Jesus' (yes that one) tomb found?

San Holo

Active member
ClintonHammond said:
Let's see anything that proves his existence....
Besides the Bible, hmmm lets see-Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, countless others...more historical documentation of Jesus as a person than of Julius Caesar(this was mentioned earlier;)) Pretty solid evidence for proving that a man named Jesus preached in 1st century Galilee. What did you say about "some people are so firmly entrenched in their own blindness that they wouldn't see if you gave them eyes"? :rolleyes:
 
"Besides the Bible"
One cannot use mythology.... If you could, -I- could say that the dome of the sky was held up by 4 dwarves... It is not.

"Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, countless others..."
So, put up your sources... lets see quotes and page numbers and all that.... Cause you saying they said there was a Jesus wouldn't stand up in even the most kangaroo of courts....

My eyes are open... You haven't put anything in front of them yet.
 

Johan

Active member
ClintonHammond said:
Ya... some people will believe anything...

Like the world only being thousands of years old...
Or that the world was once covered in water....
Or that the human race descended from 2 people....

Or that some guy, once hung on a cross, came back from the -dead-...

Yer right


Some people will believe anything....

*sheesh*


"One of the caskets even bears the title, "Judah, son of Jesus,""
Has already been refuted as a 'modern' fake.... akin to the so-called Shroud Of Turin....

There was no "Jesus" as the "Bible" tells... it's MYTHOLOGY... and what does Indy say? "We cannot afford to take mythology at face value."

Disagree?? Show me ONE iota of REAL proof...

Here's a picture of me, NOT holding my breath....

Now why in the world would I even bother to have this discussion with you. We both know it will go absolutley no where. Rather than you insulting my faith and me insulting your intelligence...let's just leave it at that.

Thats exactly right InyJohan. It is interesting (along with the DaVinci code) that so many things are popping up to challenge ones faith and bring doubt in ones mind. Satan knows he does not have much time left so he is working double time. With these events one wonders if we are really in the end times
and "Indyt" we both know the day's in which we are living. Just like scripture say's that people will "prop" up doctrines and theologies to satify their itching ears rather than continue in what is "sound doctrine". Also where it say's knowledge will rapidly increase, wars and rumours of wars, pollution will increase because of increased sin in the land, and the signifigance of what is happening in Israel itself will make your head turn. Could go on. But we don't need convincing.
 
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San Holo

Active member
ClintonHammond said:
"Besides the Bible"
One cannot use mythology.... If you could, -I- could say that the dome of the sky was held up by 4 dwarves... It is not.

"Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, countless others..."
So, put up your sources... lets see quotes and page numbers and all that.... Cause you saying they said there was a Jesus wouldn't stand up in even the most kangaroo of courts....

My eyes are open... You haven't put anything in front of them yet.
Ever hear of a "search engine"?-how about you try typing in Jesus and Josephus/Tacitus/or Pliny and see what happens. I would normally cite ya some sources,but frankly, dear Clinty, you aren't worth the time and effort. And what the hell is a kangaroo court?
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Baron Brunwald said:
Who is Jesus?:confused:
The guy who comes over your southern border without proper papers and can then be found as a fruit vendor in San Diego...
 
"why in the world would I even bother"
Nobody asked you did they.... Your personal failings are none of my concern.


"how about you try typing in"
I'm not the one making the outrageous claim... and an outrageous claim requires outrageous proof.

You claim to have that proof, so cite it... Otherwise your cowardice says more, and says it louder and clearer than any of your arguments have so far...

Instead you resort to childish name-calling. Not that I expected anything better from you. It's too bad 'faith' and 'religion' are so poorly represented on this forum.... We could use more people like Doc Savage.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Finn said:
The guy who comes over your southern border without proper papers and can then be found as a fruit vendor in San Diego...


Don't encourage them, my good friend....the crossers or the posters. lol :p
 

Doc Savage

New member
ClintonHammond said:
We could use more people like Doc Savage.
In all sincerity, thank you. A thinking man's compliment is a compliment indeed. And not to leave said compliment without corresponding action...
Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 93 A.D.
"About this time came Jesus, a wise man, if indeed it is appropriate to call him a man. For he was a performer of paradoxical feats, a teacher of people who accept the unusual with pleasure, and he won over many of the Jews and also many Greeks. He was the Christ. When Pilate, upon the accusation of the first men amongst us, condemned him to be crucified, those who had formerly loved him did not cease [to follow him], for he appeared to them on the third day, living again, as the divine prophets foretold, along with a myriad of other marvellous things concerning him. And the tribe of the Christians, so named after him, has not disappeared to this day."

Tacitus, Annals, 116 A.D.
"Nero fastened the guilt [of starting the blaze] and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius [14-37] at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."


Pliny the Younger in a letter to Trajan, 112 A.D.

"Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ — none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do *— these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ."

All emphasis added by yours truly. The rest speaks, historically, for itself. Jesus the man did exist. Jesus the Son of Man lives forever, established faith picking up where established fact leaves off.
Pale Horse said:
The Shroud is fake? Or the claim it is the burial cloth of a man who was crucified?
The Shroud has always fascinated me. If it's a forgery, the artist knew considerably the effects of crucifixion on a body. As to a Man being crucified, can 1 billion Christians be wrong? ;)

*those would be "True Scotsmen," CH :p
 
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indyt

Active member
CH, out of all the discussions you and I have had as well as with the other members of this forum on the Bible there has been plenty of evidence presented to you that the Bible is accurate, inerrant and reliable. You even have securlar sources that prove this. All I ask is you have an open mind and at least entertain all of the evidence and maybe go on some faith. If you put forth the effort, I know God will reveal Himself to you. I am writing this not to cause conflict but to sincerely reach you.(y)
 
"plenty of evidence presented to you that the Bible is accurate, inerrant and reliable"

Sorry, the "bible" is none of those things...

Nice post Doc... I'll address it when I have more time!

"can 1 billion Christians be wrong?"
Sure they can....
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
indyt said:
CH, out of all the discussions you and I have had as well as with the other members of this forum on the Bible there has been plenty of evidence presented to you that the Bible is accurate, inerrant and reliable.
I'm no Clinton, but I think he's done his own part to present evidence of the opposite, with very little regard from believers. Not exactly the best position to start recommending "broader" view of the world.

***

Anyway, to wrap it all into one nice chapter, there's no such thing as the universal truth to go with in a subject as aged and mysterious as this. Or, there is, but it's likely to stay veiled 'til to end of all mankind. Kind of silly to think it's all in the Good Book.

Therefore, you've probably heard this song before, but I think faith should be something to hold close to heart and dear, something personal, known to the carrier only. It's no religion that should scorched out of this world, but organized religion. Would there be no better way to get actual proof of the ultimate powers if every man was up to finding it himself instead of being conviced so often by sheer amount of numbers? Like our fair Doc here put it, one billion Christians is a hefty group to disagree with.

James Cameron's not telling us the truth either. He's telling his truth. Like we all are, when asked, not spreading the truth, but our truth. Yet, none of these are actually arguable. So much information to seed out and so little time. If only there was a way for us to be more than just the sums of our surroundings... then perhaps all the pieces that seem unfitting to the puzzle wouldn't be tossed away so lightheartedly, but used to see that what we consider the complete picture is more likely just a piece of one bigger puzzle... and the piece that doesn't seem to fit has its place after all.

Is this my truth then? Certainly not. But what is, I'm not going to tell because it's mine and only mine.
 

Doc Savage

New member
Finn said:
...there's no such thing as the universal truth to go with in a subject as aged and mysterious as this. Or, there is, but it's likely to stay veiled 'til to end of all mankind. Kind of silly to think it's all in the Good Book.
Silly is as silly does. Or as the Master put it, "wisdom is justified of her children."
Finn said:
...I think faith should be something to hold close to heart and dear, something personal, known to the carrier only.
Those of us who believe have been given a commission to "go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to every nation." To hide our faith, by the strictest definition, is to deny it. If I believe the Bible historically, scientifically, and philosophically, and yet don't obey its mandates, I'm the worst sort of hypocrite. Some people need a Damascus road (as I did) and some will need a critical evaluation of fact. Either way, as Paul said, I endeavor to become "all things to all people."
Finn said:
It's not religion that should scorched out of this world, but organized religion. Would there be no better way to get actual proof of the ultimate powers if every man was up to finding it himself instead of being conviced so often by sheer amount of numbers?
That's the only way to acquire the proof. I was raised in the church...and bolted at the first opportunity. I had to individually encounter Truth after years of trying everything else. The church, as a whole, has done a terrible job of introducing people to Christ. Another thing I endeavor to do my part to change.

But I digress...;)
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Doc Savage said:
Those of us who believe have been given a commission to "go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to every nation." To hide our faith, by the strictest definition, is to deny it.
Now, that sounds a little too convenient, doesn't it?

Doc Savage said:
That's the only way to acquire the proof.
Yet, there are people who never question. Sorry are those who grow up into doctrine instead of finding it themselves.
 

Doc Savage

New member
Finn said:
Now, that sounds a little too convenient, doesn't it?
Believe me, Finn, convenience has nothing to do with it.
Finn said:
Yet, there are people who never question. Sorry are those who grow up into doctrine instead of finding it themselves.
Amen and amen. Faith that isn't personal is no faith at all.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Doc Savage said:
Amen and amen. Faith that isn't personal is no faith at all.
That is what I meant when I said I feel sorry because many of us are simply sums of our surroundings. Especially our children are eager to believe whatever their elders tell them as truth... and many of them get so accustomed to it that they disregard "contradicting evidence" by habit, not by conclusion. And those who come to think otherwise nevertheless... the amount of bridges that have been burnt is unimaginable.

If not spreading the word is out of the question, perhaps we should at least look little into to whom, and when. Respect those, who preach to the ones looking for their path, abhor those who do it to the ones who know of nothing else.
 

Doc Savage

New member
Finn said:
If not spreading the word is out of the question, perhaps we should at least look little into to whom, and when. Respect those, who preach to the ones looking for their path, abhor those who do it to the ones who know of nothing else.
This statement reminds me of when Jesus said that Christians are the light of the world. Those who want said light are drawn to it while others flee. Jesus didn't go around looking for an audience...He merely was what He was and people reacted to that. Without soliciting, He developed a following. He spoke in the synagogues where people gathered to learn. From there people either clung to Him or confronted and conspired. When Christians can prompt the world to ask concerning the "hope that is in them" we will have acheived what the Master walked in daily.
 
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