Big Bang Theory - "The Raiders Minimization", episode 139

Henry W Jones

Henry W Jones

New member
Marion's involvement is only because Indy arrived. She would probably had been less of a smart ass if she didn't think she had another buyer of the medallion. Toht said he would pay more than Jones until she blew smoke in his face and started talking smack. We don't know if he would have used the poker otherwise. Secondly, she would not have the been on the adventure if she wasn't tagging along with Indy, hence, no Indy = no saving needed.
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
A possible scenario, with or without Indy, that involves the Ark arriving in Berlin, might have ended up with Hitler choosing to do with it the same as the US Government: put it somewhere safe (assuming that Belloq had already proved its lethality).

The Ark is an indiscriminate weapon of mass destruction. It will kill anyone who sees the ghosts. So it’s not much use unless it could be handled by a specially trained group of blind operators, and protected by people with blindfolds.

The enemy would then train their own blind commandos to combat the Ark and the whole thing would be a right old mess!

For the Americans it was obviously safer to drop two atom bombs on Japan than strap the Ark to the belly of the Enola Gay and use the pilots as ghost-fodder, losing the Ark in the process.

It’s also a potential doomsday device, since who could be sure the ghosts would always return to their box after a killing spree?

In 1945, Hitler would very probably have ordered the Ark to be opened in Berlin, thus killing everyone he deemed no longer worthy of living as part of his scorched earth decision, which Speer would have refused to carry out.

In 1949 the Ark would have been banned by the Geneva Convention, solving all of the above issues!
 
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Spurlock

New member
Montana Smith said:
In 1949 the Ark would have been banned by the Geneva Convention, solving all of the above issues!
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Well that's assuming that the Ark had no affect on the war. If the nazis had used the Ark as described, possibly for concentration camps or war, there may never have been a Geneva Convention. Now this killing device would run rampant, killing all who opposed the Furher.

So Indiana getting it into the hands of the US could've helped the war.

But now for some what if... What when we got the Ark, we used it as a weapon and denied nuclear research and became the sole holder of a weapon like this. The Ark could have changed history.
 
kongisking

kongisking

Active member
Spurlock said:
Well that's assuming that the Ark had no affect on the war. If the nazis had used the Ark as described, possibly for concentration camps or war, there may never have been a Geneva Convention. Now this killing device would run rampant, killing all who opposed the Furher.

So Indiana getting it into the hands of the US could've helped the war.

But now for some what if... What when we got the Ark, we used it as a weapon and denied nuclear research and became the sole holder of a weapon like this. The Ark could have changed history.
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I'm fairly certain the US gov had the Ark locked away because of Indy's description of how it slaughtered the Nazis on the island, and realized it would be too dangerous to use as a weapon, since the Ark kills indiscriminately whoever looks inside it. So they actually weren't being selfish jerks by putting it in storage: they were smart enough to realize it should never, ever, ever be messed with. Heck, they probably also got a healthy speech from Sallah about the Ark's dangers, which unlike Indy, they took to heart since the Ark had killed the morons that desecrated it.

As a weapon, the Ark is ridiculously impractical and unpredictable. Would any of you feel comfortable using a nuclear bomb with something of a sentient mind and some serious privacy standards?
 
Pale Horse

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
We'll...concerning how to best use the Ark (In the Indy timeline)...it wouldn't take too much to determine who was a geneological Levite who could open the Ark on Yom Kippur...
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Pale Horse said:
We'll...concerning how to best use the Ark (In the Indy timeline)...it wouldn't take too much to determine who was a geneological Levite who could open the Ark on Yom Kippur...
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That's assuming the Ark obeys the laws written down. On the other hand, if it were an inter-dimensional's idea of fun, and literally "not of this earth", then Sallah's advice might be:

"Arks...very dangerous. You go first."
 
Pale Horse

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Montana Smith said:
That's assuming the Ark obeys the laws written down. On the other hand, if it were an inter-dimensional's idea of fun, and literally "not of this earth", then Sallah's advice might be:

"Arks...very dangerous. You go first."
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Yes, much presupposition is required at this point. One might even call it faith. After all, much of Exodus and Leviticus detail the rules of the Ark. Why would anyone pen a set of rules to follow, and then not adhere to them?
 
M

Montana Smith

Active member
Pale Horse said:
Yes, much presupposition is required at this point. One might even call it faith. After all, much of Exodus and Leviticus detail the rules of the Ark. Why would anyone pen a set of rules to follow, and then not adhere to them?
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Did 'vengeful ghosts' make it into that instruction manual?

Maybe they appear in this later edition?

mzi.wosakjdl.225x225-75.jpg




The Ark of the Covenant Operations Manual

by Christopher Jordan

This book is available for download on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch with iBooks and on your computer with iTunes. Books must be read on an iOS device.

Description

How to build an Ark and perform the miraculous feats of the Old Testament.
Click to expand...

https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/ark-covenant-operations-manual/id498272867?mt=11

Funny, there's no health and safety warning on that page. :confused:


"Unknown downloads...very dangerous. You go first."
 
Forbidden Eye

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
Another thing nobody has pointed out yet...if Indy wasn't around, wouldn't Belloq have know to close his eyes when opening the Ark? After all, Indy only knew to do so because he had the whole headpiece translated, including the warning not to disturb the Ark.

So without Indy, Belloq would've gotten the whole headpiece, learned of the warning, thus would essentially dominated the world.
 
Attila the Professor

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Forbidden Eye said:
Another thing nobody has pointed out yet...if Indy wasn't around, wouldn't Belloq have know to close his eyes when opening the Ark? After all, Indy only knew to do so because he had the whole headpiece translated, including the warning not to disturb the Ark.

So without Indy, Belloq would've gotten the whole headpiece, learned of the warning, thus would essentially dominated the world.
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I don't think Indy knew not to look at the Ark because of the inscription; taking it out of the Well of Souls, as he did, reads as much as disturbing the Ark as opening it does. There was supposed to be dialogue there for the Imam with both the "don't look" and "don't touch" warnings, but they were cut, perhaps in the interests of having more mystery about the whole thing. I don't think that those warnings were derived from anything more than the Imam's expertise.

In any event, I think there are two points at which Indy's influence might be important. One is in the Nazis finding their way to Marion and the headpiece, which perhaps they wouldn't have managed so easily without his leading them straight to The Raven. The Nazis knew to look for Abner, but they may not have known where to look for him.

The second has already been brought up; Montana's right to note that Belloq had the staff and breastplate with him, and he also made his fervent "when I'm finished with it" speech to Indy. The Frenchman clearly had designs on trying out the Ark for himself. Would he have had such a strong opportunity had they not stopped at the island? Perhaps Indy's presence was a factor in them planning on flying the Ark directly to Berlin; even though he and Marion were sealed in the Well of Souls, he might have had them on their toes enough to skip the step of a bit of tabernacle testing. I think it's probable that the secret Nazi base on the island wasn't intended as a way station until they were forced to pursue the Ark on the open seas. I wouldn't predict that the location of the Ark's opening would make any real difference in the ultimate outcome, so long as it were before it arrived in Berlin to be received by the High Command.

Add me as another vote for The Big Bang Theory being less than stellar, though it does seem one of today's most well-constructed instances of the three-camera sitcom, a form with plenty of steam left in it. It's also done well in adding more women to its canvas over time. I think it's partly just hard not to tar it with the same brush as Chuck Lorre's other sitcom, Two and a Half Men.
 
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Exulted Unicron

Exulted Unicron

New member
Depends on how badly or loosely translated belloq's translation of the headpiece was on his fake one, made from Toht's burn.

The British Army in Egypt would have treated an entire German army and aircraft in it's protectorate as an act of war and would have actually put WW2 right in 1936.

If Indy wasn't there, then it's likely Toht would have gotten the headpiece either way, but even then, even if he'd gotten the staff and translations right, depends on if he'd have paid attention to the well of map room inscriptions and found the right place to put the Staff to give him the correct location. Given the commands from Dietrich and the others, Hitler wanted an opening in Berlin and the island was a test run.
 
kongisking

kongisking

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
I don't think Indy knew not to look at the Ark because of the inscription; taking it out of the Well of Souls, as he did, reads as much as disturbing the Ark as opening it does. There was supposed to be dialogue there for the Imam with both the "don't look" and "don't touch" warnings, but they were cut, perhaps in the interests of having more mystery about the whole thing. I don't think that those warnings were derived from anything more than the Imam's expertise.

In any event, I think there are two points at which Indy's influence might be important. One is in the Nazis finding their way to Marion and the headpiece, which perhaps they wouldn't have managed so easily without his leading them straight to The Raven. The Nazis knew to look for Abner, but they may not have known where to look for him.

The second has already been brought up; Montana's right to note that Belloq had the staff and breastplate with him, and he also made his fervent "when I'm finished with it" speech to Indy. The Frenchman clearly had designs on trying out the Ark for himself. Would he have had such a strong opportunity had they not stopped at the island? Perhaps Indy's presence was a factor in them planning on flying the Ark directly to Berlin; even though he and Marion were sealed in the Well of Souls, he might have had them on their toes enough to skip the step of a bit of tabernacle testing. I think it's probable that the secret Nazi base on the island wasn't intended as a way station until they were forced to pursue the Ark on the open seas. I wouldn't predict that the location of the Ark's opening would make any real difference in the ultimate outcome, so long as it were before it arrived in Berlin to be received by the High Command.
Click to expand...

Damnation, I didn't think of that. Oh well. Raiders isn't an epic tragedy anymore, but back to just being a phenomenal bit of escapism. Darn! :rolleyes:
 
Lance Quazar

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
So basically there are three most likely scenarios without Indy -

1) The movie happens more or less as it did, with Belloq opening the Ark on the island and all the Nazis dying.

2) The Nazis never find Marion and the Headpiece without Indy leading them there, so their project never gets beyond the planning stages.

3) The Ark is flown to Berlin, Hitler and the Nazi High Command are all incinerated, stopping WW2 in its tracks.



Basically, there is NO scenario where Indy's presence is helpful. A couple where it makes no difference one way or the other.

And one possibility where his involvement makes this catastrophically WORSE for the world as a whole.


I think the general point still stands.
 
S

Spurlock

New member
or 4) Belloq is killed by the Ark. Understanding the ark's power, the ark is studied and turned into a weapon of mass destruction. Nazi Germany? You mean Nazi Earth.
 
Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
Now Playing

I just happened to have the UK channel, E4, playing in background just now and heard the "Raiders" theme playing. Turns out it's "The Big Bang Theory" show. The episode description is:

"The gang are excited about a new version of Raiders of the Lost Ark that features 21 seconds of extra footage."

It just started. I've never watched the show but I'll check this one out.
 
G

Golddragon71

Member
There was one point i thought of in all this I'm not sure anyone else considered it.

Belloq insisted on opening the Ark with a full ceremony and all requisite incantations.

A JEWISH Ceremony I hasten to add

Suppose however that (Assuming Indy didn't get involved) The ark was taken directly to Berlin.

There's no way Hitler would've stood for Jewish ritual. He would have had an assembly made some wild speech had his men open the Artk and then would have had egg all over his face for having nothing happen.

Why?

Because the Ark is a Mystical Talisman of Great (even Divine) power as such it is one that requires the requisite ceremony to unleash said power. without the proper incantations asking God to "turn on the switch" as it were, the Ark would just be a Gold box with a lot of dust inside it.
 
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LZeitgeist

Member
I'm of the school of thought that with Abner already dead, the Nazis wouldn't have known where Marion was in Nepal, and they might not have even known she had the headpiece. Heck, Indy didn't even know she had the headpiece - he just went to her because he thought Abner had it or at least knew where it was but he didn't know where Abner might be.

Indy unwittingly led the Nazis right to Marion, and therefore, even more unwittingly, directly to the headpiece. Without the headpiece, neither Belloq nor the Nazis would know where to dig for the Ark.
 
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