Spielberg and Lucas on filmgoing implosion

Joe Brody

Well-known member
Moedred said:
My concern isn't so much about quality as people's habits.

You are spot on there.

In the 90's I lived in Upper West Side of Manhattan within easy walking distance of at least 24 movie screens. Back then it wasn't like today with the majority of the screens showing the same 4 or 5 films at different times. Back then there were more mid-budget pictures and (slightly) more offerings than today. On any given weekend, my wife and I could pretty much be assured not just that there would be something new to see but that we would have to choose among the new releases.

Fast forward to 2017 and I live within easy driving distance of well over twenty four screens. There are fewer offerings to make us want to go to the theatre. What's also changed is the films are being streamed on a faster and faster cycle and I have a respectable home entertainment set up -- which means that if there is a picture I'm on the bubble about seeing, it is no loss to let it pass.

So back in the 90's, I would see films like The Founder or Manchester By The Sea in a theatre -- but now, there's no reason. My home viewing experience is good enough. I don't need a theatre. Today it is only event films like Dunkirk or a Marvel Flic or films where I like a little rowdy audience attitude/interaction that require a theatre.

So by going to fewer films in the theatre I know I'm contributing to the cycle -- of studios doubling down on fewer big bets. They have to chase their ROI after all. That doesn't scare me -- I think the big budget only model will mature and hold for some time (especially when I see Warner Bros. finally start to master the super hero flick with a film like Wonder Woman). Will the movie theatre chains go through another round of closures and bankruptcies? Yes (though fortunately, most/many screens in the U.S. are now foreign owned. Suckers!!!). Will small films still get made? Yes. Will the middle disappear? Maybe -- but a lot of that mid-range content will just end up being made by Netflix or some other streaming service, which is where I would have ended up watching it anyway. Long story short, a new equilibrium will be established without a major collapse.

Le Saboteur said:
The Chinese build better sets on average, but have quite the ways to go with CGI. Once they get the handle on that and build upon their action movie foundations then Hollywood is going to face an ever harder slog.

I don't fear the Chinese because creatively they have constraints and guardrails that don't exist in the U.S. Spielberg (or Lucas?) like to sound all wise likening Super Hero Flics to Westerns. Westerns ruled for something like 70 years and super hero flicks have been pulling in the big dollars for something like 30 so far? I'm sure the super hero day will exhaust itself well short of 70 years but what I've found so impressive is the genre's ability to adapt itself. Look at Batman in the past thirty years -- from Burton's zaniness to Nolan's deft noir to Affleck's devolution. There is a range there that will continue. A property like Batman will wax and wane but it won't go away. I don't see that level of creative range coming out of China to compete with U.S. story tellers in our lifetimes.

Pale Horse said:
Have you got around to Atomic Blonde yet?

Sadly no. My wife nixed it based on the reviews that were off to mixed but all stressed the physicality which my wife didn't want to see. Oh well, I'll catch on iTunes this Fall.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Joe Brody said:
Sadly no. My wife nixed it based on the reviews that were off to mixed but all stressed the physicality which my wife didn't want to see. Oh well, I'll catch on iTunes this Fall.

It's an outstanding smart film with a great soundtrack and some of the best fight choreography I've seen in ages...
 

roundshort

Active member
Joe Brody said:
You are spot on there.


So back in the 90's, I would see films like The Founder or Manchester By The Sea in a theatre -- but now, there's no reason. My home viewing experience is good enough. I don't need a theatre. Today it is only event films like Dunkirk or a Marvel Flic or films where I like a little rowdy audience attitude/interaction that require a theatre.

.

I go to the theaters like Jb said it it makes sense. A movie theater is the ONLY time I ever have a coke, so that is a treat. There has not been 1 movie this summer that has made me go and see a film. I probably wont go until the new Blade Runner. Luckily my town has one of the oldest theaters in the US (which has start of the art sound and projection, thank you George Lucas) http://www.cameocinema.com/history.html

I am friends with the owner and I can usually talk her into putting on Caddy shack or other classics.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Joe Brody said:
What's also changed is the films are being streamed on a faster and faster cycle
In the 90s running the college 35mm second run theater, scheduling became increasingly difficult because the home video window was shrinking from about 6 to 4 months. Now with small children, when babysitting doesn't work out, we try to wait about a month for a low per screen average to disturb as few theatergoers as possible if any, at a slow time of the week. A later week also gives the theater a bigger slice of the ticket price, and the movie studio less. They'll tell you, they love a film with legs (Wonder Woman pun intended).

What's inevitable is with 100 years of film, cleaned up and accessible, it's harder to convince people the current output is where it's at. As Spielberg says, there are still only 24 hours in the day.
roundshort said:
Luckily my town has one of the oldest theaters in the US
I should stop next time on the way to Castello di Amorosa, a friend proposed there in full armor. (Not to usurp the wine thread.)
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
https://www.moviepass.com
MoviePass is down to $89 a year. A movie a month makes it worthwhile. I'm increasingly suspicious some billionaire financier is willing to lose tens of millions to help preserve the filmgoing experience a little longer.
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
Pale Horse said:
Have you got around to Atomic Blonde yet?


Wow. What a treat. A loving homage to many things.

(hope you were unaffected by the fires in your neck of the woods)
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Joe Brody said:
Wow. What a treat. A loving homage to many things.

(hope you were unaffected by the fires in your neck of the woods)

Thank you. Safe here. Despite the devastating losses a bit West.

Glad you liked Blonde. Unfortunately underated, but I hope it grows cult legs and retains a re-watching outcome.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Pale Horse said:
devastating losses a bit West.
And all around roundshort in St. Helena. Okay there?

We used to sped Christmas in Santa Rosa in my grandparents' house which dodged a very similar fire in 1964. It still stands on the ashes of another.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Hopefully you're enjoying MoviePass while it lasts, which is burning through $20 million a month. Probably the 4/20 Super Troopers opening day double feature will be remembered as a pinnacle of slackerdom.

James Cameron has a different approach than predicting doom for superhero movies:
“I’m hoping we’re going to start getting Avenger fatigue. Not that I don’t love the movies. It’s just, Come on, guys, there are other stories to tell besides, you know, hypogonadal males without families doing death-defying things for two hours and wrecking cities in the process.”
His Story of Science Fiction series featuring Lucas, Spielberg and more premieres April 30.
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
Loved Super Troopers and regret not seeing the sequel over the weekend. I love that the sequel was crowd-sourced in part. The Super Trooper's 2 crowd funding phenomenon and the film's box office success is just another indicator that film is not dead yet -- and I'm sure Super Trooper 2's success (along with A Quiet Place) is going to cost Ready Player One even more screens this upcoming weekend as Avengers takes over just about everything else. As it stands now, I bet Ready Player one doesn't even make $140M domestic.

As for super hero films, I'm sure the fatigue will come. Hell, I'm the first to admit that I thought the super hero genre was over when Ben Affleck did Daredevil back in 2003.

Bottom line is that what the Russo's and Feige and Disney/Marvel has done with Infinity Wars is unparalleled: it is not just the product of what? 18 films over ten years but essentially a direct sequel of 6 or 7 films made mostly by other people with a huge cast. This scale and narrative depth has been a drug for viewers who, for now, are pretty much addicted. It's the movie going equivalent of Game of Thrones -- and no one, not Cameron, not Speilberg can hold a candle to it. Fortunately, the guys at the top at Disney/Marvel know it has to end and I trust them to do a good job.

What I think irks guys like Cameron is that Disney and Marvel are completely dominating (i) scheduling, (ii) the young male audience and (iii) family movie night decisions. The scheduling squeeze Ready Player One just went through is something these big names like Spielberg and Cameron never had to contend with in their careers. Even Star Wars and Last Jedi burned theatre owners and Marvel is the only thing that reliably fills the seats. Spielberg couldn't deliver with Ready Player One, and, for as big as it was in its day, Avatar has become laughingly irrelevant. I love Cameron's films but for the life of me, I have zero desire to go back and revisit the Avatar world, so it will be interesting to see what he does with it -- and I'm sure it will have its share of death-defying acts and carnage -- so he shouldn't be too critical of the super hero films.
 
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JasonMa

Active member
Joe Brody said:
Fortunately, the guys at the top at Disney/Marvel know it has to end and I trust them to do a good job.
You trust the heads of Disney and Marvel not to overdo a good thing and run it into the ground? Have we been living in the same world the last ~20 years? Because from my POV that's exactly what both Disney's and Marvel's business plans have been the last two decades.
 

Pale Horse

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JasonMa said:
You trust the heads of Disney and Marvel not to overdo a good thing and run it into the ground? Have we been living in the same world the last ~20 years? Because from my POV that's exactly what both Disney's and Marvel's business plans have been the last two decades.

Exponential growth, funded by the <strike>will</strike> money of their clientele isn't necessarily running it into the ground. However excessive or over saturated, it's still being consumed massively. Unlike say, the 50 Shades Trilogy...don't get any ideas, Russo Brothers.
 

Joe Brody

Well-known member
JasonMa, you should have waited a few hours to post because the first reviews are out for Infinity Wars and the twitterverse reaction is pretty enthusiastic.

I don't disagree with your broader claim (Disney runs things into the ground -- see live action princess movies and Frozen shorts and sequels) but read the New York Times article; the Russo's know what they are doing.
 

JasonMa

Active member
The Russos may but I don't believe when push comes to shove that they'll have the final say. They may walk away but Disney will find somebody else to carry the torch until its far past played out.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Terry Gilliam joins the legion of doom:
"I hate superheroes. It's bull****. Come on, grow up! We're not going to be teenagers for the rest of our lives. It's great to dream of great powers. Superheroes are all about power. That's what I don't like about superheroes. They've gotta beat the other powerful superheroes. Come on, a bit of peace, love, and understanding is what we need."
 

Grizzlor

Well-known member
The danger is that the theatrical industry has morphed into a $20 a movie ticket that ONLY works with CGI induced 3D blockbusters. They've moved the industry into a place where good films no longer get promoted or wide releases. So when people sour on super heroes, there's nothing to move to.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Spielberg upon receiving a Cinema Audio Society award in 2019:
“I hope all of us really continue to believe that the greatest contributions we can make as filmmakers is to give audiences the motion picture theatrical experience. I’m a firm believer that theatres need to be around forever. I love television. I love the opportunity. Some of the greatest writing being done today is for television, some of the best directing for television, some of the best performances [are] on television today. The sound is better in homes more than it ever has been in history but there’s nothing like going to a big dark theatre with people you’ve never met before and having the experience wash over you. That’s something we all truly believe in.”
 
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