Wurzburg.

The additional "Rumors and Legends" notes include one saying that a ground up philosopher's stone is required to make the formula for Greek fire, and another note saying that if there's one source of stones, it's in China where they first appeared.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Stoo said:
Might as well include the Young Indy books from Random House since they fill the gap between 1912-1915.
A 4th Philospher's Stone?:eek: Is "Beyond the Lucifer Chamber" a West End Games module?

I wish they would reprint the Young Indy books. I never got a chance to read them.
I personally consider the canon this way:

Movies & YIJC A tier Canon. Indisputably canon.
Novels B Tier--Most true, the details might be sketchy in some, but overall canon
Video games--Half and half. I consider games like Infernal Machine and FoA canon, the others are so-so.
Everything else (Non-Canon)--I don't consider the comics, RPG stuff, sourcebooks, etc, canon.
 

IndyBr

Member
In my personal canon, I try to make everything fits: The Movies, Young Indy, the novels, the comics, the young adult books, the FYF books, and the games.
So far I had no big deal working that out (even with 3 philospher's stones, the only thing I haven't figured out yet is the 2 Emperor Quin's tombs).

THere are a few things that I don't include in my personal canon: Desktop adventures, the Star Wars crossover comic, and that facebook game (There's probably more, but I don't remember right now).

And just for the record: The novels are my second favorite media for Indy, right after the movies.
 

Henry W Jones

New member
IndyBr said:
In my personal canon, I try to make everything fits: The Movies, Young Indy, the novels, the comics, the young adult books, the FYF books, and the games.
So far I had no big deal working that out (even with 3 philospher's stones, the only thing I haven't figured out yet is the 2 Emperor Quin's tombs).

THere are a few things that I don't include in my personal canon: Desktop adventures, the Star Wars crossover comic, and that facebook game (There's probably more, but I don't remember right now).

And just for the record: The novels are my second favorite media for Indy, right after the movies.

How about when you pick a bad ending for Indy in FYF? Is it canon when he dies? :p lol
 

IndyBr

Member
Henry W Jones said:
How about when you pick a bad ending for Indy in FYF? Is it canon when he dies? :p lol

I consider the major storyline canon, you know, like... Indy was after the Eye of the Fate in that time period (don't remember the year) and all.
 

AustrianGoodbye

New member
Grimdiana Bones said:
I agree, I think of indy as very open ended, and meant for the charachter to have many different adventures. I dont really know what I'm trying to say here :p , but I consider everything up to fan fiction canon.

Exactly my thoughts. (y)
 

Indy86

New member
Sure, why not? It fills the timegap more than enough between the Chronicles and Doom and it continues neatly after the even in LC and well into the early years of the war.

I also like to see everything fit in as neatly as possible no matter what it is or where it came from, Chronicles, books, the movies, the games...
 
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