Star Wars: The Force Awakens

JasonMa · Jan 3, 2016

Maybe I misread something but the order of events I picked up from the movie:

1. Han and Leia have a child (Ben)
2. They raise Ben up to the point where he shows Force-sensitivity and can enter Jedi training with Luke
3. At some point Ben goes Dark, kills the other trainees, and becomes Kylo Ren
4. Leia and Han both grieve over what happens and Han, handling it poorly, returns to smuggling
5. Time passes up to the movie, where Han and Leia are reunited

At no point did I get the "absentee dad" trope being played. It appeared (to me) that Han and Leia were both part of his life up to the point where he went into Jedi training and were still involved as much as could be expected in that kind of situation.

I also don't get how Han is any more unreliable in business in TFA than in the original trilogy. Are we forgetting why Han shot first? Because he dumped Jabba's cargo and Jabba wanted him dead for it. We choose to believe that Han was right, even he gets borded some times and has no choice, but is it really that surprising that a guy who was running from bounty hunters and charging Luke and Obi-Wan an arm and a leg to get to Alderaan would be stretching his limits with his current source of funds?

Joe Brody does have some good points, but I simply think we don't know enough yet as to what happened in the intervening 30 years.

roundshort · Jan 4, 2016

Duaner said:
If you looked at an earlier comment I made, I said I watch movies for the characters. I was watching Han Solo, not Harrison Ford. I don't care one bit in the least about the money Harrison Ford made for it - completely irrelevant. Was I affected by those real-life events you mentioned? Absolutely! The world is a sick place. That's part of why I enjoy watching Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc. They provide a bit of an escape from our world. I would hope you feel that way too. After all, you are a member of a forum dedicated to Indiana Jones! As a result of my viewing movies for the escapism, I do become emotionally invested and yes it did greatly sadden me to lose a character who I have loved my entire life. Does that mean I find it more important than those real-life events? No! I never said anything remotely close to that.

If this movie drove you to tears and made you think about that scene for days and it affected that much - then I hope the real world where people died almost Killed you is my point. It is a movie. I was four when I saw Star Wars on opening dAy. I saw every other movie on opening day. Collecting Star Wars toys shaped my childhood. I have found memories of that. That is why I am here. When a fictional character is killed in a movie, no matter how beloved, I said, meh. Bummer Han is dead, now Poe is the sarcastic one.... People need to get a grip this is a movie. Harrison Ford, George Lucas or Disney does not care about you. Just your $$$$

roundshort · Jan 4, 2016

JasonMa said:
Maybe I misread something but the order of events I picked up from the movie:

1. Han and Leia have a child (Ben)
2. They raise Ben up to the point where he shows Force-sensitivity and can enter Jedi training with Luke
3. At some point Ben goes Dark, kills the other trainees, and becomes Kylo Ren
4. Leia and Han both grieve over what happens and Han, handling it poorly, returns to smuggling
5. Time passes up to the movie, where Han and Leia are reunited

I also don't get how Han is any more unreliable in business in TFA than in the original trilogy. Are we forgetting why Han shot first? Because he dumped Jabba's cargo and Jabba wanted him dead for it. We choose to believe that Han was right, even he gets borded some times and has no choice, but is it really that surprising that a guy who was running from bounty hunters and charging Luke and Obi-Wan an arm and a leg to get to Alderaan would be stretching his limits with his current source of funds?
.

You are totally missing the point. Ham is so loyal and wants to set thing right that is why he needs the cash to pay Jabba, even after he whacks Greedo. Then in Empire he is leaving, to pay Jabba because that is who he is. He is honorable. He pays his depts. he probably could have had the rebals go all ISIS on Jabba if he wanted to. After helping the nuke the Death Star I am sure they would have. But he wanted to make thins right.

The Force wakes up morphes Hans character into something he was
Not in the first three movies. That is why no one cared he was iced

Pale Horse · Jan 4, 2016

I Love This Post!!!!

roundshort said:
You are totally missing the point. Ham is so loyal and wants to set thing right that is why he needs the cash to pay Jabba, even after he whacks Greedo. Then in Empire he is leaving, to pay Jabba because that is who he is. He is honorable. He pays his depts. he probably could have had the rebals go all ISIS on Jabba if he wanted to. After helping the nuke the Death Star I am sure they would have. But he wanted to make thins right.

The Force wakes up morphes Hans character into something he was
Not in the first three movies. That is why no one cared he was iced

JasonMa · Jan 4, 2016

roundshort said:
You are totally missing the point. Ham is so loyal and wants to set thing right that is why he needs the cash to pay Jabba, even after he whacks Greedo. Then in Empire he is leaving, to pay Jabba because that is who he is. He is honorable. He pays his depts. he probably could have had the rebals go all ISIS on Jabba if he wanted to. After helping the nuke the Death Star I am sure they would have. But he wanted to make thins right.

What evidence in TFA is there that he didn't want to make his debts right? How are the two gangs catching up to him before he makes his delivery and gets paid any different than Greedo catching up to him before he gets paid by Luke and Obi-Wan?

Moedred · Jan 4, 2016

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Star Wars 7 box office will soon pass Raiders on the inflation adjusted domestic chart. (It's not population adjusted to consider 100 million additional potential moviegoers.)

Lance Quazar · Jan 4, 2016

roundshort said:
I hope that real life things like the Paris Attacks, 9/11, the recent SoCal shootings "affected" you more. This is a movie. No body really died. Harrison was paid 30 to 70 MILL to get poked by emo Ren.

To quote Han Solo, "Well, I'm glad you're here to tell us these things!"

Sheesh, what an unbelievably douche-y series of comments.

If we're not allowed to get emotionally invested in fiction or drama, what the **** is the point of engaging with it? The point of theater/drama/art is to evoke emotions and to tap into something.

I'm sorry if that doesn't meet your approved standard. Didn't realize we had to check our emotions against your personal barometer.

Amazingly enough, I'm capable of being sick to my stomach and outraged and heartbroken over things like the Paris attacks and, guess what, I still cried a helluva lot more when my dog passed away. One dog versus hundreds of people.

Guess I'm a horrible person. Or maybe I'm just human.

I also was emotionally invested in the death of Han. Even though Harrison Ford is sleeping on a gigantic pile of money (and weed.)

Gimme a break...

Pale Horse · Jan 4, 2016

Lance Quazar said:
Even though Harrison Ford is sleeping on a gigantic pile of money (and weed.)

Vodka. He drinks Vodka.

Lambonius · Jan 4, 2016

roundshort said:
Han is so loyal and wants to set thing right that is why he needs the cash to pay Jabba, even after he whacks Greedo. Then in Empire he is leaving, to pay Jabba because that is who he is. He is honorable. He pays his depts.

You must have watched a different original trilogy than I did, because those movies are pretty clear in the fact that Han is leaving to pay Jabba because he wants Jabba to stop hiring people to kill him. Not exactly selfless honor.

Pale Horse · Jan 4, 2016

Lambonius said:
You must have watched a different original trilogy than I did...

In shorty's defense, there were 3 versions of the "original"....Thanks George.

Duaner · Jan 4, 2016

Lance Quazar said:
To quote Han Solo, "Well, I'm glad you're here to tell us these things!"

Sheesh, what an unbelievably douche-y series of comments.

If we're not allowed to get emotionally invested in fiction or drama, what the **** is the point of engaging with it? The point of theater/drama/art is to evoke emotions and to tap into something.

I'm sorry if that doesn't meet your approved standard. Didn't realize we had to check our emotions against your personal barometer.

Amazingly enough, I'm capable of being sick to my stomach and outraged and heartbroken over things like the Paris attacks and, guess what, I still cried a helluva lot more when my dog passed away. One dog versus hundreds of people.

Guess I'm a horrible person. Or maybe I'm just human.

I also was emotionally invested in the death of Han. Even though Harrison Ford is sleeping on a gigantic pile of money (and weed.)

Gimme a break...

Finally, someone who understands where I was coming from. I'm glad there are others out there who can still be enthralled and taken in by the magic of the movies.

Duaner · Jan 4, 2016

roundshort said:
If this movie drove you to tears and made you think about that scene for days and it affected that much - then I hope the real world where people died almost Killed you is my point. It is a movie. I was four when I saw Star Wars on opening dAy. I saw every other movie on opening day. Collecting Star Wars toys shaped my childhood. I have found memories of that. That is why I am here. When a fictional character is killed in a movie, no matter how beloved, I said, meh. Bummer Han is dead, now Poe is the sarcastic one.... People need to get a grip this is a movie. Harrison Ford, George Lucas or Disney does not care about you. Just your $$$$

I'm glad you clarified your point. It is so valid.

I can see you were that kid that laughed when Old Yeller died. "Meh, they have a puppy just like him. That hour and a half I just spent getting to know the dog meant nothing to me."

I pity those like you.

Pale Horse · Jan 4, 2016

I just figured out why some Raveners are so keen on emo Kylo Ren...

They've all Ben Solo for too long!?!

Lambonius · Jan 4, 2016

Pale Horse said:
In shorty's defense, there were 3 versions of the "original"....Thanks George.

Heh...true. Han's motivations don't really change in any of the various edits though.

Joe Brody · Jan 4, 2016

Lambonius said:
You must have watched a different original trilogy than I did, because those movies are pretty clear in the fact that Han is leaving to pay Jabba because he wants Jabba to stop hiring people to kill him. Not exactly selfless honor.

Check New Hope, I think the bounty was news to Han when Greedo told him -- and based on the Han's quick sidebar with Chewie in the Cantina, I take Han at his word that he was going to tell Jabba that he'd be able to pay him back.

JasonMa said:
What evidence in TFA is there that he didn't want to make his debts right? How are the two gangs catching up to him before he makes his delivery and gets paid any different than Greedo catching up to him before he gets paid by Luke and Obi-Wan?

For me the difference, is that Solo's lost his swagger in TFA. In New Hope, the debt to Jabba sounds like the exception ("even I get boarded sometimes") but in TFA Han's mishaps have clearly become common place and there's even humor about it.

The point again is that Han went from being a cowboy to being a typical no-good suburban Dad.

One other point, Han's backstory in New Hope serves a purpose: it raises the stakes and apprehension with the viewers as to whether Han will betray Luke and Ben to the Empire. Compare that with Han's TFA backstory -- which is weak and frankly only done to provide a pretext for Han and Chewie carrying those monsters on the freighter -- which I consider one of the weakest scenes in TFA, a real Aliens knockoff. Way to be original JJ and shoehorn that scene in. Bottom line, Han went from ambiguous Bogart like figure in New Hope, to being incompetent sitcom dad in TFA.

Pale Horse said:

So glad Mr. Nationwide Hummingbird is back healthy with the Broncos. Assuming Pittsburgh gets past Cinci, the Steelers love seeing him in the playoffs.

(Joey Porter is now a linebackers coach with the Steelers)

Duaner · Jan 4, 2016

Joe Brody said:
Check New Hope, I think the bounty was news to Han when Greedo told him -- and based on the Han's quick sidebar with Chewie in the Cantina, I take Han at his word that he was going to tell Jabba that he'd be able to pay him back.

Check Empire Strikes Back:

Han: General, I gotta leave I can't stay anymore.
Riekkan: I'm sorry to hear that.
Han: Well, there's a price on my head. If I don't pay off Jabba the Hutt I'm a dead man.

Princess Leia Organa: I thought you had decided to stay.
Han Solo: Well the bounty hunter we ran into in Ord Mantell changed my mind.

JasonMa · Jan 5, 2016

I agree that the cuthulu's chasing the gang around the ship was by far the weakest scene in the film. Totally unnecessary.

Z dweller · Jan 5, 2016

What do you guys think of this article, according to which Kathleen Kennedy said that the entire cast of TFA would return for the next film?

This also supports that theory.

Is Han Solo going to get the Obi-Wan treatment in The Empire Strikes Back?

Would Ford agree to play the spirit?

Has he done that already as part of his deal with Disney?

Lambonius · Jan 5, 2016

Duaner said:
Check Empire Strikes Back:

Han: General, I gotta leave I can't stay anymore.
Riekkan: I'm sorry to hear that.
Han: Well, there's a price on my head. If I don't pay off Jabba the Hutt I'm a dead man.

Princess Leia Organa: I thought you had decided to stay.
Han Solo: Well the bounty hunter we ran into in Ord Mantell changed my mind.

Nicely served. :hat:

Pale Horse · Jan 5, 2016

Z dweller said:
What do you guys think of this article, according to which Kathleen Kennedy said that the entire cast of TFA would return for the next film?

This also supports that theory.

Is Han Solo going to get the Obi-Wan treatment in The Empire Strikes Back?

Would Ford agree to play the spirit?

Has he done that already as part of his deal with Disney?

Asking the IMPORTANT questions. I'm too lazy to find the links where Moedred and others took a stab at these. I don't believe they were answered.

Perhaps the Solo's have been smuggling dead bodies to Darth Plagueis, After all, he was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life. He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

Maybe Solo's not dead after all. Maybe him and Qui-Gong will reunite, having been brought back to life

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