Special Edition Truck Chase?

Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
Michael said:
But the replacement line sounds like he's giving an order while relaxing in a bubble bath or something, knowing he has to leave soon by is in no real hurry.
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Ha Ha. Oh, man! Thanks for the good laugh!:D

agentsands77 said:
I highly doubt there will be lots of changes, but you never know.
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Just came across this in "The Indiana Jones Diaries" supplement of the Indy Empire issue...

Dennis Muren (re: Doom):
"Some of the effects really hold up today, but if we ever do special editions, I'd like to do some of the shots over again..."

The new DVDs are labeled SPECIAL EDITIONS but there's nothing special about them!
Even though he wasn't involved in the original "Raiders" cliff shot, maybe 'twas D.Muren who pushed for the redux?
 
Dewy9

Dewy9

New member
I like these CGI touch ups. I've got no problem with the SW: SE and there are a handful of shots (a lot of plane crash explosions) which look pretty bad.
 
Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
B B C 3

*BUMP*

"Raiders" is playing on BBC 3 at this very moment and it's the version with the CG cliff dive. (Hopefully it will play again soon for anyone wants to record it because it won't be on the Blu-ray.)
 
Crack that whip

Crack that whip

New member
Has there been any information published about this change anywhere yet, in the years since it first appeared? I mean other than the shot itself being seen on television, and the online discussion of it in places like this - has there been any "behind the scenes" info on new work done for the movie put out in a book or a documentary segment or anything? ILM interviews, anything...
 
russds

russds

New member
One thing I really enjoyed in the older films, which, for me was missing in KOTCS was the use of matte special effects. For me, that's something that's part of the Indy palette. The wide angle shots of the Pankot palace for example, yes quiet fake looking, very Indy. When the CG is thrown in the mix, it all of a sudden doesn't have the Indy feel to it - for me anyway. I have the 2008 version of Raiders, and it's the matte version, and I like it. Although I must say i do like the addition of shadows in the CG version, that is a nice touch.

I forgot where I read this, but I read that Spielberg was hesitant to show Raiders on IMAX in fear the mistakes would just be bigger, for example the glass when Indy confronts the cobra. Which to me kind of indicates his preference is the absolute original, glass, matte, mistakes and all.
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
I never had a single objection to ANY of the Raiders matte paintings...they all looked superb to me.

The problem with the Gobler cliff dive was always the physics/gravity of the jeep/puppets.

I don't remember any real issues with the mattes in the other films, (the quality), excepting the lines not matching/shaking and the generally poor 60's Star Trek effects in Crusade.

What I'll be on the lookout for is whether or not you can still see the reflections of the blue fabric on the slab they move opening The Well of Souls!
 
Toht's Arm

Toht's Arm

Active member
During the preproduction of KotCS, I seem to remember reading that Spielberg had considered giving all the CGI matte paintings a brushstroke-type texture, so that they matched the earlier films. It's a pity they didn't go with that. I think it would have looked kinda cool...
 
Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
Crack that whip said:
Has there been any information published about this change anywhere yet, in the years since it first appeared? I mean other than the shot itself being seen on television, and the online discussion of it in places like this - has there been any "behind the scenes" info on new work done for the movie put out in a book or a documentary segment or anything? ILM interviews, anything...
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Four years later and I've never read or heard ANY official word about the cliff change (though it's possible I missed something).

At the 30th anniversary screenings of the remastered print, it was reported here that the shot was back to the matte painting. The September 12th, 2011 screening in L.A. had a Q&A session with Spielberg and Ford but the subject doesn't seem to have been discussed at all. What a missed opportunity!:(
russds said:
One thing I really enjoyed in the older films, which, for me was missing in KOTCS was the use of matte special effects. For me, that's something that's part of the Indy palette. The wide angle shots of the Pankot palace for example, yes quiet fake looking, very Indy. When the CG is thrown in the mix, it all of a sudden doesn't have the Indy feel to it - for me anyway. I have the 2008 version of Raiders, and it's the matte version, and I like it. Although I must say i do like the addition of shadows in the CG version, that is a nice touch.
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What appeals to me about the CG cliff dive is that it's new/extra footage!(y)
 
Henry W Jones

Henry W Jones

New member
Stoo said:
Four years later and I've never read or heard ANY official word about the cliff change (though it's possible I missed something).

At the 30th anniversary screenings of the remastered print, it was reported here that the shot was back to the matte painting. The September 12th, 2011 screening in L.A. had a Q&A session with Spielberg and Ford but the subject doesn't seem to have been discussed at all. What a missed opportunity!:(
What appeals to me about the CG cliff dive is that it's new/extra footage!(y)
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New footage in a 30+ year old film is unwelcome in my eyes. Those movies have been great for all this time and changing them is unnecessary and just plain ridiculous. While I don't like all of SW changes they were a necessary evil to be able to make the prequels and for them to look consistant with OT. Indy doesn't need that at all. I am always down for extra footage from when the films were made but new footage is something I don't want added to my classic film. Let's put a CGI Brando in Godfather 2 and 3. (n) Let's change the flying scenes in the Wizard of Oz to CGI as well. (n) When's it gonna stop?
 
AndyLGR

AndyLGR

Active member
Was this change only evident in some of the cable broadcasts of Raiders?

If so and it wasn't included on the dvd or blu ray sets then why and how did this version get released?
 
Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
Hey, Andy. So far, there has been no information about why & how and it's driving me bonkers!

Yes, the new cliff shot is only present in HD broadcasts and was not released commercially. (Someone here said that it's on the 2003 release but that is incorrect.) From the reports in this thread, it was shown on both the USA Network and Sci-Fi Channel in May 2008. I also saw it on BBC3 in August 2012.

However, there is a possibility that the change was made sometime well before 2008. The first HD broadcast of "Raiders" was on the now-defunct UPN (United Paramount Network). They started showing HD programming in c.Oct. 2003 and the channel folded in Sept. 2006 so it would've aired sometime between then. It's possible that this version is the same because a Paramount channel would be the likely place to premiere such a thing. (If it's not the same, then that would make *3* different HD versions of "Raiders".)

If anyone out there has the UPN broadcast, could you check out the cliff scene, please?:whip:
 
UKFilmNerd

UKFilmNerd

Active member
Hi all.

I dug up this thread via Google as I was interested in the CGI addition to the Raiders truck chase. I got out my HD rip that I've kept for years and uploaded a comparison video onto YouTube last year.

I was thinking about writing an article for my blog but there seems to be no solid information on this CGI update anywhere apart from discussion and speculation and helpful transmission dates in this thread.

Have we ever learnt anything more in the last ten years?
 
C

Citizen_Kane

Member
Thanks for posting this! Still it remains a mystery as to why, how, what, where and when this change was made. Hoping to see some of this background information surfacing one day.
 
AustralianClimber

AustralianClimber

Member
There's never been anything officially said I don't ever expect there to be. It was a decision that was made by someone high up the chain and then later reversed by someone, also high up the chain - at sometime in the 00s. Short of getting ahold of some friendly guy who was a kid interning at Lucasfilm at the time, I wouldn't ever expect to learn of the details.

Has anyone tried comparing the transfer from this broadcast to that of the 2003 DVD? Rumour was that it was going to be in the DVD release but ultimately got pulled before it. Somehow, a few years later, it slipped through the gatekeeper and made it to a few HDTV screenings. Anyway, if they seem to share the same transfer characteristics, it might lend a little credence to that theory.
 
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