JasonMa said:
I agree with Raiders112390 here. These movies are made with a different viewpoint and one that IMO doesn't represent why Star Wars has been so enduring. That doesn't make the viewpoint wrong or not worth investigating, I'm just not sure why you make that viewpoint into a Star Wars movie. Certainly not a Star Wars movie that is the continuation of the story that came before. I think this topic might have been great for one of the stand-alone stories like Rogue One or Solo, but not for the final trilogy of trilogies.
And I hate Rose's line because it is completely nonsensical in the moment.
"Hey, I stopped you from destroying the uber-weapon that was about to destroy us all because its important to save what you love. I died doing it, and barring a no-way-expected appearance by Luke Force-ghosting himself across the galaxy to buy the Rebellion the time they need to escape that they lost when I prevented the weapon's destruction, you're going to die at the hands of the Empire too. But aren't you glad we had this moment?".
I mean, really, in context of the scene, that's what was going to happen. How does Rose's move make any sense other than to the writer/director who knows what's going to happen next and that Finn and the Rebellion will survive. Without foreknowledge it appears Rose has just doomed the Resistance, killed Finn, and allowed the First Order to complete its conquest.
To simplify it: These films are designed to make one
think, whereas I think the original films were designed to make one
feel. I'm not saying the originals were dumb action films; no, by far there are thought-provoking elements to them. But when you watch those films, you don't really have to delve deeply into nuance to justify elements, nor do you have to really dig deep to find meaning or explain how beloved characters being essentially turned into almost villains is actually brilliant. They're simple films for the most part and that's the charm of them. Empire is a classic film but it's not very thought-provoking, not compared to these current films anyway.
There's a very black/white thing going on in the originals, with some hints of grey here and there. You're supposed to FEEL the Force, not think about it or its social or socio-political significance. Here, the Force is something to be theorized, deconstructed - in fact, the whole film is deconstructionist.
TLJ deconstructs the original films and that's why a lot of older (Generation X) people love it - it's very Gen X in its mindset, very cynical. Almost akin to an early Kevin Smith film in a sense - nothing matters. No cows are sacred. Luke is a coward. Han is a scumbag. Leia is a bad mom. It connects well with how Gen X feels about the older generation; it connects well with the underlying cynicism Gen X, as they've gotten older, feel about the world. The traditions of the past are meant to be deconstructed preach the social scientists, and Gen X likes that very much because all their lives, they've been let down. They were the children of idealists turned stock traders, the first generation whose cohorts were aborted in huge numbers; unwanted - so why should the past matter? Kill it if you have to. Nothing matters, not tradition, not heroes. Heroes, especially in deconstructionist and Marxian philosophy, are meant to be taken down. After all, "you live long enough, you see yourself become the villain." Meanwhile, you throw some anti-capitalist elements in there to grab Millenial viewers.
In the originals, you had fallen heroes, but that was all there was to it. They were fallen. You had good guys, some who were anti-heroes and some who weren't - but these films weren't designed to make you think. In fact they were made for kids and teens to enjoy. They were made with a CONSCIOUS desire to get away from the thought-provoking and socially important science fiction films of the 1960s like Planet of the Apes and 2001. TLJ is closer to those films than to the simple story of a farm boy becoming a man.
In the originals a lot is shown, and just as much is told. In these films, we're shown a lot and told little, as well. And it doesn't matter, because nothing matters. Snoke's backstory? Doesn't matter, man. How Kylo even was turned by Snoke? Doesn't matter, dude. Nothing does.
Nothing matters. Tradition, and our heroes, are meant to be torn down and discussed until their meaning is lost.