Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Joe Brody

Well-known member
Z dweller said:
Is Han Solo going to get the Obi-Wan treatment in The Empire Strikes Back?

[Jokingly] I say the only Han we get is flashbacks to Han's golden years with EMO KYLO REN.

Read through the twitter posts. Hilarious. Kylo won't reach Jar Jar proportions but this is so hilarious it will gain traction. I especially love the Uncle Lando and Rancor posts. I think this is where Roundshort is coming from. Kylo is ridiculous and there are movies to cry over (for example, I cry over flicks like Pride and Prejudice and Good Will Hunting and the opening credits of Lone Survivor) and there are movies to not cry over. But I respect everyone's view and agree movies are for entertainment and entering another world. I just pull back from a world with anyone with hair like EMO Ren.

Lambonius said:
Nicely served. :hat:

(laughing) how do you figure?

Lambonius said:
You must have watched a different original trilogy than I did, because those movies are pretty clear in the fact that Han is leaving to pay Jabba because he wants Jabba to stop hiring people to kill him. Not exactly selfless honor.

You referenced movies plural. I dispatched New Hope -- which leaves Empire. Pray tell, what about the quoted exchange from Empire that supports the inference that you were trying to make that Han lacks honor?

At the end of New Hope Han is a hero, making eyes with the Princess and -- we know from Empire -- joins the Rebellion. This is relevant because we also know from Empire that the Imperial fleet was not destroyed. The existence of the fleet means that the Rebels were no longer safe on the fourth moon since the Empire knew its location. Therefore, it is safe to say that Han participated in the retreat from Yavin and was involved in the move of the main rebel base to Hoth. So along the way he encounters a bounty hunter -- big deal. This clearly prompts him to break from the Rebels at the first opportunity that doesn't compromise his friends.

Han's honor is lacking where here?

Note, on Hoth, Han again is the person that goes back and rescues Luke and saves his life by stuffing him in the gut of Taunton (which, incidentally is a cowboy move if there ever was one).
 
Last edited:

Duaner

New member
Z dweller said:
What do you guys think of this article, according to which Kathleen Kennedy said that the entire cast of TFA would return for the next film?

This also supports that theory.

Is Han Solo going to get the Obi-Wan treatment in The Empire Strikes Back?

Would Ford agree to play the spirit?

Has he done that already as part of his deal with Disney?

I think Kathleen Kennedy was just avoiding spoilers. The London premiere was before TFA's wide release. If she would have said "everybody but Harrison is returning" there would have been some backlash.

Also, Max von Sydow was there in London too. So, by that logic, his deceased character would be returning also.

The "Disney Casting" article is not reliable because it reports unconfirmed things as truth. Gugu Mbatha-Raw has not been confirmed as part of the cast, plus it is only assumed (though yes it is probably true) Benicio Del Toro may or may not be a villain. No details on his role have been officially released.

So I would say it's one and done for Harrison Ford.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Joe Brody said:
... by stuffing him in the gut of Taunton (which, incidentally is a cowboy move if there ever was one).

So, have you seen DiCaprio's flick yet?

Nevermind, back on topic.
 

Duaner

New member
Joe Brody said:
I cry over flicks like Pride and Prejudice and Good Will Hunting and the opening credits of Lone Survivor

I cried over Good Will Hunting too - it's very sad to waste two hours of my life like that.

Joe Brody said:
Note, on Hoth, Han again is the person that goes back and rescues Luke and saves his life by stuffing him in the gut of Taunton (which, incidentally is a cowboy move if there ever was one).

Well, I somehow got myself in the middle of this debate earlier, but I think I will be best served to refrain from it now. I can't wrap my head around Brody's definition of "cowboy." Stuffing Luke into a Tauntaun is a "cowboy move if there ever was one." :confused: :confused: :confused::confused: :confused:
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
Duaner,

[In my best Dude Lebowski] "I like your style, man."


Duaner said:
I cried over Good Will Hunting too - it's very sad to waste two hours of my life like that.

Don't knock Good Will Hunting. It's a good film to teach empathy and perspective. I force my kids to watch the Taster Choice scene on the park bench.

Duaner said:
Well, I somehow got myself in the middle of this debate earlier, but I think I will be best served to refrain from it now. I can't wrap my head around Brody's definition of "cowboy." Stuffing Luke into a Tauntaun is a "cowboy move if there ever was one." :confused: :confused: :confused::confused: :confused:


The guy may have been french and a holy man but it happened on the high Plains. Cowboy.

Pale Horse said:
So, have you seen DiCaprio's flick yet?

Nevermind, back on topic.

Not yet but I've read a review and know what you're talking about. (Incidentally, over new year's I had a choice: head to NYC and see the film or do a backpacking trip over a snow (and then ice covered) Mount Greylock in Mass with my oldest daughter. No choice. I grabbed the crampons and headed for blustery New England -- and thankfully no animals were harmed during the trip.

As for Han and the Taunton, I was hoping you'd come back with the clip of the scene to complement the one you posted above of Han shooting at Vader (which is one of my favorite all time whiplash moments in film -- I love it when a writer comes up with something like that and the director pulls off the immediacy of the moment. It's one of the great moments in film. Han is the man -- or was the man before TFA).
 

Lambonius

New member
I never said Han lacks honor in general, I was arguing that his reasons for wanting to pay off Jabba specifically are all about saving his own hide, not because paying off Jabba is "the right thing to do." That's absurd; Jabba is a scumbag.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Joe Brody said:
As for Han and the Taunton, I was hoping you'd come back with the clip of the scene to complement the one you posted above of Han shooting at Vader.

This scene is hardly a western.

tumblr_n538n5Byyv1qg4blro1_500.gif


But how odd that the non-jedi above can now be compared to the non-jedi below.

a1eedab0-8a43-0133-9fe2-0e7c926a42af.gif


Maybe there's a crossover in the works? You never know with Disney.

tumblr_o06mrunMq01qh2axio1_500.png


Boy, as a mod, I've really thrashed this particular page all to hell. Sorry folks.

Back to the regularly scheduled discussion about Star Wars: VII, TFA
 

JasonMa

Active member
Joe Brody said:
You referenced movies plural. I dispatched New Hope -- which leaves Empire. Pray tell, what about the quoted exchange from Empire that supports the inference that you were trying to make that Han lacks honor?
What about the exchange from The Force Awakens supports the inference that Han lacks honor any more than the exchanges from ANH or ESB do?
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
JasonMa said:
What about the exchange from The Force Awakens supports the inference that Han lacks honor any more than the exchanges from ANH or ESB do?

My hang-up is that TFA exposition has Han not just mucking up multiple deals but also jokes about his shortcomings as if they were the norm. This is a big departure from Episode IV and V Han where he had swagger and was just dogged by the one mis-step with Jabba's cargo. I took issue with Lamonious's "Not exactly selfless honor" line because I don't think Han was motivated by fear to repay Jabba -- I think it was his intention all along.

Taking a step back, the diminution of Harrison Ford's Han Solo and Indiana Jones characters in the 80's from a bad-ass rogue to luckier-than-good-buffoon personifies the end of the big screen hero archetype. Compare the Han we see in the Cantina, on the Death Star, on Hoth, on Bespin to the first blind and then bumbling Han we see in Jabba's palace and on Endor. Compare Indy sitting with Belloq in the Marhala Bar to Indy pouting with his Dad on the Zeppelin out of Germany. In both franchises Ford's characters start bad ass but end up not so much. TFA seems to be a new underserved low. . . . .

To quote Paul Simon, "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?"

Anyway -- back to the main topic: why did JJ Abrams foist Kylo Ren on us? While not as clever as Tarantino's analysis behind the true meaning of 'Top Gun', I think I've figured out JJ Abrams twisted plan behind the ridiculous Kylo Ren and Han Solo's pathetic ending. George Lucas doesn't like to admit it but let's face it -- Harrison Ford is Lucas's Bobby De Niro. Whether it be American Graffiti, Star Wars or Indiana Jones, Harrison Ford is George Lucas's onscreen avatar. As a huge geek, JJ Abrams must have been crushed by Lucas's Star War's prequels -- with the silly Anakin Skywalker whining about his emotions. Now bear in mind, we know from the Star Trek reboot that JJ Abrams knows how to deliver a flawless reboot. So why (and this is what has been gnawing at me) would he make the same mistake twice with the introduction of ridiculous Anakin-ish Kylo Ren?

The answer: TFA is the geek's revenge on George Lucas for him foisting the prequels on us. Think of it like this: TFA Han Solo = George Lucas. Kylo Ren = the prequels. Kylo Ren dispatches Han, just as the prequels took down Lucas's stature in the industry. Watch the Lucas interview Moedred just posted -- Lucas loves to tell us that Star Wars is about more than space ships. Well I only partially seriously submit that the TFA is about something more too. Now TFA provides a new mythos: the demise of the fallen creator. Et tu, Brute?

Pale Horse said:
This scene is hardly a western.

Speaking of the Lucas interview, in it he talks about how Star Wars was a vehicle to re-introduce all the mythologies. As I've said, Han is a cowboy. I submit that the opening scene of Han and Luke on patrol riding Tauntons is meant to evoke cowboys riding out to check the fencing. Don't get hung up the details and Han's use of the light saber -- I'm focused on the survival aspect of using the carcass of a beast of burden for warmth.
 
Last edited:

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Joe Brody said:
As I've said, Han is a cowboy. I submit that the opening scene of Han and Luke on patrol riding Tauntons is meant to evoke cowboys riding out to check the fencing. Don't get hung up the details and Han's use of the light saber -- I'm focused on the survival aspect of using the carcass of a beast of burden for warmth.

Your starting to give mercenaries a bad name. Talk like this will wind up forcing me to break down TFA far more than it deserves. But I see where you're going with this and I wonder, if ANH revived mythology to a new generation, where do we go in 2016 to restoring the next generation to understanding the world is bigger than themselves?

Your insight yet again has given me much to ponder on.
 

Le Saboteur

Active member
3.gif


Despite being irrevocably linked to Star Wars (no, don't ask), I've never been much of a fan. I've seen the prequels once in the theatre; haven't seen the originals in almost twenty years; and have never read a book/comic/whatever that dealt with the expanded universe or even the original characters. I'm okay with this. So it was with some reluctance that I was dragged off to the theatre over opening weekend.

That said, The Force Awakens was a solid piece of movie making. Rey was fabulous. Finn was annoying. So much so that I'm glad that he's not a Jedi. I even liked Kylo Ren right up until he took his helmet off. By the time they got to that cantina-like place I couldn't help but think "Is that the same lake they filmed Harry Potter on? It certainly looks like it." Oh, and I guess Han Yolo and Chewbacca are now comedic relief?

Speaking of Han Yolo: How many additional X-Wing pilots is he indirectly responsible for killing by failing a rather simple sabotage mission? I was dearly hoping that Kylo would end my pain by cleaving Yolo in twain. Hey, that rhymes.

As something of a trained swordsman, I have a massive problem with the final fight as the Starkiller planet is collapsing. Force attuned or not, Ren should have made relatively short work of both of them. But then R2-D2 came out of his low power mode, Skywalker finally(!) made an appearance and I forgot all about it.

The guy in the above gif was cool too. But what's the point of encumbering troops with body armor if a crappy blaster pistol will put you down in a single shot?
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
I've figured it out.

Le Saboteur said:
Despite being irrevocably linked to Star Wars (no, don't ask), I've never been much of a fan.

it all makes sense now. Le Saboteur is GEORGE LUCAS


tumblr_inline_nh6c7zIBPw1rttpge.gif


...chuckle...
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Advice from the original cast at 4:38:
Carrie Fisher: "Don't go through the crew like wildfire."
Harrison Ford: "Whaaaaaat?"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O0CgQ1tsFUY#t=04m38s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Top