Would TOD have better if Short Round was a girl

RKORadio

Guest
I mean this just occured to me as i was watching it today. Imagine it: a kick-ass Asian little girl would provide a great contrast with the cowardly Willie.
As it is, the only women we really see in the story are "greatful" mothers who are overjoyed when Indy returns their children to them, and Willie's back up singers.
 

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
Indy having a daughter might have made Kingdom Of the Crystal Skull better, but I really don't think Short Round being a girl would improve Temple of Doom.

It's already a little unrealistic Shorty would bee as effective of a sidekick as he is in real life, making a young girl as effective would be even more so.
 

Spurlock

New member
It might have made the character a bit more interesting, and indeed it was talking about to make Indy's sidekick a princess, but they change it for some reason.

I think short round needed to be a boy to connect with Indy.
 

Phlip

New member
Spurlock said:
It might have made the character a bit more interesting, and indeed it was talking about to make Indy's sidekick a princess, but they change it for some reason.
In the Blu-ray Making Of, they changed it because it "would have been inappropriate." ...What could they possibly be implying?
 

Spurlock

New member
I can see that, a 30 year old man running around with a random 10 year old girl. Since you've already seen Indy's 'appreciation' of women, you know his relationship between Short Round is purely as friends, but with a girl...

Not saying Indy would be like that, I think it would just be in better interest if that possible thought was destroyed.
 

The Drifter

New member
Spurlock said:
I can see that, a 30 year old man running around with a random 10 year old girl. Since you've already seen Indy's 'appreciation' of women, you know his relationship between Short Round is purely as friends, but with a girl...

Not saying Indy would be like that, I think it would just be in better interest if that possible thought was destroyed.

I doubt that thought would've entered most people's minds. Is that how some people think? That a grown man can't be around a small girl without accusations being slung around?
Sure, Marion was young when she and Indy porked, but a 10 year old girl? Nah.

Anyway, I don't think it would've made Doom any better. I love it just the way that it is. Indiana already had one female tagging along, and even if the girl could have held her own, we already seen the cliched tough-female type in Marion previously.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Phlip said:
In the Blu-ray Making Of, they changed it because it "would have been inappropriate." ...What could they possibly be implying?

This afternoon I've been watching Sonny Chiba's Street Fighter and Return of the Street Fighter (both 1974).

An odd coincidence but the idea of a female Short Round came up.

Chiba's character, Tsurugi, who fights like an animal (a bit like Indy) has a quirky young female sidekick called Pin Boke (Kitty) in the second film.

While he's working out, she's talking to him:

"If you hadn't picked me up when I was starving, where would I be?"

Then she turns to him, smiles, plays with her pigtails and attempts to seduce him clumsily, saying "I owe you a lot." She slips over and Tsurugi ignores her.

Going by his past form, Indy's potential young female sidekick might not have gotten off so lightly!
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
The previous movie had some light (or not-so-light) implications with Marion that robbing the cradle was actually not beneath Indy, so some people might not have put it past him. Or at the very least made him the butt-end of some very unpleasant jokes.
 

kongisking

Active member
Forbidden Eye said:
Indy having a daughter might have made Kingdom Of the Crystal Skull better, but I really don't think Short Round being a girl would improve Temple of Doom.

It's already a little unrealistic Shorty would bee as effective of a sidekick as he is in real life, making a young girl as effective would be even more so.

I dunno, you saying that having a kick-ass young girl sidekick is 'unrealistic' sounds sort of sexist (not saying you are, just saying that's how it sounds).

If anything, having Shorty be a girl would have helped balance out the overwhelmingly negative stereotype that Willie was, by giving audiences an example of a female who is loyal, brave and a competent fighter, age be damned. Hell, they could have made a running gag out of the idea of a full-grown woman character who acts like a child, and a child character who is more mature.

But alas, the film is done, released, and attained "underrated classic" status, so we will have to accept what we were given. (y)
 

Dr. Gonzo

New member
Spurlock said:
I can see that, a 30 year old man running around with a random 10 year old girl. Since you've already seen Indy's 'appreciation' of women, you know his relationship between Short Round is purely as friends, but with a girl...

"I was a child! I was in love!"

"You knew what you were doing."
 

RKORadio

Guest
Well a grown man certainly can't admit to liking Shirley Temple films the way a grown woman can. It's a factor.

The Drifter said:
Is that how some people think? That a grown man can't be around a small girl without accusations being slung around?
 

The Drifter

New member
RKORadio said:
Well a grown man certainly can't admit to liking Shirley Temple films the way a grown woman can. It's a factor.

Why not?
Because you'll label him? So, you can accuse ToD of being racist and insensitive toward the people of India, but yet you'll label a grown man for liking a Shirley Temple movie?
Are you for real?
 

RKORadio

Guest
I'm not labelling anyone. I'm just saying the general public perception of a man who watches for example Shirley Temple films, is suspect.

I don't say it's justified or OK but it's reality.
 

The Drifter

New member
RKORadio said:
I'm not labelling anyone. I'm just saying the general public perception of a man who watches for example Shirley Temple films, is suspect.

I don't say it's justified or OK but it's reality.

Not really.
Anyone who would suspect a man for watching Shirley Temple flicks have problems of their own.
I hate to do this, but I am going to use a video game for an example. The Last of Us has the hero traveling with a young girl throughout most of the game. In all the message boards that I have visited about the game, and the countless posts by masses of people; I never came across one post of anyone suspecting the main character of what you are implying. Not to say there isn't any out there, but most people didn't think that way.

I don't even think that I know of anyone personally who would throw that label at Indiana if Doom had a young girl instead of Shortie, and for sure none would 'suspect' a man watching Shirley Temple's Heidi.
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
I don't think the concerns about Indy running around with a 10 year old girl are warranted at all. In ToD, Indy, Willie and Shortround end up representing a (very dysfunctional) family unit anyway; it would have been the same if Shortround were a girl.

Alas, I can't imagine that would have happened back in 1984. Representation of women in Hollywood action movies wasn't too crash hot back then (though I'm sure someone could dig out some examples to contradict that claim.)
 

RKORadio

Guest
I presume the proposed 10 year old Asian Princess would have been from a fictional country (ala Ragaan in the 1990s Australian tv series Embassy)?

A kick-ass asian child Princess would have been a good subversion of the "Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow" (© Tv Tropes) trope, not to mention a contrast with "I want to go to Delhi!" Willie.
 

Dr.Jonesy

Well-known member
Phlip said:
In the Blu-ray Making Of, they changed it because it "would have been inappropriate."

Yet - they decided the Hindu stereotypes that were sure to incite racial backlash were A-Ok!
(y)
 

Henry W Jones

New member
RKORadio said:
I presume the proposed 10 year old Asian Princess would have been from a fictional country (ala Ragaan in the 1990s Australian tv series Embassy)?

A kick-ass asian child Princess would have been a good subversion of the "Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow" (© Tv Tropes) trope, not to mention a contrast with "I want to go to Delhi!" Willie.

Why are you all about sexism and racism? Every time I see your name on a thread I cringe because I know it will be more drivel about sexism or racism. Also, you don't ever push conversations forward. You either avoid questions and run or you just repeat yourself over and over. TOD would not be improved by a female character in place of Shorty. You would prefer if Indiana Jones was an Indian woman from what I can tell. Lets make all the heros Indian women and all the villians white men? Would that make it better?
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
RKO is not here is to add anything to the enjoyment of the world of IJ. Her use of language is admirable: "...a good subversion of the "Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow" (c TV Tropes) trope, not to mention a contrast...." In fact, it seems extraordinary for a fourteen year old, not to mention her references to TV shows aired before she was born. She certainly has been reading a lot, sharpening up those literary critiquing skills, and catching up on previous decade's viewing.
 
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