Crusade or Skull? Which ends the franchise better?

Benraianajones

New member
It isn't what the franchise ends BEST with, it is what you think has the best concept for the ending of Indy franhcise. As stated, this isn't a topic for generic "KOTCS wont be watched again" etc. It isn't part of the discussion.
 

Niteshade007

New member
Despite not being a fan of Kingdom, I think I'm going to have to go with Kingdom's ending. Last Crusade's has always left me somewhat cold. It's cinematically impressive, although not really groundbreaking, but I always felt like they jumped from serious moment to funny too quickly. Indy is very clearly upset about Elsa's death, I'm sure he feels in some way responsible. His dad makes a joke about his name, and suddenly everything is okay and then we get the visually impressive riding off into the sunset ending.

Not that Kingdom had a great ending. Far from it, actually. But, if I have to choose between the two, I'll go with Kingdom, but only because it shows Indy and Marion together again. I really can't think of a better reason (or really, any reason) other than that.
 

Benraianajones

New member
Looking beyond what is visually on screen though (sunset, jokes etc), which a few people here are not doing - I think the fact the movie focuses on the sentiment and concept of life and embracing it and not trying to take the concept of it in to your own hands (extending life with means not natural, and people in the movie pay for it ), is a far stronger ending, than just a marriage (as something to end a franchise).
 

jamiestarr

New member
My only real complaint about Crystal Skull is that the last shot is just Mutt hanging out in the Chapel. Why not open it up and see Indy and Marion cascading down the stairs and driving a way???
 

Indy's brother

New member
jamiestarr said:
My only real complaint about Crystal Skull is that the last shot is just Mutt hanging out in the Chapel. Why not open it up and see Indy and Marion cascading down the stairs and driving a way???

Yeah, that last shot feels pretty hollow. If one of these two movies had to be the franchise ender, TLC is the choice because of what the image on the screen meant. Riding off in the sunset was a firm "Goodbye", ending the series, whereas Skull leaves you wondering if it was the end or a new beginning.
 

StoneTriple

New member
Niteshade007 said:
if I have to choose between the two, I'll go with Kingdom, but only because it shows Indy and Marion together again. I really can't think of a better reason (or really, any reason) other than that.
That's a strong reason in my world. After all, I've been waiting 28 years for them to get together again. ;)

IndyMarion81.jpg


IndyMarion08.jpg
 

James

Well-known member
LC definitely feels more like a finale...mainly because that's the way Spielberg approached it. By comparison, KOTCS feels more like a re-introduction to the character.

Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford are all open to making another film, and that's something they obviously discussed before moving forward on Indy 4. After the lengthy wait for KOTCS, they have no reason to string anyone alone with empty promises.
 

caats

New member
FILMKRUSC said:
The franchsie ends best with Last Crusade.

I won't even be adding KOTCS to my dvd collection at all.

this is an attitude i don't really get. These adventures are just one of many different ones for Indy. And these just so happen to be the four we've been along for (movie wise). that's how i see it anyway. really the "franchise" just started with the original movies. the TV show and books/comics were still to come. i don't see it like Star Wars which is the movies then "extended uni", everything is just part of it.
 
Visually the last shot of Crusade is better methinks, though I've always felt that up to that point its a little bit rushed, I mean they only left the grail temple less then three minutes before.

Overall I think I prefer Crystal skull, well the third time I saw it anyway, as a Young Indy fan, and I said this before, I think KOTCS was the rounded out ending needed for who Indy is because of Young Indy. Young Indy sort of made Indy more real for me, we got to see his life, and his large amount of tragic love affairs, whenever he thought he found love it was swept away from him, usually under the most tragic of circumstances.

So basically, while I watched the wedding scene of Crystal Skull for the third time, I was thinking of all the times Indy had fallen in love, how he has always been such a lonely figure, and so it was I had a huge grin on my face as he finally got the girl. Probably a young indy fan thing I suppose, Indy's real to me, whenever I'm studying early 20th century history a little childish part of my mind always pipes up with 'wheres indy at this moment?' before settling back down to play with its toys. So yes. Thats a very long winded way of saying : Thats why I was really really happy for Indiana Jones in a way I wasn't at the end of Crusade. It felt like an ending.
 

TheMutt92

New member
I'd have to agree w/ most when I say LC's ending was simply grand and had a real sense of finality.

I liked the ending of KOTCS, and it fit well within the context of the film. As for the series as a whole, KOTCS's ending has a sense of subtle 'finality' as well: Indy gets married and discovers a son, not ending his adventures, but having a sense of there is something else in life to look forward to now that his dad and closest companions have gone on.
 

torao

Moderator Emeritus
Well...obviously Last Crusade's adventage is that it ended the series first
Didn't everyone who likes Last Crusade knew that it would be impossible to top the epic finale that the film (as a whole) presented to the series. The depiction of Indy's origin, the introduction of Henry Jr.'s existential Daddy issues and showing how he eventually comes to terms with them, including a number of little hints (such as the title) that this is indeed the last movie or that Indy's is not exactly getting younger...all of those aspects made a perfect ending to me.

Many described CS as an epilogue. And maybe that's the best way to justify and explain how it works/may work as a closing chapter.

I personally despise the very ending of Crystal Skull. At first I thought it was the basic premise of Indy's and Marion's wedding that made me dislike it. But after reading Darabont's version of it I came to the conclusion that what makes it not work in Skull is a) the low point/passage of the movie that are the thirty minutes leading up to it and b) the average (in German I'd call it spießig) way Indy's final union with Marion plays out. I don't like everything about Darabont's wedding scene but I prefer the tone he sets. It's romantic. He gives them a song... it's night ...the stars are shining...they're dancing. As the romantic scenes between Indy and Marion are close to non-existent in this installment :mad: this would have been a great opportunity to make up for it.

It's obviously a distinct choice to show Indy's religious wedding ceremony, especially considering the close encounters he had with supernatural powers, christian artefacts and alie...uh...interdimensional beings. I appreciate that this is saying something about Indy as a person. But that's the only thing about it i find intriguing about the whole wedding scene.

It starts with Indy's gown. Somehow it makes him look twenty years older. But that's nitpicking. What makes it worse for me is how the wedding does not only emphasize Indy's and Marion's love but also the union of the happy happy Jones family (Indy and Mutt's simultaneous answer and their laugh afterwards made me lower my sight and shake my head in shame and disbelief when I first had to see it. Would this be Indy's fate? Is this Indy? Or is it somebody's dream sequence? The lighting may indicate that.). I just don't buy that this is the end to the story of the great Indiana Jones. I'm repeating myself now. But at this point the Raiders March has lost all of its meaning.
Just on a purely emotional level I don't associate the Raiders March with Henry Jones Jr. in that Chapel or vice versa.

My only real complaint about Crystal Skull is that the last shot is just Mutt hanging out in the Chapel. Why not open it up and see Indy and Marion cascading down the stairs and driving a way???

And then there's that.

The beauty of the ride into the sunset is that the future is unknown and that all of Indy's great adventures come to mind while the Raiders March soars. There's an adventurous feeling about it. When the Camera just stays focused on Mutt while everyone's leaving ...I felt nothing but a slight bewilderment what this means...
 

James

Well-known member
The moment where Indy grabs his fedora and grins makes that entire sequence, imo. It's one of the best parts of the entire film.

So perhaps it should've ended with his grin, followed by a fade-out as Indy exits the church? I'm not sure why they held on Mutt, although it wasn't really a dealbreaker for me.

I realize how the overall tone of the wedding probably bedeviled 2008 audiences, but it was pretty apt for a 1950's ending. (Even the lighting.)

Incidentally, one of the producers happened to mention (on the dvd) that the film begins in fall, while the wedding is intended to be taking place in spring. I'm not sure how 'official' we can consider that...but it's kind've interesting to think that the film may actually be ending in 1958.
 

Kingsley

Member
Crusade's Finale is miles ahead.
Kotcs ends as a cheap Hallmark Channel family movie. Give me at least a shot of the outside! Adventure moves better there!

As Torao says, Darabont was better oriented when he wrote his ending, wedding included. Smart twists to connect the last scenes and close the whole structure, if not of a saga, at least of the movie.

Still, this Kotcs ending seems to point to one more movie in the future to make it right.
 

IAdventurer01

Well-known member
Indeed, sunset wins.

It's somewhat interesting to compare the different endings.

KotCS - Wedding, Happiness, all is right with the world, back in civilization

ToD - Children's return, happiness, all is right with the world, still on site

RotLA - Bureaucratic fools, Drink, back in civilization, Top Men

LC - slight sense of melancholy, dash of humor, exciting vamp as they ride into sunset.


In comparison, I find CS's ending mostly in line with ToD in the sense of overwhelming joy, except it's compounded by being back in civilization. Raiders ended with all very much NOT right with the world, and LC ended with the aforementioned attributes.

All 4 are fine endings, it just boils down to personal preference. In just comparing LC and CS, I find LC's far more compelling within the Indiana Jones framework because it has an exciting, " **** happened, our work is done here, let's GO!" whereas CS I find says something more in line with, "Well, it's over. Happiness and cheer abound!"
 
Top