Barnett or Marshall?

Montana Smith

Active member
Exulted Unicron said:
I was only going on what dates were listed on the wiki entry and also from the books and movies.

Where did you find the 1931 date as his beginning at Princeton?

I haven't read any of the fiction books beyond the three movie novelizations.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Montana Smith said:
Where did you find the 1931 date as his beginning at Princeton?

I haven't read any of the fiction books beyond the three movie novelizations.

See, that's the thing. I haven't read the Bantam novels for years, I confess, but I don't recall him teaching at Marshall at all in those years. (Princeton I definitely recall, and then the transition to...where?...at the end of Secret of the Sphinx). He taught in London for a couple years, I think.

This isn't to disagree with you, but rather the wiki page - it just doesn't jibe with my memories. Unfortunately, I don't have the novels with me right now, and the lack of citation of the Bantam books on the relevant pages there think they're trying to paper over some inconsistencies.

Anyone following this thread who does have the novels? I distinctly remember a switch at the end of Secret of the Sphinx. There's also some stuff going on with the older faculty member who, if I recall correctly, is introduced in the Caidin novels and also appears in at least one of the McCoys.

I'm prepared to be wrong about this, but...something seems like it's missing.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
Wikia dates updated:

1939: Barnett College
?
1957: Marshall College
Here's a quote from Frank Marshall in an issue of "Premiere" (Spring 2008). Giving the statement any validity could put Indy back at Marshall pre-1942.

Re: Indy in the upcoming Crystal Skull
?With age, Indy has become wiser. He has taught at Marshall College for more than 15 years, which has brought him a certain experience.?

There's also this thread for a more in-depth look at Indy's where'n'when: Colleges Indiana Jones Attended,Graduated from,and Taught at Timeline

Montana Smith said:
That explains the Marcus/museum connection, then.
There's a really good thread about this somewhere!

Exulted Unicorn said:
I was only going on what dates were listed on the wiki entry and also from the books and movies.
Well, unfortunately, it's wrong. That wiki list posted above is bullsh*t!(n)

Exulted Unicorn said:
Indy was at Marshall College (in Bedford Connecticut) in 1925-31,where he'd gone back to Princeton University, then returned to Marshall for 1935 and 1936.He continued to teach archaeology at Marshall until 1938, where he transferred to Barnett College (Fairfield, New York). Indy returned to Marshall in the 50s.
Indy was NOT at Marshall between 1925-31! (Who writes this stuff?!?) Plus, he was teaching at Barnett by the fall of '37, not 1938 (see "Arms of Gold"). Wiki? Schmiki!(n)
Exulted Unicorn said:
One reason given for this is that the dean of Barnett had heard about Indy and had requested his presence at Barnett to teach archaeology to its students.
"One reason given". Where, in Indylore, was this reason given?
 

Exulted Unicron

New member
Indy was working for Princeton University in these novels:

# Indiana Jones and the Philosopher's Stone
# Indiana Jones and the Dinosaur Eggs
# Indiana Jones and the Hollow Earth (Mentioned only)
# Indiana Jones and the Secret of the Sphinx
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
Well, unfortunately, it's wrong. That wiki list posted above is bullsh*t!(n)

Indy was NOT at Marshall between 1925-31! (Who writes this stuff?!?) Plus, he was teaching at Barnett by the fall of '37, not 1938 (see "Arms of Gold"). Wiki? Schmiki!(n)

Here's that list again, with the evidence they cited, and the uncited years removed:

1925: Marshall College (Lost Journal - letter from Abner)
?
1933: Princeton University (Lost Journal - newspaper cutting)
?
1935: Marshall College (no source given)
1936: Marshall College (ROTLA)
1937: Marshall College/Barnett College (Arms of Gold)
1938: Barnett College (LC)
1939: Barnett College (Fate of Atlantis )
?
1957: Marshall College (KOTCS)

Stoo said:
Here's a quote from Frank Marshall in an issue of "Premiere" (Spring 2008). Giving the statement any validity could put Indy back at Marshall pre-1942.

Re: Indy in the upcoming Crystal Skull
?With age, Indy has become wiser. He has taught at Marshall College for more than 15 years, which has brought him a certain experience.?

If we can take Marshall as writing legitimate Indy history that would fill in a big chunk of the missing teaching history.


Stoo said:
There's also this thread for a more in-depth look at Indy's where'n'when: Colleges Indiana Jones Attended,Graduated from,and Taught at Timeline

AnnieJones said:
Updated(5/4/2009)but it won't matter because it is all wrong anyway.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
September 1919-Attended the University of Chicago
June 1922-Graduated from the University of Chicago
July 1922-Attended Sorbonne in Paris(in postgraduate courses in linguistics and he met Rene Belloq in Aug.1922 on an archaeological dig in Ur,Iraq.)
1925-Graduated from Sorbonne in Paris
February 1925 until Summer 1925-Taught at London University,England
1925 to 1926-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
1927-Left his job in London and worked in the field as an Archaeologist
1928 to 1930-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
1930-Taught at University of London
1930-Taught at Princeton,New Jersey
1931 to 1933-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
1933-Taught again at Princeton University
Sometime between Jan.1,1933 and Jan.29,1933-took a sabbatical from Princeton
1933 to 1935-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
July 1935-Resigned from Princeton University
July 1935-Taught at Marshall College,Bedford,Connecticut
1935 to 1936-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
1936-Taught again at Marshall College
1936 to 1937-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
Fall 1937-Taught at Barnett College,New York
January 1938 to February 1938-Taught again at Barnett College
February 1938-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
March 1938-Taught again at Barnett College
1938 to Late 1939-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
December 1939-Joined the O.S.S.in World War II
1939-Taught again at Barnett College
1939 to 1941-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
May 1942-Worked for the O.S.S. again
1943 to 1951-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist
Sometime between 1951 and 1957,Indy left Barnett College,and returned to Marshall College in Bedford, Connecticut

The only difference I can spot with AnnieJones' timleline is 1925 . In the Lost Journal there is a letter from Abner to Indy dated June 27 1925 in which he writes: "So, I extend my begging bowl and kindly request your help on this last expedition before returning to your teaching obligations at Marshall College."
 

AnnieJones

New member
Montana Smith said:
The only difference I can spot with AnnieJones' timleline is 1925 . In the Lost Journal there is a letter from Abner to Indy dated June 27 1925 in which he writes: "So, I extend my begging bowl and kindly request your help on this last expedition before returning to your teaching obligations at Marshall College."
I've updated it.
Be careful some of it may be incorrect.
September 191?-192?-Attended the University of Chicago to study Archaeology.
1920-1925-University of Paris (La Sorbonne), Linguistics, PhD
Indy worked part-time in the archaeology lab at Sorbonne and started. teaching in London,England for the summer semester of 1925.
1925-Indy eventually taught at Marshall College.
June 27,1925-Abner requested Indy's help on an expedition before Indy returned to his teaching obligations at Marshall College.
1925 to 1926-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
1927-Left his job in London and worked in the field as an Archaeologist.
1928 to 1930-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
1930-Taught at University of London.
1930-Taught at Princeton,New Jersey.
1931 to 1933-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
1933-Taught again at Princeton University.
Sometime between Jan.1,1933 and Jan.29,1933-took a sabbatical from Princeton.
1933 to 1935-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
July 1935-Resigned from Princeton University.
July 1935-Taught at Marshall College,Bedford,Connecticut.
1935 to 1936-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
1936-Taught again at Marshall College.
1936 to 1937-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
Fall 1937-Taught at Barnett College,New York.
January 1938 to February 1938-Taught again at Barnett College.
February 1938-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
March 1938-Taught again at Barnett College.
1938 to Late 1939-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
December 1939-Joined World War II.
1939-Taught again at Barnett College.
1939 to 1941-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
1942-Joined O.S.S. as part of World War II.
1943 to 1951-Was working in the field as an Archaeologist.
Sometime between 1951 and 1957,Indy left Barnett College,and returned to Marshall College in Bedford, Connecticut.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
Here's that list again, with the evidence they cited, and the uncited years removed:

1925: Marshall College (Lost Journal - letter from Abner)
This is biggest problem with "Lost Journal". It tries to encompass all sources of Indylore but doesn't do a good job at correlating them. I'm really curious to know how/why they placed Indy at Marshall in 1925. What is this based on? The letter is in complete contradiction to the pages which come immediately before & after it.(n)
Montana Smith said:
If we can take Marshall as writing legitimate Indy history that would fill in a big chunk of the missing teaching history.
The funny thing is that Frank Marshall's name is the inside-joke basis for the college name in "Raiders". Before the release of Indy 4, there was more evidence in "Crusade" for the name, Barnett, than there ever was for Marshall in "Raiders". (As far as I recall, the first time the name, Marshall, appeared was in the Marvel comics. I don't have the "Raiders" novel handy to check. Anyone else know where the name FIRST appeared?)
Montana Smith said:
The only difference I can spot with AnnieJones' timleline is 1925 . In the Lost Journal there is a letter from Abner to Indy dated June 27 1925 in which he writes: "So, I extend my begging bowl and kindly request your help on this last expedition before returning to your teaching obligations at Marshall College."
Annie's timeline also has a few hiccups in it so there are more differences than just 1925. (Will get to the nitty-gritty details in the other thread.;)) Sticking to just Marshall/Barnett, here are a few more dates from the "Ultimate Guide" to throw into the mix:

1935 July: Indy resigns from Princeton and begins at Marshall AFTER the events in "Temple of Doom"!:eek:
1938 January: Indy begins teaching at Barnett College, New York. (1938? I don't think so...not according to "Arms of Gold".)

Once again, all this goes to show how screwed up the Indy timeline is!:(
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
The funny thing is that Frank Marshall's name is the inside-joke basis for the college name in "Raiders". Before the release of Indy 4, there was more evidence in "Crusade" for the name, Barnett, than there ever was for Marshall in "Raiders". (As far as I recall, the first time the name, Marshall, appeared was in the Marvel comics. I don't have the "Raiders" novel handy to check. Anyone else know where the name FIRST appeared?)

It's in the novelization. Chapter 3 is entitled 'Connecticut' and the first line reads: "Indiana Jones sat in his office at Marshall College."

I think the thing with Marshall was that they named the college after him without him knowing - so when he went on set he stareted seeing his name everywhere. But try must have primed Campbell Black who was writing the novel late on, without knowing that the 'stagecoach' truck stunt was going to be in the film.

Stoo said:
Annie's timeline also has a few hiccups in it so there are more differences than just 1925. (Will get to the nitty-gritty details in the other thread.;)) Sticking to just Marshall/Barnett, here are a few more dates from the "Ultimate Guide" to throw into the mix:

1935 July: Indy resigns from Princeton and begins at Marshall AFTER the events in "Temple of Doom"!:eek:

1938 January: Indy begins teaching at Barnett College, New York. (1938? I don't think so...not according to "Arms of Gold".)

What month was TOD supposed to take place in? 1935 as a year would work with him leaving Princeton for Marshall.

The Arms of Gold has him assigned classes in autumn 1937, and another source as him beginning at Barnett in Jauary 1938, so that one could be fudged.

Stoo said:
Once again, all this goes to show how screwed up the Indy timeline is!:(

Have to back to saying that some of the witnesses to Indy's history were a bit befuddled, and Indy's been too busy to put them right!
 

AnnieJones

New member
Urgh!:confused:
Everything is so very confusing.I just want my timeline to be correct.
Could someone who knows what they're talking about please just fix it for me already.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
AnnieJones said:
Urgh!:confused:
Everything is so very confusing.I just want my timeline to be correct.
Could someone who knows what they're talking about please just fix it for me already.

Thing is, it's <I>very</I> possible, especially with the existence of the notably unreliable Ultimate Guide and somewhat dubious Lost Journal, that it just isn't going to match up in any fashion. You've got to be prepared for that possibility.
 

Joosse

New member
Okay, just to throw a wrench in the works...

Could it be possible that he was attached to different schools at the same time? This is not something that is unheard of in the educational community... ;)
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
Thing is, it's <I>very</I> possible, especially with the existence of the notably unreliable Ultimate Guide and somewhat dubious Lost Journal, that it just isn't going to match up in any fashion. You've got to be prepared for that possibility.

I wonder why Lucas dropped the ball when it came to the chronolgy of Indy? With Star Wars, after the wild events in the early Marvel comic strips, he seemed to keep a tight grip on the history of that universe, with authors consulting an approved timeline.

With Indiana Jones Lucas doesn't seem to have the same consideration, which as AnnieJones wrote, makes things very confusing, and especially frustrating, if, like me, you're a stickler for getting things in good and proper order.

As you write, Attila, it's very possible that a single 'official' or universal chronology will not be possible. Any chronology will have to have to include possible alternative dates.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Joosse said:
Okay, just to throw a wrench in the works...

Could it be possible that he was attached to different schools at the same time? This is not something that is unheard of in the educational community... ;)

This may also help - as with Indy being assigned classes for Barnett late in 1937, but actually taking up his full-time post in 1938. If you're with a college for a number of years you may have responsibilities and connections that will call you back, or you might be filling in for an absent lecturer, or as you suggest, Joosse, you're simply attached to more than one institution - like teaching part-time in two places, depending on the travelling times between Marshall and Barnett.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
It's in the novelization. Chapter 3 is entitled 'Connecticut' and the first line reads: "Indiana Jones sat in his office at Marshall College."!
Well, there we have it! Thanks for looking that up, Matt. (I skimmed through some of the early Marvels and couldn't find the Marshall name anywhere...Could've sworn it was there somewhere. Anyone know?)
Montana Smith said:
What month was TOD supposed to take place in? 1935 as a year would work with him leaving Princeton for Marshall.
"Doom" stretches anywhere between June-December, 1935. Although this question is rather vital to the discussion, at the moment I think I would rather drill a hole between my eyes than try pinpointing the precise date for "Doom" or "Raiders". For a thread dedicated to that very topic (+ a whole lot more), check out this whopper: The Indiana Jones Timeline / Chronology

"Ultimate Guide" has ToD in June with Indy's switch from Princeton to Marshall happening in July. This tiny footnote puts a whole new spin on things. Indy's dialogue in "Doom" about being a professor would be him referring to his job in New Jersey and NOT Connecticut!:eek: (Was this idea conceived for the DK Ultimate Guide? I think so...)

Does the Wu Han Video Game give any clues?:p
Montana Smith said:
The Arms of Gold has him assigned classes in autumn 1937, and another source as him beginning at Barnett in Jauary 1938, so that one could be fudged.
According to "Arms of Gold", Indy is unquestionably at Barnett c.Aug/Sept 1937. (The curious part is: Where did the January '38 date come from outside of the "Ultimate Guide"?:confused:)
AnnieJones said:
Urgh!:confused:
Everything is so very confusing.I just want my timeline to be correct.
Could someone who knows what they're talking about please just fix it for me already.
I can help, Annie, but in your other thread (as most of the additions are pre-1935). You need your timeline fixed? I've got the tools...:eek::p
Attila the Professor said:
Thing is, it's very possible, especially with the existence of the notably unreliable Ultimate Guide and somewhat dubious Lost Journal, that it just isn't going to match up in any fashion. You've got to be prepared for that possibility.
One must go with the source material before consulting these types of compilations (unless they concern something new or unique). More often than not, the only times the content of either book is worth mentioning is to point out their lack of credibility.:( (Which is extremely unfortunate since I love them both.:eek:) Like you say, Attila, a complete Indy timeline is NEVER going to be free of problems. It's much too late in the game.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
AnnieJones said:
That is my favorite timeline!I love how it puts everything together so nicely.(y)

That is a very helpful timeline for putting the stories/adventures in chronological order.

Timelines often get messy when you start to unpack each adventure and list out the events described or noted within, and you discover that the writer hasn't consulted what's gone before. Especially, as it appears to be, with the various guides and diaries that have appeared more recently.

Lucasfilm's strong arm tactics on the chronology of Star Wars is sorely lacking with Indy. Does George really care less about poor Indy? :confused:
 
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