THE BIG BANG: Raiders story conference transcripts!!??

Robyn

Robyn

New member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
Well, what is? You say you felt they put no passion in it. Do you feel the same about Crusade and Kingdom?
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The problem with tod for me what, too much focas on horror/cult/voodoo/, the heart ripping, there was no excuss for some of the bad special effects in tod, the special effects in Raiders were a million times better, and I didn't like that they went back in time so Lucas wouldn't have to be questioned about no Marion, and I didn't like the stones either..

this is how I feel.. I love the whole series, but I just don't think they put everything they had into them like Raiders
 
The Drifter

The Drifter

New member
ronicle said:
The problem with tod for me what, too much focas on horror/cult/voodoo/, the heart ripping, there was no excuss for some of the bad special effects in tod, the special effects in Raiders were a million times better, and I didn't like that they went back in time so Lucas wouldn't have to be questioned about no Marion, and I didn't like the stones either..

this is how I feel.. I love the whole series, but I just don't think they put everything they had into them like Raiders
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I respect your opinion on it. And, you have every right to dislike those aspects. But, I never really understood where people get that ToD has horror/frightening images in it.
The only thing that I know is the heart-ripping scene, but to me that is no worse than Toht's face melting or Donovon's face shrink. ToD has black-humor. Such as the feast scene, and the way the Giant Thuggee died. The theme of slave-children looking for the lost stones is a bit dark, but the hero saves them in the end.

To me the book-burning scene in Crusade is "darkest" scene of the whole series.
 
Robyn

Robyn

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Lonsome_Drifter said:
I respect your opinion on it. And, you have every right to dislike those aspects. But, I never really understood where people get that ToD has horror/frightening images in it.
The only thing that I know is the heart-ripping scene, but to me that is no worse than Toht's face melting or Donovon's face shrink. ToD has black-humor. Such as the feast scene, and the way the Giant Thuggee died. The theme of slave-children looking for the lost stones is a bit dark, but the hero saves them in the end.

To me the book-burning scene in Crusade is "darkest" scene of the whole series.
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I actually didn't have a problem with the feast.. but I thought the heart ripping was so much more disgusting than the face melting.. I guess because on the face melting scene the evil people were the ones being melted rather than watching disgusting acts that the evil people were performing (does that make sense?) and what about the special effects? I mean almost no effort was put into that.. when the plane hit the mountain was the absolute worst, I have to look away when that part comes on..

also in Raiders, it really felt like Indy and Marion became such a team, and then Lucas wants to go back time to put in screaming blonde? That was really hard for me to deal with, it was like splitting up william powell and mirna loy..

but I do respect your opinion too though!
 
The Drifter

The Drifter

New member
ronicle said:
I actually didn't have a problem with the feast.. but I thought the heart ripping was so much more disgusting than the face melting.. I guess because on the face melting scene the evil people were the ones being melted rather than watching disgusting acts that the evil people were performing (does that make sense?)
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Yes, that makes sense.
I was talking about there is no difference in gruesomeness (is that a word?), and the three different acts are horrific in nature. But, you do have a point. I can see how the sacrifice of an innocent man can turn some off. But. I believe that was used to show how the Thuggees sacrificed their victims to Kali (They did sacrifice people in real life, but not with lava pits and heart ripping lol), and to get the audience to see how evil the cult was.


ronicle said:
and what about the special effects? I mean almost no effort was put into that.. when the plane hit the mountain was the absolute worst, I have to look away when that part comes on..
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I must say that I agree with you here.
Raiders did have better special effects, and most in ToD look cheesy and fake. But, some of the matte paintings in ToD were breath-taking. Like the one of Pankot in the distance, and the other one of Pankot when Indy hollers for his razor.
I liked the effects in the mine-cart chase, besides the obvious use of dolls.
But, special effects never much swayed my opinion on a movie.

ronicle said:
also in Raiders, it really felt like Indy and Marion became such a team, and then Lucas wants to go back time to put in screaming blonde? That was really hard for me to deal with, it was like splitting up william powell and mirna loy..
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This is something else that bothers me.
Yes, Willie screams alot during the first half of the movie, but her character also started to change.
During the camping scene in the jungle, Willie shows genuine interest in the legend of Shiva. She tried helping Indiana by throwing rocks at the Giant Thugge while he was on the conveyor-belt.

She did not scream that much during the second half, and I thought that she became helpful during the end. Besides not all women are like Marion, and maybe Steven and Lucas did not want another rehash of Marion Ravenwood?

ronicle said:
but I do respect your opinion too though!
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Thank you.
 
Robyn

Robyn

New member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
Yes, that makes sense.
I was talking about there is no difference in gruesomeness (is that a word?), and the three different acts are horrific in nature. But, you do have a point. I can see how the sacrifice of an innocent man can turn some off. But. I believe that was used to show how the Thuggees sacrificed their victims to Kali (They did sacrifice people in real life, but not with lava pits and heart ripping lol), and to get the audience to see how evil the cult was.
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Yeah I do see what you mean, but I do think that's what it is though, there was something gruesome in all 4, the melting faces, the heart rip, the decaying donovan, the ants devouring dovchenko.. but tod was the only one where we see the evil people performing the gruesomeness


I must say that I agree with you here.
Raiders did have better special effects, and most in ToD look cheesy and fake. But, some of the matte paintings in ToD were breath-taking. Like the one of Pankot in the distance, and the other one of Pankot when Indy hollers for his razor.
I liked the effects in the mine-cart chase, besides the obvious use of dolls.
But, special effects never much swayed my opinion on a movie.
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I guess your right about that, they did do a great job on the matte paintings, I'll give them credit for that!


This is something else that bothers me.
Yes, Willie screams alot during the first half of the movie, but her character also started to change.
During the camping scene in the jungle, Willie shows genuine interest in the legend of Shiva. She tried helping Indiana by throwing rocks at the Giant Thugge while he was on the conveyor-belt.

She did not scream that much during the second half, and I thought that she became helpful during the end. Besides not all women are like Marion, and maybe Steven and Lucas did not want another rehash of Marion Ravenwood?
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No it really wasn't that she was such a bad character, and I don't hate willlie, not at all.. I just don't know why she's there! Indy had the perfect match with Marion, why do they need a different woman with Indy at all? Indy and Marion were the perfect team, and she should have been back the second time around, they didn't need to rehash Marion, they just should have had Marion.. like I said, it was like splitting up William Powell and Myrna Loy :(


I love hearing what other people think and debating and all btw so don't think this will turn into a fight or anything!
 
Robyn

Robyn

New member
vf wing said:
Indy's superpunch was one of the main reasons I sat in the theater to watch the whole thing again! (y)
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That punch was awesome and loved when they zoomed in on who did it, but like I said tod is not all bad, there's just a quite a few things that I hate about it
 
The Drifter

The Drifter

New member
ronicle said:
Yeah I do see what you mean, but I do think that's what it is though, there was something gruesome in all 4, the melting faces, the heart rip, the decaying donovan, the ants devouring dovchenko.. but tod was the only one where we see the evil people performing the gruesomeness
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No argument from me here. ToD is the only one where we see the villains do the gruesome acts. Besides, Kingdom; if you wanna count the Soviets opening fire on the american militrary




ronicle said:
I guess your right about that, they did do a great job on the matte paintings, I'll give them credit for that!
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At least you give them credit lol



ronicle said:
No it really wasn't that she was such a bad character, and I don't hate willlie, not at all.. I just don't know why she's there! Indy had the perfect match with Marion, why do they need a different woman with Indy at all? Indy and Marion were the perfect team, and she should have been back the second time around, they didn't need to rehash Marion, they just should have had Marion.. like I said, it was like splitting up William Powell and Myrna Loy :(
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Yes, I understand what you are saying. But, which one was it (George or Steven) who said they wanted Indiana Jones to be Bond-like by having multiple women? Indy Girls in a sense.


ronicle said:
I love hearing what other people think and debating and all btw so don't think this will turn into a fight or anything!
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I love debating the finer aspects of the movies also. And, I never intended this to end in a fight. I can clearly see that you don't either. So no worries there.
 
J

James

Well-known member
This series is unique, in that it's two separate filmmakers creating a work that spans nearly thirty years. Even if they had wanted to approach every film the same way as ROTLA, it was still going to be channeled through some drastically different mindsets.

The Man With No Name trilogy was created by one man during one brief period of his life. A more appropriate comparison would be Peter Jackson and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. If you set out to make three films at the same time, you're naturally going to end up with a similar product. Even so, Leone still felt the creative need and drive to make each film bigger- both in length and scope. If message boards had existed then, I'm sure many would've complained that the restraint and tight pacing of the original film had been lost. :rolleyes:

Now compare this to Spielberg, and the number and variety of films he worked on between Indy sequels. After doing Poltergeist, both he and Lucas found their personal lives in a much darker place. We see this reflected in TOD. Then Spielberg branched out with more dramatic fare, and this greater interest in character found its way into LC. By the time of KOTCS, both men were grandfathers seeking to relive a fond decade from their childhood. This was never going to work out for those craving a dark, modern update of the character.

The bottom line is that each of these films were very successful in terms of their critical and commercial receptions. Whether or not you are satisfied with their artistic merit is highly subjective.
 
Robyn

Robyn

New member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
Besides, Kingdom; if you wanna count the Soviets opening fire on the american militrary
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Well that was sad but not exactly gruesome like the other things..


Yes, I understand what you are saying. But, which one was it (George or Steven) who said they wanted Indiana Jones to be Bond-like by having multiple women? Indy Girls in a sense.
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Well I know I remember seeing a behind the scenes/interview and Steven saying he wanted Karen back for the next one but George insisted on the new girl everytime thing.... sucks so back for me when I imagine what could have been if they had made an Indy that picked up where Raiders left off :( ... I'll give Lucas a (n) for ruining that for me

But it was Lucas's idea for Indy and Marion to have a daughter and I would have loved that, and Steven who insisted they have a son, so I'll give Lucas credit (y) for that good idea and give Steven (n) for that one.. lol



I love debating the finer aspects of the movies also. And, I never intended this to end in a fight. I can clearly see that you don't either. So no worries there.
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(y) :cool:
 
S

SterankoII

New member
Willie is justified for me for making the spike chamber scene suspenseful. If it was Marion Indy and Shorty would have gotten out of it a lot faster!

Honestly, if they were going to be aliens in an Indy moie would have preferred if Indy had met the aliens head on like the early scripts instead of wrapping it with the Indy template of the search for an artifact and ruins. It would have been like Howard Hawks' The Thing.

But it was Lucas's idea for Indy and Marion to have a daughter and I would have loved that, and Steven who insisted they have a son, so I'll give Lucas credit for that good idea and give Steven for that one.. lol
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My fantasy for that would be Natalie Portman playing Indy's daughter through Marion and Scarlett Johansson's daughter through Willie!
 
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Robyn

Robyn

New member
willieboydap said:
That's why the kid was named "Mutt".

"Asta" was copyrighted.

:)
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Geeze why didn't I think of that! Do you know how funny that would have been if Mutt's name was Asta! LOL
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
ronicle said:
Geeze why didn't I think of that! Do you know how funny that would have been if Mutt's name was Asta! LOL
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Myrna Loy never had children, (although married and divorced 4 times), so I guess Asta was her precious.
 
Robyn

Robyn

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Myrna Loy never had children, (although married and divorced 4 times), so I guess Asta was her precious.
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She should have married William Powell! She once said that she was never happier than when she was with him... what a missed opportunity...
 
Moedred

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Someone spell-checked and color-coded it...
http://characteranimation.com/indy/RaidersStoryConferenceTranscript.pdf

These are the sources referenced in the Transcript:
Chariots of the Gods? (1968) ? Erich Von Daniken
The Spear of Destiny (1973) ? Trevor Ravenscroft
1955 (?) article by Phil Kaufman?s Chicago mononucleosis doctor, blood specialist
"In Search of the Lost Ark" (?) - Rolling Stone article

Does anyone have more info on the last two sources?
 
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