Abner Ravenwood in Last Crusade

No Ticket

New member
If you start connecting stuff like Fedora actually being Abner in LC... you start going down the ridiculous route of connecting everyone to everything like what the prequels did for Star Wars.

Darth Vader built C-3PO?!?! Hahaha.
 

ReggieSnake

New member
No Ticket said:
If you start connecting stuff like Fedora actually being Abner in LC... you start going down the ridiculous route of connecting everyone to everything like what the prequels did for Star Wars.

Darth Vader built C-3PO?!?! Hahaha.
That brings back memories of Darth Vader rolling around on the ground in a flowery meadow.:sick:
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
I prefer to suspect Dr. Fantasy (of the magic caboose) is Willie's magician grandfather, but then things get a little too Dickensian. (Though there's no such thing when it comes to the YIJC.)
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Moedred said:
I prefer to suspect Dr. Fantasy (of the magic caboose) is Willie's magician grandfather, but then things get a little too Dickensian. (Though there's no such thing when it comes to the YIJC.)
Well played, sir.
 

Falcon

New member
Abner Ravenwood as Fedora?

I received issue #4 of the Indiana Jones magazine yesterday, and on page 42, under the heading "The Man in the Hat", it stated that an early draft of the Last Crusade script had the character "Fedora" as being Abner Ravenwood, Marion's father. That's the first I have ever heard of that concept. Very intriguing, though I wonder how that would play out as Abner was subsequently Indy's Archaeology professor at the University of Chicago. Anyone else heard of this before?
 

oki9Sedo

New member
I always thought he was Abner up until a couple of years ago. I really can't remember where I got that idea, it was just something I always took as fact for years until I discovered there is in fact no basis for it.
 

IndyFan89

Member
I choose to believe it is Abner, he's kind of the Ben Kenobi figure to Indy and was a heavy influence on him.

He's so different from his father that Abner becomes his father figure and where Indy learns all his tricks. Stuff like the gear and so forth could have come from Abner too. It's a cool little story element if you think about it.

It's like Mutt, i thought Mutt should have been more like Connery, leaving Indy to be the outcast lol.
 

Wilhelm

Member
In another Spielberg movie from the 80s "Young Sherlock Holmes", Holmes get his hat from his old mentor Professor Waxflatter. Maybe Spielberg remembered that idea for the opening of LC, so it's possible that Fedora was Abner.
 

IndyJr.

New member
Deadlock said:
As another student of all things Ravenwood, I'm also familiar with the Fedora/Ravenwood connection. Unfortunately, I don't know of any additional details revealed about Ravenwood by earlier drafts. Frankly, I'm glad Fedora isn't Ravenwood. While I agree with the depiction of Abner as a grave robber, there are a few things I take exception to regarding Fedora being Ravenwood:

1. Indy dressing like his mentor: I know that Fedora's outfit was meant to be a teaser, to build suspense until we find that River Phoenix is Indy. Even without Fedora being Abner, it is bad enough that Indy's eventual outfit was derivative. But Indy and Abner dressing alike? That makes it SO much worse.

2. All important events in Indy's life happening in 20 minutes at Arches: Once again, it's bad enough that this fluke adventure gives Indy his whip, scar, hat, and lifelong pursuit. But to throw his mentor in as well... That's just TOO much. Indy must have been REALLY impressionable that day. :rolleyes:

Paden, I like all your thoughts on Ravenwood. I think you make a good case of why Fedora COULD be Ravenwood. (I guess I just don't want him to be.) I'd just like to point out that there's nothing about your theories that necessitate Fedora being Ravenwood. Fedora could just have easily been Forrestal.

Well technically, all he got was the KNOWLEDGE of how to use a whip and his hat. Besides that, he's always been interested in archeology (see The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, Chapter 1 - 5). In the very first Chapter he mentioned he'd like to be an archeologist, THAT is where it started in terms of lifelong pursuit (of a career)... if you're talking about his lifelong pursuit after the Cross of Coronado, then that's different... but even then, so what? It's not entirely out of the question that someone might use a weapon, gain a hat, and start his life long search for a Cross all in the same day... Knowledge, Material and a Crusade all in one day... wow, not very hard to do. I've done so myself. :p
 

Darth Vile

New member
oki9Sedo said:
I always thought he was Abner up until a couple of years ago. I really can't remember where I got that idea, it was just something I always took as fact for years until I discovered there is in fact no basis for it.

Me too. It's not a recent thing as it was widely circulated and discussed prior to the release of TLC - in the 1980's. And because the movie never actually mentioned his name, I'd just assumed that he was indeed Abner... and it was a little nod from Lucas/Spielberg to Raiders.

I think I actually prefer him being Abner, even if nothing is made of it...
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Darth Vile said:
And because the movie never actually mentioned his name, I'd just assumed that he was indeed Abner...
Actually, it does and his name is Garth. (Granted, the mention is not that easy to make out but it's there.)
 

Lao_Che

Active member
Stoo said:
One of the henchmen, Roscoe (the red-headed kid) calls him Garth so it's not Abner. Check out the subtitles
and click to this good, little thread below to find out where Indy does meet "Fedora" again!

Anybody wish Indy would have met "Fedora" again?

Both the subtitles in the 2003 and 2008 DVDs say Fedora for me but the Last Crusade junior novel has Garth. At least it confirms who Roscoe is directing the line at. Now... which one's Alfred? ;)
 

RaiderMitch

TR.N Staff Member
There was a German novel where Indy meets up with Fedora again in the 1940s and he had the name Roscoe I believe....
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Lao Che said:
Both the subtitles in the 2003 and 2008 DVDs say Fedora for me but the Last Crusade junior novel has Garth. At least it confirms who Roscoe is directing the line at. Now... which one's Alfred?
Hmm...I'll have to check mine again because I don't have the jr. novel. Alfred? He must be the older, cowboy-type guy.

Hey, Mitchell. Check out the link I posted above where we talked about that very story. Apparently, the guy's name is Jake.
Based on these 2 translated passages, he is either "Fedora" or "Half-Breed" (or Garth Jake Fedora is also half-caste and you can't tell)!

Icybro said:
It was Jake, the Half-Breed! The same man, whom Indy would recognize anywhere, from a long time ago and another place, but in a situation not dissimilar to this one. At the time, Indiana surprised Jake and his cronies while they were looting a grave containing the famous Cross of Coronado. And it was perhaps the first time that Indiana received a taste of what his life would later become.

This man had taught Indy his first major defeat. But it had also changed his life, perhaps more than any other before or after it...
Flannery10 said:
Yes, Jake is definetely identified by the following sentence: "It was him, no doubt. The face had aged over the decades but not as much as Indy had expected. It still expressed toughness and a little sympathy, something Indiana only remembered too well. On his head there used to be an old fedora, the same one that had accompanied Indiana on so many adventures from that day on." I think that clearly identifies Jake/Garth as Fedora.
 

Goodeknight

New member
Was Fedora originally Abner?

Came across and article that said the role of Fedora in LC was originally written as Abner Ravenwood.

http://pompousfilmsnob.com/2010/10/25/the-man-who-made-indiana-jones-fedora/

Is that true? I can't take the article at face value, because the writer goes on to say Ox is Abner in CS.

In the original script the character of Fedora was originally Abner Ravenwood who was later played by John Hurt in ?The Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls? who was the father of Marion (Karen Allen) and dubbed as Indy?s ?mentor?.

Anyone?
 

JRJENNINGS86

New member
im not sure but i do not beleive Ox is Abner. in ROLA Marrion cleary tells Indy that Abner is dead. i always figured Indy got the Fedor from the treasure hunter in Last Crusade. i could be wrong though.
 

Darth Vile

New member
I think at some point in early pre-production it was supposed to be Abner Ravenwood. However, I don't think this idea was ever pursued. It certainly wasn't Abner in the original novelisation of the movie (although I stand to be corrected).
 

Montana Smith

Active member
I thought Abner was a respectable archaeologist. Whereas Fedora's role was obviously that of a rogue.

Indy himself seems to have adapted both halves of his personality from these two role models.
 
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