Is Indy an atheist (in Raiders)?

Short Round

New member
It's pretty obvious Indy believes in the Christian God. Does anyone remember when he had to have FAITH to cross in Last Crusade? How about when he gets married in the church? How about how his father was obsessed with the grail and slapped him for taking the Lord's name in vein? How about how in Raiders he basically said he went to sunday school?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Another good one...

Though this conversation is like saying Marion is anti-abortion...

Agreed. It's all supposition as to what's going on inside a character's head. Only George can give us a definitive answer.
 

Chewbacca Jones

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Now you're strechin it Chewie!

Let's see, his father is a grail scholar, slaps him for taking the Lord's name in vain, so it's obvious he has a Christian upbringing.

Even Mother Theresa questioned her faith...

He got married in a church...the cards are stacked against you, you walking carpet!

Who's scruffy lookin'? Wait. Wrong script. :p

Seriously, though. I've seen it happen in real life. In fact, I was raised Christian, even went to Sunday school for a while (as Short Round brought it up), but I have a decidedly non-Christian fiance. I have offered to get married by her traditions, but she's not sold on going in either direction. Frankly, we may avoid BOTH! :D

I would say, without a doubt, that Indy's parents are NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY atheist, and would like to THINK their son is a man of God. But, as I have seen often, being raised strongly Christian can result in not being Christian upon reaching adulthood.

And I'll have you know, RS, the only thing I'm stretching is my NECK, which is stiff from spending too much time at my computer. :dead:
 
I know the original question was about Raiders but people have been talking about all the films. In KOTCS toward the end when he is talking to Mutt he says "somewhere your grandpa is smiling" refering of course to his late fater Henry Jones Sr. This shows that at least at that stage of his life he believed in some kind of afterlife.

If anything it seems Indy's "faith" in something has increased over time, in Last Crusade he does the "leap of faith" and later witnesses his father being miraculously healed.

I imagine overall througout his life he was always somewhere inbetween and neither atheist nor a religious zealot obviously. He might not be a regular churchgoer but I think if someone asked him what he was, especially in the KOTCS era he would say Christian even if just a nominal one. At the very least he doesnt wear his faith on his sleave.
 

Chewbacca Jones

New member
Ask agents Scully. :p

I'm sure Indy found faith, if not religion. Faith in what, exactly, seems suggestive at best, but open to interpretation. As it should be.
 

Perhilion

New member
Considering ToD, I'd say he's at least agnostic in Raiders. I'd like to think by the end of LC he's some sort of Christian, being one myself. But I think this is why Spielberg and Lucas never clarified it- for each of us he can be whatever we want, and still be out hero.
 

Lao_Che

Active member
Chewbacca Jones said:
Ask agents Scully. :p

I'm sure Indy found faith, if not religion. Faith in what, exactly, seems suggestive at best, but open to interpretation. As it should be.

Yes. I like the idea of an active pantheon in the Indyverse but that by no means I think it should be applied to the real world. ;)

It's far more interesting for me that there are interdimensional beings flying around the same world with vampires, zombies, unicorns (if they're weren't wiped out by the Genesis Deluge), ghosts, carpenters with healing powers, Bigfoot/Chewbacca, dinosaurs, time travel, robots and deities that you really shouldn't annoy if you're going to play in their sandbox. :whip:
 
Perhilion said:
Considering ToD, I'd say he's at least agnostic in Raiders. I'd like to think by the end of LC he's some sort of Christian, being one myself. But I think this is why Spielberg and Lucas never clarified it- for each of us he can be whatever we want, and still be out hero.

I feel the same way. I am also a christian and would like to think that Indy is one as well but I understand the need for Spielberg and Lucas to never confirm anything. Overall Indy is an academic, he comes from a Christian background via his father but perhaps was only a nominal one himself for most of his life. I dont take his line in Raiders to mean that he believed in nothing supernatural at all but rather he took all "folklore" with a grain skepticism and wasnt scared by stories that would scare the more supersticious.

In Last Crusade his father is portrayed as the man that is more overtly religious and his son as one with a faith less defined, less open. The leap of faith scene is powerfull though, I had a priest in a Catholic church actually show it once during a sermon.

The question is what denomination is Indy? Given his father is implied to be scottish I imagine presbetyrian. Can anyone tell what denomination the wedding service was at the end of KOTCS?
 
Lao_Che said:
It's far more interesting for me that there are interdimensional beings flying around the same world with vampires, zombies, unicorns (if they're weren't wiped out by the Genesis Deluge), ghosts, carpenters with healing powers, Bigfoot/Chewbacca, dinosaurs, time travel, robots and deities that you really shouldn't annoy if you're going to play in their sandbox. :whip:

Say what you feel Laoland Che(e)...

However the films aren't held to the any expanded universe material, (and by that I mean ANYTHING thats NOT a FILM).

I enjoy some of the expanded material, but I don't take it very seriously. It's entertaining, but so volitile and subject to change.

I am the father of [the films] that's my work. Then we have the licensing group, which does the games, toys and books, and all that other stuff. I call that the son - and the son does pretty much what he wants. Then we have the third group, the holy ghost, which is the bloggers and fans. They have created their own world. I worry about the father's world. The son and holy ghost can go their own way.

After that Lucas quote, I'm pretty secure in the feeling that Indy is a Christian...
 

Walton

New member
Order...

ToD happens before Raiders. I noted someone mentioned it as a sequel, which in the theaters it is, but chronologically it preceeds RotLA.

As for Indy's beliefs, he strikes me as agnostic for starters...a scientist in search of "fact, not truth." I know, that's from TLC, but that's where we meet Indy in ToD...he's quite objective.

By the end of RotLA, he seems hooked on the awe that comes from the supernatural, and by TLC's close, even though we don't get any real insight into what he believes, he seems less skeptical of things relating to the supernatural in general and Christianity specifically.

"Oh, I believe, sister. That's why I'm down here." The way he says that in KotCS makes it sound like he means "I believe these creatures are real; that's why I'm over here and not up there next to you...so if they're going to melt our faces, I want a head start." The way it reads in the script, it seems like he means, "I have faith/beliefs; that's why I do what I do." I believe the latter is more accurately what that line means, despite what it sounds like in the film.

As a scientist, Indiana would likely choose his faith based on the most solid reason. I haven't read the rest of this thread, so I don't know where you all are on that idea or if it's even been posed before now.
 
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Walton

New member
Lao_Che said:
I like the idea of an active pantheon in the Indyverse but that by no means I think it should be applied to the real world. ;)

This is interesting to me. I agree with the first half of the quote but not the second. The real world is a sort of pantheon...in that we live in a world where different cultures believe different things; heck, the members of the same household believe different things. Aliens, if there are such beings, do not change my beliefs. Zombies wouldn't. Pagan idols or magic rocks...nope. What kind of faith is it that get rocked by "inter-dimensional beings" anyway?

Think about it. Indy's standing there in the presence of saucermen from Mars...and I figure, if he's got any faith, he's praying. I would be, 'cause who knows, these things might melt my face and the face of everyone dear to me. He gets out alive...so God is merciful. God listened.

Just saying, for instance...though there's no hint that it went down that way in Indy's head, though the fact is he and his made it out alive.

If there's one thing the study of history shows us, we live an a world of many gods and monsters. Certainly, I believe there is only one true God, but the fact that many profess in another god or assert that God does not exist (how could they possibly know that?) means that in a sense, we live in an active pantheon...because men will rationalize whatever action based on the God, god, or monster they worship.
 

Lao_Che

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Say what you feel Laoland Che(e)...

However the films aren't held to the any expanded universe material, (and by that I mean ANYTHING thats NOT a FILM).

I enjoy some of the expanded material, but I don't take it very seriously. It's entertaining, but so volitile and subject to change.

I am the father of [the films] that's my work. Then we have the licensing group, which does the games, toys and books, and all that other stuff. I call that the son - and the son does pretty much what he wants. Then we have the third group, the holy ghost, which is the bloggers and fans. They have created their own world. I worry about the father's world. The son and holy ghost can go their own way.

After that Lucas quote, I'm pretty secure in the feeling that Indy is a Christian...

This is because I typed 'sandbox' ain't it? ;) Unless a film specifically refutes an aspect of the EU stuff I don't see why it can't be taken on board. Personal choice, obviously. The Lucas except-for-KotCS purists can think what they like. The other media will just adapt around the new information anyway. The Star Wars ones will at least. :p
 
Lao_Che said:
This is because I typed 'sandbox' ain't it? ;)
Nah, I just like mixing it up on the playground.
Lao_Che said:
Unless a film specifically refutes an aspect of the EU stuff I don't see why it can't be taken on board. Personal choice, obviously.
It all boils down to choice, but the legacy remains...

The effort put forth for Raiders dwarfs any of the sequels or EU iterations. It was Indiana Jones: Adventure Hero. I recently interviewed Max McCoy for an upcoming Indy Cast and he put it perfectly: he evolved into a "Superhero".

Regarding personal taste, I enjoyed the attitude of Raiders because it reminded me of what was so cool about those early Eastwood westerns, (as a practical example, but not soley). If you took out the supernatural ending and made it a gun fight I would still have loved the film, (execution being king of course).
Lao_Che said:
The Lucas except-for-KotCS purists can think what they like. The other media will just adapt around the new information anyway. The Star Wars ones will at least. :p
Well, thats an interesting position, but I like how Max approached it, (and think it can be replicated even today).
 

Montana Smith

Active member
I always thought Indy was a super-hero, his super power being in the form of supernatural good luck when it comes to self-preservation.

Having that much luck must have given Indy something to believe in.
 

Walton

New member
Montana Smith said:
I always thought Indy was a super-hero, his super power being in the form of supernatural good luck when it comes to self-preservation.

Having that much luck must have given Indy something to believe in.

Ha! I heard the joke was he was the guy who had all his fingers plugging holes in a dam, thought he had it under control, then noticed one more hole forming just out of reach...which forces him to pull something heroic.
 
Walton said:
Ha! I heard the joke was he was the guy who had all his fingers plugging holes in a dam, thought he had it under control, then noticed one more hole forming just out of reach...which forces him to pull something heroic.
A toe? Or are you thinking "in the box"?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Walton said:
Ha! I heard the joke was he was the guy who had all his fingers plugging holes in a dam, thought he had it under control, then noticed one more hole forming just out of reach...which forces him to pull something heroic.

An even more heroic feat than the average man, since Supes and other such heroes like to wear their underpants on the outside!
 
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