Favorite Indy Villain

Who's your favorite? Why?

  • Belloq

    Votes: 67 47.5%
  • Toht

    Votes: 27 19.1%
  • Mola Ram

    Votes: 34 24.1%
  • Donovan

    Votes: 9 6.4%
  • Vogel

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • Spalko

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Total voters
    141

mattzilla2010

New member
Darth Vile said:
I always felt that TOD needed the Chatter Lal character to be a more obvious baddie a la Moff Tarkin, and then Mola Ram would have been a more effective and scary stooge/dog on a leash type villain.
Oh, that would have been great! Now that I think about it, Lal is really underused in that movie. With more screentime, that slimy little bugger could have easily been my favorite Indy villain.
 

Daley

New member
^ Ah man, you're right! I actually forgot about him, and he did play a pretty big part in the whole scheme too. I feel his character would've probably been much more memorable if his deleted scenes (which we know were filmed) were kept in tact.
I'd LOVE to see the whole exchange between him and Willie, after she escapes from the Thuggee guards and makes her way back to Indy's room - only to be caught and betrayed by Lal...
..perhaps we will see them, one day...:confused:
 

Darth Vile

New member
Daley said:
^ Ah man, you're right! I actually forgot about him, and he did play a pretty big part in the whole scheme too. I feel his character would've probably been much more memorable if his deleted scenes (which we know were filmed) were kept in tact.
I'd LOVE to see the whole exchange between him and Willie, after she escapes from the Thuggee guards and makes her way back to Indy's room - only to be caught and betrayed by Lal...
..perhaps we will see them, one day...:confused:

mattzilla2010 said:
Oh, that would have been great! Now that I think about it, Lal is really underused in that movie. With more screentime, that slimy little bugger could have easily been my favorite Indy villain.

Yes indeed - He doesn't even have a proper death scene...
:(
 

ArnoldTohtFan

New member
Toht because he had the best costume in the entire movie, had the creepiest haircut I've ever seen, and was just plain badass :cool:

Oh yeah, I had a question and didn't know where else to post it. During the bar fight, after Jones fires his first shot at the machine gunner, Marion throws a punch at Toht but she misses and knocks off his fedora. For the rest of the fight Toht is without his hat, and when he flees the burning tavern, it is presumably left in the bar. Yet when we see him later in Egypt, he has his hat back! How can this be explained?
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
ArnoldTohtFan said:
Toht because he had the best costume in the entire movie, had the creepiest haircut I've ever seen, and was just plain badass :cool:

Oh yeah, I had a question and didn't know where else to post it. During the bar fight, after Jones fires his first shot at the machine gunner, Marion throws a punch at Toht but she misses and knocks off his fedora. For the rest of the fight Toht is without his hat, and when he flees the burning tavern, it is presumably left in the bar. Yet when we see him later in Egypt, he has his hat back! How can this be explained?

Just like Indy's hats, it's presumably not the same one.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
ArnoldTohtFan said:
For the rest of the fight Toht is without his hat, and when he flees the burning tavern, it is presumably left in the bar. Yet when we see him later in Egypt, he has his hat back! How can this be explained?

Attila the Professor said:
Just like Indy's hats, it's presumably not the same one.

Toht might have known this hat shop in Kathmandu...

Hatshop-KathmanduNepal.jpg
 
Montana Smith said:
Toht might have known this hat shop in Kathmandu...

Hatshop-KathmanduNepal.jpg


...maybe to keep his pate straight in the weather!

Toht, Belloq and Dietrich cover such great villainous ground. They never quite achieved the same synergy.
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Toht, Belloq and Dietrich cover such great villainous ground. They never quite achieved the same synergy.

You're right. The three of them were formidable opponents, though each had different motivations:

Belloq had no interest in the Nazis, just the Ark.

Dietrich was a man of duty with a job to do.

Toht was just having fun being nasty, with little interest in the Ark itself (at the end finding it hilarious that there was nothing in that shiny box).
 

EvilEmperorZoRG

New member
Toht is my vote, but I love them all. Belloq was actually the best because he was....the bad version of Indy as he actually told in ROTLA.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
Don't know if anyone mentioned Colonel Dovchenko.

I'm not saying he's my favourite, but he's a great movie henchman, I think.

Cold, ruthless and efficient. And, of course, huge.

While everyone compares his character to Pat Roach's henchmen, its interesting to compare him to Vogel too, who he also - he's a Colonel who's the second main villain in the film, like him. That said, I'd say it was most definitely the Pat Roach villains they had in mind when coming up with this character, I think the fact that he's a Colonel like Vogel is coincidental, I doubt they had it in their minds to come up with a character reminiscent of him.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
Don't know if anyone mentioned Colonel Dovchenko.

I'm not saying he's my favourite, but he's a great movie henchman, I think.

Cold, ruthless and efficient. And, of course, huge.

While everyone compares his character to Pat Roach's henchmen, its interesting to compare him to Vogel too - he's a Colonel who's the second main villain in the film, like him. That said, I'd say it was most definitely the Pat Roach villains they had in mind when coming up with this character, I think the fact that he's a Colonel like Vogel is coincidental, I doubt they had it in their minds to come up with a character reminiscent of him.

Anyway, its interesting to watch the two operate. Vogel is sadistic and enjoys hurting and killing people, whereas I think Dovchenko just sees that stuff as part of the job and doesn't take either pleasure or displeasure from it. He just coldly does what needs to be done.

I wonder how intelligent he is? His character in the film seems pretty stupid (he's very slow to react to Indy's attacks during their fight, and in particular falling for Indy's "give me a second to recover so I can grab my ha-GREAT BIG LOG TO HIT YOU WITH!!" trick was very stupid indeed), but thats not consistent with being a military officer.
 
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Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
I don't think it's just that Vogel is sadistic, though. That's Toht's bag. The variant that Vogel introduces is that career officer who relishes the opportunity to get his hands dirty again, like in the old days. I think the moment where he's loosening his collar during the tank sequence suggests this. The sadistic edge is there, but it's not the most interesting part, I would argue.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
I don't think it's just that Vogel is sadistic, though. That's Toht's bag. The variant that Vogel introduces is that career officer who relishes the opportunity to get his hands dirty again, like in the old days. I think the moment where he's loosening his collar during the tank sequence suggests this. The sadistic edge is there, but it's not the most interesting part, I would argue.

Yes, Vogel has a bit of history to him, going by his medals.

Sporting both 1914 1st and 2nd Class Iron Crosses indicates he saw action.

The Blood Order Medal indicates one of the following: he was either a Party Member who took part in the Beer Hall putsch; or had rendered outstanding services to the Nazi party during its formative years; or had received it for outstanding service during the Austrian Anschluss of March 1938.

"The award became steeped in a deliberately cultivated mystique which guaranteed the wearer special privileges wherever he went." (Himmler?s Black Order: A History of the SS 1923-1945 (1997), Robin Lumsden.
 

Raider Cat

New member
Hmmm....

I've always liked Belloq and Toht.

Belloq was just really cool to me. I don't have more than that! :p

Toht had a sadistic nature that wasn't seen again in any other character. Wait- no it was seen in other characters, but Toht was all the way. I mean, Mola Ram was horrible and evil, but he did it because he was doing it for his religion/the Thugge. Toht simply enjoyed it. And for that he gets points from me.

But, in terms of villiany, Donavan deserves to be mentioned. After all, he shot Henry in cold blood to get what he wanted. Kinda frightning to think about if you were on Indy's side.

:hat:
 

oki9Sedo

New member
Attila the Professor said:
I don't think it's just that Vogel is sadistic, though. That's Toht's bag. The variant that Vogel introduces is that career officer who relishes the opportunity to get his hands dirty again, like in the old days. I think the moment where he's loosening his collar during the tank sequence suggests this. The sadistic edge is there, but it's not the most interesting part, I would argue.

Oh I agree, I don't think Vogel is nearly as sadistic as Toht. But I do think he is sadistic. Dovchenko I don't think is sadistic at all: with him he just does what it takes to get the job done and he doesn't take pleasure or displeasure from hurting people.

eg. backhanding Indy and then raising his fist to beat him after being told to "Drop dead!", I think, didn't give him any pleasure as it would Vogel. That said, it definitely didn't give him displeasure. He may not be sadistic but he is cold and lacks empathy. Its a different kind of villainy.

What are your opinions on Dovchenko, Attila?
 
Attila the Professor said:
I don't think it's just that Vogel is sadistic, though. That's Toht's bag. The variant that Vogel introduces is that career officer who relishes the opportunity to get his hands dirty again, like in the old days.
This turns out to be a gross miscalculation, as he's nowhere near as his stamina isn't nearly as high as it would have been when he earned the two iron crosses.
Attila the Professor said:
I think the moment where he's loosening his collar during the tank sequence suggests this.
That was slightly ridiculous because it can be inferred that he fully expected the many soldiers battling his nemesis to fail.
 

Brooke Logan

New member
Belloq is my favorite because I think he's the most interesting.

But I like all the villains on the list, and I also liked Vogel from Last Crusade.
 
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