What is canon?

HovitosKing

Well-known member
Throughout modern history we've seen lots of collected works canonized by fans and turned into something else entirely. The collected short stories/novels of Arthur Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes) have spawned an entire network of websites, societies, etc. as have the works of H.P. Lovecraft and others.

When it comes to Indiana Jones, however, something surprising happens. Quite different from the aforementioned collected works, the Indiana Jones canon consists of three films. There were books and a TV series added later, but what element(s) pushed the Indiana Jones film trilogy into the same canonical spotlight as Doyle, Lovecraft, and others, whose canons consist of 60+ stories/novels? How does Indy do it in a mere 3 films?
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Drop forged Japanese Steel hollowed out with a hole at one end, mounted on a Turkish Cypress rolling frame, packed with 'H.E.' and a ballistic projectile?

No, that's not it.

dictionary.com said:
5.the books of the Bible recognized by any Christian church as genuine and inspired

Doc, might not want to give the slippery slope argument a platform to stand on...lol :p
 

Doc Savage

New member
Pale Horse said:
Doc, might not want to give the slippery slope argument a platform to stand on...lol :p
Duly...and hilariously...noted. Although one could argue that that particular canon wouldn't win by virtue of fan-base. We could always back it up with the drop-forged, Japanese Steel hollowed out with a hole at one end, mounted on a Turkish Cypress rolling frame, packed with 'H.E.' and a ballistic projectile, but that would be *ahem* atrocious...;)
 
"There were books and a TV series added later"
Which blew chunks....

And I don't think that Indy is HALF as 'canonized' (To use your term) as HP Lovecraft, or Arthur Conan Doyle... Not by a million miles.
 

monkey

Guest
De-canonized

I've always been of the opinion that Indiana Jones should NOT be so canonized.

Often times in the past here on this forum I have expressed my opinion (ad nauseum perhaps to some) that the whole "canon" thing ruins the whole character/concept that is Indiana Jones.

ClintonHammond was right on the mark when he used the term "blew chunks" to describe one of the "canonized" contributions to the .........um....Indiana Jones ........canon.....(gosh I hate that word).

Anyway, I think part of the problem is that while George Lucas had a stroke of genius when he came up with the whole Indiana Jones concept.....and delivered some great films......it then kind of deteriorated. I don't think much of the "official" books to tell you the truth. I think they kind of suck actually. But the problem is that, EVERYTHING that Lucas has ever put out regarding the character of Indiana Jones is instantly................"canonized"........inscribed in stone.....whatever....even if it sucks, and then, well..........you're stuck with it.

Indiana Jones is a great character. Just like the aforementioned Sherlock Holmes, Indiana Jones is an almost limitless character with so much to offer. Too bad he is imprisoned in the "Canon".

Lucas has had him so tightly locked down that he hasn't even seen the light of day for nearly two decades, except for some fan fictions (shameless plug...sorry) that try to keep him alive and roaming and adventuring about the world.

My philosophy is........'Screw the Canon'......(OK, I know the strange and sick thoughts coming to mind in some of you........but you know what I mean....canon, not cannon, OK).

Indiana Jones is a character with limitless potential, and a dark and mysterious past.
 

IndyJr.

New member
If by some chance George Lucas starts up YIJ again (which I hope he does) then do you think he'll go by the time line set forth by the books and comics to do the series... or do you think he'll just go by the books... or do you think he'd make up his own stories using the same artifacts (thus removing the books and comics from the Official timeline and deeming them uncanon.

Personally I think the books are good enough to be canon (some of them)... but the comics... nah...

but I would rather George create his own stories if he were to restart YIJ.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
IndyJr. said:
If by some chance George Lucas starts up YIJ again (which I hope he does) then do you think he'll go by the time line set forth by the books and comics to do the series... or do you think he'll just go by the books... or do you think he'd make up his own stories using the same artifacts (thus removing the books and comics from the Official timeline and deeming them uncanon.

Personally I think the books are good enough to be canon (some of them)... but the comics... nah...

but I would rather George create his own stories if he were to restart YIJ.

Sean Patrick Flannery is now older than Harrison Ford was when he did Raiders, and if they recast then there would be no less than SIX people having played Indiana Jones.
 

Flannery10

New member
I've never read an Indy comic, so I can't give an opinion on that. I've read all the books though, and yes they could be seen as canon, even though a couple of details given in the books don't fit with others.

Even though, I doubt Lucas will ever make another season of Young Indy, he probably would stick to the episodes already made.

Oh, and for the record when I read the title I already knew what is gonna happen with this thread. It's gonna end up like the other canon thread, wanna bet?
 

IndyJr.

New member
Ok... I'll put 10 bucks down on that. ;) :p

Oh and oki9Sedo, who cares? There were a LOT of James Bond's. And if you love the series good enough then you'll not care too much that there face is a little different... it is possible to find someone who looks a lot like Flannery AND can act good.

I suggest that they hire Flannery and do the 30's stories with him... then hire someone else to play a 20's Indy...

Harrison to do bookends... perfecto
 

Avilos

Active member
I highly doubt we will see more young Indy episodes. If Lucas had wanted he could have made those episodes back when the rest of the series was made.

I think we might see those stories used though. Maybe Dark Horse could adapt those into comics.
 

IndyJr.

New member
Avilos said:
I highly doubt we will see more young Indy episodes. If Lucas had wanted he could have made those episodes back when the rest of the series was made.

I think we might see those stories used though. Maybe Dark Horse could adapt those into comics.

Not necessarily. He had like 20 episodes planned back when they were filming but never filmed them mainly because of the stupid critics. They got all over the show and got the supporters to stop supporting it.

I think now with the YIJ DVD success it's more of a possibility for them to restart. Now that YIJ is famous again.

Episodes that weren't filmed:
* "Princeton, May 1905" was to involve Indy meeting Paul Robeson for the first time.
* "Russia, March 1909"
* "Geneva, May 1909"
* "Jerusalem, June 1909" was to involve Indy meeting Abner Ravenwood, who is trying to find a "sacred relic"—the Ark on the temple mount. In "Palestine, October 1917", Indy and his comrades suggest that they will be returning to this location by Christmas of 1917.
* "Stockholm, December 1909"
* "Melbourne, March 1910" was to involve Indy meeting Harry Houdini and flying in a balloon with him. The events of this episode are mentioned in "Palestine, October 1917".
* "Tokyo, April 1910"
* "LeHavre, June 1916" was to involve Indy and Remy in basic training. When Remy is accused of murdering their drill sergeant, Indy defends him. The two also meet Jean Renoir, who teaches them how to fight in battles.
* "Flanders, July 1916" was to involve Indy, Remy and Jaques fighting in Flanders. The events of this episode are mentioned in "Trenches of Hell".
* "Berlin, Late August 1916" was to be a second season episode that involved Indy escaping from prison and fleeing to Berlin, and would have been the third part in the Somme/Germany cycle following Indy's capture in Somme, his escape from prison, his escape from Germany itself. He has to decide between returning to the US (since the US isn't at war with Germany yet) or returning to the Belgium Army. He ultimately decides to return to the Belgian army. Indy would have met Sigrid Schultz.
* "Moscow, March 1918" was meant as a sequel to "Russia, 1917". It would have involved Indy working with counter-revolutionary groups in order to allow the U.S. to takeover.
* "Bombay, April 1919" was to involve Indy meeting Gandhi on his way back from his search for the Eye of the Peacock diamond, while Remy is still searching for the diamond. Remy and Indy fight about continuing the treasure search.
* "Buenos Aires, June 1919" was to involve Indy being robbed while trying to returning to the U.S.. where he works as a tutor. He then ends up in South America as a tutor.
* "Princeton, August 1919"
* "Havana, December 1919" was to involve Indy his father in Cuba. The episode would have revolved around integration issues and Indy and Henry Sr. seeing a black player outplaying Babe Ruth.
* "Honduras, December 1920" was to involve Indy meeting Belloq for the first time and they become friends. Belloq steals a crystal skull and sells it.
* "Alaska, June 1921" was to involve Indy studying Eskimos, and rushing to deliver medical supplies by dog sled in order to save a village. The events of this episode are foreshadowed in "Travels with Father".
* "Brazil, December 1921" was to involve Indy and Belloq in a search for a lost city, and meeting Charles Fawcett.

And besides... what numskull would honestly rather read a comic or a book instead of watch a film of the exact same thing. (no offense to you). I just personally think if it's a decision between a comic or a film most everyone would choose film. AND pay big bucks to buy DVDs of them!
 

Adamwankenobi

New member
IndyJr. said:
* "Jerusalem, June 1909" was to involve Indy meeting Abner Ravenwood, who is trying to find a "sacred relic"?the Ark on the temple mount.
* "Havana, December 1919" was to involve Indy his father in Cuba. The episode would have revolved around integration issues and Indy and Henry Sr. seeing a black player outplaying Babe Ruth.
* "Honduras, December 1920" was to involve Indy meeting Belloq for the first time and they become friends. Belloq steals a crystal skull and sells it.
* "Brazil, December 1921" was to involve Indy and Belloq in a search for a lost city, and meeting Charles Fawcett.

I don't get why Lucas didn't do these episodes earlier on. Stuff with Indy's father, Abner, and Belloq would have been awesome, and might have helped ratings to have these well-known characters in there. And even though we see Henry Sr. multiple times in the series, it's always cool for him to be involved in a story IMO.
 

IndyJr.

New member
Adamwankenobi said:
I don't get why Lucas didn't do these episodes earlier on. Stuff with Indy's father, Abner, and Belloq would have been awesome, and might have helped ratings to have these well-known characters in there. And even though we see Henry Sr. multiple times in the series, it's always cool for him to be involved in a story IMO.

like in Travels with Father :whip:
 

Indianna1880

New member
IndyJr. said:
Not necessarily. He had like 20 episodes planned back when they were filming but never filmed them mainly because of the stupid critics. They got all over the show and got the supporters to stop supporting it.

I think now with the YIJ DVD success it's more of a possibility for them to restart. Now that YIJ is famous again.

Episodes that weren't filmed:
* "Princeton, May 1905" was to involve Indy meeting Paul Robeson for the first time.
* "Russia, March 1909"
* "Geneva, May 1909"
* "Jerusalem, June 1909" was to involve Indy meeting Abner Ravenwood, who is trying to find a "sacred relic"?the Ark on the temple mount. In "Palestine, October 1917", Indy and his comrades suggest that they will be returning to this location by Christmas of 1917.
* "Stockholm, December 1909"
* "Melbourne, March 1910" was to involve Indy meeting Harry Houdini and flying in a balloon with him. The events of this episode are mentioned in "Palestine, October 1917".
* "Tokyo, April 1910"
* "LeHavre, June 1916" was to involve Indy and Remy in basic training. When Remy is accused of murdering their drill sergeant, Indy defends him. The two also meet Jean Renoir, who teaches them how to fight in battles.
* "Flanders, July 1916" was to involve Indy, Remy and Jaques fighting in Flanders. The events of this episode are mentioned in "Trenches of Hell".
* "Berlin, Late August 1916" was to be a second season episode that involved Indy escaping from prison and fleeing to Berlin, and would have been the third part in the Somme/Germany cycle following Indy's capture in Somme, his escape from prison, his escape from Germany itself. He has to decide between returning to the US (since the US isn't at war with Germany yet) or returning to the Belgium Army. He ultimately decides to return to the Belgian army. Indy would have met Sigrid Schultz.
* "Moscow, March 1918" was meant as a sequel to "Russia, 1917". It would have involved Indy working with counter-revolutionary groups in order to allow the U.S. to takeover.
* "Bombay, April 1919" was to involve Indy meeting Gandhi on his way back from his search for the Eye of the Peacock diamond, while Remy is still searching for the diamond. Remy and Indy fight about continuing the treasure search.
* "Buenos Aires, June 1919" was to involve Indy being robbed while trying to returning to the U.S.. where he works as a tutor. He then ends up in South America as a tutor.
* "Princeton, August 1919"
* "Havana, December 1919" was to involve Indy his father in Cuba. The episode would have revolved around integration issues and Indy and Henry Sr. seeing a black player outplaying Babe Ruth.
* "Honduras, December 1920" was to involve Indy meeting Belloq for the first time and they become friends. Belloq steals a crystal skull and sells it.
* "Alaska, June 1921" was to involve Indy studying Eskimos, and rushing to deliver medical supplies by dog sled in order to save a village. The events of this episode are foreshadowed in "Travels with Father".
* "Brazil, December 1921" was to involve Indy and Belloq in a search for a lost city, and meeting Charles Fawcett.

And besides... what numskull would honestly rather read a comic or a book instead of watch a film of the exact same thing. (no offense to you). I just personally think if it's a decision between a comic or a film most everyone would choose film. AND pay big bucks to buy DVDs of them!
it's MUCH MORE THAN LIKELY after the KOTC no new YIJ episodes/movies will be made. remember these 3 volumes represent chapters 1-22, and the movies represent chapters 23, 24, 25 with KOTCS being Chapter 26. Lucas won't do anything more than sequels with harrison ford at MOST even thats unlikely but possible at best. YIJ is officially done and after KOTCS the whole canon continuity will be COMPLETE. I'm sad to say that but i think it's for the best. the 1905 episode he could maybe do as a prequel to pre-date his adventures and Prof. Jones "world lecture tour" but even thats a stretch.
 

Indianna1880

New member
IndyJr. said:
Not necessarily. He had like 20 episodes planned back when they were filming but never filmed them mainly because of the stupid critics. They got all over the show and got the supporters to stop supporting it.

I think now with the YIJ DVD success it's more of a possibility for them to restart. Now that YIJ is famous again.

Episodes that weren't filmed:
* "Princeton, May 1905" was to involve Indy meeting Paul Robeson for the first time.
* "Russia, March 1909"
* "Geneva, May 1909"
* "Jerusalem, June 1909" was to involve Indy meeting Abner Ravenwood, who is trying to find a "sacred relic"?the Ark on the temple mount. In "Palestine, October 1917", Indy and his comrades suggest that they will be returning to this location by Christmas of 1917.
* "Stockholm, December 1909"
* "Melbourne, March 1910" was to involve Indy meeting Harry Houdini and flying in a balloon with him. The events of this episode are mentioned in "Palestine, October 1917".
* "Tokyo, April 1910"
* "LeHavre, June 1916" was to involve Indy and Remy in basic training. When Remy is accused of murdering their drill sergeant, Indy defends him. The two also meet Jean Renoir, who teaches them how to fight in battles.
* "Flanders, July 1916" was to involve Indy, Remy and Jaques fighting in Flanders. The events of this episode are mentioned in "Trenches of Hell".
* "Berlin, Late August 1916" was to be a second season episode that involved Indy escaping from prison and fleeing to Berlin, and would have been the third part in the Somme/Germany cycle following Indy's capture in Somme, his escape from prison, his escape from Germany itself. He has to decide between returning to the US (since the US isn't at war with Germany yet) or returning to the Belgium Army. He ultimately decides to return to the Belgian army. Indy would have met Sigrid Schultz.
* "Moscow, March 1918" was meant as a sequel to "Russia, 1917". It would have involved Indy working with counter-revolutionary groups in order to allow the U.S. to takeover.
* "Bombay, April 1919" was to involve Indy meeting Gandhi on his way back from his search for the Eye of the Peacock diamond, while Remy is still searching for the diamond. Remy and Indy fight about continuing the treasure search.
* "Buenos Aires, June 1919" was to involve Indy being robbed while trying to returning to the U.S.. where he works as a tutor. He then ends up in South America as a tutor.
* "Princeton, August 1919"
* "Havana, December 1919" was to involve Indy his father in Cuba. The episode would have revolved around integration issues and Indy and Henry Sr. seeing a black player outplaying Babe Ruth.
* "Honduras, December 1920" was to involve Indy meeting Belloq for the first time and they become friends. Belloq steals a crystal skull and sells it.
* "Alaska, June 1921" was to involve Indy studying Eskimos, and rushing to deliver medical supplies by dog sled in order to save a village. The events of this episode are foreshadowed in "Travels with Father".
* "Brazil, December 1921" was to involve Indy and Belloq in a search for a lost city, and meeting Charles Fawcett.

And besides... what numskull would honestly rather read a comic or a book instead of watch a film of the exact same thing. (no offense to you). I just personally think if it's a decision between a comic or a film most everyone would choose film. AND pay big bucks to buy DVDs of them!
also i know i'm pretty much puting my neck on the gelatine by saying this...but i'll risk it and hope i don't get burned alive. i think if the 1905 princeton episode WAS filmed as a 45min prelude to the YIJC, they should get Jake Lloyd to play the 6yr old Indy

i duck covering head

i have a whip! :whip:
and a gun! :gun:
and a really nice smile... :D
 
Indianna1880 said:
also i know i'm pretty much puting my neck on the gelatine by saying this...but i'll risk it and hope i don't get burned alive. i think if the 1905 princeton episode WAS filmed as a 45min prelude to the YIJC, they should get Jake Lloyd to play the 6yr old Indy

i duck covering head

i have a whip! :whip:
and a gun! :gun:
and a really nice smile... :D


23238326.jpg


Why put your neck on it? It's more useful when you just eat it.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Matinee Idyll said:
Is he still a terrible actor?
How the heck should I know? All I've seen from him is the Phantom Menace.

But that's not the point here, but the fact that is he a bad actor or not, isn't he a little... eldish to play a six-year-old? Sure Hollywood makeup can do wonders but...
 
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