Indiana Jones vs. other franchises

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
It was a little disconcerting when Lucas said "chances are that [Indiana Jones 5] will be not well accepted much more than it will be well accepted, so there's not a lot of impetus to do it." Most franchises have a low threshold for acceptance: if things go sour, given time, fans will accept a new cast (Star Trek), new character (Bourne), new director (Pirates), or the exact same story over again (Spider-Man). Some franchises are allowed mulligans (Bond) or the chance to stumble towards the final conflict fans were promised (Star Wars).

http://boxofficemojo.com/franchises
Try these sortable tables. Find a franchise with a smaller relative drop in quality than Indy, if you can. Toy Story is perhaps the only better open-ended large franchise, while Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter followed their established arcs smoothly. Final Destination bucked the trend and closed (?) on a critical high note, unheard of for a horror franchise, but it's nowhere near the same league.

Most who complain and protest are probably just being protective of Indy and their youthful free associations. Some of us like how the franchise, like the character, is unfairly pitted against seemingly insurmountable odds.
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
This article looks at comparable franchises, though isn't particularly happy with Indy IV.

As I said in another thread here yesterday, it surprises me that Lucas hasn't been able to shake the criticisms of Indy IV, despite the fact that it did pretty well.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Excellent article Toht, featuring the average ratings of the weakest installments of the 10 most profitable franchises as of 2010 (Indy and Lord of the Rings have since been displaced by Toy Story, Avengers, Transformers, Twilight, Star Trek and X-Men):
Lord Of The Rings (92%)
Indiana Jones (71%)
Potter (71%)
Spider-Man (61%)
Bond (Die Another Day, 57.5%)
Star Wars (57%)
Shrek (49.5%)
Pirates Of The Caribbean (47.5%)
Jurassic Park (45.5%)
Batman (19.5%)
Shortly after this article was written, however, came Harry Potter 7 part 1, "the one in the tent," which despite the promised high body count concluded with a funeral for a mole rat. Hopefully "Katniss Everdeen and the Hunger Games: Mockingjay - part 1 of 2 in IMAX 3D" avoids this fate. Nevertheless the half-a-film was accepted by fans demanding faithful adaptations ever since the nearly 3-hour Chris Columbus installments.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Updated the list. Top 20 movie franchises based on North America unadjusted receipts, and their lowest rated installments according to Rotten Tomatoes averages of all critics. (Not sure if Hulk 1 is part of the Avengers franchise so I included Hulk 2.)

Toy Story (99%, 2010)
Lord Of The Rings (92%, 2001)
Harry Potter (78%, 2007)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
Avengers (67%, 2008) (62%, 2003)
Spider-Man (63%, 2007)
Star Wars (57%, 1999)
Mission: Impossible (57%, 2000)
Jurassic Park (50%, 2001)
Shrek (41%, 2007)
James Bond (39%, 1985)
X-Men (37%, 2009)
Matrix (36%, 2003)
Pirates of the Caribbean (34%, 2011)
Fast and the Furious (27%, 2009)
Twilight (26%, 2011)
Star Trek (21%, 1989)
Transformers (20%, 2009)
Batman (13%, 1997)
Fockers (10%, 2010)
 
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Indy's brother

New member
I think the lack of "impetus" is more on the part of George Lucas than any other party, really. George got a real one-two punch when it's come to public acceptance of his last two films, whether it be real (Red Tails), or internet hype, inflated by fanboy blowhards (KOTCS). From the sources cited in this thread, it would seem as though Indy is as viable as ever, or at least more of a safe bet than most. Spielberg has said that he would make time for Indy 5, and Ford has said over and over again that he would do it. Lucas is feeling sorry for himself, and that's all. His allusion to no one being interested in doing it is pure crap, a smokescreen. He's gone from making films that were almost universally loved and accepted, to having people outright despise him and/because of his films. I think he's having a hard time with it. He did "retire" after all.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Pitting Indy against 25 science fiction action adventure franchises outside the top 20, another series with better quality control rises above, Mad Max. But as with Lord of the Rings and Jason Bourne, that could all change soon.

Bourne (81%, 2004)
Mad Max (81%, 1985)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
Back to the Future (64%, 1989)
El Mariachi (62%, 1995)
Jack Ryan (59%, 2002)
Lethal Weapon (54%, 1998)
Dirty Harry (54%, 1988)
Die Hard (50%, 1995)
Narnia (49%, 2010)
Men in Black (39%, 2002)
Alien (39%, 1992)
Matrix (36%, 2003)
Transporter (36%, 2008)
Terminator (33%, 2009)
Rambo (29%, 1985)
Blade (26%, 2004)
Predator (23%, 1990)
Resident Evil (21%, 2004)
Underworld (16%, 2006)
Mummy (13%, 2008)
Superman (10%, 1987)
Beverly Hills Cop (10%, 1994)
Robocop (4%, 1992)
Jaws (0%, 1987)
Highlander (0%, 1991)
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
Haha, great list. I love how awful sequels can apparently ruin an entire franchise - Jaws: The Revenge, i'm looking at you...
 
Judging by Crystal Skull, I'd say Lucas wants us to see Indy more along the lines of the Alvin & The Chipmonks franchise.
 

Dr. Gonzo

New member
Toht's Arm said:
Haha, great list. I love how awful sequels can apparently ruin an entire franchise - Jaws: The Revenge, i'm looking at you...

If we were to point out which entry started the down-cline of those films I would point at 2. That can be argued I guess but 3 was definitely a great white turd. And the last one that you speak of was a TV movie.

The point is, was there even a need to make another Jaws after the first?

The answer is no. Unless the need is to make a follow up to the film that created the "blockbuster" and earned the studio tons of cash in which case the studio answered "yes".
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
Dr. Gonzo said:
If we were to point out which entry started the down-cline of those films I would point at 2. That can be argued I guess but 3 was definitely a great white turd. And the last one that you speak of was a TV movie.

The point is, was there even a need to make another Jaws after the first?

The answer is no. Unless the need is to make a follow up to the film that created the "blockbuster" and earned the studio tons of cash in which case the studio answered "yes".

There was no need to make any other ones, I agree. Jaws 2 isn't awful, Jaws 3(D) is pretty dire but The Revenge seems to be understood to be one of the worst films ever made. Also, as far as I can tell, it was released theatrically, so I'm not sure about the TV movie aspect of which you speak...
 

Marshall2288

New member
replican't said:
Judging by Crystal Skull, I'd say Lucas wants us to see Indy more along the lines of the Alvin & The Chipmonks franchise.
This made me laugh but it's true. In the making of KOTCS feature on the DVD when Lucas said he wanted to call the movie "Indiana Jones and the Saucer Men" I immediatly prayed they never do a 5th movie. I can forgive a lot of KOTCS but sucer men? No
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
The commenters are right that Alien vs. Predator movies should be separate. I also ignored Ironman because it's only 2 installments, and part of Avengers. They sure seem desperate to separate Nolan's Batman films from the others! But then I wonder if Oz the Great and Powerful, Wizard of Oz, and Return to Oz is a trilogy...
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Bourne seems to be departing the leader board of least worst franchise installments.
And then there were five...

Toy Story (99%, 2010)
Lord Of The Rings (92%, 2001)
Mad Max (81%, 1985)
Harry Potter (78%, 2007)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
All the rest from the Atlantic lists, which are adjusted for inflation.

Godfather (68%, 1990)
Paranormal Activity (59%, 2010)
Bourne (56%, 2012)
Ocean's Eleven (56%, 2004)
Madagascar (55%, 2005)
Naked Gun (53%, 1994)
Dirty Harry (52%, 1988)
Austin Powers (51%, 1999)
Jackass (49%, 2002)
American Pie (43%, 2012)
Ice Age (39%, 2012)
Planet of the Apes (38%, 1973)
Scream (36%, 2000)
Rocky (27%, 1990)
Home Alone (24%, 1992)
Spy Kids (23%, 2011)
Rush Hour (19%, 2007)
Nightmare on Elm Street (15%, 2010)
Hannibal Lecter (15%, 2007)
Santa Clause (15%, 2006)
Scary Movie (15%, 2001)
Vacation (13%, 1997)
Exorcist (11%, 2004)
Crocodile Dundee (11%, 2001)
Friday the 13th (10%, 1989)
Karate Kid (5%, 1994)
 

Dr Bones

New member
Toht's Arm said:
Haha, great list. I love how awful sequels can apparently ruin an entire franchise - Jaws: The Revenge, i'm looking at you...

Exactly!

I saw an article about Toy Story 4 where people were getting all ranty as they felt 3 was the perfect end. I thought it was, as was 1 and 2, they could have ended at 1. But I am happy to see the return of a franchise I love and the same applies if Indy ever makes a comeback.

The reboots, sequels, prequels or whatever can be absolute trash, but that does not diminish the original classics.

Jaws, Highlander, Predator, Star Wars, Raiders, Batman and Robocop are a few of my favourite films....despite the various awful films, tv series that followed, my affection for the originals is in tact.

Indy 4 was weak in comparrison and I doubt Indy 5 will be made or buck the "trend"if it is, but so what?

Raiders will always be a favourite of mine.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Forgot Clint Eastwood's Man With No Name trilogy... anything else?

Toy Story (99%, 2010)
Fistful of Dollars (94%, 1965)
Apu (93%, 1956)
Lord Of The Rings (92%, 2001)
Three Colors (90%, 1994)
Mad Max (81%, 1985)
Harry Potter (78%, 2007)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
 
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Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Here's the compiled list of worst instalments, including some found on this Empire list of trilogies. Was trying to get to 100 but will wait for Iron Man, Hangover and Riddick to become trilogies later this year.

Toy Story (99%, 2010)
Fistful of Dollars (94%, 1965)
Apu (93%, 1956)
Three Colors (90%, 1994)
Mad Max (81%, 1985)
Harry Potter (78%, 2007)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
Evil Dead (70%, 1993)
Godfather (68%, 1990)
Avengers (67%, 2008) (62%, 2003)
Lord of the Rings (65%, 2012)
Back to the Future (64%, 1989)
Spider-Man (63%, 2007)
Muppets (63%, 1999)
El Mariachi (62%, 1995)
Jack Ryan (59%, 2002)
Star Wars (57%, 1999)
Mission: Impossible (57%, 2000)
Bourne (56%, 2012)
Ocean's Eleven (56%, 2004)
Madagascar (55%, 2005)
Dirty Harry (54%, 1988)
Lethal Weapon (54%, 1998)
View Askewniverse (54%, 1995, 2001)
Millennium Series (54%, 2009)
Naked Gun (53%, 1994)
Dirty Harry (52%, 1988)
Oz (52%, 1985)
Austin Powers (51%, 1999)
Jurassic Park (50%, 2001)
Narnia (49%, 2010)
Jackass (49%, 2002)
American Pie (43%, 2012)
Shrek (41%, 2007)
James Bond (39%, 1985)
Men in Black (39%, 2002)
Alien (39%, 1992)
Planet of the Apes (38%, 1973)
Ice Age (37%, 2012)
X-Men (37%, 2009)
Matrix (36%, 2003)
Transporter (36%, 2008)
Scream (36%, 2000)
Pirates of the Caribbean (34%, 2011)
Terminator (33%, 2009)
Night of the Living Dead (30%, 2010)
Rambo (29%, 1985)
Final Destination (29%, 2009)
Fast and Furious (27%, 2009)
Rocky (27%, 1990)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (27%, 1993)
Blade (26%, 2004)
Twilight (26%, 2011)
Paranormal Activity (26%, 2012)
Home Alone (24%, 1992)
Predator (23%, 1990)
Spy Kids (23%, 2011)
Child’s Play (23%, 1991%)
Star Trek (21%, 1989)
Resident Evil (21%, 2004)
Transformers (20%, 2009)
Rush Hour (19%, 2007)
Step Up (19%, 2006)
Die Hard (17%, 2013)
Underworld (16%, 2006)
Nightmare on Elm Street (15%, 2010)
Hannibal Lecter (15%, 2007)
Santa Clause (15%, 2006)
Scary Movie (15%, 2001)
Mummy (13%, 2008)
Vacation (13%, 1997)
Batman (12%, 1997)
Texas Chainsaw Massacre (12%, 2006)
Mighty Ducks (12%, 1992)
Exorcist (11%, 2004)
Crocodile Dundee (11%, 2001)
Porky’s (11%, 1983)
Superman (10%, 1987)
Fockers (10%, 2010)
Beverly Hills Cop (10%, 1994)
Friday the 13th (10%, 1989)
Saw (10%, 2010)
Halloween (7%, 1995)
Piranha (7%, 1982)
Karate Kid (5%, 1994)
Robocop (4%, 1992)
Jaws (0%, 1987)
Highlander (0%, 1991)
Amityville (0%, 1983)
Death Wish (0%, 1994)
Police Academy (0%, 1987, 1988, 1989)
 

JuniorJones

TR.N Staff Member
Moedred said:
Police Academy (0%, 1987, 1988, 1989)
220px-Lance_Kinsey.jpg


Nooooooooooooooooo!
 
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According to scientists, Krystal Scull was 1896% worser than Raiders and as a stand alone film, about 2% more watchable than Mission To Moscow. Which had 25% more realistic Russian accents in it, but caused 987% less trauma to adult childhood memories.
 
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