Did they find the holy grail?

WillKill4Food

New member
Finn said:
Non-existent. Kind of funny to hear that word from the mouth of a devout Christian.
God exists. You're points don't. Did I clear that up for you?
Finn said:
And yet again, I recommend you to actually read what I say. I haven't been once sarcastic during this discussion.
You said: "Going pseudo-intellectual, eh? Atta boy." If that's not sarcasm, what is it?
Since when has modding a forum required faith? I prefer trust.
You admitted that my "trust" in you was unwarranted, which it obviously is.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
WillKill4Food said:
God exists. You're points don't. Did I clear that up for you?
Ah man, you are comedy gold. The irony in this statement is killing me.

WillKill4Food said:
You said: "Going pseudo-intellectual, eh? Atta boy." If that's not sarcasm, what is it?
Honest praise.

WillKill4Food said:
You admitted that my "trust" in you was unwarranted, which it obviously is.
In my dictionary, "trust" and "faith" are not the same thing.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
WillKill4Food said:
For what? You're lying?
Okay, I take it back. For a second there I thought you were actually worthy of it.

WillKill4Food said:
You don't like the word faith, so I tried to oblige.
I have nothing against the word. But I could find a lot to gripe about the context it was used in.



C'mon, isn't there anybody here to spell it out for the kid? I'd do it myself, but that'd be kind of lame. It floats right there in front of his nose, but he just... Doesn't. See. It.
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Finn said:
C'mon, isn't there anybody here to spell it out for the kid? I'd do it myself, but that'd be kind of lame. It floats right there in front of his nose, but he just... Doesn't. See. It.
We have discussed, not quite the best word, so much that you could be talking about anything.
Becoming a moderator for a specific forum is usually rewarded to users who are particularly helpful...
Describes Finn to a tee...cough, cough.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
WillKill4Food said:
We have discussed, not quite the best word, so much that you could be talking about anything.
And that's your excuse for not seeing it?

WillKill4Food said:
Describes Finn to a tee...cough, cough.
I am helping you, man. All the time. But giving you too clear pointers would take coherence away from the main discussion.

Honestly... is it my fault if you don't see it?
 

adventure_al

New member
I thought the point in a moderator was so a thread didn't go too far off topic and to pacify situations. It's pretty clear Finn is just aggitating WillKill, it has gone past a difference of opinion.
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Finn said:
I am helping you, man. All the time. But giving you too clear pointers would take coherence away from the main discussion.
I wasn't referring to this conversation. I haven't seen you post a word of wisdom on a single thread, only sarcasm.
How does continuously avoiding the question add coherence to the discussion? People are reading this thread and thinking it's a religious argument between me and you, and that seems to be what it has become...

I thought the point in a moderator was so a thread didn't go too far off topic and to pacify situations. It's pretty clear Finn is just aggitating WillKill, it has gone past a difference of opinion.
Well, said.

So, back to the original topic:
No, the Holy Grail does not exist. Some theories on it's origins are below:
"There are two veins of thought concerning the Grail's origin. The first, championed by Roger Sherman Loomis, Alfred Nutt, and Jessie Weston, holds that it derived from early Celtic myth and folklore. Loomis traced a number of parallels between Medieval Welsh literature and Irish material and the Grail romances, including similarities between the Mabinogion's Bran the Blessed and the Arthurian Fisher King, and between Bran's life-restoring cauldron and the Grail. Other legends featured magical platters or dishes that symbolize otherworldly power or test the hero's worth. Sometimes the items generate a never-ending supply of food, sometimes they can raise the dead. Sometimes they decide who the next king should be, as only the true sovereign could hold them.

On the other hand, some scholars believe the Grail began as a purely Christian symbol. For example, Joseph Goering of the University of Toronto has identified sources for Grail imagery in 12th century wall paintings from churches in the Catalan Pyrenees (now mostly removed to the Museu Nacional d'Art de Catalunya, Barcelona), which present unique iconic images of the Virgin Mary holding a bowl that radiates tongues of fire, images that predate the first literary account by Chrétien de Troyes. Goering argues that they were the original inspiration for the Grail legend.

Another recent theory holds that the earliest stories that cast the Grail in a Christian light were meant to promote the Roman Catholic sacrament of the Holy Communion. Although the practice of Holy Communion was first alluded to in the Christian Bible and defined by theologians in the first centuries AD, it was around the time of the appearance of the first Christianized Grail literature that the Roman church was beginning to add more ceremony and mysticism around this particular sacrament. Thus, the first Grail stories may have been celebrations of a renewal in this traditional sacrament. This theory has some basis in the fact that the Grail legends are a phenomenon of the Western church.

Most scholars today accept that both Christian and Celtic traditions contributed to the legend's development, though many of the early Celtic-based arguments are largely discredited (Loomis himself came to reject much of Weston and Nutt's work). The general view is that the central theme of the Grail is Christian, even when not explicitly religious, but that much of the setting and imagery of the early romances is drawn from Celtic material."

Read more at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
adventure_al said:
I thought the point in a moderator was so a thread didn't go too far off topic and to pacify situations. It's pretty clear Finn is just aggitating WillKill, it has gone past a difference of opinion.
I confess, it's partially that. I let the Devil get the better of me, I just had to see how far this could go. Not exactly the most orthodox of methods, but brought some late-night amusement to this deranged mod. It takes two to tango, though.

WillKill4Food said:
I wasn't referring to this conversation. I haven't seen you post a word of wisdom on a single thread, only sarcasm.
Listen, you're still young so I as I stated already, I don't even expect you to see the points I so candidly hide behind my often warranted sarcasm.

In a way, our seemingly fruitless discussion can be seen as a fitting analogy of the Grail. One understands it as a physical cup that has possibly once existed and still does, or doesn't. Other sees it as something far more abstract (and I don't solely mean all that Dan Brown shtick). The Grail is a boggle like are all things surrounding it. There are people who understand that and people who don't. And it's the latter kind who try to state things like "God exists" when there should already be mutual understanding that such an argument will be thrown on a completely infertile soil.



Who was it who said we need a philosophy table?
 

The_Raiders

Well-known member
I don't know why there's a thread on the grail. There is no holy grail. There could be an acual cup, that Jesus drank out of that people think gives eternal life/ healing/ etc, but in reality it's just a cup, nothing more, nothing less. So like I'v said before I don't beleive in the cup of Christ, only Christ Himself :cool:
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Finn said:
Not exactly the most orthodox of methods, but brought some late-night amusement to this deranged mod. It takes two to tango, though.
How many times have I tried to get this discussion back on track? You're a mod, that's your job, but looks like I'm the one that has to do it...
Finn said:
Listen, you're still young so I as I stated already, I don't even expect you to see the points I so candidly hide behind my often warranted sarcasm.
I'd rather my age wasn't brought into this. I'm not a dumbass because I'm 16. I'm second in my class (other dude's an Indian).
Finn said:
In a way, our seemingly fruitless discussion can be seen as a fitting analogy of the Grail. One understands it as a physical cup that has possibly once existed and still does, or doesn't. Other sees it as something far more abstract (and I don't solely mean all that Dan Brown shtick). The Grail is a boggle like are all things surrounding it. There are people who understand that and people who don't.
Well said.
Finn said:
And it's the latter kind who try to state things like "God exists" when there should already be mutual understanding that such an argument will be thrown on a completely infertile soil.
Isn't there something about freedom of religion in our Constitution?
A man shouldn't be judged for his beliefs. Judging a man because of his religion is worse than judging a man because he's homosexual.
Finn said:
Who was it who said we need a philosophy table?
You're finally starting to be constructive.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
WillKill4Food said:
I'm not a dumbass because I'm 16. I'm second in my class (other dude's an Indian).
You know, I'd rather see you prove by what you actually have to say. The fact that you state you are smart doesn't make you smart.

WillKill4Food said:
Isn't there something about freedom of religion in our Constitution?
It's not my Constitution. Welcome to The Raven, an international Indiana Jones Fan Community. I'm not prohibiting you from using such arguments, by the way. Just pointing out that you may end up getting yourself ridiculed if you utilize them in a wrong context. Still got lot to learn, both of us.
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Finn said:
You know, I'd rather see you prove by what you actually have to say. The fact that you state you are smart doesn't make you smart.
Nor does my youth make me unintelligible.
Finn said:
It's not my Constitution. Welcome to The Raven, an international Indiana Jones Fan Community. I'm not prohibiting you from using such arguments, by the way. Just pointing out that you may end up getting yourself ridiculed if you utilize them in a wrong context. Still got lot to learn, both of us.
Sorry, I forgot that you are Finnish. But in the Rules of this Forum it says that:
…you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
WillKill4Food said:
Nor does my youth make me unintelligible.
Nobody ever implied that. I was simply offering some constructive criticism towards certain views of the world you seem to harbor. I'm of course not going to give you any trouble for not getting it (never have, to anyone) but the flipside of that is the sarky commentary I sometimes provide.

I think we should get back to discussing the Grail and its whereabouts now...
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Finn said:
I think we should get back to discussing the Grail and its whereabouts now...
I suggested that 5 posts ago:
WillKill4Food said:
So, back to the original topic:
No, the Holy Grail does not exist. Some theories on it's origins are below:
"There are two veins of thought concerning the Grail's origin. The first, championed by Roger Sherman Loomis, Alfred Nutt, and Jessie Weston, holds that it derived from early Celtic myth and folklore. Loomis traced a number of parallels between Medieval Welsh literature and Irish material and the Grail romances, including similarities between the Mabinogion's Bran the Blessed and the Arthurian Fisher King, and between Bran's life-restoring cauldron and the Grail. Other legends featured magical platters or dishes that symbolize otherworldly power or test the hero's worth. Sometimes the items generate a never-ending supply of food, sometimes they can raise the dead. Sometimes they decide who the next king should be, as only the true sovereign could hold them.

On the other hand, some scholars believe the Grail began as a purely Christian symbol. For example, Joseph Goering of the University of Toronto has identified sources for Grail imagery in 12th century wall paintings from churches in the Catalan Pyrenees (now mostly removed to the Museu Nacional d'Art de Catalunya, Barcelona), which present unique iconic images of the Virgin Mary holding a bowl that radiates tongues of fire, images that predate the first literary account by Chrétien de Troyes. Goering argues that they were the original inspiration for the Grail legend.

Another recent theory holds that the earliest stories that cast the Grail in a Christian light were meant to promote the Roman Catholic sacrament of the Holy Communion. Although the practice of Holy Communion was first alluded to in the Christian Bible and defined by theologians in the first centuries AD, it was around the time of the appearance of the first Christianized Grail literature that the Roman church was beginning to add more ceremony and mysticism around this particular sacrament. Thus, the first Grail stories may have been celebrations of a renewal in this traditional sacrament. This theory has some basis in the fact that the Grail legends are a phenomenon of the Western church.

Most scholars today accept that both Christian and Celtic traditions contributed to the legend's development, though many of the early Celtic-based arguments are largely discredited (Loomis himself came to reject much of Weston and Nutt's work). The general view is that the central theme of the Grail is Christian, even when not explicitly religious, but that much of the setting and imagery of the early romances is drawn from Celtic material."

Read more at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail
 
Top