The Rocketeer

Montana Smith

Active member
Stephen Jared said:
Nobody better ever say The Rocketeer is a bad movie in my presence. I love that movie. And, yeah, I love the soundtrack too. One of my best friends played the young nazi who falls out of the zeppelin. His line to Timothy Dalton, "You -- Actor!!" was improvised.

I didn't "get it" at the time. My mates were saying, "But it's based on a graphic novel..." Though it just felt really silly back then, and being a second choice movie I was compelled to sit though it.

Since then I've been into pulp beyond Indy, so, as I said it deserves another appraisal.

Stephen Jared said:
For me, of those retro pulp/serial films of the early to mid 90s, The Rocketeer stands above the others. I love The Phantom and Dick Tracy and The Shadow (the lesser of the bunch). But The Rocketeer is the best. Shame they don't make those kinds of films these days. Maybe Captain America will be similar.

The Phantom
was my favourite of that bunch, and also the old Captain America movie.


Lonsome Drifter said:
What you just typed will forever blemish my view of your character!

Ha!

I've never watched a Billy Crystal movie. A trailer with Billy Crystal in it is bad enough! :p
 

Goonie

New member
The Rocketeer is a movie I want Disney to revisit, and turn into a franchise. One of my favourite Disney movies. And Jennifer Connelly looked awesome in this, not like the swizzle stick she looks like now.

I'm hoping with TRON Legacy coming out, and the suits at Disney see its success, I hope they revisit some of their older great movies in their library - like Black Hole!
 

AnnieJones

New member
Dig Site 1138 said:
Personally, I really like "The Rocketeer". Admittedly, it's a little slow getting started. But come on, it's got a guy with a rocket pack, a cool art deco helmet, dames in distress, Nazi spies, gangsters, a nod to Rondo Hatton and Errol Flynn conspiracy theories, and even a big, honkin' zeppelin!!

What's not to love??
I love this movie and I want to buy it someday.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
While the movie looks great on paper*, the execution is just a bit flat.

The pacing is pretty slack and, unfortunately, though I think Bill Campbell is a decent actor, he really just didn't bring much presence or charisma to the role. It was a pretty flat performance.

The tone of the movie is so featherweight that it's impossible to really take any of it seriously. Even light-hearted adventure fare needs to have a whiff of gravitas to it, or why bother?

I like so many things about the movie - the period setting, the story, many of the supporting characters. But it's too soft to really engage us.

I really enjoyed Roger Ebert's take -

"Raiders of the Lost Ark" used the old adventure serials as an inspiration. This movie uses them as a model."

Well-put.

*recently, I have gotten into the Rocketeer comic books, which are delightful. And definitely edgier than the watered-down, Disneyfied film.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Lance Quazar said:
While the movie looks great on paper*, the execution is just a bit flat.

The pacing is pretty slack and, unfortunately, though I think Bill Campbell is a decent actor, he really just didn't bring much presence or charisma to the role. It was a pretty flat performance.

The tone of the movie is so featherweight that it's impossible to really take any of it seriously. Even light-hearted adventure fare needs to have a whiff of gravitas to it, or why bother?

That would explain why I remember being bored first time round.

Whether the subject is fantastical or not, if it's featherweight it holds little interest. There has to be something in a movie beyond a visual spectacle, meaning characterization to lend an air of purpose. That would be where the Indy movies stand out.

Lance Quazar said:
I like so many things about the movie - the period setting, the story, many of the supporting characters. But it's too soft to really engage us.

There are some movies that have a cool premise and cool visuals, but you just want to shake some life into them. That was my initial Rocketeer experience. I just wanted the movie to be over quickly

Lance Quazar said:
*recently, I have gotten into the Rocketeer comic books, which are delightful. And definitely edgier than the watered-down, Disneyfied film.

For anyone into 28mm miniatures, Bob Murch of the Canadian "Pulp Figures" company made a selection inspired by the Rocketeer.

http://www.pulpfigures.com/cat.php?range=Americans&catalog=PYS&custID=21743142261290667767

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Stephen Jared

New member
Montana Smith, I would seriously urge you to revisit The Rocketeer. I think you'll love it. As to it being featherweight, you'll have to point out to me how The Phantom is not featherweight.

Lance, I too agree with the Ebert quote. But I don't see how it's a criticism. I haven't read his review, just the quote you offer. Maybe in context it is a criticism, but I'd call that a description. The Rocketeer is more true to the spirit of old serials, is very lightweight compared to Raiders of the Lost Ark. I think Joe Johnston, who did a lot of work on the Indy films, and directed The Rocketeer, intended for it to be just that. Why does every adventure movie that comes out have to be exactly like Raiders of the Lost Ark? Now, you can fairly say, "As a matter of taste, I prefer an adventure film with some seriousness in the concept." Fine. But there must only be a handful of adventure films you really like, if that's the case. Right?

IMO, Joe Johnston is possibly the most under-appreciated director in Hollywood. The Rocketeer is a classic. Hidalgo is terrific fun, as is The Wolfman.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stephen Jared said:
Montana Smith, I would seriously urge you to revisit The Rocketeer. I think you'll love it. As to it being featherweight, you'll have to point out to me how The Phantom is not featherweight.

The Phantom had a long comic book heritage, going back to the genuine '30s pulp era, which lends background weight. The Rocketeer was just trying to have too much fun, to the point where none of it mattered, and it was no longer even fun.

The Rocketeer, like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, just failed to engage. Unlike some movies which have instant appeal, or visuals and actors that stick in the memory positively. The Rocketeer had at least one thing over Sky Captain, it wasn't submerged in that grimy brown retro look!

If the DVD crosses my path I'll pick it up to re-evaluate the movie, but it's not something I'd go out of my way to do. Which is exactly my intention with Avatar. Some films just appeal or grab you, and some just don't.
 

TheMutt92

New member
Classic homage. If Captain America is anything like this, then were in for some good old fashion WWII fun!
 

Montana Smith

Active member
TheMutt92 said:
Classic homage. If Captain America is anything like this, then were in for some good old fashion WWII fun!

Agreed. It's like classic nose art from a wartime aircraft.

As long as Captain America doesn't wear the suspenders. Though, if he did, he might put the Germans off their guard long enough to bring about a swift victory!
 

AndyLGR

Active member
I have fond memories of seeing this in the cinema when it came out. I got it on DVD recently and I think it's aged well, I still enjoyed it. It's easy going fun. Jennifer connolly is still gorgeous in it, Timothy dalton does a very slimy turn as the villain and I loved the rondo hatton styled henchman.
 

RaiderMitch

TR.N Staff Member
From 1991 Jeffery Katzenberg's response to my Rocketeer criticisms

I had such high hopes for this film. Loved Dave Stevens art and books. And I wanted it to be the next Raiders series. But I sat in that movie - it wad sneak preview in a Sunday evening. And no one ever applauded at any if the hero scenes. The biggest killer was when the rocketeer runs up the stairs with the US flag behind him and heads off to get the girl and stop the Nazi zeppelin. Crickets. Crickets.

It fell flat. Plus most folks heard the name Disney and thought lame kids movies. This was early 90s and they were making a comeback with animated films but folks I knew heard superhero Disney and thought Condorman.

So I wrote to Disney and said they screwed up a great potential franchise. What I got back cane from Jeffery Katzenberg himself! Read on..., wonder if GL responds to crystal skull hate mail?
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Stephen Jared

New member
Why do so many people hate The Rocketeer?

Mitchell states the same thing Montana does: it's not Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Is it possible that Raiders of the Lost Ark was so good that it ruined the adventure movie genre? If the lead isn't as compelling as Indy, we're disappointed. If the action isn't as riveting ...

I'm talking about old fashioned adventure, not video game-inspired things like Prince of Persia.

On one hand, if you don't like it, you don't like it. I don't want to suggest anyone force themselves to like something. But I wish every adventure didn't have to compare to Raiders. If you love westerns, do you not want to see a lot of westerns? Or do you decide The Searchers is the best; I'll just watch that over and over and over for the rest of my life. This is not in any way a criticism of anyone. I'm just lamenting the fact that Kingdom of the Crystal Skull can't be compared to many similar movies made in the last ten years. For me, there aren't enough Rocketeers or Crystal Skulls. They used to be common. If you were around in the late 30s, 40s, or 50s, (maybe even the 80s), you could see a number of adventures each year and each of those releases had the advantage of an audience that couldn't point to a DVD of an earlier film sitting in their bookcase and saying, "That one's better."

Additionally, each film should be judged based on what it set out to achieve. I don't think The Rocketeer actually intended to be Raiders of the Lost Ark. Did it want to capture some of the same 30s adventure serial spirit? Yes, and it did, I think.

Sky Captain failed, IMO, because it only loved the look of old fashioned adventure. Any heart-filled, adrenaline-pumping sentiment was stomped on with corny jokes. The filmmakers seemed like they were embarrassed by romance and heroism. God forbid, they should be revealed to be geeks! But that's where I critique it, I think fairly. It would be unfair of me to say, not as good as Raiders.

@Mitchell, I can't believe JK wrote you back. That's amazing. It's also cool that you cared enough to send him a letter. I disagree on the Disney logo though: I think it should have informed audiences to expect lighter fare than Raiders. Can you imagine -- Walt Disney Presents Raiders of the Lost Ark? No. Therefore, people should have known to expect something different, something with a lot more levity.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stephen Jared said:
Mitchell states the same thing Montana does: it's not Raiders of the Lost Ark.

That wasn't me, Stephen. :)

Stephen Jared said:
Is it possible that Raiders of the Lost Ark was so good that it ruined the adventure movie genre? If the lead isn't as compelling as Indy, we're disappointed. If the action isn't as riveting ...

I don't compare every adventure movie to Indy. ROTLA is the benchmark for Indy movies - to me they're self-contained and bound by character.

Movies can stand by themselves. The Rocketeer didn't inspire me. I didn't feel anything for the characters, and therefore nothing for their predicament. That's the basis of how I judge movies. Action without character is dull. Which is maybe what you mean when you write:

Stephen Jared said:
I'm talking about old fashioned adventure, not video game-inspired things like Prince of Persia.

Romancing the Stone was a better adventure. Sky Captain felt too distant to get involved with: that grimy colour acted as a barrier.
 

Stephen Jared

New member
Hi Montana,
Earlier in the thread, Lance compared Rocketeer to Raiders, even quoting Ebert doing the same, and then you echoed his sentiments as to perceived weaknesses in Rocketeer, saying "that's where the Indy movies stand out."

Anyway, it doesn't matter.

My main purpose here, especially with you, is to try to get you to revisit the film. It's not for everyone. But it's surprising to me that you like The Phantom but feel The Rocketeer wasn't good.

I agree about Romancing the Stone.

Here is where there may be some agreement in the disappointment with Rocketeer (including Mitchell's). I love The Rocketeer, The Phantom, Dick Tracy, The Shadow, the 1980 Flash Gordon. And yet, even though each of those were supposed to start franchises, I'm glad they only made one film from each. It does take an extraordinary character to warrant a series of films. While brand new versions of those films might be fun, the characters in those specific films didn't make me long for sequels. But, to me, that's okay. I'll take them as they are and relish them all the more because they stand alone.

The best of the films based on old serials was The Mask of Zorro I think. They did make a sequel to that obviously, and though I didn't hate it, something altogether new based on an old serial may have been a better expenditure of time and money.
 

RaiderMitch

TR.N Staff Member
I remember being amazed Katzenberg wrote back, my letter to Disney was critical of the marketing not so much the actual film. I thought Jennifer Connelly was beautiful as Jenny/ Bettie Page. And Campbell had the look and they had chemistry ( I recall they were engaged after the film -so they definitely hit it off) but I remember them being on local TV news with the helmet trying to tell people what the film was and all they kept saying was "Raiders". Plus you had the Joe Johnston connection to ILM ( ironically I saw the Rocketeer puppet under glass at ILM last week and that's what brought back all the memories). Yet where Toht is scary, Lothar is goofy ( no Disney pun), Belloq is slick and evil, Sinclair is a ham. I think some of actors just didn't get it. Paul Sorvino seems like a Batman TV baddie. And Alan Arkin is one of my favorites - heart is a lonely hunter/and in-laws are his best- but it doesn't work.

Is it the director? Johnston is a sfx genius, and this was his debut big screen movie - maybe it had too much expectations.

I put this side-by-side with The Shadow. Looks great, has mostly good performances but is misfiring. And you don't know why. I do remember the cheesy toys - I still have the bendy, bank, 3D readalong, pins, and trading cards. It was handled like a rated G movie and all the negativity that anyone over 9 has when seeing a "kids" movie - The Rocketeer needed a tougher edge. It's too soft and that's why there never was a sense of danger, plus Disney wouldn't make a truly violent movie. I didn't need Saving Private Ryan violence but more Raiders esque action would have helped.

Here it is twenty years later and we still talk about it, and I wish Dave Stevens was still around adding to his creation. The Rocketeer is a one hit wonder in comic lore, and that if given more time and care could have been a film classic

It is what it is. Then again atleast it made more sense than Buckaroo Banzai!
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stephen Jared said:
Hi Montana,
Earlier in the thread, Lance compared Rocketeer to Raiders, even quoting Ebert doing the same, and then you echoed his sentiments as to perceived weaknesses in Rocketeer, saying "that's where the Indy movies stand out."

Anyway, it doesn't matter.

I specifically ignored Lance's comment referring to Raiders in my reply. Indy movies stand out because they create interesting characters (though as with KOTCS the creators don't always know how to use them for the best). What I recall of The Rocketeer was a series of visuals enacted by un-interesting characters. In the cinema all I wanted was for the movie to be over quickly.

Stephen Jared said:
My main purpose here, especially with you, is to try to get you to revisit the film. It's not for everyone. But it's surprising to me that you like The Phantom but feel The Rocketeer wasn't good.

The more I think about it, the more The Rocketeer resembles the 1980's Flash Gordon: intentionally hammy. When I first saw Flash on video I was constantly wishing that the creators had taken it more seriously, that it had been like Star Wars, and not a comedy.

And this tallies with Mitchell's

Mitchellhallock said:
The Rocketeer needed a tougher edge. It's too soft and that's why there never was a sense of danger...

Romancing the Stone succeeded in combining comedy with danger, and I think The Phantom did as well. The Mummy series of movies fit here, too, though they were hit and miss.

If a DVD of The Rocketeer appears in front of me and the seller's asking for a quid, then I'll revisit it. Apart from that I have no inclination to go out of my way to see it again.

Stephen Jared said:
The best of the films based on old serials was The Mask of Zorro I think.

That one's been sitting in my 'DVDs to (re)watch pile' for some time.

When it comes to Banderas, my favourite movies of his are El Mariachi, Desperado and Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Pulp movies inspired by '60s Italian westerns, set in a world not unlike that of the earlier pulps which inspired the Indy series. That is, a world not quite as real as our own, where physics allows for a greater expression of action, but with room for character, epic quality, tongue-in-cheek comedy, violence, and danger. It may be mock-epic, but I care for the characters, whereas in The Rocketeer I remember not caring whether they lived or died. Neither was the sense of adventure riveting. In that regard it resembles post-Doom Town KOTCS.
 

Le Saboteur

Active member
rocketeer-logo.jpg




When Disney initially announced their plans for a second gate in Anaheim based around the idea of "California" I was hopeful. For what? That they would delve into the state's... well, mythology. Given the Golden State's integral nature in the development of manned flight, for example, here was the perfect opportunity to build out a ride based on The Rocketeer! Sadly it wasn't to be; instead the sharp pencil boys thrust a very literal interpretation of the state upon the masses. Touristas can soar over California for real, and the actual Golden Gate Bridge isn't that far from Anaheim. Alcatraz too. Food's better as well.

Too date the only evidence of The Rocketeer in Disneyland is in Tomorrowland. There's a popcorn stand that sets up in front of where the Astro Orbiter used to be, that has a figure of Cliff Secord mindlessly popping kernels.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sqjOY2MgkEc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Why bring it up? Because Disney continues to short sheet the picture! Despite a zeppelin's worth of promotional material for the film, Disney saw fit to only include the trailer on the 20th Anniversary release. This also in spite of the fact that they arranged a special screening at the El Capitan, and put together an extensive panel of the film's cast & crew and a gallery's worth of props and artwork!

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You can find a nice write-up of the event over at The Rocketeer.net!

Oddly enough, Bill Campbell doesn't appear to have actually aged much in twenty years! He could reprise the role! But if you're like me, and need to upgrade your worn out VHS copy, definitely pickup the Blu-ray release. The restoration on the film itself is superb; they even appear to have better integration of the green screen work into the actual picture.

*My Zorro stuntshow would have made Indy look like child's play.
 
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