Indy V Settings: What locations are left?

Pick up to 3 locales you'd like to see in Indy V, not necessarily as a group


  • Total voters
    30

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Two more wars (one of them lasted ten times longer than the Winter War), and twenty years of Cold War tensions. Anybody who knows all that stuff would never suggest that the Soviets should be digging around in Finland, or Sweden, or wherever, because of something that happened during the Winter War. To me, that spells ignorance to an E.

But allow me to note once more that I never thought that the idea of the Soviets digging around in Finland, Sweden or wherever was something that should never be done. Artistic licenses and all that. I simply objected to your justifications for it. Less given, the better. It's exactly why they got away with stuff like Nazis in Egypt in Raiders. Or those pesky Russkies doing something that would have turned the Cold War pretty hot pretty soon at the beginning of KotCS.


And, oh, Finnish mythology =/= Norse Mythology.
 

Z dweller

Well-known member
Finn said:
Two more wars (one of them lasted ten times longer than the Winter War), and twenty years of Cold War tensions. Anybody who knows all that stuff would never suggest that the Soviets should be digging around in Finland, or Sweden, or wherever, because of something that happened during the Winter War.
Once again, you are misinterpreting my words in a vain effort to prove your point.
We are not talking about history as it happened here, just fiction.

And in the context of fiction, I don't see why the the Soviets wouldn't try to retrieve a deadly weapon prototype concocted in the 30s, if they thought it could make them stronger in the 60s, specifically for the purposes of the Cold War.
Particularly if they thought they could make that weapon even more deadly by also capturing the macguffin.
Finn said:
But allow me to note once more that I never thought that the idea of the Soviets digging around in Finland, Sweden or wherever was something that should never be done. Artistic licenses and all that. I simply objected to your justifications for it. Less given, the better. It's exactly why they got away with stuff like Nazis in Egypt in Raiders. Or those pesky Russkies doing something that would have turned the Cold War pretty hot pretty soon at the beginning of KotCS.
Yes, you made your point, and I already acknowledged that my forgotten bunker story is convoluted.
On this point I concede, but not on your petulant, unjustified accusations of ignorance.
Finn said:
And, oh, Finnish mythology =/= Norse Mythology.
I know that, dear boy. I never said otherwise.
You are clutching at straws.

Before we turned this into a long winded discussion, in my OP I just tried to imply a number of possible topics or plot points: Norse Mythology, Viking trails, some kind of Russian affair dating back to the Winter War.

If I'd known you would nitpick every word, I would have listed them with bullet points. :rolleyes:
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Z dweller said:
And in the context of fiction, I don't see why the the Soviets wouldn't try to retrieve a deadly weapon prototype concocted in the 30s, if they thought it could make them stronger in the 60s, specifically for the purposes of the Cold War.
Particularly if they thought they could make that weapon even more deadly by also capturing the macguffin.
You'd just have to bend history pretty badly, because there's not an inch of territory that was held by Finland after WWII that belonged to Russia before the war. Plenty the other way around, though. Unless you're suggesting the Russians established some secret weapons lab behind the Finnish lines during the Winter War?

Now that is a plot idea I would deride pretty heavily, pulp or no pulp. :rolleyes:

Z dweller said:
And in the context of fiction, I don't see why the the Norse Mythology, Viking trails, some kind of Russian affair dating back to the Winter War.
There still isn't much that connects the third one to the previous two. At least without very liberal rewrites of WWII history. And as far as I'm aware, the IJ realm's history still mostly follows our own.

---

EDIT: Okay, I thought about it a bit. This whole issue of something happening during the Winter War has the historian in me hyperventilating pretty badly, because I think it goes far beyond even the usual artistic licenses. If one needs an excuse to send Indy to Northern Europe, you can find one without tying the WWII into it. But if we absolutely have to make that connection, here's how it could work...

Whatever this thing is the Russians want, it was somewhere in the Nordic countries even before the WWII. So no weapons labs. Instead it's some ancient Norse artifact, site or something like that, and it's been there for centuries, if not longer. And to get one-up on Hitler, Stalin wanted it, badly. Cue the Winter War (and those other wars no one ever remembers). History happens, and the Russians fail.

To add to the mess, Hitler also tries to seize it. After all he conquered Norway and was pretty chummy with Finland. But something happened that made him fail too (this is were the artist has a free reign).

And now it's the 60s. Khrushchev isn't as nuts as Stalin, and he doesn't wish to risk getting more Commie butt kicked by starting another war. So he simply dispatches a token force to the site that has a free reign while the local authorities look the other way.
 
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Z dweller

Well-known member
Finn said:
There still isn't much that connects the third one to the previous two.
No, there isn't. And I never suggested there should be.
I was just listing ideas that I thought could be used, independently of each other.

Finn said:
here's how it could work...
Yes, I like the idea of a Norse artifact.
Although I didn't elaborate, I meant something along those lines when I mentioned Norse mythology.

Hopefully now we have all our ducks lined up. Are you listening, Spielberg?
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Z dweller said:
Hopefully now we have all our ducks lined up. Are you listening, Spielberg?
For what it's worth, my apologies for being a little caustic.

Then again, I never would have come up with that plot outline if I didn't find something funny with your original notion. Or if you hadn't argued me over it. To paraphrase Kierkegaard, "Sometimes better ideas are born out of conflict than harmony."
 

Z dweller

Well-known member
Finn said:
For what it's worth, my apologies for being a little caustic.
Thank you Finn, apology accepted and by all means keep me in line when I'm wrong. I always welcome your insights. :D
Finn said:
Then again, I never would have come up with that plot outline if I didn't find something funny with your original notion. Or if you hadn't argued me over it. To paraphrase Kierkegaard, "Sometimes better ideas are born out of conflict than harmony."
Indeed! (y)
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
I really think Central Africa should be explored in some way. The literary antecedents of Indy held Africa to be the Dark Continent, unknown and ripe for adventure.

I also think finally seeing Indy in British Honduras, or in Marrakesh, if briefly would be nice touches.

Hong Kong might be interesting as well. A lot of great adventure films of the 50s such as Reagan's Hong Kong, and Soldier of Fortune - both of which inspired Indy greatly - took place there. So did China - another of Indy's antecedents in film.

No more Jungle stuff. No more Desert.

I would love to just see some beautiful terrain in the next movie.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Attila the Professor said:
I'd be all in favor of sidestepping anything Norse - which is overfamiliar - in lieu of some time with the Finns.
One drawback of tapping into Finnish mythologies is the lack of tangible MacGuffins. Well, the stories are full of powerful magical items like the lyra (or kantele, as we call it) of Väinämöinen, but sending Indy after something like that would still feel kind of obscure - from the global audience's POV, I mean. It'd take some infodumping to get people up to speed, and - generally speaking - less time spent infodumping, the better.

Well, there is ONE that's majorly obvious, it pretty much shows up every time somebody writes contemporary fiction about the subject, and for that reason it feels beaten to death. But again, maybe it's just me, and it'd actually be fresh to most people not so versed on this stuff.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Raiders112390 said:
I really think Central Africa should be explored in some way. The literary antecedents of Indy held Africa to be the Dark Continent, unknown and ripe for adventure.

I also think finally seeing Indy in British Honduras, or in Marrakesh, if briefly would be nice touches.

---
No more Jungle stuff. No more Desert.
Funny. No jungle stuff but you want Central Africa or British Honduras. No desert but you want Marrakesh in Morocco. Maybe Indy 5 should be set in the Arctic without showing any snow? :rolleyes:
Raiders112390 said:
Hong Kong might be interesting as well. A lot of great adventure films of the 50s such as Reagan's Hong Kong, and Soldier of Fortune - both of which inspired Indy greatly - took place there. So did China - another of Indy's antecedents in film.
None of the film, "China", takes place in Hong Kong nor does ?a lot of great adventure films of the 50s?. Apart from the 2 you mention (neither of which deserve to be called ?great?) there isn?t ?a lot? more from that decade. A small handful of other ?50s adventure flicks are set in China or elsewhere in The Orient but there?s no abundance of Hong Kong ones. (English language films I'm talkin' 'bout, as you undoubtedly are.)

---
That said, I?d love to see Hong Kong in the 5th film; Indy against the Commies with some British involvement...

...as well as some SNOW somewhere/anywhere!
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Stoo said:
Funny. No jungle stuff but you want Central Africa or British Honduras. No desert but you want Marrakesh in Morocco. Maybe Indy 5 should be set in the Arctic without showing any snow? :rolleyes:

You raise good points, and I've skirted falling into the same trap you suggest, what with my affinity for a West African scenario that would almost certainly entail a visit to Timbuktu, in the Sahel. (Also, for that matter, a city that likely can't be filmed in, but if memory serves Venice is the only place in the series thus far that has played itself.)

But Senegal, Ghana, and Nigeria, to name three that, to my knowledge, could be suitable for filming, offer tropical grasslands of a sort largely not explored yet. (The Mayapore village is similar, but soon gives way to a rainforest again.)

world_biomes-900x681.jpg


Finn said:
One drawback of tapping into Finnish mythologies is the lack of tangible MacGuffins. Well, the stories are full of powerful magical items like the lyra (or kantele, as we call it) of Väinämöinen, but sending Indy after something like that would still feel kind of obscure - from the global audience's POV, I mean. It'd take some infodumping to get people up to speed, and - generally speaking - less time spent infodumping, the better.

Well, there is ONE that's majorly obvious, it pretty much shows up every time somebody writes contemporary fiction about the subject, and for that reason it feels beaten to death. But again, maybe it's just me, and it'd actually be fresh to most people not so versed on this stuff.

I found the artifact in question, which Wikipedia suggests is similar to both some versions of the Grail and <I>Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom</I>'s treatment of the Sankara stone as something that affected the well-being of its village. Though that's not all it does...

Wikipedia said:
The Sampo has been interpreted in many ways: a world pillar or world tree, a compass or astrolabe, a chest containing a treasure, a Byzantine coin die, a decorated Vendel period shield, a Christian relic, etc. In the Kalevala, compiler Lönnrot interpreted it to be a quern or mill of some sort that made flour, salt, and gold out of thin air. The world pillar hypothesis, originally developed by historian of religions Uno Harva and the linguist Eemil Nestor Setälä in the early 20th century, is the most widely accepted one.

As someone entirely unfamiliar with the Sampo until 5 minutes ago, it sounds like an artifact that can operate on some different thematic territory than what we've had up to now in the film series, though does trade on the omphalos, or navel of the world, idea that Rob MacGregor's novels returned to time and again. <I>Indiana Jones and the Center of the World</I>?

As for exposition time, I think Raiders and Last Crusade probably spent more time on straight description of what their MacGuffins were than the other 2, despite working with more familiar objects, but even if that's true, your point stands.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Attila the Professor said:
I found the artifact in question, which Wikipedia suggests is similar to both some versions of the Grail and <I>Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom</I>'s treatment of the Sankara stone as something that affected the well-being of its village. Though that's not all it does...
That's the one. Didn't want to just spell it out, because I figured it's a good way to see whether it's really as obvious as I thought.

Attila the Professor said:
As someone entirely unfamiliar with the Sampo until 5 minutes ago, it sounds like an artifact that can operate on some different thematic territory than what we've had up to now in the film series, though does trade on the omphalos, or navel of the world, idea that Rob MacGregor's novels returned to time and again. <I>Indiana Jones and the Center of the World</I>?
I actually have to disagree with Wikipedia about what it calls its "most widely accepted" interpretation. Well, it may be correct for scholarly circles, but around 90% of the time it appears in fiction, it very much follows the Lönnrotian interpretation. In other words, it's simply a machine that can create riches out of nothing (most commonly gold, salt and grain) - not unlike the Horn of Plenty. If you asked a random Finn to describe it to you, this is what s/he would most likely say. And were it to be used as a MacGuffin in a feature film aimed for all audiences around the world, the odds are it would be depicted like that.

Probably not the least of reasons for people going with Lönnrot is that it sure is exposition-friendly. Makes it possible to explain in two sentences what it is and what it does. Though it would make a nice twist I suppose - make it appear as if our hero was after a very tangible artifact, then reveal it to be something else altogether in the end.
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
I am interested in the question of the sorts of places that this fifth film could go that would broaden Indy's world and, to a lesser extent, possibly broaden an audience's too, giving them a story set in a place where we mightn't expect, or mightn't even know what it's like.

You tee this up so nicely!

First, I qualify my response: I can't say I have read all of the posts in this thread (and none of the links), so I apologize for any redundancy.


First, a word or two on academic environments
I will start by echoing (at least Olliana) the sentiment that we will NOT see college scenes. In my view, there was too much college in CS and those scenes were the most inert part of the film (even with Mutt's cycle scene). I bet Spielberg and Kennedy nix any college environments to help avoid the CS taint. Two possible exceptions: (1) A Mad-Men-esque '60's style modernism campus, like Mies van der Rohe's Illinois Institue of Technology, would be a compelling backdrop to show Indy 'out-of-time' or (more interestingly) keeping up with the times and actually awakening liberal global thinking in his young beef-fed, crew-cut American students so they don't end up being 'goose-stepping morons.' (2) Oxford -- specifically a great space like the Natural History Museum. I think 1960's UK, with the young Beatles, could be a location -- and an old Indy teaching in an old Victorian building to young English Mod students could be an interesting dynamic that would 'broaden' the Indy-verse.

Location 'Logic'
I think there are some intangibles that have to be weighed -- specifically the preferences of Disney, Kennedy, Spielberg and even Ford (in my analysis, I'm not factoring Koepp's preferences).

Starting with Disney, I think Disney is mindful of the locations of the other current movies on their slate so as to minimize concentration risk and possible audience fatigue. So while Disney's Jungle Book didn't stop Marvel from setting some key scenes in Africa [Avengers 2 and Civil War (and 'yes', I know Lagos was actually Atlanta)], I think having a presumably Africa-centric film already on the docket (Black Panther slated for a 2/18 release) could deter Disney from going Africa-heavy again so soon. On the other hand, I know the Obama Adminstration spent time encouraging US consumer product and other companies to invest in Africa, and while I don't buy into the Obama-to-be-the-next-head-of-Disney rumors, I wouldn't be surprised if Disney had received entreaties to do more in (mainly Central) Africa. I do like the Professor's Ghana storyline -- the Ghanaians are some of my favorite people on the planet (Niger and Congo are too dicey -- though a very cool 1960's story could be set in the Congo).

China
So Disney wants to sell tickets -- which takes us to China (and appeasing the Chinese government, so the film can actually be shown there).

Stoo said:
. . . .I?d love to see Hong Kong in the 5th film; Indy against the Commies with some British involvement...

I doubt we will see Hong Kong. China does not like anything that reminds people of the colonial past. I remember there was a restuarant in Shanghai that got in trouble for either naming itself 'The French Concession' or saying it was in 'The French Concession.' That's a total no go. Trust me, we won't see any 1960 vintage Art Weber's in Hong Kong sporting Her Majesty's livery. In the same vein, I bet we don't see the Philippines and/or Vietnam (unless it puts Vietnam in a bad light). Plus, keeping with my prior Disney logic, there is a live action Mulan planned for 11/18.

Stoo said:
...as well as some SNOW somewhere/anywhere!

I'm pretty much with the crowd on this one. Further to my observations above, Kennedy and Marshal are mountain folks (Telluride), so I wouldn't be surprised with snow -- though I don't think it will be in Finland because folks there are so damn touchy about everything. They invent IKEA and think they know everything (just kidding on the IKEA thing). I think Frozen is sufficiently in the backround, so that's not a consideration -- but something tells me Scandanavia won't cut it.

I realize I have ruled out more than in. Simply put, I like:

U.K./London/Edinburgh/Ireland
West/East Germany
Greece/Crete/Malta
Canadian Rockies/Alaska
Japan
Cuba & Panama Canal
Galapogos/Fiji/Easter Island

I think we get a Venice equivalent. In other words, an on-location shot that will, to use the Professor's phrase, "broaden" the audience's world. I look at Wes Anderson's success in Grand Budaphest and wonder if they find another Eastern European setting that would really transport people.
 
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Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Joe Brody said:
They invent IKEA and think they know everything (just kidding on the IKEA thing).
I'm gonna be touchy about not inventing IKEA. That was Sweden.

And something being based on Finland/Finnish mythology is more or less a pipe dream. I don't think it would be much of a topic to speculate even here if there weren't prominent Finnish members in the attendance, offering commentary.
 

IndyForever

Active member
Spielberg cannot film in China as he insulted them over the 2008 Olympics which meant KOTCS was never released there throwing away millions in box office!

Spielberg mainly films nowadays in US or UK anything else is usually handled by 2nd unit so its highly unlikely he will change his stance now. I am still amazed he even agreed to Indy 5 after all this time the odds are stacked against it being even close to KOTCS production quality now Lucas is not bankrolling the movie with an unlimited budget & Disney are well known for slashing budgets even on Star Wars (why Rogue One had to get major reshoots). Its going to be a constant studio battle over budget to even get Indy5 onscreen so that rules out extensive location shooting.

I think Indy 5 will have a lot of soundstage interiors & most of the exteriors will be captured by a small 2nd unit with perhaps Harrison infront of a green screen.

You also need to remember there are few places left in the world which look like 1950s or 1960s era so that means either extensive CG to alter them or choosing locations with wide open landscapes (like the American mid west).
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Joe Brody said:
(laughing) Dude, that was the (attempted) joke.
And I thought I was being funny by getting touchy about undue praise. (IKEA is, after all, quite a success story.) Usually people don't get offended by it, perhaps politely correct you at best.

We Finns, on the other hand... hmm. Okay, that was pretty meta, I admit. I was parodying an actual reaction, not the stereotype.


So, let's just try an actual joke instead.

Q: I look good in a magazine. But when you get me home, you notice I have screws loose and/or missing. You get on me, and my legs spread apart immediately. What am I?

A:
A Swedish blonde... or an IKEA armchair.
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Maybe slashing Indy's budget would be a good thing. Even adjusting for inflation, the first three films were way less expensive than Crystal Skull, but they were motivated to squeeze those dollars. The movies look better and are better as a result.

For what it's worth, Lucas claimed Crystal Skull would have saved money by shooting internationally, but Spielberg was willing to pay the premium to shoot entirely in the states.
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
IndyForever said:
Spielberg mainly films nowadays in US or UK anything else is usually handled by 2nd unit so its highly unlikely he will change his stance now. I am still amazed he even agreed to Indy 5 after all this time the odds are stacked against it being even close to KOTCS production quality now Lucas is not bankrolling the movie with an unlimited budget & Disney are well known for slashing budgets even on Star Wars (why Rogue One had to get major reshoots). Its going to be a constant studio battle over budget to even get Indy5 onscreen so that rules out extensive location shooting.

I think Indy 5 will have a lot of soundstage interiors & most of the exteriors will be captured by a small 2nd unit with perhaps Harrison infront of a green screen.

You also need to remember there are few places left in the world which look like 1950s or 1960s era so that means either extensive CG to alter them or choosing locations with wide open landscapes (like the American mid west).


I can live with same level of production quality as we saw in Civil War -- and assume the same standard will production quality will apply for Indy V. That said, whoever did the Civil War location scouting and set design for the scenes shot in Atlanta did an exceptional job -- I think they got at least the Lagos and London scenes filmed there.

I will stand by my guess that there will be at least one on-location 'Venice' equivalent -- even if it is just London or Germany.

Speaking of Germany, I'll respond to your claim that there are few places that still look like the 1950's or 1960's. Check out the former East Berlin -- without even trying I could find settings for not just the '50's & '60's but every decade from the last century.

Also, Cuba and Panama would be very easy as well -- though I don't see them spending the bank to actually shoot in one of those locales.

Finn said:
What am I?

I'm awful at this -- I guessed 'corkscrew' knowing that's not right. Say what you will about Swedish blondes, they know how to play soccer/football.
 

Kai Hagen

New member
Finn said:
I'm not actually complaining about the idea of the Russkies strutting around Scandinavia like they own it. After all, we never had any issues about Nazis roaming around Egypt when it was still a British protectorate. Yet one reason it worked was because they didn't even attempt to handwave or excuse it - they just were there and that was it.
The movie got away with that because it was released before the Information Age. And there were less history books available than there are now. And at that time, chances were that an average American wouldn't hear the opinion of someone from Egypt or the UK about that scene. I don't think a new movie would get away with those kinds of wrong historical depictions now. Look at how the Britons reacted to U-571 on the internet.

IndyForever said:
Spielberg cannot film in China as he insulted them over the 2008 Olympics which meant KOTCS was never released there throwing away millions in box office!
If the diplomatic relationship continues to get more and more dicey, I think there's a possibility that none of the Hollywood films would be shown in the Chinese cinemas while Trump is president.
 
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